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post #17461 of 17996 Old 05-04-2019, 04:02 PM
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Does anyone have any ideas about the viability of getting San Francisco stations down in Salinas, or even further south in King City? Would a Channelmaster Masterpiece 100 at 30 feet be able to bring them in? The Salinas Valley used to receive KNTV and KGO for ABC, then just KGO, but a few years ago KSBW knocked KGO off the cable down here. KSBW's subchannel carries ABC programming, but it is not like a real station because their local news is just a simulcast of their main station. I would prefer to watch my ABC programming on KGO, as well as San Francisco local news.
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post #17462 of 17996 Old 05-04-2019, 04:42 PM
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... It's too bad that all of their regular channel listings that are linked from my lists (https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=xxxx) and easy to read aren't always complete and updated.

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It is only by discovering something by chance that I know where to look for something similar later.

I had to select all the KTVU filings and then realize that the "Digital Replacement Translator" entry was the one to look at, 15 down the list.

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post #17463 of 17996 Old 05-04-2019, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sted View Post
Does anyone have any ideas about the viability of getting San Francisco stations down in Salinas, or even further south in King City? Would a Channelmaster Masterpiece 100 at 30 feet be able to bring them in? The Salinas Valley used to receive KNTV and KGO for ABC, then just KGO, but a few years ago KSBW knocked KGO off the cable down here. KSBW's subchannel carries ABC programming, but it is not like a real station because their local news is just a simulcast of their main station. I would prefer to watch my ABC programming on KGO, as well as San Francisco local news.
You are likely blocked by the curvature of the Earth, putting a 1,000 foot tower up might make it possible.

KTVU and other stations provide live feed of some of their newscasts on the Internet.

I just checked and one of the Madison Wisconsin stations I watched during my childhood has a live newscast feed.

SHF

P.S. It was ABS that made the deal with KSBW to carry their network programs. Why would they agree to carry San Francisco news, they want more viewers for their news. That's the main $$$$$ for the stations. Thus the deal to carry ABC network programs increased their money.
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post #17464 of 17996 Old 05-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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You are likely blocked by the curvature of the Earth, putting a 1,000 foot tower up might make it possible.

KTVU and other stations provide live feed of some of their newscasts on the Internet.

I just checked and one of the Madison Wisconsin stations I watched during my childhood has a live newscast feed.

SHF

P.S. It was ABS that made the deal with KSBW to carry their network programs. Why would they agree to carry San Francisco news, they want more viewers for their news. That's the main $$$$$ for the stations. Thus the deal to carry ABC network programs increased their money.
I'm sure that they wouldn't want to carry SF news. My point is, why should they receive exclusivity for their subchannel, when it is really not a local channel? It doesn't have a separate local news team like another truly local station would. They are just simulcasting their newscast from their NBC main channel. There are many Bay Area connections to the Salinas Valley. San Francisco newspapers are available here, and San Francisco TV stations were until recently. KCBA in Salinas simulcasts KTVU's 10 O'clock News, as does a FOX station in Reno. But if KSBW were smart they would have simulcasted KGO's local news on their subchannel, but spliced in their own commercials and made some extra money.
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post #17465 of 17996 Old 05-04-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sted View Post
I'm sure that they wouldn't want to carry SF news. My point is, why should they receive exclusivity for their subchannel, when it is really not a local channel? It doesn't have a separate local news team like another truly local station would. They are just simulcasting their newscast from their NBC main channel. There are many Bay Area connections to the Salinas Valley. San Francisco newspapers are available here, and San Francisco TV stations were until recently. KCBA in Salinas simulcasts KTVU's 10 O'clock News, as does a FOX station in Reno. But if KSBW were smart they would have simulcasted KGO's local news on their subchannel, but spliced in their own commercials and made some extra money.
Stations are smart, they choose how they think they can make more money. ABC was able to make the deal because their programming was not OTA down there and KSBW's owners have ABC stations elsewhere.

We had to wait for ~ 544 days for ME.tv to be carried in the SF Bay area. The Minority owners and the Majority owners who wanted to sell the station were in a big Gun Fight at the OK Corral. How that dispute was resolved is something I want to know but likely never will. Now we have two stations with ME.tv and also have gained Weigel broadcasting's Decades programming which I am in the process of capturing 25+ "The Streets of San Francisco".

The stations get paid for the number of eyeballs that watch their programming, not the number of persons that want to watch what is not on the air.

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post #17466 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 12:20 AM
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Stations are smart, they choose how they think they can make more money. ABC was able to make the deal because their programming was not OTA down there and KSBW's owners have ABC stations elsewhere.

We had to wait for ~ 544 days for ME.tv to be carried in the SF Bay area. The Minority owners and the Majority owners who wanted to sell the station were in a big Gun Fight at the OK Corral. How that dispute was resolved is something I want to know but likely never will. Now we have two stations with ME.tv and also have gained Weigel broadcasting's Decades programming which I am in the process of capturing 25+ "The Streets of San Francisco".

The stations get paid for the number of eyeballs that watch their programming, not the number of persons that want to watch what is not on the air.

SHF
In Los Angeles, there are two ME Tv stations--KAZA and KDOC. For forty years, from 1960 until 2000, the Bay Area had two ABC affiliates--KNTV and KGO. The cable penetration in the Monterey-Salinas market was over 90 percent back then, and those viewers had their choice of KNTV or KGO for their ABC programming. KNTV was receivable OTA in Monterey-Salinas. Both KNTV and KGO were receivable OTA throughout much of the Bay Area. Cable in Monterey-Salinas back then used to carry KPIX and KRON as well, so the viewers were receiving two ABC, two NBC, and two CBS affiliates. In the 1980s and continuing until 2000, KSBW moved its transmitter north from Fremont Peak to the Santa Cruz Mountains. This made the OTA signal less receivable in Monterey-Salinas but very receivable throughout most of the Bay Area. It actually was more receivable than the KRON NBC signal throughout much of the Bay Area and was likely a factor in NBC's desire to leave KRON and affiliate with KNTV.

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post #17467 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sted View Post
Does anyone have any ideas about the viability of getting San Francisco stations down in Salinas, or even further south in King City? Would a Channelmaster Masterpiece 100 at 30 feet be able to bring them in? The Salinas Valley used to receive KNTV and KGO for ABC, then just KGO, but a few years ago KSBW knocked KGO off the cable down here. KSBW's subchannel carries ABC programming, but it is not like a real station because their local news is just a simulcast of their main station. I would prefer to watch my ABC programming on KGO, as well as San Francisco local news.
The San Francisco stations transmitting from Sutro Tower reach as far south as San Martin and get to Gilroy in places. Anything further than that is blocked by the curvature of the earth, as Stephen said. The chances of receiving them in the Salinas Valley are next to nil. High points in the Sierra are able to receive the San Francisco stations occasionally when conditions are right due to their added elevation.

In a later message you mention KSBW. We used to receive them quite well up here in San Francisco when they transmitted from Loma Prieta Mt, but we lost them when they moved south to Fremont Peak. KNTV used to also transmit from Loma Prieta, but when NBC bought them, they moved their transmitter north to Mt. San Bruno for better coverage of the Bay Area. Now the only stations transmitting from Loma are two low power stations, KQRO on channel 2, virtual 45, and KAAP on channel 11, virtual 24.

As for the reason NBC bought KNTV, when KRON was up for sale by the Chronicle two companies tried to buy it -- Young Broadcasting and NBC. When Young won, NBC then bought KNTV, made it the NBC affiliate and dropped KRON as the NBC affiliate. That's when they moved the KNTV transmitter north from Loma Prieta to Mt. San Bruno.

Larry
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post #17468 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
The San Francisco stations transmitting from Sutro Tower reach as far south as San Martin and get to Gilroy in places. Anything further than that is blocked by the curvature of the earth, as Stephen said. The chances of receiving them in the Salinas Valley are next to nil. High points in the Sierra are able to receive the San Francisco stations occasionally when conditions are right due to their added elevation.

In a later message you mention KSBW. We used to receive them quite well up here in San Francisco when they transmitted from Loma Prieta Mt, but we lost them when they moved south to Fremont Peak. KNTV used to also transmit from Loma Prieta, but when NBC bought them, they moved their transmitter north to Mt. San Bruno for better coverage of the Bay Area. Now the only stations transmitting from Loma are two low power stations, KQRO on channel 2, virtual 45, and KAAP on channel 11, virtual 24.

As for the reason NBC bought KNTV, when KRON was up for sale by the Chronicle two companies tried to buy it -- Young Broadcasting and NBC. When Young won, NBC then bought KNTV, made it the NBC affiliate and dropped KRON as the NBC affiliate. That's when they moved the KNTV transmitter north from Loma Prieta to Mt. San Bruno.

Larry
Up in Grass Valley, KNTV is the only Bay Area Network station we do not receive. We used to get it although spotty, but havent seen it for quite a while. Actually some of the Bay Area stations are more consistent that those from Walnut Grove....
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post #17469 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
The San Francisco stations transmitting from Sutro Tower reach as far south as San Martin and get to Gilroy in places. Anything further than that is blocked by the curvature of the earth, as Stephen said. The chances of receiving them in the Salinas Valley are next to nil. High points in the Sierra are able to receive the San Francisco stations occasionally when conditions are right due to their added elevation.

In a later message you mention KSBW. We used to receive them quite well up here in San Francisco when they transmitted from Loma Prieta Mt, but we lost them when they moved south to Fremont Peak. KNTV used to also transmit from Loma Prieta, but when NBC bought them, they moved their transmitter north to Mt. San Bruno for better coverage of the Bay Area. Now the only stations transmitting from Loma are two low power stations, KQRO on channel 2, virtual 45, and KAAP on channel 11, virtual 24.

As for the reason NBC bought KNTV, when KRON was up for sale by the Chronicle two companies tried to buy it -- Young Broadcasting and NBC. When Young won, NBC then bought KNTV, made it the NBC affiliate and dropped KRON as the NBC affiliate. That's when they moved the KNTV transmitter north from Loma Prieta to Mt. San Bruno.

Larry
I do recall everything you are saying. I will add that KSBW had its transmitter on Fremont Peak originally (1960s and 1970s), then decided in the early 1980s to move it to Loma Prieta and compete with the Bay Area locals. I do recall that KSBW was better received than KRON in pockets of the Bay Area. I had a friend who lived in San Francisco proper but told me that his antenna actually did not receive KRON very well but received KSBW perfectly, so living in San Francisco he watched NBC from Salinas. The move back to Fremont Peak coincided with the affiliation of NBC with KNTV.

I do know that in the analog days the San Francisco stations were receivable, although the picture was not perfect, in parts of the Monterey-Salinas area. They were receivable to some people who lived in elevated areas.

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post #17470 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sted View Post
Does anyone have any ideas about the viability of getting San Francisco stations down in Salinas, or even further south in King City? Would a Channelmaster Masterpiece 100 at 30 feet be able to bring them in? The Salinas Valley used to receive KNTV and KGO for ABC, then just KGO, but a few years ago KSBW knocked KGO off the cable down here. KSBW's subchannel carries ABC programming, but it is not like a real station because their local news is just a simulcast of their main station. I would prefer to watch my ABC programming on KGO, as well as San Francisco local news.
Highly unlikely in Salinas and no way in King City. You're more likely to get something out of the San Luis Obispo market in King City than SF. Once the repack is done, out of market reception will not be possible in most cases because of co-channel stations. You can watch KTVU Bay Area news on KCBA 35.

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post #17471 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 11:55 AM
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... You can watch KTVU Bay Area news on KCBA 35.

Chuck
KTVU is the highest rated news station in the S.F. Bay area thus getting the most money. The competition with KGO the second highest rated station is intense.

KTVU put up a translator (VC 2 RF 26, was RF 48) and KGO followed with theirs (VC 7 RF 35). Or the other way around. Having KTVU newscasts in Salinas may possibly be countered in the future by KGO, but IMHO not on KSBW. (Paid for the News Department.)

-------------------------

KTVU has the most newscasts and are paying the weather consulates the most money for their most expensive tools and weather sources. Most are for GOES 17 which has astounding products and now is designated GOES West.

https://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/i...ellite=goes-17

I normally look at Channel 13, "Clean Longwave Window" on GOES WEST, but going around the Earth is interesting and many of the other channels appear on the Weather charts but are not announced.

-------------------------

KSBW transmitter was not on Loma Prieta but near Mt Madonna. I rode near by on my motorcycle.

When NBC purchased KNTV the KSBW news anchors were panicking on the Noon newscast. I remember one saying in a shaking voice, "WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE".

SHF
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post #17472 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 01:06 PM
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Highly unlikely in Salinas and no way in King City. You're more likely to get something out of the San Luis Obispo market in King City than SF. Once the repack is done, out of market reception will not be possible in most cases because of co-channel stations. You can watch KTVU Bay Area news on KCBA 35.

Chuck
Yes in the past KSBY San Luis Obispo has been readily available OTA in King City.
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post #17473 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 01:11 PM
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KTVU is the highest rated news station in the S.F. Bay area thus getting the most money. The competition with KGO the second highest rated station is intense.

KTVU put up a translator (VC 2 RF 26, was RF 48) and KGO followed with theirs (VC 7 RF 35). Or the other way around. Having KTVU newscasts in Salinas may possibly be countered in the future by KGO, but IMHO not on KSBW. (Paid for the News Department.)

-------------------------

KTVU has the most newscasts and are paying the weather consulates the most money for their most expensive tools and weather sources. Most are for GOES 17 which has astounding products and now is designated GOES West.

https://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/i...ellite=goes-17

I normally look at Channel 13, "Clean Longwave Window" on GOES WEST, but going around the Earth is interesting and many of the other channels appear on the Weather charts but are not announced.

-------------------------

KSBW transmitter was not on Loma Prieta but near Mt Madonna. I rode near by on my motorcycle.

When NBC purchased KNTV the KSBW news anchors were panicking on the Noon newscast. I remember one saying in a shaking voice, "WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE".

SHF
Yes I would like KGO to get its newscast down to Salinas, even if only on cable.

I think the KSBW anchors were panicking because they had picked up large chunks of the Bay Area market. Many in that area were watching NBC on KSBW over KRON. That would change when KNTV became an NBC affiliate.
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post #17474 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 02:18 PM
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(OT) Another retro station--on cable

This is off-topic, but there seem to be quite a few people here who enjoy retro TV stations, so I thought you'd like to know that Comcast Bay Area is now carrying Family Entertainment Television (FETV) on channel 103. It airs Roy Rogers, Peter Gunn, The Monkees, Bob Newhart, Perry Mason, Bewitched, etc. etc.


https://fetv.tv/
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post #17475 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 02:30 PM
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Yes I would like KGO to get its newscast down to Salinas, even if only on cable.
You can watch all of KGO's newscasts online:


https://abc7news.com/watch/live/


Although not as convenient as turning on the TV and tuning to the desired channel, you could get those newscasts to your TV via the multiple methods available for that these days.
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post #17476 of 17996 Old 05-05-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sted View Post
Does anyone have any ideas about the viability of getting San Francisco stations down in Salinas, or even further south in King City? Would a Channelmaster Masterpiece 100 at 30 feet be able to bring them in? The Salinas Valley used to receive KNTV and KGO for ABC, then just KGO, but a few years ago KSBW knocked KGO off the cable down here. KSBW's subchannel carries ABC programming, but it is not like a real station because their local news is just a simulcast of their main station. I would prefer to watch my ABC programming on KGO, as well as San Francisco local news.
Yes & No

There is no way to get San Francisco tv stations in King City with an outdoor tv antenna.
I have done some tests. The valley floor is a no-go. Some parts get crumbs from the Monument Peak transmitters but thats it.

Yes you can ...
You need to set up a dish network antenna ( Or direct tv) antenna by YOURSELF. And install the converter box with working SIM card by yourself. Also include an A/B switch for local Monterey channels.
Not for beginners. You need to know how to install and properly aim the satellite dish antenna.

Next step is to activate that account with an address (such as your work address), a second home, or aunt LuLu's house that is in the San Francisco DMA.
Make sure your pay-tv account includes local channels.

Your self-installed system will include the local channels established with your account address.

Thats the only way to do it.
Satellite tv.
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post #17477 of 17996 Old 05-08-2019, 07:05 PM
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If it hasn't been mentioned, looks like 4.4 switched from Grit to Court TV. Grit sill on 66.4
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post #17478 of 17996 Old 05-08-2019, 08:18 PM
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Is 61.1 KQRM-LD just infomercial garbage? Was going to remove it from the lineup, but was uncertain based on a single time sample.

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post #17479 of 17996 Old 05-09-2019, 01:38 AM
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Is 61.1 KQRM-LD just infomercial garbage? Was going to remove it from the lineup, but was uncertain based on a single time sample.
That's all that I've seen on there since it came on the air.

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Hello all,
I'm having some reception issues, and trying to narrow down the problem. I'm using a Channel Master CM-4228HD and is chimney mounted pointed towards Sutro. I live about 10 miles south of SFO. I get upwards of 60 channels, so no complaints, but CH4 (KRON) is weak, and i'm not picking up KOFY. I am using a splitter serving two televisions, both having same results. This antenna is huge and probably way overkill for signals less than 20 miles away. Is it possible this antenna is too large and maybe i should consider a directional antenna? Could it be a multipath issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
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post #17481 of 17996 Old 05-09-2019, 06:45 PM
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Hello all,
I'm having some reception issues, and trying to narrow down the problem. I'm using a Channel Master CM-4228HD and is chimney mounted pointed towards Sutro. I live about 10 miles south of SFO. I get upwards of 60 channels, so no complaints, but CH4 (KRON) is weak, and i'm not picking up KOFY. I am using a splitter serving two televisions, both having same results. This antenna is huge and probably way overkill for signals less than 20 miles away. Is it possible this antenna is too large and maybe i should consider a directional antenna? Could it be a multipath issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I have found that a more-directional antenna like a Yagi is better for rejecting multipath. If your tuner displays both strength and signal quality this can help you make a judgement as to a multipath problem: high signal strength and low signal quality.

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post #17482 of 17996 Old 05-09-2019, 06:52 PM
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That's all that I've seen on there since it came on the air.

What a waste of bandwidth, thanks.

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post #17483 of 17996 Old 05-09-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tburton View Post
Hello all,
I'm having some reception issues, and trying to narrow down the problem. I'm using a Channel Master CM-4228HD and is chimney mounted pointed towards Sutro. I live about 10 miles south of SFO. I get upwards of 60 channels, so no complaints, but CH4 (KRON) is weak, and i'm not picking up KOFY. I am using a splitter serving two televisions, both having same results. This antenna is huge and probably way overkill for signals less than 20 miles away. Is it possible this antenna is too large and maybe i should consider a directional antenna? Could it be a multipath issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
KOFY has joined another three stations on RF 28 on Mt. San Bruno. The CM4228HD has a wide acceptance angle but KCNZ being a low power station may be a problem. I myself have serious problems receiving RF 28 as do some others.

KRON VC 4 RF 38 is a bit of puzzle, it is a full power station so multipath might be present.

As your antenna likely cannot be moved up / down / left / right / forward / back, the usual suggestion of moving your antenna to eliminate multipath cannot be given. I would guess that your tuners are not being overloaded unless other stations you wish to receive are problems.

-------------------------------

As the repack is less than a year away, changing antennas now I do not suggest as the needs after repack may be different.

KGO VC 7 RF 7 moves to VC 7 RF 12.

KRON VC 4 RF 38 moves to VC 4 RF 7.

KCNZ VC 28 RF 29 moves to RF 21 along with KOFY VC 20 RF 28 and the other two stations.

SHF
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post #17484 of 17996 Old 05-10-2019, 01:42 AM
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Tburton... Here are some things that pop into my mind, besides multipath being a possible problem, how long has your antenna been up on the chimney? Have you checked the connectors to see if water could have got into your coax? That could really mess up reception. Make sure all connectors are tight and in good shape and that your coax is okay. Has your antenna turned at all in the wind? Sometimes an inch or two is all that's needed to peak a signal. Good luck!
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post #17485 of 17996 Old 05-10-2019, 08:29 AM
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I'm having some reception issues, and trying to narrow down the problem. I'm using a Channel Master CM-4228HD and is chimney mounted pointed towards Sutro. I live about 10 miles south of SFO. I get upwards of 60 channels, so no complaints, but CH4 (KRON) is weak, and i'm not picking up KOFY. I am using a splitter serving two televisions, both having same results. This antenna is huge and probably way overkill for signals less than 20 miles away. Is it possible this antenna is too large and maybe i should consider a directional antenna? Could it be a multipath issue? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

A lot of times these problems are not the antenna. I would try removing the splitter as a test, to see how it goes with just one of the TVs. Check also the connection to the antenna itself. I solved my problems by getting rid of all splitters and using a distribution amp, not too far from the antenna.
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I’ve just updated my TV station lists with all of the recent channel changes and program changes. Several stations in the Salinas/Monterey/San Jose areas have changed to their re-pack channels, and there have been several programming changes in the past few weeks all around the area. If you haven’t done a scan recently, you might want to do one to make sure your stations are up to date.

Larry
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post #17487 of 17996 Old 05-10-2019, 06:22 PM
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I’ve just updated my TV station lists with all of the recent channel changes and program changes. Several stations in the Salinas/Monterey/San Jose areas have changed to their re-pack channels, and there have been several programming changes in the past few weeks all around the area. If you haven’t done a scan recently, you might want to do one to make sure your stations are up to date.

Larry
Thanks everyone for the comments, very helpful. All of these tips will be a good starting point. I was just thinking the antenna may be so large and being in such a densely populated area with tall apartment buildings might be causing a multipath issue. It's a 180 degree antenna so it would seem unlikely it's not pointing correct? Water in the coax, certainly possible. I did use a weatherproof boot around the connector, and the splitter is under the eave of the house. Anyone know if there is a coax tester available to test connections or do people generally just rely on the signal meter on the TV? Got my work cut out this weekend. Thanks again everyone.
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post #17488 of 17996 Old 05-11-2019, 12:19 PM
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Just to keep this thread from straying too far into "alternative facts", I'll point out that (contrary to even Channel Master's hype) the CM4228-HD is not a "180 degree" antenna in the sense of being non-directional. It has just about the same directionality as yagi, etc., designs. If you take a few minutes to digest the polar gain plot here , you'll see that its "radiation pattern" is pretty similar to the 91XG's, here. That's why the 4228 is so popular here in the S.F. multipath soup bowl.

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post #17489 of 17996 Old 05-14-2019, 05:51 PM
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A new low power station has been approved for San Francisco -- KPJC-LD, to be virtual 12, transmitting on channel 11. I suspect that this is the station that's going to be located on the Clay-Jones tall apartment building just northwest of Grace Cathedral.

Hi Larry,


It'll be transmitting from 1201 California Street.



Blessings,
Keith
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post #17490 of 17996 Old 05-15-2019, 12:12 AM
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Hi Larry,


It'll be transmitting from 1201 California Street.



Blessings,
Keith
This should work from Hayward.
But there may be some overload bleed over from RF12 to deal with. But that issue will be all locations in SF LOS to RF 12 not just me across the bay.

The priority re-pack channel to capture here is RF 5. KRCB 22-1
A major network station, hopefully full power.
The move to VHF will bring constant signal stability here on windy days. Unlike the current RF 23 here in the hills.
Hot item ....hurry up KRCB

The ideal plan was for one antenna for RF 3,4,& 5
That move would drop RF 2
Join that to the high VHF antennas. Then join again to UHF
Before cable distribution to the tvs.
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