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post #17821 of 17968 Old 12-10-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
No program ... No dove tv... No CMC.... ugh !!!

I need a reset button on my remote for this...lol

This happened last Sunday too.

Thanks! I am changing the way KQSL-LD is fed to be fed via internet using the Wireless Internet Provider at Mt. Tamalpais. So, I'll be going there to work on the stations. Also, I've been having trouble with my Comcast modems to feed KKPM-CD, so I'm getting fiber internet at the One Ministries, Inc. studio in Santa Rosa. Sorry for the delay in answering. Life's been crazy. Things are at last moving forward on KDTS-LD RF 14 on Sutro with a tentative turn-on date around March 14th.


Blessings,
Keith
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post #17822 of 17968 Old 12-10-2019, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpm View Post
Things are at last moving forward on KDTS-LD RF 14 on Sutro with a tentative turn-on date around March 14th.

Blessings,
Keith
Most of channel 17 is back online. Although Blues channel 17-5 is frozen image. As I write this and has been frozen along time.

Not to worried about KDTS. More into the "hard to solve" problems like if KRCB 5 is too strong and bleeds over to RF-4 here. As all the VHF full power sutro stations do.
Not something I would want to deal with.

Ben
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post #17823 of 17968 Old 12-10-2019, 11:18 PM
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KTVU, OAKLAND, CA CH 31 may be delayed

REQUEST FOR AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION
CONSTRUCTION PERMIT FILE NUMBER 0000059954
KTVU, OAKLAND, CA
CP: CH 31, 1000 kW (EP), DIRECTIONAL, 512 M HAAT

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6eeccdaf1f59fc

If one is delayed, will there be many delayed?

SHF
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post #17824 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
If one is delayed, will there be many delayed?

Others might be delayed due to their own issues - weather, availability of tower crews, etc. - but KTVU's delay won't impact anyone else, other than whatever wireless company bought the spectrum currently occupied by RF channel 44.


Now, if KGO were delayed, that would affect KRON, and a KNTV delay would affect both KGO and KRON, because KRON can't move from RF 38 to RF 7 until KGO moves from RF 7 to RF 12, and KGO can't move until KNTV moves from RF 12 to RF 13.
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post #17825 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dhett View Post
...but KTVU's delay won't impact anyone else, other than whatever wireless company bought the spectrum currently occupied by RF channel 44.
As it turns out, Dish owns the block that RF channel 44 is in. They're probably not likely to build it out anytime soon, but that may change if the T-Mobile/Sprint merger happens. T-Mobile owns channels 39 and 40, and they'll probably build out fairly quickly.

You can see who bought what frequencies here.

https://specmap.sequence-omega.net/

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #17826 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 05:41 PM
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Just wanted to provide an update on my little antenna experiment of trying to receive the Sutro stations from the west side of the Central Valley, northwest of Tracy. I installed a HDB91x antenna and preamp, and I'm receiving several of the UHF stations with varying degrees of reliability. KPIX 5 (29) is the most reliable with the occasional quick dropout, followed by KBCW (45). The other stations are less reliable, depending on the time of day and the weather conditions. It is interesting that I can receive full signal strength from KPIX while at the same time receiving little or no signal from KRON and KTVU which are broadcasting from the same antenna. Fingers crossed that KTVU is more reliable over the mountains once it moves down to channel 31.

I notice that my signal strength on many of the channels is widely fluctuating all over the place (multipath or just a feature of knife-edge signals?)... I'm thinking that I may try raising the antenna another 5 feet and see what happens. I have yet to add a VHF antenna to my setup, but will be curious to see how KGO, KRON and KNTV (post-repack) do on the VHF side.

EDIT: I see that apparently many of these channels are at half-power during the week... I'll have to check again over the weekend.

Last edited by cybertoad1; 12-11-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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post #17827 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post
...
EDIT: I see that apparently many of these channels are at half-power during the week... I'll have to check again over the weekend.
You may have to wait until far into next year when all of Sutro is on the "new" antennas on the top of the monstrosity.

I just posted that the stations are on the AUX antennas low down on the tower, not on lower transmitter power in most cases.

Some people on the fringes of the normal reception area may have problems.

When a station reduces the power they must tell the FCC.
If they want to use a different antenna (Other that the AUX antennas) they must tell the FCC.
They need not tell the FCC if they are using the AUX antennas as they have been documented to the FCC before.

There are several requests approved for special antennas and at least one pending for one.
KPIX has a 50% power reduction request approved, but that may have expired.

It's the antennas being changed, not the transmitters unless there is a RF channel change.


SHF
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post #17828 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 07:44 PM
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I was going off of the press release from KQED. "We are aware that some over-the-air viewers are experiencing issues receiving the KQED 9 and KQED Plus signals from Sutro Tower. This issue is likely being caused by technical work to Sutro Tower that is being performed by their engineers. During the course of this maintenance, the signal is being broadcast at half strength during weekdays and at full power on the weekends. This maintenance may last through the end of December. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. Please return to this page for progress updates."


https://helpcenter.kqed.org/s/articl...d-to-my-signal
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post #17829 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post
I was going off of the press release from KQED. "We are aware that some over-the-air viewers are experiencing issues receiving the KQED 9 and KQED Plus signals from Sutro Tower. This issue is likely being caused by technical work to Sutro Tower that is being performed by their engineers. During the course of this maintenance, the signal is being broadcast at half strength during weekdays and at full power on the weekends. This maintenance may last through the end of December. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. Please return to this page for progress updates."


https://helpcenter.kqed.org/s/articl...d-to-my-signal
Well, if they are really at half power then the reporting and approval of the FCC requirement may have been misunderstood by me based on the KPIX filing and many other filings.

But it is really unlikely "the signal is being broadcast at half strength during weekdays and at full power on the weekends".

KQED is on the last arm to be worked on and the work can't be done on that schedule.

Reports about Sutro are sparse and intermittent, the last picture was "November 20, 2019" showing that the first arm was still being replaced, the middle and right arms yet to come, assuming they will be done in that order.

Now, there is a lot of work being downstairs in the transmitter room and also on the transmitter feeds up the tower. So that might be done on the weekdays and not on the weekends. I just don't believe that, they are likely working 24/7 when they can. Tower crews and transmitter installers are mentioned in the recent post as being in short supply as well as equipment.

--------------------------------------

I really think "Red" was misquoted or an attempt was made to over simplify what is going on Sutro.

Assuming Red is still in charge.

SHF
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post #17830 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 08:51 PM
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From Larry Kenney a few posts back: In the latest monthly newsletter from the WTFDA, where station changes are noted, both KPIX and KRON are operating on STAs at half power until the antenna work is completed on Sutro Tower. Also, KGO, as most of you know, and KBCW are operating on their auxiliary antennas while their main antennas are being replaced for their new re-pack channels. So if you're having reception problems with 4, 5, 7 and/or 44, you know why. There might be other changes going on too, that I don't know about. That makes it sound like half-power is the current operating state until the permanent antennas are activated.

On a related issue, I'm glad to see that KTVU apparently abandoned their application for a permanent post-repack reduction to 750 kW from 1,000 kW.
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post #17831 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post
From Larry Kenney a few posts back: In the latest monthly newsletter from the WTFDA, where station changes are noted, both KPIX and KRON are operating on STAs at half power until the antenna work is completed on Sutro Tower. Also, KGO, as most of you know, and KBCW are operating on their auxiliary antennas while their main antennas are being replaced for their new re-pack channels. So if you're having reception problems with 4, 5, 7 and/or 44, you know why. There might be other changes going on too, that I don't know about. That makes it sound like half-power is the current operating state until the permanent antennas are activated.

On a related issue, I'm glad to see that KTVU apparently abandoned their application for a permanent post-repack reduction to 750 kW from 1,000 kW.
I think there is a massive lack of information and bad quotes trying to simplify the work being done and how viewers are being affected by just about everyone. The work schedule and plans are changing rapidly due to so very many parts involved and stations wanting their work to be put at the head of the line, or cannot be done due to no qualified workers or needed parts.

I had one chance to save a copy of the Sutro Master Plan and I blew it. That was very long ago and it must have changed massively since then.

The most interesting attachments sent to the FCC I cannot see, and I did not take the time to read the San Francisco Planning Commission Approval documents. If you read the Form399 you would be amazed what the FCC is paying stations for.

Anyone trying to learn what their reception will be in the future is on a fools errand IMHO. Until after it is completed next year and additional needed changes are done. Sutro rebuild is a very complex project. Changing all three arms putting new antennas up, new feedlines, new transmitters, new AC, new power connections, removing old equipment, drilling new holes in the concrete, patching old unneeded holes, the list goes on and on.

You just stick a piece of metal up into the air and connect it to your HDTV and if you get the program you wish, great.

That's what I am doing and I do expect to miss some programs. But then I have ~ 1.5TB of programs to watch on my N.A.S. and USB 1TB drives.

Remember, OTA viewers are a VERY SMALL part of station viewers, we don't count for very much in what the stations receive. And can be expected to not be stations priority thusly.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 12-11-2019 at 10:51 PM.
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post #17832 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybertoad1 View Post
Tracy. I installed a HDB91x antenna

I notice that my signal strength on many of the channels is widely fluctuating all over the place (multipath or just a feature of knife-edge
That is a good directional antenna.

Your location is on the fringes of the Fresno tv market. As well.
If those stations are using the same UHF/VHF channels as San Francisco, something to check.

Go to www.tvfool.com
And note any Fresno channels in the NM column (noise margin).
Anything "0" zero or above could be receivable there.
A final step would be to turn your antenna setup to the Fresno tv market antenna farm and see what shows up. And on what channel.
Note any same-channel conflicts with San Francisco stations.

This is kind of a temporary situation until the repack channel assignments kick in next year. So testing later would be more key.

Moving the antenna up higher does not always make things better.
You could get more Fresno market & less San Francisco market.

The VHF channels will be easier to get then the UHF ones.
Especially long distances.

As a sidenote on the Fresno tv market.
Driving the 580 freeway (Dublin) grade area. You can pick up KSKS-FM 93.7. "kicks country" from Fresno.
But it only works for 1 mile on the dublin grade facing Fresno.
So yes, its possible with some locations.
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post #17833 of 17968 Old 12-11-2019, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 888CALLFCC View Post
...

Go to www.tvfool.com
...
Very Bad Idea!!! It is not being updated at all. It's information is very much out of date.

Use:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

It has up to date information inputted directed from the FCC files.

SHF
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post #17834 of 17968 Old 12-12-2019, 11:58 AM
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Very Bad Idea!!! It is not being updated at all. It's information is very much out of date.

Use:

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

It has up to date information inputted directed from the FCC files.

SHF
Yes, TV Fool is terribly out of date. It doesn't even have KGO-TV in its database.
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post #17835 of 17968 Old 12-13-2019, 11:05 PM
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The KRON / KGO / KNTV dance document filed

KGO has said the obvious, When KRON starts testing it will require KGO to cease transmitting on RF 7.

Further more, KGO will use the RF 7 antenna installed for KRON until the rescan date at times.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...1005c&goBack=N

KRON I discovered has filed for lower transmitter power as Larry posted.

KNTV I thought had filed for replacing the antenna on top of the tower with a RF 13 one, but it does not pop up in the search.

It was KSTS that I saw affecting RF 11.3

It is very hard to keep up with who is going to use what antenna when.

Oh to have a recent copy of the master plan for the Sutro rebuild.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 12-13-2019 at 11:56 PM.
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post #17836 of 17968 Old 12-14-2019, 01:25 AM
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Remember, OTA viewers are a VERY SMALL part of station viewers, we don't count for very much in what the stations receive. And can be expected to not be stations priority thusly.

SHF
You might be surprised by the recent report about OTA viewing by antenna. More and more people are dropping cable and satellite service and are switching to antenna usage or viewing TV via the internet with Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, Sling TV, HBO Now, Amazon Prime Video, Pluto TV, etc. According to the latest report I read, OTA viewing using an antenna is now done by 40% of the viewing public with 22% using internet services.

Larry
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Last edited by Larry Kenney; 12-14-2019 at 01:32 AM.
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post #17837 of 17968 Old 12-14-2019, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
You might be surprised by the recent report about OTA viewing by antenna. More and more people are dropping cable and satellite service and are switching to antenna usage or viewing TV via the internet with Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, Sling TV, HBO Now, Amazon Prime Video, Pluto TV, etc. According to the latest report I read, OTA viewing using an antenna is now done by 40% of the viewing public with 22% using internet services.

Larry
I can understand old folks like me watching OTA more, but the people new to TV will be using streaming services more and more and old folks like me, well count me out in a few years.

Surely you do not count folks "viewing TV via the internet with Netflix, Hulu, You Tube, Sling TV, HBO Now, Amazon Prime Video, Pluto TV, etc" in the OTA numbers. They are all "internet services".

The sky warmers will be turned off sooner that many people think. I don't expect to see that day, but it is coming.

Your post just does not compute for me. "wishful thinking" by a old transmitter jockey perhaps.

SHF
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post #17838 of 17968 Old 12-15-2019, 08:13 AM
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Question Recommend an OTA rooftop antenna for Tiburon, CA?

We have an old rooftop antenna on our little clubhouse at 400 Trinidad Dr. that worked fine, then about 5 yrs ago someone decided to disconnect and install a Satellite dish for Directv. Now 5 yrs later we want to go back to OTA and this same antenna that used to receive all the major network channels plus about 80 others, but now only receives two useful network stations: 7.1 ABC KGO and 11.1 NBC KNTV. Any advice on how to get this working again? We would like to receive in addition to ABC and NBC, Fox, CBS and PBS.

Thank you,
Sue
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post #17839 of 17968 Old 12-15-2019, 12:38 PM
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You might be surprised by the recent report about OTA viewing by antenna.

Our household was part of a Nielsen survey about six weeks ago. They phoned us, wanting to know which streaming services we use, and were surprised when we said, "the one with the antenna".
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post #17840 of 17968 Old 12-15-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan Woodrum View Post
We have an old rooftop antenna on our little clubhouse at 400 Trinidad Dr. that worked fine, then about 5 yrs ago someone decided to disconnect and install a Satellite dish for Directv. Now 5 yrs later we want to go back to OTA and this same antenna that used to receive all the major network channels plus about 80 others, but now only receives two useful network stations: 7.1 ABC KGO and 11.1 NBC KNTV. Any advice on how to get this working again? We would like to receive in addition to ABC and NBC, Fox, CBS and PBS.

Thank you,
Sue
If it just was 5 years then the UHF part may have failed (Fog?).

Can you post a picture to rule out satellite installer vandalism which does happen a lot. Just a cut in the right place or just a bend of a metal piece is all that it takes.

At this point in time it is best to plan for changes upcoming in the next few months.

Larry has lists for now and for the near future, but not when you cannot receive programs due to transmitters off the air, testing on new RF channels …

Re-Pack Channel Digital/HDTV Television Channel List - SF Bay Area https://larrykenney.com/sfonair3.html

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html

See his post just above for all his links.

SHF

Last edited by SFischer1; 12-15-2019 at 06:26 PM.
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post #17841 of 17968 Old 12-19-2019, 08:28 AM
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I believe that 50.2 has, or will soon, change(d) to English language Be In Sports Network.

Will the last subscriber leaving Dish Network please turn off the satellite.
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post #17842 of 17968 Old 12-19-2019, 02:00 PM
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NorCal Public Media looking for chief engineer

FYI:


"Northern California Public Media (NorCal) seeks a Director of Engineering. Based in Sonoma County, CA, NorCal serves the San Francisco Bay region. Comprised of two public television stations, KRCB and KPJK, and one public radio station, KRCB FM, NorCal offers PBS and NPR programming to the community."



https://norcalpublicmedia.org/employ...cid=cfe6d803fb
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post #17843 of 17968 Old 12-19-2019, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintertime View Post
FYI:


"Northern California Public Media (NorCal) seeks a Director of Engineering. Based in Sonoma County, CA, NorCal serves the San Francisco Bay region. Comprised of two public television stations, KRCB and KPJK, and one public radio station, KRCB FM, NorCal offers PBS and NPR programming to the community."



https://norcalpublicmedia.org/employ...cid=cfe6d803fb
Good! Maybe the next guy can get the picture on 60.1 during prime time into the correct aspect ratio ....
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post #17844 of 17968 Old 12-20-2019, 05:53 PM
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Eric Dausman, Manager of Sutro Tower, posted the following on Facebook in the "I Take Pictures of Transmitter Sites" group.

Larry

The south stack at Sutro Tower is now being reconstructed. After about two months of slowly demolishing the old steel and antennas, the new stronger lattice structure is going back up. About 100 feet of new lattice tower will hold up two new VHF antennas for Channels 7 and 12.

They crew is leaving for Christmas break, but they will be back in January. We expect this work will be done by the end of January a full three months in advance of our deadline for Phase 8 and 9.
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post #17845 of 17968 Old 12-20-2019, 06:04 PM
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From a Rabbitears.info update: KBCW will be adding sub-channel 44.5 and KMAX, Sacramento, will be adding 31.5 for new Circle Network programming coming soon.

My complete SF Bay Area DTV Station Lists: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html
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post #17846 of 17968 Old 12-20-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney View Post
Eric Dausman, Manager of Sutro Tower, posted the following on Facebook in the "I Take Pictures of Transmitter Sites" group.

Larry

The south stack at Sutro Tower is now being reconstructed. After about two months of slowly demolishing the old steel and antennas, the new stronger lattice structure is going back up. About 100 feet of new lattice tower will hold up two new VHF antennas for Channels 7 and 12.

They crew is leaving for Christmas break, but they will be back in January. We expect this work will be done by the end of January a full three months in advance of our deadline for Phase 8 and 9.
I was wondering about the names of the two other stacks, as one is "South" Google Earth should allow me to find the other directions.

I did not get what I expected!

No editing of the Google Earth image was done!

SHF

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Last edited by SFischer1; 12-20-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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post #17847 of 17968 Old 12-21-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
I was wondering about the names of the two other stacks, as one is "South" Google Earth should allow me to find the other directions.

I did not get what I expected!

No editing of the Google Earth image was done!

SHF

Running up against the resolution capabilities of the satellite here. Looks disembodied ...

It's a VIRTUAL channel unless stated otherwise.
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post #17848 of 17968 Old 12-21-2019, 12:19 PM
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I believe that 50.2 has, or will soon, change(d) to English language Be In Sports Network.
I think it switched. I read online that BeIn was coming to the Bay Area today and turned on the television to find out where it is.
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post #17849 of 17968 Old 12-28-2019, 08:51 PM
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Keith
You already know what this posting is...lol
Hint.. hint..17 re-boot.

Got to manually plug in a temporary antenna for ch 45-x
See if I can watch the dove there.
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post #17850 of 17968 Old 12-28-2019, 09:36 PM
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Keith
Back online. 8:36pm
Thanks !!!
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