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post #17731 of 17780 Old 11-01-2019, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoudey View Post
I have been watching HDTV with excellent picture and sound using an old Winegard CH-6065 directional roof mounted FM antenna

Jack
Crack me up !! The ultimate hack,.. using the FM antenna.

Question..Can you pick up KQSL 17-1 with it ? It should.
Scan RF 4 , 3, or 2

Another side effect with this setup would be "analog" channel 6 showing up on the tv-6 or blasting KQED-FM audio on channel 6

Verdict...scrap this FM hack.

9" aluminum kitchen pie tins would work better for UHF then the setup you currently have.
For any chance that you have of this working is that you are in a moderately strong signal area with probably breakups with every aircraft that flys by.

Pie tin antenna ? Anybody ?
LoL
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post #17732 of 17780 Old 11-02-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
The ultimate hack,.. using the FM antenna.

Question..Can you pick up KQSL 17-1 with it ? It should.
Scan RF 4 , 3, or 2

Another side effect with this setup would be "analog" channel 6 showing up on the tv-6 or blasting KQED-FM audio on channel 6

Verdict...scrap this FM hack.

9" aluminum kitchen pie tins would work better for UHF then the setup you currently have.
For any chance that you have of this working is that you are in a moderately strong signal area with probably breakups with every aircraft that flys by.

Pie tin antenna ? Anybody ?
LoL
Well, I guess you can call it a hack but it was more of an accident. I already had the FM antenna in 2012 when I decided to leave cable. I hooked up to the FM antenna just to see what would happen fully expecting to need a new antenna. To my surprise it not only worked but picture and sound quality were much better than from cable. All of the channels I cared about came in just fine in HD so I just left it.. I have not had any of the problems you mention but I don't go looking for hard to receive channels.


Now things are changing so I have ordered a new antenna (thanks Chuck for your recommendation). Hopefully this will get me through REPACK.
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post #17733 of 17780 Old 11-02-2019, 10:53 PM
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November 2, 2019 changes since 10_1_2019

The changes since 10_1_2019.

I thought that I had a bad HDHR5-4US but when a new power supply was used the problems I had seen before continued.

So I installed a new HDHR4-2US. The problems continued.

I traced the problem to the orientation of the coax cable. I am thinking if grounding the Channel Master CM3418 8-Port Distribution Amplifier might help as I spotted a grounding terminal.

I am going to continue with the new HDHR4-2US and my old two antenna connection HDHR, I like the tuner lights a lot.

--------------------------------------------


RF 39, likely did not show up due to the antenna work being done on Sutro.

SCANNING: 623000000 (us-bcast:39)
<! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=85 snq=50 seq=100)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=86 snq=42 seq=100)
<! TSID: 0x0189
<! PROGRAM 1: 38-1 SBN
<! PROGRAM 2: 38-2 Sino TV
<! PROGRAM 3: 42-1 KTNC
<! PROGRAM 4: 38-4 Estrell
<! PROGRAM 5: 38-5 NTD
<! PROGRAM 7: 50-1 Azteca
<! PROGRAM 8: 50-2 CRTV
<! PROGRAM 9: 50-3 Revenue

RF 38, Does KRON have a bad TSID???

SCANNING: 617000000 (us-bcast:38)
<! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=62 seq=0)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=65 seq=100)
<! TSID: 0x0179
!> TSID: 0x0BA3
PROGRAM 3: 4-2 Skylink
PROGRAM 4: 4-1 KRON-TV
PROGRAM 5: 4-3 GetTV
PROGRAM 6: 4-4 CourtTV

RF 28, why this station re-appeared is unknown.

SCANNING: 557000000 (us-bcast:28)
<! LOCK: none (ss=91 snq=0 seq=0)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=97 snq=48 seq=100)
!> TSID: 0x0FE5
!> PROGRAM 1: 28-1 Evine
!> PROGRAM 2: 28-2 HSN
!> PROGRAM 3: 61-1 KQRM-LD
!> PROGRAM 4: 20-4 LATV
!> PROGRAM 5: 20-3 Evine
!> PROGRAM 6: 28-6 ShopLC
!> PROGRAM 7: 20-1 KOFY-TV
!> PROGRAM 8: 20-2 This-TV
!> PROGRAM 9: 32-1 KMTP
!> PROGRAM 10: 20-8 FunRoad
!> PROGRAM 11: 28-3 QuestTV
!> PROGRAM 12: 20-7 KOFY

RF 23, also why this station re-appeared, they may due to a new tuner, the cable being positioned differently, ???

SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
<- LOCK: none (ss=37 snq=0 seq=0)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=98 seq=100)
!> TSID: 0x0103
!> PROGRAM 1: 22-1 KRCB-DT
!> PROGRAM 2: 22-2 KRCB-C
!> PROGRAM 3: 22-3 NHKWORL

RF 20, now a real change!!!

SCANNING: 509000000 (us-bcast:20)
<! LOCK: 8vsb (ss=97 snq=63 seq=100)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=99 snq=80 seq=100)
TSID: 0x1FC7
PROGRAM 3: 16-1 Hai Le
PROGRAM 4: 16-2 Hanh Le
<! PROGRAM 5: 16-3 VietSky (no data)
!> PROGRAM 5: 16-3 VietSky
PROGRAM 6: 16-4 VLife
PROGRAM 7: 16-5 QHTV
PROGRAM 8: 16-6 NetViet
PROGRAM 9: 16-7 VietTop
<! PROGRAM 10: 16-8 Vietpho
!> PROGRAM 10: 16-8 VBS
PROGRAM 11: 16-9 U-ChTV
PROGRAM 12: 16-10 Cali HS
PROGRAM 13: 16-11 SETTV
PROGRAM 14: 16-12 IBC-TV
PROGRAM 15: 16-14 VietUSA
PROGRAM 16: 16-15 NetV
PROGRAM 17: 16-16 RB-NetV
PROGRAM 18: 16-17 FaithTV

RF 11, another mystery popup.

SCANNING: 201000000 (us-bcast:11)
<! LOCK: none (ss=95 snq=0 seq=0)
!> LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=61 seq=100)
!> TSID: 0x0001
!> PROGRAM 2: 24-8 Jewelry
!> PROGRAM 3: 24-3 Antenna
!> PROGRAM 4: 24-1 DiyaTV
!> PROGRAM 8: 24-5 VietBay
!> PROGRAM 10: 24-7 NewsNet

With the work on Sutro and my changing tuner / cables, stations may come and go.

SHF
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post #17734 of 17780 Old 11-03-2019, 12:19 PM
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I've been out of town for a week and a half. During that time I've received numerous emails with questions about reception problems, mainly about KGO 7. To help answer viewers questions, and to hopefully keep me from having to answer so many emails, I've added the following information to the top of my TV Channel Lists.

- - -

Information on Antenna and Channel Changes

During the next few months you're going to be seeing lots of antenna changes as stations prepare for the Re-Pack in the Spring of 2020.

At Sutro Tower, KGO 7 has already switched to its Auxiliary antenna so that the crew can remove their main antenna and add two new antennas, one for KGO's operation on RF channel 12 as of May 1 and one for KRON which will be moving to RF channel 7. KGO will remain on its Auxiliary antenna until they change to channel 12 on May 1. Several other antennas will have to be changed as well, and some stations will have to use their Auxiliary antennas during the times work is being performed.

There will be antennas changed at the Mt. San Bruno and Mt. Allison transmitter sites as well and stations will also have to use their Auxiliary antennas during the time work is being performed.

Be aware that you might see no change in signal strength, receive a weaker signal, or receive no signal at all when a station uses its Auxiliary antenna.

Most stations will be changing channels during late April or early May. Sutro stations will be changing during the last week of April and the first week of May, 2020.

There is also a link to the Re-Pack information page.

Larry

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post #17735 of 17780 Old 11-04-2019, 11:58 AM
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Here is a picture of Sutro Tower taken yesterday from my living room window. The old KGO main antenna has been removed. [edit update] What I thought was the KBCW 45 antenna at the top of the south tower actually looks like a support pole, so the KBCW main antenna is gone, too. I'll keep you updated on the Sutro antenna re-pack progress as I see it.

For a look at what the antennas looked like at Sutro before any changes, go to https://larrykenney.com/sutrotwr.html

Larry
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Last edited by Larry Kenney; 11-04-2019 at 12:10 PM.
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post #17736 of 17780 Old 11-04-2019, 01:00 PM
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The following is part of an article in today's edition of the "TV Technology" newsletter.

It'll be interesting to see what happens here in the Bay Area in the next 7 months.

Larry

- - -

REPACK GETS ‘C’ GRADE AT BEST
by James E. O'Neal

Stations are relocating, but with STAs and temp facilities.

“The wheels are coming off the repack,” declared Bill Meintel, principle of the Meintel, Sgrignoli, & Wallace firm, in reflecting on his experience with some of his television clients and the repack statistical homework he’s done.

In examining the numbers of channel transitions fully completed during the first five phases of the repack, Meintel determined that only about 73% of the stations had fully met their objective of moving to a new channel with coverage equal to what they provided with their pre-repack facilities.

As defined by Meintel, a fully successful repack means that a station met its repack deadline fully, is licensed according to the terms of its construction permit, and is providing service comparable to what was offered on its original channel prior to the repack—in other words, no STAs.

In compiling his repack “score,” Meintel said that he drew on a number of resources, determining that at the end of Phase 5 (which was officially concluded on Sept. 19), a total of 528 stations should have been operating on their new channel assignments. However, based on data available in late September, only 388 stations—just 73.5%—had completely finished repacking activities. He observed too, that out of the 984 stations identified as repack candidates, 496 of these were assigned to Phases 6 through 10.

Meintel is not alone in his belief that progress on the repack has slipped considerably.

“I don’t expect it to be fully completed by deadline—maybe 80%,” said Stephen Lockwood, a senior engineer and partner of the Seattle-based consulting firm of Hatfield and Dawson. “Scheduling problems and the other things that we’ve talked about over the years are serious bottlenecks. Also, a number of entities have not planned appropriately, considering the limited availability of tower crews, qualified personnel to do antenna testing—once they’re in place, structural engineers to work out tower modifications, and even the manufacturing end of things for such things as transmission line.”

John Hidle, a consulting engineer with the Virginia-based Carl T. Jones consulting firm agrees.

“It’s going very slowly,” said Hidle. “A number of the stations we represent are typically making the transition with temporary facilities. We’ve been pretty much able to keep up in Phase 6 with about 40 % of them making the transition. The remaining 60% have been working furiously to put up temporary antennas.”

Hidle said that his firm is working with about 100 stations spread across various phases of the repack, and that the end-point shortfall number predicted by Meintel is likely correct. And as with others interviewed for this article, Hidle identifies the root of the problem as an FCC goal that was way too ambitious; a position that most in the industry voiced when the 36-month construction timetable was announced.

“There are just not enough qualified people,” he said. “A factory can only make so many antennas, and I’ve been told that the two major ones are running at least two shifts every day of the week to keep up with the demand. But people get tired; I’m tired. Everybody is trying their best. Nobody is slacking off. It’s a matter of just how much people can do in a given amount of time.”
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post #17737 of 17780 Old 11-05-2019, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Here is a picture of Sutro Tower taken yesterday from my living room window. The old KGO main antenna has been removed. [edit update] What I thought was the KBCW 45 antenna at the top of the south tower actually looks like a support pole, so the KBCW main antenna is gone, too. I'll keep you updated on the Sutro antenna re-pack progress as I see it.

For a look at what the antennas looked like at Sutro before any changes, go to https://larrykenney.com/sutrotwr.html

Larry
Thanks for the continuing information!


Our KPIX signal today was really wonky. This was around 8 to 9 a.m. The signal percentage (what our D>A converter box shows) would be in the mid-50's, pretty much the minimum range for a lock, then would suddenly drop to zero and display No Signal. I tried minor aiming adjustments with little improvements. The other high band signals were fine, though those usually show higher percentages anyway. ABC was also jumping in and out in the low band, though not as disastrously. We'll just assume that it will continue badly. My SWAG was that once it was 8 a.m., the workers were starting up the tower and the elevators were somehow interfering or causing multipath that caused the trouble.
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post #17738 of 17780 Old 11-06-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pault1 View Post
Thanks for the continuing information!


Our KPIX signal today was really wonky. This was around 8 to 9 a.m. The signal percentage (what our D>A converter box shows) would be in the mid-50's, pretty much the minimum range for a lock, then would suddenly drop to zero and display No Signal. I tried minor aiming adjustments with little improvements. The other high band signals were fine, though those usually show higher percentages anyway. ABC was also jumping in and out in the low band, though not as disastrously. We'll just assume that it will continue badly. My SWAG was that once it was 8 a.m., the workers were starting up the tower and the elevators were somehow interfering or causing multipath that caused the trouble.
KPIX must be on the Auxiliary antenna, because even here, 3/4 miles from the tower, their signal is lower than all of the others. Normally I get them at 100% strength and close to 100% quality while today they're down to 95% strength and only 68% quality.

I haven't seen any changes in KGO's signal since they switched to their Auxiliary antenna, but that change didn't affect me like it has from many of you.

As noted in the picture above, they are working on the tower on a regular basis. The top section of the south tower that KGO and KBCW operated from is completely gone.

Larry

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post #17739 of 17780 Old 11-06-2019, 08:09 PM
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Something has been going on with the KGO Translator RF35 for the last couple nights. It's fine during the day, but around 5-6pm, it starts breaking up or goes black, despite having a strong signal. I don't think it's just me, as it can be observed at the koherence signal monitor, the MPTS statistics monitor goes to all 9's around this time each night.
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post #17740 of 17780 Old 11-07-2019, 11:16 PM
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Again tonight at 5pm, KGO Translator RF35 broadcast broke up. The sfbayatsc.koherence.com broadcast monitor shows transport stream sequence errors getting worse around 4:50, then pegged at 9/s around 5pm:

Code:
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:47:00............................................................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:48:00............................................................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:49:00............................................5...............
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:50:0022.....1..1..........4........2............2................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:51:00.................62.68......1...2...........2...2.2922..4..1
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:52:00.12292.8.985974482.3....2..1..9..6....34..................2.
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:53:00459..5..9992542.9.994.9986399999979999929911.4.4...9.....1..
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:54:00....2.1242.....4....22..2.61.......2...1.22........9........
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:55:00...2.2...7...22......499.4.....2....9.2......9....492.......
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:56:00.....3..........1......92...393224919..........2.98.....4...
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:57:00...2.95......25.48..............2..2.9.2...22.92.22..99997..
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:58:00.24.297.992937874998.799999999999999999949999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:59:009999999999499999994999999999998549984972.239.249999987334.69
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:00:0099999999999929999299699749.934999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:01:00999999999999999999999999999999999999199999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:02:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:03:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999994999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:04:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:05:00999999999999922799999998999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:06:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:07:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
It seems every night this week, it has done this starting around 5-6pm, then recovering in the morning around 7-10am.

Does anyone know if this due to the repack work being done?
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post #17741 of 17780 Old 11-08-2019, 08:28 AM
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Thanks for the regular updates Larry & Chuck!

Last night I discovered that I am no longer able to receive a usable signal from ABC (KGO), which joins my existing problems with KPIX (CBS). Ugh... This is going to be a long 6 months!

I think I may need to look into paid options during this transition...

Again, thanks for the updates... If it weren't for these updates, i would be up on my roof fruitlessly re-aiming my antenna!

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post #17742 of 17780 Old 11-08-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeekiM01 View Post
Thanks for the regular updates Larry & Chuck!

Last night I discovered that I am no longer able to receive a usable signal from ABC (KGO), which joins my existing problems with KPIX (CBS). Ugh... This is going to be a long 6 months!

I think I may need to look into paid options during this transition...

Again, thanks for the updates... If it weren't for these updates, i would be up on my roof fruitlessly re-aiming my antenna!
You might look into Locast. For as little as a $5 a month donation, you lose the nags this way, you can stream your locals.

https://www.locast.org/
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post #17743 of 17780 Old 11-09-2019, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikoi7 View Post
Again tonight at 5pm, KGO Translator RF35 broadcast broke up. The sfbayatsc.koherence.com broadcast monitor shows transport stream sequence errors getting worse around 4:50, then pegged at 9/s around 5pm:

Code:
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:47:00............................................................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:48:00............................................................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:49:00............................................5...............
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:50:0022.....1..1..........4........2............2................
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:51:00.................62.68......1...2...........2...2.2922..4..1
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:52:00.12292.8.985974482.3....2..1..9..6....34..................2.
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:53:00459..5..9992542.9.994.9986399999979999929911.4.4...9.....1..
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:54:00....2.1242.....4....22..2.61.......2...1.22........9........
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:55:00...2.2...7...22......499.4.....2....9.2......9....492.......
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:56:00.....3..........1......92...393224919..........2.98.....4...
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:57:00...2.95......25.48..............2..2.9.2...22.92.22..99997..
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:58:00.24.297.992937874998.799999999999999999949999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 16:59:009999999999499999994999999999998549984972.239.249999987334.69
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:00:0099999999999929999299699749.934999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:01:00999999999999999999999999999999999999199999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:02:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:03:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999994999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:04:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:05:00999999999999922799999998999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:06:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Thu Nov 07 2019 17:07:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
It seems every night this week, it has done this starting around 5-6pm, then recovering in the morning around 7-10am.

Does anyone know if this due to the repack work being done?
As KGO is moving from VC 7 RF 7 to VC 7 RF 12, this means a new transmitter, antenna, feed line work and so on.

As they are replacing so much equipment (At the FCC cost), they may also be replacing the device that puts the streams together. A common device to RF 7 / RF 12 and RF 35. The period sounds like a good test time for new equipment. The microwave / fiber path to Mt. Allison may some equipment upgrades and testing to be done.

They may just using only the RF 35 equipment to test other new equipment and VC 7 RF 7 not involved in the test.

They "might" be getting ready for ATSC 3.0, as least allowing for it later.

It would be interesting to see if RF 7 has the same problem, I will be watching next Monday night NFL game and I will report then. (Go 46'ers)

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 11-09-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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post #17744 of 17780 Old 11-09-2019, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post

Larry
Fog layer tonight to reach 1500'
DX ? Signals ?

Last night @ 11:45 pm KXTV was about double strong as normal.
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post #17745 of 17780 Old 11-09-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
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Fog layer tonight to reach 1500'
DX ? Signals ?

Last night @ 11:45 pm KXTV was about double strong as normal.
I haven't paid that close attention, but KVIE, KXTV and KMAX have all been coming in very well lately. On the other hand, KOVR and KQCA have been lower than normal.

Two stations that have been very weak compared to normal in recent days are KAAP on channel 11 and KSCZ on 20, while KQRO on channel 2 has been solid.

Edit: 12:45 am - I just did a signal check on the Sacramento stations. KVIE is coming in at 26 db SNR, KXTV 20 db, KMAX 17.5 db, KOVR 11 db, KQCA 11 db.

Larry
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post #17746 of 17780 Old 11-09-2019, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
....The microwave / fiber path to Mt. Allison may some equipment upgrades and testing to be done.
I believe you are correct that the feed to Mt. Allison may be the problem. From an RF standpoint RF35 is looking very good. The modulation is fine. It appears to be the bitstream itself that is being coded/modulated that is problematic. I'm sure KGO is already aware of this but have reached out to them also.

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post #17747 of 17780 Old 11-09-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
A

It would be interesting to see if RF 7 has the same problem, I will be watching next Monday night NFL game and I will report then. (Go 46'ers)

SHF
I had also been checking RF7 statistics on koherence and RF7 was normal during all the times RF35 was having these issues. For example:

KGO Translator RF35:
Code:
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:13:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:14:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:15:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:16:00..............................................99999999999999
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:17:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:18:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:19:00999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
KGO RF7:
Code:
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:13:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:14:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:15:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:16:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:17:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:18:00............................................................
Fri Nov 08 2019 17:19:00............................................................
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post #17748 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 12:19 PM
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VHF Antenna Work Here?

I bought my friend this antenna:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000FVVK...ing=UTF8&psc=1


And this is his location:

https://www.antennaweb.org/results


Is he going to have trouble with any low VHF stations?

thx

bob
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post #17749 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
I bought my friend this antenna:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000FVVK...ing=UTF8&psc=1


And this is his location:

https://www.antennaweb.org/results


Is he going to have trouble with any low VHF stations?

thx

bob
KRCB VC 22 RF 5 may be a problem after the repack but as they purchased KCSM VC 60 RF 43 moving to RF 27 after the repack that might not be a problem if they duplicate programming (There are lots of KRCB viewers with no VHF antenna).

Now if they are wishing to receive the stations on RF 2 - RF 4, that may be a huge problem and a different antenna would be needed.

I have no problem receiving RF 7, and RF 12 so receiving RF 13 with my CM4228HD. I am hoping RF 5 from Sutro will not be a problem.

As the location does not come up with his actual location, I suggest using the currently suggested site for the link:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

SHF
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post #17750 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
I bought my friend this antenna

Is he going to have trouble with any low VHF stations?

thx

bob
That antenna will not work at all.

The lower the channel, the bigger the elements.
There is a reason why ch 52 through 83 are now for smartphone use only.
The small antenna element fits inside the phone.

Unfortunately, what must be done is custom build a 9 foot folded dipole antenna for indoors or outdoors.
Or..
Simply purchase a Winegard hd8200u antenna for that purpose.
(Notice the last elements are about 9 feet+ from end to end.
There's no workaround on that size. It's physics of low vhf.

If you currently do not receive channels 2,3, or 4.
(17-1) & (45-1)
It is safe to say you will most likely not receive RF-5 unless you upgrade to large dipole or new antenna.

Or those crappy UHF 4228 antennas will pick it up turned 90 degrees so the screen is 4+ feet from transmitters. Then you just lost all the UHF stations.
Or some other erratic result.
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post #17751 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
KRCB VC 22 RF 5 may be a problem after the repack but as they purchased KCSM VC 60 RF 43 moving to RF 27 after the repack that might not be a problem if they duplicate programming (There are lots of KRCB viewers with no VHF antenna).

Now if they are wishing to receive the stations on RF 2 - RF 4, that may be a huge problem and a different antenna would be needed.

I have no problem receiving RF 7, and RF 12 so receiving RF 13 with my CM4228HD. I am hoping RF 5 from Sutro will not be a problem.

As the location does not come up with his actual location, I suggest using the currently suggested site for the link:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

SHF
Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
That antenna will not work at all.

The lower the channel, the bigger the elements.
There is a reason why ch 52 through 83 are now for smartphone use only.
The small antenna element fits inside the phone.

Unfortunately, what must be done is custom build a 9 foot folded dipole antenna for indoors or outdoors.
Or..
Simply purchase a Winegard hd8200u antenna for that purpose.
(Notice the last elements are about 9 feet+ from end to end.
There's no workaround on that size. It's physics of low vhf.

If you currently do not receive channels 2,3, or 4.
(17-1) & (45-1)
It is safe to say you will most likely not receive RF-5 unless you upgrade to large dipole or new antenna.

Or those crappy UHF 4228 antennas will pick it up turned 90 degrees so the screen is 4+ feet from transmitters. Then you just lost all the UHF stations.
Or some other erratic result.
Well, we hung it on the concrete wall about 15' AGL, ran a scan and got 118 stations Only one we'd like to get is channel 20 that didn't come in.

Foolish report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038b0034632e2



bob
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post #17752 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

I have no problem receiving RF 7, and RF 12 so receiving RF 13 with my CM4228HD. I am hoping RF 5 from Sutro will not be a problem.
SHF
If you use 300 ohm twin-lead wire to connect the CM4228 uhf antenna, it may work.
Provided the wire is pointed to sutro tower and is longer then 9 feet.

For 75 ohm "shielded" cable.
No. No signal on low VHF.
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post #17753 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
If you use 300 ohm twin-lead wire to connect the CM4228 uhf antenna, it may work.
Provided the wire is pointed to sutro tower and is longer then 9 feet.

For 75 ohm "shielded" cable.
No. No signal on low VHF.
Do that in parallel with the coax?

bob
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post #17754 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Do that in parallel with the coax?

bob
In strong signal areas, the unshielded twin lead wire itself acts like a low vhf antenna.

Some FM radios give you a twin-lead "T" folded dipole to use for that purpose.

You can make your own for tv.
Cut, folded, etc for low vhf.
Instructions on the internet.
Folded dipole antenna.
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post #17755 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:26 PM
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I have two CM-4228 antennas and neither one will pick up the low VHF stations, even though I get a 33 dB SNR 100% signal strength and 100% quality from KQSL (RF 4, virtual 17) on Mt. Tam and a solid, but lower 17 dB, 52% signal from KQRO (RF 2, virtual 45) on Loma Prieta Mountain with my HD8200 all band antenna. I've actually been surprised by KQRO since they're a low power station that's 55 miles away.

An antenna will only work reliably for the frequency bands it's made for. The CM4228 just doesn't work for the low VHF channels. KRCB will be moving to Sutro Tower when they change over to channel 5 in the Spring, so you might get the station if you're close enough, but there's no guarantee. You might have to take "888callfcc"'s suggestion and make an antenna cut for low VHF.

Note the length of the long VHF elements on my HD8200U shown at the top of the mast in this picture.

Larry
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Last edited by Larry Kenney; 11-10-2019 at 05:35 PM.
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post #17756 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:35 PM
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I have two CM-4228 antennas and neither one will pick up the low VHF stations, even though I get a 33 dB SNR 100 signal strength and 100% quality from KQSL (RF 4, virtual 17) on Mt. Tam and a solid, but lower 17 dB, 52% signal from KQRO (RF 2, virtual 45) on Loma Prieta Mountain with my HD8200 all band antenna. I've actually been surprised by KQRO since they're a low power station that's 55 miles away.

An antenna will only work reliably for the frequency bands it's made for. The CM4228 just doesn't work for the low VHF channels. KRCB will be moving to Sutro Tower when they change over to channel 5 in the Spring, so you might get the station if you're close enough, but there's no guarantee. You might have to take "888callfcc"'s suggestion and make an antenna cut for low VHF.

Larry
I'm pretty happy pulling in 118 channels mounted on a concrete building wall!

bob
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post #17757 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
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I'm pretty happy pulling in 118 channels mounted on a concrete building wall!

bob
I bet that none of them are transmitting on the low VHF band.

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post #17758 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:53 PM
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I was talking with an engineer from KAXT 1/KTLN 68 (RF 42) last night and they're all ready to go with a new higher powered transmitter and new antenna for their channel change to channel 22. They are planning to make the move in mid-March as soon as the Phase 9 start date occurs.

It's possible that KKPX virtual 65, in phase 8, could move from channel 41 to channel 33 as early as January 18, so watch for announcements after the beginning of the new year. Stations are required to announce their channel changes on air before they move.

Larry

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post #17759 of 17780 Old 11-10-2019, 05:56 PM
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I bet that none of them are transmitting on the low VHF band.
Don't care now. Didn't affect what we need; 2,4,5,7,11,36,44,54,9,60 etc Thought it might.

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post #17760 of 17780 Old 11-13-2019, 07:23 AM
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I was talking with an engineer from KAXT 1/KTLN 68 (RF 42) last night........
Larry
If you find yourself, Larry, chatting with an engineer from HC2 KQRO-45 and KEMO-50, inquire when they are going to resolve their issues in Las Vegas. The control 4 or 5 LPTV station in Vegas, and are ripe with useless colorbars, frozen images, and such. It's been ongoing for the past year when they acquired the stations.

If you have a link to HC2, that would be appreciated, as well.

Will the last subscriber leaving Dish Network please turn off the satellite.
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