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post #17701 of 17919 Old 10-27-2019, 09:42 PM
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Those cable must carry rules should be scrapped, given the new re-pack scenarios. Having lost many bands that would have been must carry, those should be replaced in some fashion. It's a huge windfall for the cable companies, as any non .1 station would have to pay to get carried on cable. Frankly, they should be required to carry all of the local stations with x eyes or greater. Not sure what x should be?

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #17702 of 17919 Old 10-27-2019, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Those cable must carry rules should be scrapped, given the new re-pack scenarios. Having lost many bands that would have been must carry, those should be replaced in some fashion. It's a huge windfall for the cable companies, as any non .1 station would have to pay to get carried on cable. Frankly, they should be required to carry all of the local stations with x eyes or greater. Not sure what x should be?
Crossed Eyes?

Try your idea in:

Atsc 3.0

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...-new-post.html

There have been more radical ideas of the future of OTA.

SHF
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post #17703 of 17919 Old 10-28-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Crossed Eyes?

Try your idea in:

Atsc 3.0

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...-new-post.html

There have been more radical ideas of the future of OTA.

SHF
Betty Davis eyes!

I think Atsc 3.0 is going to be DOA, unless mandated by the FCC. As to 5G, that's where it's headed and will eventually replace any current OTA scenario. Just a matter of time. OTA is a dead man walking ....

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #17704 of 17919 Old 10-28-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
As I said, ALL stations on Sutro are affected when work in being done on ANY arm. Workers cannot be exposed to the signals from the other arms thus ALL stations must be on their AUX antennas when workers are up top.

They travel up in an elevator in one of the legs so they are not affected by the AUX antennas in use. When those AUX antennas are being worked on stations must be on their main antennas which will not be until after the last repack date.

If you look at the current tower configuration you will see that KPIX, which is not changing RF frequency, is on a arm with KRON and KTVU which are changing frequency. Thus the arm must be replaced.
.....
I think that KTVU has been on their AUX antenna all day Sunday thus work may be ongoing even today. So KPIX may be on their AUX antenna and any other station at any time. The workers must be kept safe at all times. The FCC requires a statement from any station to that effect.
....
Actually starting 2-3 weeks ago you can't count on getting your programs until the repack is done. Work is being done when workers and equipment is available, which is on a schedule that we will not know about.

SHF

Thank you! An excellent explanation.

On their way past the other antennas in the elevator, they can just leave their sandwiches outside the Faraday cage and they will be nice and warm when they arrive.



Paul
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post #17705 of 17919 Old 10-28-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pault1 View Post
Been too long since I heard this particular detail, is KPIX on one of the affected antennas? We are line of sight to Sutro and San Bruno in the East Bay hills, and have found that their signal has deteriorated slightly so that they not always above the digital drop-out level. It's an indoor antenna. I have tried careful readjustment but it's still marginal (shows 48-58%) where it previously 54 to 60+%. For our system, one of the analog to digital boxes, low 50's means dropouts, making shows unwatchable.
A few things I notice here.

There should be no problems when you are line of sight & you can see the towers.
BUT ... KPIX 5-1 using UHF RF 29
WHEN.. RF 28,29,30 are in use.
All high power stations.
Overload zone.

Are you using an "amplified" antenna ?

Now starting from RF 27,28,29,30,& 31 will all have problems with bleed over.
29 is in the middle of the mush.
Overload city.

Ditch amplified antennas and the problem goes away.
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post #17706 of 17919 Old 10-28-2019, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Betty Davis eyes!

I think Atsc 3.0 is going to be DOA, unless mandated by the FCC. As to 5G, that's where it's headed and will eventually replace any current OTA scenario. Just a matter of time. OTA is a dead man walking ....

Aren't you the guy who predicted the end of AM broadcasting, then FM, and way back for buggy whips?

Will the last subscriber leaving Dish Network please turn off the satellite.
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post #17707 of 17919 Old 10-28-2019, 08:32 PM
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Aren't you the guy who predicted the end of AM broadcasting, then FM, and way back for buggy whips?
Have you heard AM and FM broadcasting? UGH. May as well go away.
rdvegas likes this.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #17708 of 17919 Old 10-29-2019, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pault1 View Post
We are line of sight to Sutro and San Bruno in the East Bay hills, and have found that their signal has deteriorated slightly so that they not always above the digital drop-out level. It's an indoor antenna. I have tried careful readjustment but it's still marginal (shows 48-58%) where it previously 54 to 60+%. For our system, one of the analog to digital boxes, low 50's means dropouts, making shows unwatchable.
Assuming your scale goes up to 100%, I'd say that ~60% is very poor for where you're located. You probably have a lot of multipath with an indoor antenna. You may be LOS when you're standing outside but your antenna is nowhere near LOS. Even a small outdoor antenna would likely restore your reception. You don't need any amps either. Signals are extremely strong at your location.

The ATSC system is designed for stations to be adjacent as long as the difference in signal strength doesn't exceed 33 dB. Even a 1 KW station adjacent to a 1000 KW station should be okay.

Chuck
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post #17709 of 17919 Old 10-29-2019, 05:04 PM
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The ATSC system is designed for stations to be adjacent as long as the difference in signal strength doesn't exceed 33 dB.

Chuck
On the roof, with the spectrum analyzer. Problem solving.
The wind has moved the antennas so now re-aim & adjust.

RF-7 & RF-12. Big overload problems.
As you move the antenna with the spectrum analyzer on, it's very noticeable that RF-12 is on RF-13 in almost all positions, with a slight null pointed to RF-13 KCBA but weak and won't lock.
Same problem with KGO-7 + KSBW-8

On the other hand, KVIE & KXTV have NO problems at all because of no powerful adjacent channels.
As of late,.. KXTV has improved dramastically here. Where KVIE has not. Not sure when that took place, but it has.
Still no UHF reception here from Walnut Grove, and will never be.
Analyzer may show a UHF momentary burp from noise every 5 minutes.
Analyzer shows peaks of those stations are about 1 degree apart. With KVIE 1 degree north of KXTV.

May try to figure out how to do a signal cancellation of RF-12 & RF-7 with 3 antennas.
To bring the Salinas stations online.

The FM band looks to be 5 times stronger then the tv band.
Another problem.
It's a "wall" on the analyzer.

After the re-pack, should probably bring down RF-12 & RF-7 here so 8,9,10,& 11 are problem free.
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post #17710 of 17919 Old 10-29-2019, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpm View Post
T
Keith
Not sure what causes this.

The image is frozen on 17-2 & 17-3
If something doesn't change in usually 5 minutes.
Something is wrong.
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post #17711 of 17919 Old 10-29-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpm View Post
T
Keith
Not sure what causes this.

The image is frozen on 17-2 & 17-3
If something doesn't change in usually 5 minutes.
Something is wrong.
Thanks for letting me know. Rick of CMC wrote that his part of Oakland lost power this evening and that crews are working on it.
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post #17712 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 02:37 PM
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I am in Sunnyvale and am experiencing some digital artifacting (and weaker signals I assume) on KPIX Channel 5.

Before I go up on the roof and start moving my antenna around, I thought I'd check here to see if anyone knows of any reason that I would be experiencing issues with KPIX... Normally, my reception of KPIX is rock solid...

Anyway... If there are no reasons why I should be experiencing these issues, I will probably go up and play with the aim...

Thanks in advance for any comments or feedback.

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post #17713 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 04:07 PM
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San Jose Locals Help

My friend lives at warehouse in San jose. The office where the TV is is at the front of the building, Glass front door, concrete walls:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038edaeb0eddb

He has an amplified disc/rabbit ear antenna with cable and antennal outs and gains for UHF and VHF. We can't get any signal from Channels 2, 4, 5, 9, 54 or 11.1 (and others that I can't remember) (gets 11.3) but he gets KGO 7, 36 at 75%.

signal strength and of course all the Vietnamese (16.x?) channels.

The TV is an LG from 2012. I know the location is not ideal but why channel 7.1 so well and not the others?

There is an attic above the office too and appreciate any antenna advise?

thx

bob
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post #17714 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeekiM01 View Post
I am in Sunnyvale and am experiencing some digital artifacting (and weaker signals I assume) on KPIX Channel 5.

Before I go up on the roof and start moving my antenna around, I thought I'd check here to see if anyone knows of any reason that I would be experiencing issues with KPIX... Normally, my reception of KPIX is rock solid...

Antenna work for the repack is ongoing at Sutro these days and the stations have to use the low auxiliary antennas when this is occurring. Your antenna location is probably unfavorable for KPIX when it's on the aux antenna. Not much you can do except wait until it's over next Spring.

Chuck
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post #17715 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
He has an amplified disc/rabbit ear antenna with cable and antennal outs and gains for UHF and VHF. We can't get any signal from Channels 2, 4, 5, 9, 54 or 11.1 (and others that I can't remember) (gets 11.3) but he gets KGO 7, 36 at 75% signal strength and of course all the Vietnamese (16.x?) channels.

These channels are all transmitting from the hills above Fremont so it sounds like he's getting nothing from Sutro. The only real solution is to put an antenna on top of the building so that it has a clearer path to Sutro.

Chuck
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post #17716 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
These channels are all transmitting from the hills above Fremont so it sounds like he's getting nothing from Sutro. The only real solution is to put an antenna on top of the buildings so that it has a clearer path to Sutro.

Chuck
Thanks, Chuck.

How do I see what other channels come from Fremont?

thx

bob
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post #17717 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Thanks, Chuck.

How do I see what other channels come from Fremont?

thx

bob

Look at Larry's list of stations:

http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html

Use the "Transmitter Location" column.

Chuck
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post #17718 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Thanks, Chuck.

How do I see what other channels come from Fremont?

thx

bob
To SEE:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

Enter your ZipCode into the search box and click on "Move Puhpin to Center of Map View" click "GO".

Select "Current Station Search Map" and zoom in or out as desired.

Note: TVFool which has a similar map is not recommended anymore as it data is NOT being updated.

SHF
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post #17719 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
Antenna work for the repack is ongoing at Sutro these days and the stations have to use the low auxiliary antennas when this is occurring. Your antenna location is probably unfavorable for KPIX when it's on the aux antenna. Not much you can do except wait until it's over next Spring.

Chuck
Thanks for the heads-up Chuck! Too bad I have to deal with this for the next 6 months... I'll have to see if it impacts my other channels as well. If it's only KPIX, I can always subscribe to CBS All Access as a stop gap for that timeframe...

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post #17720 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeekiM01 View Post
Thanks for the heads-up Chuck! Too bad I have to deal with this for the next 6 months... I'll have to see if it impacts my other channels as well. If it's only KPIX, I can always subscribe to CBS All Access as a stop gap for that timeframe...
It's not just KPIX.

See my post:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post58740094

SHF
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post #17721 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
To SEE:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

Enter your ZipCode into the search box and click on "Move Puhpin to Center of Map View" click "GO".

Select "Current Station Search Map" and zoom in or out as desired.

Note: TVFool which has a similar map is not recommended anymore as it data is NOT being updated.

SHF
Curious why there are two Channel 2's, (44) and (26), one closer than the other?

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=24297

thx

bob
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post #17722 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Curious why there are two Channel 2's, (44) and (26), one closer than the other?

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=24297

thx

bob

RF 26 is a low power translator transmitting from Fremont serving the south bay. It's supposed to be an alternative for people having trouble with RF 44 from Sutro.

Chuck
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post #17723 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 09:35 PM
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Curious why there are two Channel 2's, (44) and (26), one closer than the other?

...

thx

bob
The News Departments of KTVU and KGO funded the two translators to have better coverage for the South bay.

It has paid off for KTVU big time as they have gotten tons of money for winning the News Wars. They have so many newscasts now, switching to KICU which they own for News during the World Series and Thursday night Football which I am watching and the 49'ers win again.

KTVU's weather shows how much they are paying the weather consulates, new graphics keep showing up to better explain the weather like their new wind speed graphic which showed in color where the winds would be the worse.

KNTV has tried to counter with a weather radar on a truck. Give me a break.

SHF
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post #17724 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
RF 26 is a low power translator transmitting from Fremont serving the south bay. It's supposed to be an alternative for people having trouble with RF 44 from Sutro.

Chuck
Curious why we can't get it (2.1) then if 7.1 comes from the same spot, which we get @ 75%.

Can a 7 year old TV's tuner affect anything?

thx

bob

Last edited by spongebob; 10-31-2019 at 10:50 PM.
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post #17725 of 17919 Old 10-31-2019, 11:38 PM
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Curious why we can't get it (2.1) then if 7.1 comes from the same spot, which we get @ 75%.

Can a 7 year old TV's tuner affect anything?

thx

bob
Well, there are several factors.

First KTVU VC 2 RF 26 is UHF as is KGO VC 7 RF 35. Some people do not know which transmitter they are using as the Virtual Channel display by their HTDV is the same.

And KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also UHF while KGO VC 7 RF 7 is VHF and requires a different antenna.

KGO VC 7 RF 7 is on an AUX antennal now and it appears to me that KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also on an AUX antenna 24/7.

The antenna you are using may be the difference, where it is pointing and the type.

A 7 year old HDTV should not be the problem IMHO.

SHF
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post #17726 of 17919 Old 11-01-2019, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Curious why we can't get it (2.1) then if 7.1 comes from the same spot, which we get @ 75%.

Can a 7 year old TV's tuner affect anything?

thx

bob

I agree with SFischer1. You may not know which RF channel you are receiving for 2.1. You need to check if you are actually tuning to RF 26. Different TVs handle two of the same virtual channel numbers with different RF channels in different ways.

Do you know which 7.1 you are receiving?

Tuners have mostly been good for some time now and a 7 year old TV should have a decent tuner.

Chuck
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post #17727 of 17919 Old 11-01-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Well, there are several factors.

First KTVU VC 2 RF 26 is UHF as is KGO VC 7 RF 35. Some people do not know which transmitter they are using as the Virtual Channel display by their HTDV is the same.

And KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also UHF while KGO VC 7 RF 7 is VHF and requires a different antenna.

KGO VC 7 RF 7 is on an AUX antennal now and it appears to me that KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also on an AUX antenna 24/7.

The antenna you are using may be the difference, where it is pointing and the type.

A 7 year old HDTV should not be the problem IMHO.

SHF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I agree with SFischer1. You may not know which RF channel you are receiving for 2.1. You need to check if you are actually tuning to RF 26. Different TVs handle two of the same virtual channel numbers with different RF channels in different ways.

Do you know which 7.1 you are receiving?

Tuners have mostly been good for some time now and a 7 year old TV should have a decent tuner.

Chuck

Thanks Guys for all the info. When did the Sutro work start? Seemed like a few weeks ago he was getting many more channels including the missing Sutro ones, at least sporadically. Also, I checked my OTA setup at home at the base of the east san jose foothills where I am around 150 feet ASL with a "cyclone fence" antenna on a 15' mast and I can't get any 2.1 either but I'm fine on other Sutro channels.

thx

bob
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post #17728 of 17919 Old 11-01-2019, 12:50 PM
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Will a better antenna help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Well, there are several factors.

First KTVU VC 2 RF 26 is UHF as is KGO VC 7 RF 35. Some people do not know which transmitter they are using as the Virtual Channel display by their HTDV is the same.

And KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also UHF while KGO VC 7 RF 7 is VHF and requires a different antenna.

KGO VC 7 RF 7 is on an AUX antennal now and it appears to me that KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is also on an AUX antenna 24/7.

The antenna you are using may be the difference, where it is pointing and the type.

A 7 year old HDTV should not be the problem IMHO.

SHF

I am located in Cupertino at 200'+ elevation with line of sight to Sutro 34 miles away. For several years I have been watching HDTV with excellent picture and sound using an old Winegard CH-6065 directional roof mounted FM antenna pointed directly at Sutro. With the move of channel 7 to the AUX antenna it is no longer watchable 24/7. All other channels I watch are fine. Would using a different antenna be likely to improve the situation? Or should I live without 7 until repack is completed and hope things get better?


Thanks to all posting on this forum. It is the only source of information I can find during these changes.


Jack
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post #17729 of 17919 Old 11-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jgoudey View Post
I am located in Cupertino at 200'+ elevation with line of sight to Sutro 34 miles away. For several years I have been watching HDTV with excellent picture and sound using an old Winegard CH-6065 directional roof mounted FM antenna pointed directly at Sutro. With the move of channel 7 to the AUX antenna it is no longer watchable 24/7. All other channels I watch are fine. Would using a different antenna be likely to improve the situation? Or should I live without 7 until repack is completed and hope things get better?


Thanks to all posting on this forum. It is the only source of information I can find during these changes.


Jack

You're using an FM antenna for TV? I always recommend that you use the correct antenna for the job. An FM antenna is a horrible antenna for TV. I can virtually guarantee you that an FM antenna on VHF/UHF TV doesn't have a main lobe off the front like you think. Get yourself a Winegard HD-7694P and your reception will likely be restored.

Chuck
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post #17730 of 17919 Old 11-01-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Thanks Guys for all the info. When did the Sutro work start? Seemed like a few weeks ago he was getting many more channels including the missing Sutro ones, at least sporadically. Also, I checked my OTA setup at home at the base of the east san jose foothills where I am around 150 feet ASL with a "cyclone fence" antenna on a 15' mast and I can't get any 2.1 either but I'm fine on other Sutro channels.

thx

bob
Most people in the east San Jose foothills are blocked to Monument Peak/Mt Allison above Fremont. Looks like you're just unlucky with 2.1 on RF 44 when they're on the aux antenna.

Chuck
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