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Old 11-27-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post

My reasoning for trying to bring in SF programming is mostly for local news programming, of which I have occasional interest, ...
I suggest that you check out the San Francisco stations web pages, several or even most offer live feeds during their local news broadcasts and offer links to breaking news and archived news. And e-mails with alerts for breaking news I remember.

We have had another viewer not far from you that never had good results a few years ago. I consider that you are on a fools task.

SHF
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:28 PM
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In the words of our president, "we'll see what happens."
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:32 PM
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Quick passing thought. What would you folks estimate the actual non-amplified gain of these cheap antennas (like I currently have) is? I'm thinking a couple DB at most...
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post
Quick passing thought. What would you folks estimate the actual non-amplified gain of these cheap antennas (like I currently have) is? I'm thinking a couple DB at most...

No idea but most on here would not recommend buying it.

Chuck
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:06 AM
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KNTV VC11 RF 12 problems??

Hi...

Over the past few days, the signal for KNTV (VC 11 RF 12) has really dropped off for me. I'm in San Francisco (Inner Sunset) with a rooftop antenna, and while KNTV reception can at times be a bit spotty, it's never dropped off so badly. This morning (Fri, 11/29), it's essentially gone. Does anyone know if they're doing work on the broadcast tower this weekend?

Thanks in advance... Brian
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Old 11-29-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Hi...

Over the past few days, the signal for KNTV (VC 11 RF 12) has really dropped off for me. I'm in San Francisco (Inner Sunset) with a rooftop antenna, and while KNTV reception can at times be a bit spotty, it's never dropped off so badly. This morning (Fri, 11/29), it's essentially gone. Does anyone know if they're doing work on the broadcast tower this weekend?

Thanks in advance... Brian
Have you tried 11.3? Essentially the same programming as 11.1.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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Old 11-29-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Hi...

... Does anyone know if they're doing work on the broadcast tower this weekend?

Thanks in advance... Brian
If not, then they better get cooking, the date that they should start testing is coming up fast.

Phase 9 3/14/2020 5/1/2020

3/14/2020 is when they start testing and 5/1/2020 is when the switch to RF 13 occurs.

During any time starting from several weeks ago to May 1 2020 you may not be able to receive VC 11.1 and VC 11.3 programming during testing.

As KSTS is also being repacked, so VC 11.3 may also be unavailable.

---------------------------
We are trying to get the word out that you may not be able to watch the programs you wish until after 5/1/2020.

We are at the tail end of the repack and if crews / materials are not available on time, the process may even be delayed.

Watch for announcements at 3:13 AM lasting 2 seconds for the latest information.

There is no way to keep up with all the changes / testing and predict if your favorite program can be watched.

The FCC Form 399 is where the stations report how much money they want from the FCC and their quarterly status. But that does not indicate when normal programming is or will be interrupted.

SHF
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Old 11-30-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnwinsf View Post
Hi...

Over the past few days, the signal for KNTV (VC 11 RF 12) has really dropped off for me. I'm in San Francisco (Inner Sunset) with a rooftop antenna, and while KNTV reception can at times be a bit spotty, it's never dropped off so badly. This morning (Fri, 11/29), it's essentially gone. Does anyone know if they're doing work on the broadcast tower this weekend?

Thanks in advance... Brian
Over the past few days ?
The start of our rainy season.

Could possibly be coax cable problem or balun.
Rain water egress into the coax cable shorting it out.
I'd check the waterproofing of the balun, splitters, connectors, etc.

If they are doing transmitter work. It's not noticeable here.
They basically do a good job keeping antenna viewers online.

On the other hand, there are places in the fringe, where using auxillary transmitting antennas could have an impact.

If you are in the metro area, and the signal cuts out when they do work, that means your antenna is barely working to begin with. You have no excess signal margin for a reduced wattage condition.

Usually the case with all indoor antennas. They barely work... to begin with.

So a normal outdoor antenna with 100% signal sees 85 to 90% signal when they work on sutro tower.
A non-issue.

A indoor antenna with 55% signal with sutro tower work now gets 30 to 45% signal.
Break ups & no picture.

I would not wait till next year for signal improvements.
Fix it now.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:17 PM
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Monthly Full Scan for November 30, 2019

Something funny is going on with KTVU RF 44 and RF 26.

RF 44
PROGRAM 4: 2-2 KTVU-SD

RF 26
PROGRAM 4: 2-2 LATV

They should be the same!

SCANNING: 653000000 (us-bcast:44)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=64 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0141
PROGRAM 3: 2-1 KTVU-HD
PROGRAM 4: 2-2 KTVU-SD
PROGRAM 5: 2-3 Movies!
PROGRAM 6: 2-4 Buzzr

RF 40 just popped in again, it comes and goes.

SCANNING: 629000000 (us-bcast:40)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=66 snq=49 seq=100)
TSID: 0x1F87
PROGRAM 1: 40-2 KPOP-TV
PROGRAM 2: 40-1 KPOP-TV

As does RF 39.

SCANNING: 623000000 (us-bcast:39)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=63 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0189
PROGRAM 1: 38-1 SBN
PROGRAM 2: 38-2 Sino TV
PROGRAM 3: 42-1 KTNC
PROGRAM 4: 38-4 Estrell
PROGRAM 5: 38-5 NTD
PROGRAM 7: 50-1 Azteca
PROGRAM 8: 50-2 CRTV
PROGRAM 9: 50-3 Revenue

KRON fixed their TSID, or it just was a data error in the scan last month?

SCANNING: 617000000 (us-bcast:38)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=74 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0179
PROGRAM 3: 4-2 Skylink
PROGRAM 4: 4-1 KRON-TV
PROGRAM 5: 4-3 GetTV
PROGRAM 6: 4-4 CourtTV

Program 5 and 6 were changed ?

Who cares?

SCANNING: 557000000 (us-bcast:28)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=99 snq=81 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0FE5
PROGRAM 1: 28-1 KCNZ
PROGRAM 2: 28-2 HSN
PROGRAM 3: 61-1 KQRM-LD
PROGRAM 4: 20-4 LATV
PROGRAM 5: 28-6 ShopLC
PROGRAM 6: 20-3 ShopHQ
PROGRAM 7: 20-1 KOFY-TV
PROGRAM 8: 20-2 This-TV
PROGRAM 9: 32-1 KMTP
PROGRAM 10: 20-8 FunRoad
PROGRAM 11: 28-3 QuestTV
PROGRAM 12: 20-7 KOFY

See RF 44 above note!

SCANNING: 545000000 (us-bcast:26)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=90 snq=66 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0141
PROGRAM 3: 2-1 KTVU-HD
PROGRAM 4: 2-2 LATV
PROGRAM 5: 2-3 Movies!
PROGRAM 6: 2-4 Buzzr

SHF
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:37 AM
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Channel 20.2, currently broadcasting THIS-TV programming, was broadcasting a blank screen at full power (reception good) at 7:00 am this morning. The picture returned sometime between 7:00 and 8:00 am. The channel label still says THIS-TV, but the detail PSIP info does not reflect "THIS-TV Programming", as has been the case for quite a while.

Coincidentally, I note that 32.1 KMTP is stll labeled as such, but the detail PSIP shows "THIS-TV Programming". The program being broadcast, however, is still the "ARTS" Channel.

Seems change is coming ...

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.

Last edited by RayGuy; 12-02-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Channel 20.2, currently broadcasting THIS-TV programming, was broadcasting a blank screen at full power (reception good) at 7:00 am this morning. The picture returned sometime between 7:00 and 8:00 am. The channel label still says THIS-TV, but the detail PSIP info does not reflect "THIS-TV Programming", as has been the case for quite a while.

Coincidentally, I note that 32.1 KMTP is stll labeled as such, but the detail PSIP shows "THIS-TV Programming". The program being broadcast, however, is still the "ARTS" Channel.

Seems change is coming ...
Don't expect much from KMTP for a long time. They got ~ $70M for taking the station off the air and are now on their latest trip around the world, after the East / West, West / East ship by plane they are repeating the trips on a $20M yacht and then will do the North Pole to South Pole and reverse passing over various lands and then no lands.

But actually I would really like to hear where the money is going.

The FCC awarded them the KMTP license after KQED offered 2 days / year programming for too many years.

They got the station equipment for free.

I stopped bashing them for all their heavy short comings years ago as it no longer was fun.

SHF
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Don't expect much from KMTP for a long time. They got ~ $70M for taking the station off the air and are now on their latest trip around the world, after the East / West, West / East ship by plane they are repeating the trips on a $20M yacht and then will do the North Pole to South Pole and reverse passing over various lands and then no lands.

But actually I would really like to hear where the money is going.

The FCC awarded them the KMTP license after KQED offered 2 days / year programming for too many years.

They got the station equipment for free.

I stopped bashing them for all their heavy short comings years ago as it no longer was fun.

SHF
Hey, they made money, no matter how incompetent that were/are at their jobs. In America, that's seen as a success.

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Don't expect much from KMTP for a long time. They got ~ $70M for taking the station off the air and are now on their latest trip around the world, after the East / West, West / East ship by plane they are repeating the trips on a $20M yacht and then will do the North Pole to South Pole and reverse passing over various lands and then no lands.

But actually I would really like to hear where the money is going.

The FCC awarded them the KMTP license after KQED offered 2 days / year programming for too many years.

They got the station equipment for free.

I stopped bashing them for all their heavy short comings years ago as it no longer was fun.

SHF
I don't think there was anything attached to the payment to KMTP from the FCC for turning off their transmitter. They could do whatever they wanted with the payment. They could use it for a slow boat to China if they wanted. LOL

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Old 12-02-2019, 05:24 PM
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In the latest monthly newsletter from the WTFDA, where station changes are noted, both KPIX and KRON are operating on STAs at half power until the antenna work is completed on Sutro Tower. Also, KGO, as most of you know, and KBCW are operating on their auxiliary antennas while their main antennas are being replaced for their new re-pack channels. So if you're having reception problems with 4, 5, 7 and/or 44, you know why. There might be other changes going on too, that I don't know about.

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Old 12-02-2019, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Hey, they made money, no matter how incompetent that were/are at their jobs. In America, that's seen as a success.
In the longest of time I googled KMTP. Their webpage looks flashy but has little information.

Their programs:
  • Classic Arts Showcase, free from Satellite for any station or cable network that wants to air it.
  • DW TV (Deutsch Welle), from Germany, free from Satellite for any station or cable network that wants to air it. I actually watched one program (in Focus) but had to give up as I could not tell when it would be on the air. Gracenote asked for accurate program listings per my request, KMTP did not respond in any way despite repeated e-mail, letters, phone calls …
  • NASA TV, free from Satellite for any station or cable network that wants to air it.
  • K-Pop programs and Chinese news and dramas, free from Satellite for any station or cable network that wants to air it.

Their webpage still has VC 32 RF 33 as their source.

Quote:
We will build on unique strengths to engage and inspire underrepresented faculties and students. By 2030, we will develop a 1000-student campus and graduate 50-plus science doctorate students annually to catalyze artificial intelligence to remedy or alleviate critical faults on issues affecting minority education, culture, enterprise and families. We will create a pipeline of STEM students from pre-school through college, relying in part on home schooling and selective online high schools, such as Stanford Online High School.
Wow, perhaps that's where the money is going. 2030, 50-plus doctorate students.

They sure are not trying to operate a Television Station as their main activity. If you get $70M you can think big.

SHF
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kkpm View Post
.
11:45pm Tuesday night.
No programming 17-1 thru 17-10
Transmitter on here with 100% signal level.
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:29 PM
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i was dimly aware that there was maintenance going on at sutro recently... is this still the case?

although my reception is sometimes somewhat weather dependent, the last couple of days i'm really having trouble with physical 30... however, other UHF channels also on sutro are coming in loud and clear. has KQED's antenna been moved to a temporary low-power situation?

i pretty much have line-of-sight to sutro from here on the berkeley/oakland border so sutro stations are normally pretty easy to RX... any ideas?

thanks
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblough View Post
i was dimly aware that there was maintenance going on at sutro recently... is this still the case?

although my reception is sometimes somewhat weather dependent, the last couple of days i'm really having trouble with physical 30... however, other UHF channels also on sutro are coming in loud and clear. has KQED's antenna been moved to a temporary low-power situation?

i pretty much have line-of-sight to sutro from here on the berkeley/oakland border so sutro stations are normally pretty easy to RX... any ideas?

thanks
I cannot see myself, Larry has seen and taken pictures, one that was posted up this thread.

There are arms being taken down and arms to go up in their place.

Antennas, feed lines, transmitters, exciters, AC units and all other types of equipment arriving daily and perhaps might not meet the planned date that viewers need to rescan their HDTV sets. (5/1/2020)

Take a look at the Tower before any work was started.

https://sutrotower.com/about-the-tower/

The arm with KGO and KBCW has been taken down was seen by Larry.

The arm with KPIX, KRON and KTVU likely has been replaced or soon will be. (KOFY is gone of course!)

I can report that KTVU VC 2 RF 44 is so hard for me to receive that I have needed to switch to KTVU VC 2 RF 26 from Mt. Allison.

The last arm has KQED, KCNS, KFSF and KPJK (was KCSM).

Those stations may have shifted to their AUX antennas due to construction requirements.

Note, some of the arms going back up antennas can be tested but stations cannot switch to their new RF frequencies until next year.

Tune in at 3:13 AM for a two second announcement of changes.

-----------------------------

So, it can be said with some certainly that most or all of Sutro's stations are on their AUX antennas which are shown lower on the tower.

KRON and KPIX have gotten permission from the FCC to mount and use antennas a little higher up. Some stations can use the new antennas as their RF frequency is not changing, others may also if their new RF frequency is not in use.

SHF
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:04 PM
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thanks... OK that might explain it, if KQED happens to be on its AUX antenna. hard to disentangle the weather from everything going on at sutro. based on bad recordings this has been going on for me for about 24h now.

now i remember why i heard about these changes... there was probably something on HDTV-in-SFbay a while back and then jef poskanzer posted a photo of a reconfigured sutro the other day to his twitter account.
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblough View Post
thanks... OK that might explain it, if KQED happens to be on its AUX antenna. hard to disentangle the weather from everything going on at sutro. based on bad recordings this has been going on for me for about 24h now.

now i remember why i heard about these changes... there was probably something on HDTV-in-SFbay a while back and then jef poskanzer posted a photo of a reconfigured sutro the other day to his twitter account.
Any chance you can capture that bird and have it tweet here, Larry posted one blurry picture.

Is Twin Peaks blocked off such there is no place to take good pictures of Sutro. I looked at the start of 245 photos and it looks like there is. The last time for me was pre Sutro Tower and my camera was focused 180 away as the sun set and the bay changed color.

We need more pictures.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 12-05-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:04 PM
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Any chance you can capture that bird and have it tweet here, Larry posted one blurry picture.

Is Twin Peaks blocked off such there is no place to take good pictures of Sutro. I looked at the start of 245 photos and it looks like there is. The last time for me was pre Suter Tower and my camera was focused 180 away as the sun set and the bay changed color.

We need more pictures.

SHF
took me a bit but i found it, it was sometime back...

https://twitter.com/jef_poskanzer/st...79794670788608

although i think the 3rd photo is photoshopped (missing 2 towers) as it seems to have been in response to a joke.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblough View Post
took me a bit but i found it, it was sometime back...

https://twitter.com/jef_poskanzer/st...79794670788608

although i think the 3rd photo is photoshopped (missing 2 towers) as it seems to have been in response to a joke.
Great pictures and having then dated is a tremendous plus.

Keep them coming.

----------------------
I do think that having two arms down at the same time is suspicious, zooming in very strongly suggests that the right most arm has been artificially cut off.

Photoshopped for sure and very poorly done. Can a report be made about the poster making False News?

SHF
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:59 PM
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Sutro November 20, 2019

I like the clarity of this one.

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Old 12-06-2019, 11:58 AM
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well an update on my problem - haven't been able to find out if KQED is on the backup transmitter but they do have a note on their status page that they are getting reports of problems (at least in november) due to the sutro maintenance project.

anyway my antenna is in the attic of a 2 story house and because i want to pull in KRCB i'm actually receiving the sutro stations off of a side lobe of the antenna. so i went up there and rotated the antenna a little in the direction of sutro and things improved (compromised KRCB signal a strength a tad but it's still ok.) maybe there is a tree out there growing up into the way and wet with the rain.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblough View Post
well an update on my problem - haven't been able to find out if KQED is on the backup transmitter but they do have a note on their status page that they are getting reports of problems (at least in november) due to the sutro maintenance project.

anyway my antenna is in the attic of a 2 story house and because i want to pull in KRCB i'm actually receiving the sutro stations off of a side lobe of the antenna. so i went up there and rotated the antenna a little in the direction of sutro and things improved (compromised KRCB signal a strength a tad but it's still ok.) maybe there is a tree out there growing up into the way and wet with the rain.
You'll be able to turn your antenna for complete coverage of Sutro Tower service at the end of April as KRCB is moving its transmitter from Sonoma Mountain to Sutro when they change their transmit channel for the re-pack. The only problem you might have is that they're moving to channel 5 on the low VHF band. Most high VHF/UHF antennas don't work well on low VHF, so you might have to get a new antenna. You won't know how well you'll receive them, though, until they change.

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Lots of Broadcasting links and information: http://www.larrykenney.com/broadcast.html
Live reception scans from my HD Home Run receivers: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/
Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
You'll be able to turn your antenna for complete coverage of Sutro Tower service at the end of April as KRCB is moving its transmitter from Sonoma Mountain to Sutro when they change their transmit channel for the r-pack. The only problem you might have is that they're moving to channel 5 on the low VHF band. Most high VHF/UHF antennas don't work well on low VHF, so you might have to get a new antenna. You won't know how well you'll receive them, though, until they change.
oh! that is great news. i have not been following the repack carefully and did not know this.

i can't remember the exact model of my antenna but it is one of the larger channel masters. i guess i'll find out...
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Old Yesterday, 12:25 AM
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The money math of KRCB.

There is a letter that explains that KRCB had the only choice to move to RF 5 to get the maximum payout except for going off the air.

I the FCC payment was $ 72M. I think like many PBS stations across the USA, they took the maximum money they could and in some cases went off the air. Shoestring stations with no shoes and no string.

As far as moving to Sutro, the letter says there were NO sites where they could put up a RF 5 transmitter in the North Bay.

So, they purchase KCSM for $12M and it will be repacked to RF 27, thus they have an option on UHF for their programs. Thus the viewers without a VHF-Lo antenna may (Depending if channels are replicated) still be able to receive their programming.

It will be very interesting in May to see what the programming on KRCB and KPJK will be. For now, they are separate stations. Time will tell how many complaints they get from viewers that cannot get RF 5 and refuse to pay their pledges.

And what KQED and PBS will say to two stations on Sutro with their programming.

KQED is tier one, the highest for broadcasting PBS programs first.

I think KRCB is tier three, a long delay compared with KQED.

KRCB has been spending a lot of the money on better programming.

KPJK (KCSM) signed off PBS programs years ago.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; Yesterday at 03:25 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by joeblough View Post
... haven't been able to find out if KQED is on the backup transmitter …
The correct answer is they are using their AUX antenna down low on Sutro.

With all the forklifts going in and out of Sutro with transmitters, the crews drilling new concrete holes for new cables, filling old holes as they are no longer needed it might be that some times stations need to use their backup transmitter at times.

I have yet to see any reports that stations changing their RF frequency has not opted for new FCC paid transmitters.

SHF
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