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post #3781 of 3965 Old 01-19-2015, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixfury View Post
I just turned on my bedroom tv and both 25 and 69 are not broadcasting bit 57 seems fine. That's weird.

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Thanks, this makes more sense. I have the same results, maybe the standby antenna for 25 does not work very good LOL. I'm glad hvs10trk keeps us up to date though. It's not like any other engineer even posts here.
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post #3782 of 3965 Old 01-19-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Timroberts View Post
Thanks, this makes more sense. I have the same results, maybe the standby antenna for 25 does not work very good LOL. I'm glad hvs10trk keeps us up to date though. It's not like any other engineer even posts here.
I was about to post they are back up. I took a shower in between and found 69 still not broadcasting. Went back to 25 it was broadcasting, back to 69 and it was also broadcasting. I must had checked the very moment they went back online.
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post #3783 of 3965 Old 01-19-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Phoenixfury View Post
I was about to post they are back up. I took a shower in between and found 69 still not broadcasting. Went back to 25 it was broadcasting, back to 69 and it was also broadcasting. I must had checked the very moment they went back online.
Yep 25 is back and strong again.


Thanks Phoenixfury and hvs10trk!
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post #3784 of 3965 Old 01-19-2015, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Timroberts View Post
Yep 25 is back and strong again.


Thanks Phoenixfury and hvs10trk!
I just checked the signal strength on my Sharp again. Seeing 78 for signal strength. Still looks fantastic!
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post #3785 of 3965 Old 01-21-2015, 05:34 PM
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Btw hvs, can you explain what's going on with cw25? It appears like either the fields have been swapped, or its only running at 1920x540 rather than full 1080i

Its been like this for probably a couple months now.

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post #3786 of 3965 Old 01-31-2015, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Btw hvs, can you explain what's going on with cw25? It appears like either the fields have been swapped, or its only running at 1920x540 rather than full 1080i

Its been like this for probably a couple months now.
There's nothing going on with WCWW. We're outputing an ATSC standard 1080i signal. It wouldn't surprise me thought in this digital technology has a sense of humor world that there's something embedded in the signal that's ticking off your gear. For example, there was a software update to our PSIP gear about 4 years ago that killed all APEX STB's trying to watch us. They'd constantly reboot. That's probably the quickest downgrade I've ever done!

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post #3787 of 3965 Old 01-31-2015, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvs10trk View Post
There's nothing going on with WCWW. We're outputing an ATSC standard 1080i signal. It wouldn't surprise me thought in this digital technology has a sense of humor world that there's something embedded in the signal that's ticking off your gear. For example, there was a software update to our PSIP gear about 4 years ago that killed all APEX STB's trying to watch us. They'd constantly reboot. That's probably the quickest downgrade I've ever done!
Is it possible the issue is with the national CW source? This seems unlikely, but not impossible. I've only seen the same issue once before, and that was with Craig Ferguson's show, but all other shows on WSBT and all other 1080i signals look perfect.

I'll see if I can do a screencap from my uverse box. I've noticed it during Flash, Arrow, and The 100 every week for a while now.

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post #3788 of 3965 Old 01-31-2015, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Is it possible the issue is with the national CW source? This seems unlikely, but not impossible. I've only seen the same issue once before, and that was with Craig Ferguson's show, but all other shows on WSBT and all other 1080i signals look perfect.

I'll see if I can do a screencap from my uverse box. I've noticed it during Flash, Arrow, and The 100 every week for a while now.
I haven't noticed a problem, I watch Flash with an antenna
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post #3789 of 3965 Old 01-31-2015, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Is it possible the issue is with the national CW source? This seems unlikely, but not impossible. I've only seen the same issue once before, and that was with Craig Ferguson's show, but all other shows on WSBT and all other 1080i signals look perfect.

I'll see if I can do a screencap from my uverse box. I've noticed it during Flash, Arrow, and The 100 every week for a while now.
Anything's possible in the digital world. I've seen some crazy things. Is it just CW Network programming or does it include local syndicated stuff?

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post #3790 of 3965 Old 01-31-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hvs10trk View Post
Anything's possible in the digital world. I've seen some crazy things. Is it just CW Network programming or does it include local syndicated stuff?
Looking at it now (The Middle rerun) it doesn't appear to have the issue, although it could be because The Middle comes from a 720p source. Commercial break looks fine, but I couldn't tell if any of the commercials came from a proper native 1080i source, but upscaled content certainly seems to be displaying properly.

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post #3791 of 3965 Old 02-01-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Looking at it now (The Middle rerun) it doesn't appear to have the issue, although it could be because The Middle comes from a 720p source. Commercial break looks fine, but I couldn't tell if any of the commercials came from a proper native 1080i source, but upscaled content certainly seems to be displaying properly.
With the amount of conversion of programming these days, I'm wouldn't be surprised if something gets trapped in the metadata.

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post #3792 of 3965 Old 02-03-2015, 08:42 PM
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I took some screenshots of The Flash tonight using my capture device. Note that the images will be somewhat compressed, due to the nature of my device, but the effect I was describing is still noticeable. It's most noticeable around the edges of the CW logo, but the jaggies are also noticeable on other prominent edges. The last image for some reason isn't showing the same artifacts, and appears to be displaying all edges properly, however it does look blurry, so it may have some deinterlacing being applied by my receiver for some reason (even though it outputs in 1080i). I tested whether a field swap would fix the issue, and it did not help. Deinterlacing does help smooth the edges better, so obviously the issue is happening on alternating fields, but I'm not quite sure what the issue is.
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post #3793 of 3965 Old 07-10-2015, 09:11 AM
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Cw25

Is channel 25 having a problem? No signal last night or today, all others are OK

Never mind, I must be having a problem with my setup. 25 must be my weakest channel

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post #3794 of 3965 Old 07-14-2015, 09:39 AM
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I noticed the same thing too. 25 was coming in at 100% signal strength just before it happened and was back after about 5 minutes, made me wonder the same thing.
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post #3795 of 3965 Old 10-05-2015, 04:43 AM
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I don't know when either event occurred but I just discovered WMYS 69-3 is now showing Decades rather than Touchvision. This channel is presented in 480i 16x9 screen format just as Touchvision was. The other is after doing a channel scan I see WEID 18-1 is on the air with Daystar. This station is presented in 1080i 16x9 screen format.

By the way as I said before, it wouldn't break my heart if Decades replaced Touchvision. I was not a fan of Touchvision's news format at all. Decades is cool although I didn't care for the idea of binge watching Celebrity Bowling. LOL! I'm glad one of the other subs didn't get bumped. The only issue is Decades is still showing Touchvision's guide data. I'm hoping this is corrected soon. Thankfully the TV Guide app on my phone is showing data for Decades.
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post #3796 of 3965 Old 10-13-2015, 06:17 AM
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I noticed two more things last night. WMYS 69-3 Decades is now showing program information. However the channel is still identified as Touch not Decades. At least now it's possible to see what's on and what upcoming.

The other thing I noticed is WSJV 28-2 Heroes and Icons is now showing in 720p! I don't know how. Long it's been 720p but I do know it was 480i 16x9. This makes channel 28 the only broadcaster in our area that is broadcasting 2 HD channels on a single broadcast channel. I knew it was possible but this is the first time I've ever seen it. I did notice anything showing on 28-2 looks much clearer and a lot less jaggies are visible due to the higher resolution.

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post #3797 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 11:30 AM
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Improving reception

I am thinking of ditching Comcast so I just bought a Tivo because it can record OTA programs for playback later, a feature I'm not willing to give up. The Tivo has a signal strength "meter" show shows signal strength. It indicates that 16, 22, 28 and 34 are all decent (readings about 70-72) but 57 is weaker (around 60) though still showing as green.

I am located just west of UP Mall in a heavily wooded neighborhood. My antenna is a 25 year old inexpensive unit, mounted on my 2nd story chimney and pointed due south. It is connected by the original twin-lead that was installed when the house was built in 1970. Reception on 16, 22, 28 and 34 is generally good but 57 can be spotty. I recorded a show last week on 57 and there was almost constant pixellation and interrupted audio on playback. Oddly, two shows recorded the night before were fine.

Here are my questions: will a new, higher quality antenna improve my reception? How about RG-6 instead of twin lead? Or are all the trees between my house and the transmitters always going to make reception iffy, regardless of what I do with antenna and/or cabling? Do you think the problem with 57 is that it's low power relative to the other local stations? Thanks.
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post #3798 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 11:48 AM
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I am thinking of ditching Comcast so I just bought a Tivo because it can record OTA programs for playback later, a feature I'm not willing to give up. The Tivo has a signal strength "meter" show shows signal strength. It indicates that 16, 22, 28 and 34 are all decent (readings about 70-72) but 57 is weaker (around 60) though still showing as green.

I am located just west of UP Mall in a heavily wooded neighborhood. My antenna is a 25 year old inexpensive unit, mounted on my 2nd story chimney and pointed due south. It is connected by the original twin-lead that was installed when the house was built in 1970. Reception on 16, 22, 28 and 34 is generally good but 57 can be spotty. I recorded a show last week on 57 and there was almost constant pixellation and interrupted audio on playback. Oddly, two shows recorded the night before were fine.

Here are my questions: will a new, higher quality antenna improve my reception? How about RG-6 instead of twin lead? Or are all the trees between my house and the transmitters always going to make reception iffy, regardless of what I do with antenna and/or cabling? Do you think the problem with 57 is that it's low power relative to the other local stations? Thanks.
Check http://tvfool.com/ to fine tune your antenna. Digital TV is very directional and aiming for a happy medium will gain you better results. 25, 57, and 69 are all on the same tower. Try targeting them. A new antenna may help although I suspect your existing one will suffice. Believe it or not I got better results from my indoor Mohu leaf antenna than I ever did with my outdoor. I'd play with the outdoor first though.

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post #3799 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 12:26 PM
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Check http://tvfool.com/ to fine tune your antenna. Digital TV is very directional and aiming for a happy medium will gain you better results. 25, 57, and 69 are all on the same tower. Try targeting them.
Thanks for the quick response. I have a map from Antennaweb.org that shows those 3 at 176 deg from my location. My eyeball says the antenna is pointing 180 so I'll try rotating it ever so slightly and see what happens.
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post #3800 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 03:55 PM
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... 25, 57, and 69 are all on the same tower. Try targeting them.
I just looked at these three again with the Tivo "signal strength meter." Interestingly, no one on the Tivo boards knows how it actually may relate to signal strength. Anyway, 25 and 69 both gave readings in the low 70s (similar to 16, 22 and 28) with 25 actually spiking into the 80s. 57 never got above 55 and settled in at 52. All three of these readings do rate a green on the Tivo scale. You have to get down to about 40 before the meter turns yellow.
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post #3801 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 04:16 PM
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On my Tivo Roamio 72 seems to see what my Tivo Series 3 refers to as 100
I will have spikes up to 80+ on there but give it a few seconds and it usually settles back to 72

Usually 55-60 is still good. I have a translator station that locks around 58-60 and rarely there is a glitch
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post #3802 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 08:02 PM
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I posted about this back in February but CW25 still looks like it's half resolution vertically. It's almost like it was upscaled from a 1920x540p60 source, using an interlaced upscaler, rather than a true 1080i source. Some people may not notice it if their TV deinterlaces on every refresh (or if their TV is too small to make out full resolution), but my TV does inverse 3:2 pull down on 24fps sources, so it reconstructs the progressive image for scripted shows. So for me it looks like extreme jagged edges on diagonal lines.

I also know it's not my TV because 1080i shows from NBC, CBS, and other 1080i cable channels look perfect, and reconstruct to a perfect 1080p image.

I'm watching on AT&T Uverse, but I don't think that should matter since like I said, other channels work just fine.

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post #3803 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 10:09 PM
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Must me a Uverse thing? I see 1080i for 25 on both of my sets but I'm picking it up on broadcast. I think Uverse is doing something weird to 25. Have you tried attaching an antenna?

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post #3804 of 3965 Old 10-26-2015, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixfury View Post
Must me a Uverse thing? I see 1080i for 25 on both of my sets but I'm picking it up on broadcast. I think Uverse is doing something weird to 25. Have you tried attaching an antenna?

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Are you talking visually or just what your TV's info button reads? Because the signal is very much being processed as 1080i, but I have a feeling there's some weird scaling going on, screwing up the resolution, because it is clearly resulting in a stair-step pattern on diagonal edges, as a low resolution image would do. I can't imagine it would be U-verse as every single other 1080i channel I get visually looks just fine, and just as sharp as it should be. I don't currently have an antenna so I can't check the OTA feed though, but I'll see if I can find one lying around.

Like I said though, if your TV deinterlaces on every refresh, without any motion adaptation or 3:2 pulldown reconstruction, then you might not notice it anyway. I can actually turn on a scaler in my receiver that will activate that kind of deinterlacing, and aside from the image being more flickery due to the deinterlacer not checking for any progressive detail, it results in CW25 loking like every other 1080i channel. The problem is, that's because it's effectively reducing resolution across the board when it's deinterlacing like that. It essentially turns it into what you'd see with a 1080i TV, rather than having the improvements you can get with good adaptive deinterlacers on 1080p TVs.

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post #3805 of 3965 Old 10-27-2015, 11:45 AM
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Poor ota wndu reception

I have an outdoor antenna mounted in the attic (in the same general area as lmacmil) probably about 20 ft high. I get great reception of all 21 channels except wndu. it gets occasional pixelation but the picture is jerky on a 1080i tv. if i view it on a 720p tv the jerkyness goes away. I have notices all my stations are at 100% according to the tv and all snr are between 35-34 (i am using a preamp because i have 3 tvs). does anybody else have these problems with wndu?
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post #3806 of 3965 Old 10-27-2015, 06:12 PM
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I haven't been able to check whether the same problem still exists with OTA yet, but I took some close up pictures of the pixels on my screen, to give a clearer idea of what's going on with CW25. On the logo picture, it almost looks like one of the fields is shifted up or down, but I can't confirm that. On the actual non-logo picture, it just looks like doubled fields, so it's hard to say exactly what's going on here. Because of the strange pattern, I thought maybe there was a weird interlaced upscaling (upscaling each field individually from lower resolution) but again, I can't be sure.

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post #3807 of 3965 Old 10-28-2015, 11:36 AM
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I took 4 pictures from both of my televisions. Both are receiving CW 25 OTA. The first two are from my 60“ Sharp Aquos which is a 1080. The second to are from my 37" Vizio and it is a 720.

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post #3808 of 3965 Old 10-28-2015, 11:57 AM
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I just took two more shots on my 60“ Sharp Aquos but this time I chose The Flash on Hulu.

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post #3809 of 3965 Old 10-28-2015, 12:46 PM
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That Hulu shot looks a lot sharper. I would guess your TV may be doing simple deinterlacing on the 1080i channel, which unfortunately doesn't properly reproduce the 1080p24 image in a 1080i signal. Is there any slight flickering of edges noticeable when watching 1080i channels as opposed to 720p, or that Hulu content?

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post #3810 of 3965 Old 10-28-2015, 01:38 PM
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I hadn't really ever noticed if there is. I'll be sure to watch for it. I may do a video shot when I have time.

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