San Francisco, CA - OTA - Page 588 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 420Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #17611 of 17813 Old 09-30-2019, 08:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
No kidding right?
To small, to bright, looks like ****.
Almost like a computer error or some malfunction.
Should be standardized to abc7 size & faintly watermarked.
Not this disaster.

Not sure anyone from that station monitors this OTA forum so you should make a phone call to the station with the issue.
I don't watch that station on a regular basis so good luck.

They were doing pledge drive fundraising as I watched.
(Ask them for a refund)... due to poor presentation...LoL
I called last week and asked to speak to someone in engineering and got sent to voicemail for not engineering, so I called membership services and said that my renewal would be cut in half from last time and that it should only go to radio.

But I am trying to get a feeling for how many others are complaining since I know that only 1 complaint is not going to make a difference. I think my annual contribution is above median, but it is still very small potatoes. But I do think that the technical reasons should be enough. (Hah!)
j.p.s is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17612 of 17813 Old 10-01-2019, 03:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
October 2019 Full Channel scan

Sorry I messed up an did not do a full scan last month. Sorry.

I will try and add my second antenna next month, it is a Terk HDTVa using a HDHR-2US tuner connected to my router using the AC power lines.

I have been thinking about adding it but there are problems like it just setting on the top of two boxes and is thus is not firmly fixed plus it gets some of the SUTRO signals.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

New report format again, comments are needed. See "10_1_2019-Differences.RTF" in the attachment for what I wish to present.

Code:
SCANNING: 653000000 (us-bcast:44)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=86 seq=100)
 !> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=49 seq=100)
    TSID: 0x0141
    PROGRAM 3: 2-1 KTVU-HD
 <! PROGRAM 4: 2-2 LATV
 !> PROGRAM 4: 2-2 KTVU-SD
    PROGRAM 5: 2-3 Movies!    
    PROGRAM 6: 2-4 Buzzr

SCANNING: 605000000 (us-bcast:36)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=96 seq=100)
 !> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=70 seq=100)
    TSID: 0x018F
    PROGRAM 3: 36-1 KICU-HD
    PROGRAM 4: 36-2 KEMS
    PROGRAM 5: 36-3 CCTV
 <! PROGRAM 6: 36-4 Heroes
 <! PROGRAM 7: 36-5 LightTV
 !> PROGRAM 6: 36-4 DECADES
 !> PROGRAM 7: 36-5 LIGHTTV

SCANNING: 563000000 (us-bcast:29)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
 !> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=54 seq=100)
    TSID: 0x017B
    PROGRAM 1: 5-1 KPIX-TV
    PROGRAM 2: 5-2 StartTV
 !> PROGRAM 3: 5-3 Dabl


SCANNING: 545000000 (us-bcast:26)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=92 snq=77 seq=100)
 !> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=85 snq=48 seq=100)
    TSID: 0x0141
    PROGRAM 3: 2-1 KTVU-HD
 <! PROGRAM 4: 2-2 LATV
 !> PROGRAM 4: 2-2 KTVU-SD
    PROGRAM 5: 2-3 Movies!    
    PROGRAM 6: 2-4 Buzzr


SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
 <! TSID: 0x0103
 <! PROGRAM 1: 22-1 KRCB-DT
 <! PROGRAM 2: 22-2 KRCB-C
 <! PROGRAM 3: 22-3 NHKWORL
 -> LOCK: none (ss=37 snq=0 seq=0)


SCANNING: 509000000 (us-bcast:20)
 <! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=97 snq=70 seq=100)
 !> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=97 snq=63 seq=100)
    TSID: 0x1FC7
    PROGRAM 3: 16-1 Hai Le
    PROGRAM 4: 16-2 Hanh Le
 <! PROGRAM 5: 16-3 VietSky
 !> PROGRAM 5: 16-3 VietSky (no data)
    PROGRAM 6: 16-4 VLife
    PROGRAM 7: 16-5 QHTV
    PROGRAM 8: 16-6 NetViet
    PROGRAM 9: 16-7 VietTop
    PROGRAM 10: 16-8 Vietpho
    PROGRAM 11: 16-9 U-ChTV
    PROGRAM 12: 16-10 Cali HS
    PROGRAM 13: 16-11 SETTV
    PROGRAM 14: 16-12 IBC-TV
 <! PROGRAM 15: 16-14 NewSoon
 !> PROGRAM 15: 16-14 VietUSA
    PROGRAM 16: 16-15 NetV
    PROGRAM 17: 16-16 RB-NetV
    PROGRAM 18: 16-17 FaithTV


SCANNING: 201000000 (us-bcast:11)
 <- LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=66 seq=100)
 <! TSID: 0x0001
 <! PROGRAM 1: 24-4 CH0 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 2: 24-2 CH1 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 3: 24-3 CH2 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 4: 24-1 DiyaTV
 <! PROGRAM 5: 24-5 CH4 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 6: 24-6 CH5 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 7: 24-7 CH6 (no data)
 <! PROGRAM 8: 24-8 VietBay
 !> LOCK: none (ss=95 snq=0 seq=0)

NOTE!

The full scan above was using my main CM4228HD antenna.

A later scan ~ 1 AM showed no signal on RF 11.

JUST for fun I looked at my second antenna online.

SCANNING: 201000000 (us-bcast:11)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=94 snq=82 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0001
PROGRAM 2: 24.8 Jewelry (no data)
PROGRAM 3: 24.3 Antenna (no data)
PROGRAM 4: 24.1 DiyaTV
PROGRAM 8: 24.5 VietBay
PROGRAM 10: 24.7 NewsNet


 
They may be trying to move their RF transmitter to Mt. Allison which may be illegal, I need to look at what was granted.
Note the TSID value.

SHF 10/1/2019
Attached Files
File Type: zip 107741B2_T2-10_1_2019.zip (5.1 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-01-2019 at 03:25 AM.
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17613 of 17813 Old 10-01-2019, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
From Monterey, CA - HDTV https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post58630544

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithWE6R View Post
OK, I never consider a change in Virtual Channels to be a "Re-Pack".
I was not aware KAAP was moving either, now I am NOT going to bother trying to get an antenna pointed that way.
Unless someone can sneak a VHF transmitter on that new antenna they just put up!
KAAP jumped on VC 24 as soon as they realized it was available.

They wanted to move to Mt. Allison and there is a station in San Francisco using VC 11 thus they could not continue to use VC 11.

-----------------------------------

Last night doing my monthly scan I discovered that KAAP VC 24 RF 11 appeared to have moved their RF 11 transmitter from Loma Prieta to Mt. Allison. I need to look at what the FCC approved as they are still using RF 11. They cannot use RF 24 on Mt. Allison until the repack.

You have to look at newly approved stations, adjacent markets, what RF channels are being used, what VC channels are being used, when can transmitters can be put on the air, when some stations need to move off of an RF channel …

It is very complicated, I am guessing that I get KAAP VC 24 RF 11 now on a different antenna because they have put up a temporary RF 11 on Mt. Allison and will light up KAAP VC 24 RF 24 during one of the repack dates when multiple stations must change frequency. And that takes two dates it is so complicated.


Someone else needs to verify that KAAP VC 24 RF 11 really is on Mt. Allison.

Chuck has stated that RF 11 on Mt. Allison is unlikely and illegal.

Quote:
someone can sneak a VHF transmitter on that new antenna they just put up!
The KAAP VC 24 RF 11 transmitter IS a VHF antenna, there must also be a RF 24 antenna planned.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-01-2019 at 02:35 PM.
SFischer1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17614 of 17813 Old 10-01-2019, 01:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hereford, AZ
Posts: 5,981
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1752 Post(s)
Liked: 403
KAAP does not have a Construction Permit or a license for RF 11 on Mt. Allison so they better not be there. They do have a Construction Permit for RF 24 on Mt. Allison. I don't think there's anything stopping them from building that facility. They don't need to wait for the repack next Spring since they wouldn't be interfering with any other station now. I think the closest RF 24 is in Fresno and they certainly wouldn't be interfering with that station.

Chuck
Calaveras is offline  
post #17615 of 17813 Old 10-01-2019, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
KAAP does not have a Construction Permit or a license for RF 11 on Mt. Allison so they better not be there. They do have a Construction Permit for RF 24 on Mt. Allison. I don't think there's anything stopping them from building that facility. They don't need to wait for the repack next Spring since they wouldn't be interfering with any other station now. I think the closest RF 24 is in Fresno and they certainly wouldn't be interfering with that station.

Chuck
OK, another example of my not understanding the FCC and stuff that may be on the forms that I cannot see.

YES, I was concerned that RF 11 disappearing from my antenna pointed at Sutro (Which is ~ 90 degrees away from Loma Prieta ) and appearing on the antenna pointed at Mt. Allison might be a wrong conclusion. I never saw KAAP before on the antenna pointed that way.

What actually happened is puzzling.

And "Antenna TV" which some people want has "No Data" now.

SHF
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17616 of 17813 Old 10-02-2019, 01:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,702
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked: 202
For the past three days I've been getting a much stronger signal from KAAP on RF 11 than I've previously received, but it's coming in the strongest with the antenna pointed WSW. That's not the direction of Loma Prieta or Mt. Allison. ? ? ?

Larry

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.larrykenney.com/broadcast.html
Live reception scans from my HD Home Run receivers: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/
Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html
Larry Kenney is offline  
post #17617 of 17813 Old 10-02-2019, 07:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
For the past three days I've been getting a much stronger signal from KAAP on RF 11 than I've previously received, but it's coming in the strongest with the antenna pointed WSW. That's not the direction of Loma Prieta or Mt. Allison. ? ? ?

Larry
That's the opposite of what I see now with an antenna pointed at Mt. Allison which is North East thus my bad guess as to KAAP moving RF 11 to Mt. Allison.

Loma is South West from here in Sunnyvale.

My main antenna pointed towards Sutro has lost KAAP.

We need more reports from other locations.

SHF
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17618 of 17813 Old 10-02-2019, 10:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
888CALLFCC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
My main antenna pointed towards Sutro has lost KAAP.

We need more reports from other locations.

SHF
No changes here.
Signal is maybe 5% weaker today but that could be do to the weather fluctuations.

They probably did some changes to make the horizontal polarization better (Larrys horizontal antenna)
And vertical polarization worse (indoor antennas & UHF antennas)

Something of that nature.
SFischer1 likes this.
888CALLFCC is offline  
post #17619 of 17813 Old 10-02-2019, 11:12 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 1
KAAP Channel 24 (24.1, 24.5 and 24.7) is coming in a little stronger for me as well, however I'm not getting any signal for 24.3 Antenna TV the last few days. My UHF and VHF antenna is pointed directly at Sutro Tower and I live in the Almaden Valley of South San Jose.
JeffHBlank is offline  
post #17620 of 17813 Old 10-02-2019, 11:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffHBlank View Post
KAAP Channel 24 (24.1, 24.5 and 24.7) is coming in a little stronger for me as well, however I'm not getting any signal for 24.3 Antenna TV the last few days. My UHF and VHF antenna is pointed directly at Sutro Tower and I live in the Almaden Valley of South San Jose.
AntennaTV VC 24.3 and Jewely VC 24.8 have NO Data and have had none since at least the start of October.

SHF
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17621 of 17813 Old 10-03-2019, 03:37 PM
Senior Member
 
kkpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Northern California Stations Changing Channel for Re-Pack
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Larry,

Sorry for being absent from the forum for awhile. I'll go check on things at Mt. Tam. I need to go out there to test out the internet link, since KQSL-LD is still being fed by KFTY-LD that HC2 bought. They haven't started programming KFTY-LD or KQRO-LD, which has been nice for me. I haven't been out to KQRO-LD in two years. If the radiation pattern is tilted, then it could be that the feed conductor for one of the CA-2s has corroded. I was enthusiastic in the past about circular polarization for low VHF, but the Kathrein-Scala CA2s have proven not to be nearly as reliable as their log periodic antennas. The CL-24 log periodic antennas up on Mt. St. Helena have been quite reliable! So, that is now my antenna of choice for low VHF.

I've been working on getting KQSL on more cable systems lately. Life is quite busy. I did have the chance to recently visit KKPM-CD and KYUB-LD at Sutter Buttes and KKRM-LD at Cohasset Ridge near Chico. I've also been out to the Mediacom head end in Clearlake a couple times recently. Also, I visited San Bruno Cable in San Bruno. Also, KQSL I visited Comcast's head end in Ukiah in June to provide them a feed. They were surprised when I just connected up a small deck-of-cards-sized receiver from Dektec to get KQSL via switched Ethernet. It has been quite reliable. I spoke to a guy named David in Willits who now watches KQSL via Comcast / xfinity cable channel 8.

Blessings,
Keith
President and Engineer, One Ministries, Inc.
rdvegas likes this.
kkpm is offline  
post #17622 of 17813 Old 10-04-2019, 02:12 PM
Senior Member
 
kkpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Larry

Wow, a viewer from Auburn watches KQSL-LD in Auburn, CA, 105 miles away from Mt. Tamalpais. Now if only viewers in San Francisco within 10 miles could pick up RF channel 4.
I suppose he isn't receiving from KKPM-CD instead, because KKPM-CD is off the side of his antenna, and his antenna is pointed southwest.


Best Regards,
Keith
kkpm is offline  
post #17623 of 17813 Old 10-04-2019, 08:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
888CALLFCC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpm View Post
Now if only viewers in San Francisco within 10 miles could pick up RF channel 4.


Best Regards,
Keith
I reported two months ago that RF-3 has stopped working here.
...For unknown reasons.
I see crumbs for signal. So its on the air. But no-go here anymore.
Antenna move or fall down ?

Post#17589 around 09/03

Last edited by 888CALLFCC; 10-04-2019 at 08:50 PM.
888CALLFCC is offline  
post #17624 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 03:56 PM
Member
 
bnwinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Hi.... I noticed yesterday afternoon -- Monday, October 7, 2019 -- that KGO-7 (7.1, 7.2, 7.3) appeared to be off the air -- no signal. It still seems to be off the air today (Tuesday, 10/8). Rescanning didn't help. Has anyone else noticed this? I can't seem to find any info about it, assuming it's not just me (all other stations I get -- I live in SF -- are coming in fine).

Thanks much in advance.... Brian
bnwinsf is offline  
post #17625 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 04:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Hi.... I noticed yesterday afternoon -- Monday, October 7, 2019 -- that KGO-7 (7.1, 7.2, 7.3) appeared to be off the air -- no signal. It still seems to be off the air today (Tuesday, 10/8). Rescanning didn't help. Has anyone else noticed this? I can't seem to find any info about it, assuming it's not just me (all other stations I get -- I live in SF -- are coming in fine).

Thanks much in advance.... Brian
Checking here in Sunnyvale, both RF 7 and RF 35 look good at 3:43 PM.

Checking the charts for RF 7 and RF 35 both look good for the default displayed period.

https://sfbayatsc.koherence.com/inde...bmon_channel=7

Which RF are you using, RF 7 from Sutro or RF 35 from Mt. Allison? They require different antenna types.

You do realize that RF 7 is a VHF signal and RF 35 is a UHF signal.

SHF
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17626 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 04:56 PM
Member
 
bnwinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Checking here in Sunnyvale, both RF 7 and RF 35 look good at 3:43 PM.

Checking the charts for RF 7 and RF 35 both look good for the default displayed period.

https://sfbayatsc.koherence.com/inde...bmon_channel=7

Which RF are you using, RF 7 from Sutro or RF 35 from Mt. Allison? They require different antenna types.

You do realize that RF 7 is a VHF signal and RF 35 is a UHF signal.

SHF
Thanks for the reply. I'm using RF 7 from Sutro. I have an VHF/UHF antenna (ClearStream 2Max) on my roof, and I've been getting RF 7 for years just fine. But yesterday, it just went black... no signal. Perhaps the problem is with my antenna or elsewhere in my set-up.

I could only find one person who tweeted yesterday that they lost KGO, too. But you'd think there would be more noise (here) if KGO was indeed down.

Thanks... Brian
bnwinsf is offline  
post #17627 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 05:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rdvegas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Northwest Las Vegas
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 387 Post(s)
Liked: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Thanks for the reply. I'm using RF 7 from Sutro. I have an VHF/UHF antenna (ClearStream 2Max) on my roof, and I've been getting RF 7 for years just fine. But yesterday, it just went black... no signal. Perhaps the problem is with my antenna or elsewhere in my set-up.

I could only find one person who tweeted yesterday that they lost KGO, too. But you'd think there would be more noise (here) if KGO was indeed down.

Thanks... Brian
Disconnect any amps in use and see if that helps.

Will the last subscriber leaving Dish Network please turn off the satellite.
rdvegas is offline  
post #17628 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 06:44 PM
Member
 
bnwinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdvegas View Post
Disconnect any amps in use and see if that helps.
I just tried that. I connected a TV directly to the antenna. Same issue... KGO still doesn’t come in at all. I’m going to try a different antenna tomorrow. I think it might be the antenna.

Thanks.... Brian
rdvegas likes this.
bnwinsf is offline  
post #17629 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 06:44 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: marin county
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Thanks for the reply. I'm using RF 7 from Sutro. I have an VHF/UHF antenna (ClearStream 2Max) on my roof, and I've been getting RF 7 for years just fine. But yesterday, it just went black... no signal. Perhaps the problem is with my antenna or elsewhere in my set-up.

I could only find one person who tweeted yesterday that they lost KGO, too. But you'd think there would be more noise (here) if KGO was indeed down.

Thanks... Brian

No signal lock from RF7 last 24 hours.
Using AntennaCraft Y10-7-13

Prior to event I had no issues receiving RF 7 in North Bay
ckwsp101_tv is offline  
post #17630 of 17813 Old 10-08-2019, 07:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv View Post
No signal lock from RF7 last 24 hours.
Using AntennaCraft Y10-7-13

Prior to event I had no issues receiving RF 7 in North Bay
We may be entering the NEW NORMAL.

Sutro must have started preparations or will soon. We may see lots of strange reception going on until May 2020. At various times of the day and night.

I noted that KRON and at least one other station on Sutro have requested a STA (Station Temporary Authority) to allow for non-standard operating conditions.

KGO, KRON and KNTV have a dance to get their new antennas up and tested.

KGO off of RF 7, KRON to RF 7, KGO to RF 12, KNTV off of RF 12 to RF 13 involving lots of antenna changes and testing.

Of course, none of the useful status reported to the FCC will be visible to us.

SHF

KRON STA (Granted)

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6d44b06b8c193e

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-09-2019 at 09:43 AM.
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17631 of 17813 Old 10-09-2019, 11:26 AM
Member
 
bnwinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
We may be entering the NEW NORMAL.

Sutro must have started preparations or will soon. We may see lots of strange reception going on until May 2020. At various times of the day and night.

I noted that KRON and at least one other station on Sutro have requested a STA (Station Temporary Authority) to allow for non-standard operating conditions.

KGO, KRON and KNTV have a dance to get their new antennas up and tested.

KGO off of RF 7, KRON to RF 7, KGO to RF 12, KNTV off of RF 12 to RF 13 involving lots of antenna changes and testing.

Of course, none of the useful status reported to the FCC will be visible to us.

SHF

KRON STA (Granted)

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6d44b06b8c193e
So maybe it's not my antenna. I thought it might have something to do with repack preparation, or something like that. But it still seems odd to me that, if indeed there currently is no KGO signal, there isn't any discussion of it taking place (along with no news about it.

Brian
bnwinsf is offline  
post #17632 of 17813 Old 10-09-2019, 11:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
So maybe it's not my antenna. I thought it might have something to do with repack preparation, or something like that. But it still seems odd to me that, if indeed there currently is no KGO signal, there isn't any discussion of it taking place (along with no news about it.

Brian
It is expected that only a very few viewers in the fringe reception area will be affected, those in SF are not expected to be affected.

Keep checking:

https://sfbayatsc.koherence.com/inde...bmon_channel=7

Individual viewers can only see problems when they want to watch TV, the monitoring station is up (Almost) 24/7/365.

It's likely not KGO VC 7 RF 7 & RF 35. But the KGO / KRON / KNTV dance has not started yet, there must be viewer problems upcoming at times, hopefully not prime time.

So keep checking your system.

EDIT: Any new buildings going up near you?

Does your antenna have a clear view of Sutro tower?

Perhaps sending in a PM your street address to Larry so he can help as he is in SF and has quite an antenna farm and checks stations for his list(s) quite often.

As KGO VC 7 RF 7 is VHF it may be affected differently.

I am chasing down a problem in my system that a friend just suggested perhaps a possibility to the problem which I had not thought about.


SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-09-2019 at 12:13 PM.
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17633 of 17813 Old 10-09-2019, 01:38 PM
Newbie
 
RTrinh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Another viewer here that cannot pick up KGO 7 on three TV's with three different indoor antennas.


I'm located near SI College Preparatory in the SF Sunset district and KGO's signal was always strong and just like bnwinsf starting Monday we weren't able to get KGO anymore.


Strange stuff.
RTrinh is offline  
post #17634 of 17813 Old 10-09-2019, 02:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTrinh View Post
Another viewer here that cannot pick up KGO 7 on three TV's with three different indoor antennas.


I'm located near SI College Preparatory in the SF Sunset district and KGO's signal was always strong and just like bnwinsf starting Monday we weren't able to get KGO anymore.


Strange stuff.
That makes it sound like KGO might have made a change that affects some San Francisco viewers but not the rest of the SF Bay area.

What was the reception for KGO when they were on the aux antenna each year for tower inspection and repair? They might have switched to them.

The plan is for a new RF 7 antenna be installed for use by KGO while their existing RF 7 antenna is removed from the top. Lower down a bit and also allow KRON to do some testing as they will be on RF 7.

But the repack period has NOT started yet for Sutro. City approval is still the hang up that may throw a wrench into the plans.

The latest "Transition Plan Progress Report" for KGO is due NOW. I will look closely at it but the information we need to read in the attachments is not available for us to see.

Ask if you or anybody wish to read it or the other filings that KGO has made to the FCC. Like one about their RF 12 new antenna.

SHF
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17635 of 17813 Old 10-09-2019, 03:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US
Posts: 16,859
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1659 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
The latest "Transition Plan Progress Report" for KGO is due NOW. I will look closely at it but the information we need to read in the attachments is not available for us to see.
Everything filed in the 387s is public.

- Trip
rdvegas likes this.

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #17636 of 17813 Old 10-10-2019, 02:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,702
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
That makes it sound like KGO might have made a change that affects some San Francisco viewers but not the rest of the SF Bay area.

What was the reception for KGO when they were on the aux antenna each year for tower inspection and repair? They might have switched to them.

The plan is for a new RF 7 antenna be installed for use by KGO while their existing RF 7 antenna is removed from the top. Lower down a bit and also allow KRON to do some testing as they will be on RF 7.

But the repack period has NOT started yet for Sutro. City approval is still the hang up that may throw a wrench into the plans.

The latest "Transition Plan Progress Report" for KGO is due NOW. I will look closely at it but the information we need to read in the attachments is not available for us to see.

Ask if you or anybody wish to read it or the other filings that KGO has made to the FCC. Like one about their RF 12 new antenna.

SHF
I have not seen any changes in the operation of KGO 7 from Sutro Tower. (I cannot receive KGO on channel 35, so I can't comment on that.) The channel 7 signal has been solid here and has not changed in signal levels. I have no idea why others are not receiving the channel. Perhaps KGO has used their auxiliary antenna, which I wouldn't notice here, being just 3/4 mile from the tower. If they have used it, it shouldn't affect signals near the tower, but those out in the suburbs might see a slight change in signal level.

Despite what Stephen reported, the city has approved the new antenna plans for the re-pack. Here's a direct quote from the Sutro Tower website: https://sutrotower.com/about-the-tower/ :

"San Francisco Planning Commission approved in July 2019 the permits to install new TV antennas mandated by the Federal Communications Commission, and to strengthen certain structural elements of the tower. This work will continue into 2020 so Bay Area stations can meet nationwide go-live deadlines for “repacking” broadcast signals into a smaller portion of the radio frequency spectrum, as 30% of bandwidth previously used by TV stations is shifted to wireless."

Work on the tower has already started and some stations have had to use their auxiliary antenna. No mention has been made, though, as to what channels have used their auxiliary antenna. You can see information about the antenna and tower project on the above mentioned website. I also posted a diagram here of the proposed antenna locations for the re-pack. See my post from September 28.

You should not see any channel changes until March, 2020, at the earliest, but you might see some signal level changes while they are working on the tower. Some stations have requested authority (an STA) from the FCC to make changes to their ERP during this construction project, as some of the existing antennas now being used will have to be vacated and removed so that new antennas for the new channels can be installed. There are also going to be some new stations added for RF channels 3, 4, 5 and 14, and you might see those before March.

Larry
rdvegas likes this.

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.larrykenney.com/broadcast.html
Live reception scans from my HD Home Run receivers: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/
Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html
Larry Kenney is offline  
post #17637 of 17813 Old 10-10-2019, 03:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
...

Despite what Stephen reported, the city has approved the new antenna plans for the re-pack.

...
Larry
A letter that I read that was quickly removed from the FCC site had a very different view of the approval process status.

I am glad to hear now that the city has approved the work.

----------------------

There is a temporary RF 7 antenna to be installed while other work is done.

If they have installed that antenna and KGO has started using that temporary RF 7 antenna then that might be the source of some nearby viewers losing KGO. That is a new antenna, not the auxiliary antenna for KGO lower down. That RF 7 auxiliary antenna must be kept for KRON use and a new RF 12 auxiliary antenna installed along with other auxiliary antennas.

When you see KGO's RF 7 antenna removed from the very top of Sutro, that will be proof that KGO is using the temporary RF 7 antenna.

Yes, KGO will switch to RF 12 on the predetermined date but much work and testing must be done. KGO on RF 12 must coordinate with KNTV on RF 12 use.

KGO will be using that temporary RF 7 antenna until it's RF 12 antenna is installed, tested and the designated repack switch date(s) have occurred.

Clearly KGO for normal use and KRON for testing their new RF 7 transmitter cannot be using the temporary RF 7 antenna at the same time.

I wish that I could provide a link to the KGO / KRON / KNTV dance, but that document was removed from the FCC site after I had read it.

I took a look at the pdf(s) on the Sutro site, the temp RF 7 antenna is not shown IMHO.

We would need to be able to look at the Sutro master plan for the repack, but we will not be allowed to.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-10-2019 at 03:07 PM.
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17638 of 17813 Old 10-10-2019, 05:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SFischer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Posts: 3,956
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1018 Post(s)
Liked: 124
KGO Transition Plan Progress Report has been filed 10/10/2019.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...d22ce&goBack=N

It sounds like real progress is being reported, "YES" mainly is the response to the questions except for "is work complete".

Note:

Attachments

Information not provided.


That's what I really wish to read.

---------------------------------------------

I may be incorrect in reporting a RF 7 temporary antenna will be installed and used, as I am relying on a very old filing. Why the KGO RF 7 auxiliary antenna could not be used was not explained then. The plan may have changed but I think not but have no proof.

This post has what I remember:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post55564050

This diagram has some errors but shows KRON below KGO in the final configuration.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1516871058

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 10-10-2019 at 05:54 PM.
SFischer1 is offline  
post #17639 of 17813 Old 10-10-2019, 06:10 PM
Member
 
minakami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
KGO Transition Plan Progress Report has been filed 10/10/2019.
I may be incorrect in reporting a RF 7 temporary antenna will be installed and used, as I am relying on a very old filing. Why the KGO RF 7 auxiliary antenna could not be used was not explained then. The plan may have changed but I think not but have no proof.
SHF
KGO's engineering was kind enough to confirm that they have been on the aux antenna since October 7. If you look at the SFBayATSC chart from October 7 you'll see the cutover happened at around 9:30 (there's a glitch of a few seconds). KGO will be on the aux antenna until the change to RF 12 on 5/1.

(It appears that there is ongoing maintenance at Sutro that results in other stations going to aux during the day only. In particular KFSF and KBCW RFs 34 and 45 respectively have been glitching daily at ~8AM and ~4PM since Sutro put out the notice regarding maintenance. KGO is not transitioning to the main antenna during evenings; its on aux 24/7).

The emission pattern of the aux antenna is different from that of the main. It's directional since it's on Sutro's 2nd level and horizontally polarized. Though I can't see any difference out here in Mountain View (where the SFBayATSC monitor is), viewers closer the tower could see a more drastic change. Some thoughts for SF viewers who can't get KGO...

1. Depending on where in San Francisco you are it is possible that multipath is an issue where it wasn't before. So re-orienting the antenna may help. You may also need a directional antenna to constrain multipath.
2. Even if the auxiliary antenna is directional I can't imagine getting no signal so close to the tower. If nothing else I'd think a reflected signal might be present. Which does raise another point that a reflected signal may be stronger than the primary, so antenna pointing may not be all that intuitive.

If you have a way to determine signal strength (i.e. received signal power) vs quality that may be helpful in figuring out what's going on. Silicon Dust HDHomerun tuners provide these separately, for example. If you're getting good signal strength but poor quality then it's likely multipath or some other noise is impairing the signal. Many TVs and receivers have a single meter which is a commingling of various metrics. That may not be as helpful in this case.
Larry Kenney, SFischer1 and RTrinh like this.
minakami is offline  
post #17640 of 17813 Old 10-10-2019, 06:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Larry Kenney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,702
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
A letter that I read that was quickly removed from the FCC site had a very different view of the approval process status.

I am glad to hear now that the city has approved the work.

----------------------

There is a temporary RF 7 antenna to be installed while other work is done.


SHF
Thanks to Minikami for the update on KGO! I can't tell the difference between the main antenna and aux antenna here, as I mentioned earlier. Apparently there isn't going to be a temporary RF 7 antenna, since KGO says they'll be in the Aux antenna until they switch to channel 12.

I wondered what they were going to do to get the new KGO and KRON antennas installed and tested. I thought they might use the Aux RF 7 antenna. I didn't see a temporary one shown on the antenna diagram. And, yes, KGO, KNTV and KRON are definitely going to have to coordinate their moves. I figure KNTV will move when it's ready anytime after March 14, leaving RF 12 available for KGO. Once KGO moves, then KRON can move to 7. Many of the other stations have nothing to worry about as their channel is already available. The only other conflicts I see are on channel 21 between KMAX and KCNZ and KDTV-CD, on channel 23 between KRCB and KQCA and on 28 between KCNZ and KBCW.

It's going to be fun watching all of the changes occur. Locally, KKPX can move anytime between January 18 and March 13. The Sutro stations, KPJK, KTVU and KCNS, are scheduled to move during the last week of April, according to Sutro management, which is actually later than the Phase 8 parameters. Phase 9 stations can move between March 14 and May 1, so we should see a lot of changes then, but Sutro stations in Phase 9 are scheduled to move on May 1. We'll all get to see how it all works out!



Larry
rdvegas, SFischer1 and minakami like this.

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html
Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.larrykenney.com/broadcast.html
Live reception scans from my HD Home Run receivers: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/
Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

Last edited by Larry Kenney; 10-10-2019 at 07:11 PM.
Larry Kenney is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off