Rochester, MN - HDTV - Page 116 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3451 of 3533 Old 03-21-2016, 06:03 PM
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A 60 foot tower would look out of place in my neighborhood, especially with a quad array on top. I agree it would do the job.

The problem I have is that the reception is good (Channel 47) for a few seconds to several minutes and then breaks up. It sort of looks like interference.

Also the problem appears to happen when it is windy.

In the last few months I have only watched the NASCAR races on Sunday afternoon. Channel 47 (Fox) was crap for the first few races which were on windy days and the last couple of races were fine and were calm days. Also Channel 47 cleared up on the bad days when the wind went down later in the day.

It sounds like a 91XG is 2 to 3 db better then my 9032 and a Kitztech KT-200 would be a better amp. Neither is very expensive.
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post #3452 of 3533 Old 03-21-2016, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsas View Post
The problem I have is that the reception is good (Channel 47) for a few seconds to several minutes and then breaks up. It sort of looks like interference.

Also the problem appears to happen when it is windy.

In the last few months I have only watched the NASCAR races on Sunday afternoon. Channel 47 (Fox) was crap for the first few races which were on windy days and the last couple of races were fine and were calm days. Also Channel 47 cleared up on the bad days when the wind went down later in the day.
You're dealing with dynamic multipath interference. Which is the bane of the current ATSC standard. In a few years (unless of course they sell off the whole TV spectrum) we'll be on ATSC 3.0 which is immune to dynamic multipath.

I know that newer tuners handle dynamic multipath better than older models. Don't know if that's applicable or not.

The key is to get the tightest pickup pattern possible in order to maximize the direct:reflected signal ratio. Obviously, dial in that rotor as best you can. And according to these models (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html), the 91XG has a little bit tighter pattern and higher f/b ratio than the 9032, plus another 1.5db gain at ch. 46. Swapping to a Kitztech could get you another 2db.
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post #3453 of 3533 Old 04-03-2016, 01:32 PM
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I know this is way off subject but from what I read ATSC 3.0 will not be compatible with the current standard.
That means that all current ATSC devices will go dark. I suppose there will be some sort of converter box to allow current devices to work with the new standard.
Since most people are satisfied with the current standard it may be a hard sell for ATSC 3.0 unless there is a good reason to change.
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post #3454 of 3533 Old 04-03-2016, 02:03 PM
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The current ATSC standard is actually MASSIVELY out of date.

First off, it uses MPEG 2 and Dolby Digital compression - codecs that were state-of-the-art in 1993. The current industry standard, h.265 is massively (orders of magnitude) more efficient. With h.265, stations can broadcast in 4k and/or offer more subchannels.

Secondly (and probably most importantly), the current ATSC standard uses 8VSB modulation which is very sensitive to dynamic multipath (trees, planes, etc). ATSC 3 uses COFDM which is essentially immune to multipath. This would eliminate issues with trees and airplane. Plus, one could view ATSC 3 in the car.

Converter boxes could conceivably look like a ROKU HDMI dongle. And probably cost something like $50.

With the FCC's whole spectrum buyback deal going on, there's legitimate question as to whether we'll even see OTA TV continuing long enough for ATSC 3 to even be implemented.
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post #3455 of 3533 Old 06-01-2016, 03:01 PM
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I finally did something and got both the Kitztech KT-200 and 91XG. The Kitz came first and it made a big difference! I don't know whether the Kitz is that good or the old Archer amp was that bad.
A few days later the 91XG came and when I put it up I got nothing, no reception. It turns out the power supply on the Kitz went bad, just when I put up the new antenna. A $90 dollar amp with a two cent power supply.
The 91XG did not make enough difference that I could say it is better then the old Winegard 9032. Actually I started with a DB8 which probably is close the both the 91XG and 9032.
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post #3456 of 3533 Old 06-01-2016, 03:12 PM
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I'd call up Kitztech and get them to ship you a new one ASAP.

It's probably that your Archer was, indeed, that bad.
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post #3457 of 3533 Old 06-01-2016, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
Looking at the TVFool report, it looks like Rochester stations are your only option due to geography. KIMT (CBS) and KYIN (Iowa PBS) are getting rather weak, so you will need a decent antenna.

Denny's HD Stacker is a legit antenna, but it's a complete rippoff at that price. And you could get a better performing antenna for less than half the cost.

I'd go with an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp, available at Menards for $20 which is on par with an LNA-200. Set it to separate UHF/VHF inputs and keep the FM trap on. Preamp will cover your splitter and cable losses with plenty of margin to spare.

The best antenna for the money would be:
-Stellar Labs Deep Fringe UHF antenna ($39): http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2415-/30-2415

-Stellar Labs Fringe VHF-Hi antenna ($25):http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2475-/30-2475

I'd always err on the side of having too much antenna rather than too little. And I don't think a Flatwave would cut it.

Mount with a 3ft tripod and 1 1/4" EMT conduit (also available from Menards). I attached a picture of that stack on a 10ft mast. You could probably cut yours down to 5ft.

(I did a retrofit install with those same two antennas about a mile west, up the hill from P.I. Very well constructed and they got TCs very well).

Put the UHF on top and the VHF-Hi about 3ft below it. Aim the UHF at KIMT/KYIN (184) and the VHF-Hi at KTTC (167).

Your available channel lineup should be:


3.1 CBS
3.2 MyNet
3.3 ION


6.1 ABC
6.2 ThisTV


10.1 NBC
10.2 CW
10.3 Heroes & Icons


15.1 PBS
15.2 MHZ Worldview
15.3 Create
15.4 tpt MN


24.1 PBS
24.2 PBS Kids/Create
24.3 PBS World


47.1 FOX
47.2 MeTV


58.1 3ABN
58.2 3ABN Proclaim
58.3 3ABN Dare to Dream
58.4 3ABN Latino
58.5 3ABN Radio
58.6 3ABN Radio Latino
58.7 Radio 74
Quick update on my situation, I did everything you told me to do and it all works like a charm. Only ones I can't get are the channel 24 pbs stations. I get the CBS station which is the same direction as pbs and same distance. Not sure why it's not coming in. Maybe I need to fine tune where it is pointing. I did the 2" emt conduit over top my DTV mount cut at 5.5 ft. Went up easier than I thought it would. Thanks for the advice! I owe you a cold one.
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post #3458 of 3533 Old 06-01-2016, 03:55 PM
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I'd like to see a pic of it if you don't mind.

3 and 24 are on the same tower. 3 broadcasts 800kW omnidirectional at 1520ft. 24 is 1473ft and 533kw, but they've got weird oval pattern that puts you right on the fringe. http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1316563&map=Y

For contrast, here's 3: http://rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1304426&map=Y

The TVFool for your location puts 24 5db below 3.

Is the UHF antenna pointed directly at 3/24? You could swap the UHF for a 91XG or clone which could give you a few extra db of gain: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2370-/30-2370
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post #3459 of 3533 Old 06-01-2016, 04:19 PM
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Yeah from what I can tell it is pointing at 184 degrees. Used phone compass.
Pic:
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/sh...c2W5PyvbaYorSc
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post #3460 of 3533 Old 06-02-2016, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
3 and 24 are on the same tower. 3 broadcasts 800kW omnidirectional at 1520ft. 24 is 1473ft and 533kw, but they've got weird oval pattern that puts you right on the fringe.
To answer the inevitable "why do they have a weird oval pattern" question that I'm sure will come up recall that WQOW in Eau Claire was channel 18 in analog, while KYIN digital is also on 18. KYIN had to protect WQOW until the analog went away in 2009.

Recall also that WLAX digital in La Crosse is on channel 17. That's actually the limiting factor today; if you look at the interference analysis that was submitted to the FCC when KYIN asked to boost power in 2008, KYIN causes 0.499% interference to WLAX, just shy of the FCC's 0.5% limit.

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post #3461 of 3533 Old 06-13-2016, 12:48 PM
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KIMT CBS 3 sold today

With backing from an Atlanta private equity firm, former Gray exec Bob Prather agrees to pay $115 million for five small-market network affils: Nexstar's WFFT Ft. Wayne, Ind. (Fox, DMA 111) and KQTV St. Joseph, Mo. (ABC, DMA 201), and Media General's KIMT Rochester, Minn.; (CBS, DMA 153), WTHI Terra Haute, Ind. (CBS, DMA 155); and WLFI Lafayette, Ind. (CBS, DMA 187).

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/9...xstarmedia-gen

This is part of the Nexstar/Media General buyout.
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post #3462 of 3533 Old 06-14-2016, 05:55 PM
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thats 4 owners in 4 years for KIMT
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post #3463 of 3533 Old 07-06-2016, 09:43 AM
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Exclamation Update On Campion Antenna

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
It used to be that Rochester had two antenna installers: Norman Communications (installing Delhi/Jerrod/Wade) and G & S Antenna Byron (installing Winegard). Norman went under ~10 yrs ago and I think G&S hung it up like 3yrs ago. There's now a Campion Antenna in Byron. I would assume they're somehow related to G & S, so I would presume they install Winegard equipment. http://www.campionantenna.com/

Want to post your TVFool.com results or tell us relatively where you are in town? That would give a good idea what you can get. You may be able to get by with an attic install.
Long time since I have been out to look at this website.
Last night's lightning strike to my system, brought me back.
I have a large Rohn tower that is approx. 30 years old now, with a large VHF and UHF antenna on it.
Top of the line system back in the day.
Anyway, my preamp power supply got zapped last night.
Called Dan Campion at Campion antenna, and he was able to find a used preamp power supply, in the array of used items
he has in his garage.
I am back up and running, getting all of the Wisconsin channels I use.
Dan used to install the antennas for G & S back in the day.
Started his own business, I assume Gordy at G & S retired?
So if you are looking for help with new or used antenna equipment, Dan can help you out.
I am not affiliated with Dan at all, just impressed to find someone with his knowledge base that is still in the business.
Nice to have.
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post #3464 of 3533 Old 12-02-2017, 02:03 PM
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Iowa Public TV creates new station, splits up Create and Kids
http://www.iptv.org/about/iptv-news/...el-lineup-faqs

from Northpine.com
Iowa Public Television has launched a fourth broadcast channel, essentially splitting up a hybrid channel that had carried children's programming during the evening and the Create network during other hours. On Dec. 1, the former "IPTV Learns" on DT2 became PBS Kids, with Create moving to a new DT4 channel fulltime. World Channel remains on DT3. The network reaches the entire state with nine full-power transmitters and a handful of translators. IPTV said Mediacom customers should be able to find the new PBS Kids on channel 794 by Dec. 6.
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post #3465 of 3533 Old 01-19-2018, 08:30 AM
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AntennaTv coming to KIMT per an agreement with Heartland Media and Tribune

http://www.tribunemedia.com/antenna-...three-markets/

Antenna TV, Tribune Broadcasting’s multicast network, has expanded to clearances on 135 stations across the country bringing the network’s reach to 86% of US TV households. In the new affiliate agreements, Antenna TV has partnered with Heartland Media to add 3 stations.

New Antenna TV markets include Heartland Media’s WFFT/Ft. Wayne, Indiana KIMT/Rochester Minnesota and KQTV/St. Joseph Missouri.


edit: looks like within 90 days it will be added
https://www.facebook.com/AntennaTV/p...60193237334368

Last edited by unclehonkey; 01-19-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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post #3466 of 3533 Old 03-02-2018, 01:31 PM
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AntennaTv coming to KIMT per an agreement with Heartland Media and Tribune
I have been checking every few days and it was active today (Friday 3/2).

KIMTANT is the PSIP. 4:3 480i. No onscreen bug (yet).

I can get AntennaTV on WEAU and KSTC if I rotate the antenna. But the rotor is dodgy and 70 feet up. I can't risk the rotor getting permanently stuck and not getting Wisconsin stations. So I keep the antenna aimed at La Crosse so I don't miss the Packers. Sometimes KSTC comes in off the side and that is when I could watch Carson. Now I won't have that problem anymore.
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post #3467 of 3533 Old 07-08-2018, 12:27 AM
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KIMT missing from my TV fool results

I am considering dropping my cable TV and going OTA + streaming. I entered my location into TV fool and KIMT did not show up in the results. Where did they go? I live in SW Rochester near the Kohls department store.

Here are my results from TV fool:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038ebf3103bfc

Additionally, I see KIMT and KXLT are supposed to move to different RF channels in phase 1 of the spectrum repacking. How will that affect their future reception in Rochester?

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post #3468 of 3533 Old 07-08-2018, 07:35 AM
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I am considering dropping my cable TV and going OTA + streaming. I entered my location into TV fool and KIMT did not show up in the results. Where did they go? I live in SW Rochester near the Kohls department store.
There is a glitch with tvfool where it doesnt show some stations that are moving frequencies (yet shows others that are also moving)

Quote:
Additionally, I see KIMT and KXLT are supposed to move to different RF channels in phase 1 of the spectrum repacking. How will that affect their future reception in Rochester?
in most cases nothing. Both stations are moving to slightly lower power when they move but that is because lower frequencies can travel further so coverage is pretty much the same.

Your tv fool isnt that bad. You have 2edge which means the signal has to bounce off two things before it gets to you but since youre close enough you would need just a little more powerful antenna. Are you going with an outdoor antenna on the roof or attic? How many tv's (or DVRs such as Tivo or Channelmaster DVR)? Do you want to try and get CBS out of LaCrosse for some extra programming (like football games) or be content with Rochester stations?
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post #3469 of 3533 Old 07-08-2018, 08:05 AM
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For whatever reason, some TV stations have disappeared from the TVFool database (KIMT and WEAU). This has been happening for a few months. Why this is happening and why it hasn't been fixed yet, I don't know. It's kind of a shame as TVFool is an invaluable tool with no direct replacements.

Your TVFool report lists KYIN, which is on the same tower as KIMT (see post 3458). I looked at some old reports from locations around that area - KIMT should be 8-9dB hotter than KYIN, so you should be good. It should also be noted that WKBT CBS 8 La Crosse has even hotter signal than KIMT.

Per the usual, I'd recommend an RCA TVPRAMP1E preamp (Menards or Fleetfarm), 10ft 1 1/4" EMT and 3ft tripod (both Menards), PPC Aquatight connectors (eBay or Amazon), a Newark.com 30-2370 UHF antenna aimed right at 199° and a 30-2475 aimed at 176° for KTTC. If you wanted WKBT too, I'd to two 30-2476s, one aimed at 176° and the other aimed 82° spaced about 3ft apart, combined into a two way splitter via identical lengths of coax (just did this exact setup at my parent's place). You probably want to walk the roof and find the spot where KYIN is the strongest, then mount there.

Repack shouldn't affect you too much. The new channel/power/height combinations are modeled to give very similar coverage as old assignments (maybe a tad better in valleys due to lower frequencies).

Last edited by mattdp; 07-08-2018 at 08:10 AM.
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post #3470 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 06:11 AM
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I am looking to get an antenna for local stations. It looks like the furthest station is about 50 miles from me. I have an antenna that says 55 mile range, but I can't pick up a station that is listed as 30 miles from me. My current antenna is an Antennacraft C290 https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=c290

I am looking at getting a new antenna to see if that helps, I'm considering the two below, but am open to suggestions. when I use antennaweb.org it says I should get a Certified purrple antenna, and below match that...

ANTOP - AT-401BV - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...C9QS89NL&psc=1

Channel Master CM-4228HD - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TW7ZQ3L8&psc=1

I like the cleaner look of the Channel Master, but reception is my primary goal.

I already have an amplifier (SVI Digital) rated at 15DB 53hz-1,000MHz and reverse path 5-42MHz

I really want to get channels 3, 6, 10, 15, and 47...

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post #3471 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 07:01 AM
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Please post your TVFool.com results. That will give us some idea what kind of signal levels your working with.


For maximum UHF gain, you want either an 8 bay UHF antenna (like the CM 4228) or a 91 element yagi. I'd recommend a newark.com part# 30-2370 ($34) over an 8-bay.

You'll also need antenna for VHF-Hi (KTTC), for which I would recommend a Newark 30-2476 ($30). A 15dB amp could work woth 1TV and short cabling lengths, I prefer an RCA TVPRAMP1E ($20 at Menards) which has 16dB VHF/23dB UHF, switchable separate U/V inputs and an FM trap. I'd also recommend an LTE filter (the Kenable model on Amazon) between the UHF antenna and preamp.

Of course, Make sure all your fittings are installed properly, atenna is properly aimed with a compass, etc.
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post #3472 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:08 AM
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here are my results...


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post #3473 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:32 AM
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Looks like you're in a valley, as your Rochester stations are pretty weak (but not un-doable) So yes, you will definitely need the big guns I recommended (and as much elevation as you can get). Aimed correctly, you may also be able to pull in Twin Cities stations.
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post #3474 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:42 AM
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Thanks, I have an HOA so they limit what I can do, but I could put this in the attic of my 2 story house... Do you think the antop one is good, I measured my attic hole, and the channel master may be a bit to bit to fit... BUT I will try and see what can be done if that is the only one that would work. Based on specs without the pre-amps, I see that the Antop has a 12.5 gain and the Channel Master is 12...

My other thought is, I already have the C290, would I benefit from a combiner and just run both?
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post #3475 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:48 AM
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Your HOA cannot prevent you from putting up an outdoor antenna as long as you are placing it in an exclusive use area (such as if you own your roof).


https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-r...n-devices-rule


- Trip

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post #3476 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:50 AM
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weird, they say they do. we can't put up solar panels on the roof either. we have to have our paint colors approved and plant selections etc prior to making any changes
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post #3477 of 3533 Old 08-07-2018, 09:55 AM
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Rabbitears beat me to the punch. Try for the roof. See the link in my signature - I have some shots of those antennas installed if that would help. It should be noted that the FCC places no size restrictions on the TV antennas permitted. The ones I suggested are both 7ft long and at max, 3ft wide. Stacked together on a 3ft tripod, you could probably keep it below 5-6' above roofline (3-4ft with an eave mount if that could work). That's a lot more compact than, say the old 9ft wide, 15-17ft long combo antennas you'll see all over Byron.

Otherwise, yeah. You could try the attic, which will cut your signal by 6dB+ on UHF (necessitating the highest gain antennas you can get).

I wouldn't even think about the Antop or Antennacraft in your situation - too low gain. The Antop is a complete ripoff at $100. The CM-4228 is over $100, while a comparable Newark.com 30-2431 8-Bay is $54.99.

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post #3478 of 3533 Old 08-09-2018, 12:17 PM
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KIMT doesn't show up on your TVFool report because they are using a database with errors to generate reports; it does show up on a report from rabbitears.info using an estimate of your location. I suggest you forget about Minneapolis; very weak:


 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnston7 View Post
I am looking to get an antenna for local stations. It looks like the furthest station is about 50 miles from me. I have an antenna that says 55 mile range, but I can't pick up a station that is listed as 30 miles from me. My current antenna is an Antennacraft C290.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnston7 View Post

I really want to get channels 3, 6, 10, 15, and 47...
Hello, jjohnston7
Where was the C290 located for the test, and did you use the SVI 15 dB amp?
Thank you the image of your report. I agree with the analysis by mattdp, your report indicates you will need a high gain antenna outside with a preamp.


On your other thread
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdtv-technical/2995194-rochester-mn-area-antenna-pre-amp-question.html#post56609446
You asked:
Quote:
I am debating getting a pre-amp for my antenna, It was suggested to me to get one based on the moderately low reception in my area. I'm debating between the below two. I lean towards the channel master, but at almost 3 times the price, is it worth it, or would I be better off with the winegard and just get an LTE filter.
Quote:

The cable run from my antenna to my splitter will be about 75' or so. its a 3 way splitter (not sure if that matters or not, because I heard the pre-amp is for reception, and a distribution amp is for amping to compensate for splitters).
I suggest you make a test with your present antenna in the attic and outside using the SVI amp near the antenna with just one TV. A distribution amp can be used as a preamp if it is located close to the antenna. The results of the tests will determine if you need to have the antenna outside, and if an antenna with more gain is needed.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 08-09-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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post #3479 of 3533 Old 08-22-2018, 06:19 AM
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I am seeking advice from the terrific contributors I found on this thread to help diagnose a very sporadic signal drop I’m experiencing from Twin Cities locals only. I’m fortunate that I live on a relative high point in northwest Rochester with a tvfool report that shows I have nice access to Rochester and possible access to Twin Cities locals.

Some background: A few months ago I installed a RCA ANT752Z in my house’s attic with a 25 foot downlead connected to an HD Homerun Quatro tuner. This has consistently provided me at least 75% signal quality on all Rochester locals and most of the time 90% or better. No issues at all with this, and I noticed in the evenings I could sometimes pick up KMSP out of the twin cities so I wanted to see if I could try obtain twin cities locals, particularly WCCO and KMSP.

After some research (and before I discovered this sub forum), I decided on adding a DB8E pointing towards the Twin Cities. To join the antennas I’m using an RCA TVPRAMP1E amplifier from Menards with it configured to accept separate inputs. The RCA ANT752Z is connected to the VHF input and the DB8E connected to the UHF. All of this is installed in my house attic.

I also added the $8 LTE filter from Amazon I’ve seen suggested and installed it (for now) near my Homerun just upstream of the amplifier’s power injector (antenna side). This arrived the day after the initial install and didn’t want to climb back in attic until I saw how it worked by the power injector. This seemed show about a 10% improvement in signal quality in crude "with and without" tests I've done.

The initial results were very good, with all Rochester locals staying very strong as they were, and obtaining all Twin Cities locals except KARE which I don’t really “care” about . The twin cities locals vary in quality of 70% to 100% on the primary channels with only very some pixelating on the sub channels that I’m not too concerned with, but overall I’m very satisfied with this.

The problem that I would like to solve is a very sporadic but significant loss of signal from the Twin Cities locals. I happened to see it this morning and took a screenshot of the Quatro’s signals showing this and include it in this posting.

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I could do to prevent this from happening? I’ve only seen this happen 4-5 times in quite a bit of TV viewing in the last week, and I’m curious as to why this is happening as it shows something isn’t robust in my setup.

One thing I’m considering is moving the LTE filter to the attic and try placing after the masthead part of the amp on the short lead to the DB8E. Would that make sense to try?

Thanks in advance for any help.
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post #3480 of 3533 Old 08-22-2018, 07:08 AM
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1)The LTE filter must be placed between the UHF (or combined) input and the antenna. Putting it in down the line isn't going to help prevent your preamp from overloading from strong local LTE signals (which may or may not be a problem, but it's good to have a filter inline anyways). It should also be noted that the $7 LTE filters cut >800 MHz while the Channel Master models cut >700MHz.

2)I would recommend going with a Newark.com 30-2370 for UHF and a 30-2476 on VHF-Hi, both pointed at the Cities. You may be able to to receive Rochester just fine off the back. This setup should enable you to add the VHFs (KARE 11.1-4, and KMSP 9.4,5,9. 9.1-3 is UHF, FWIW). Make sure the FM trap is on. Additionally, you should get a bit more UHF gain over the DB8. It is also more directional, meaning it's less prone to pickup multipath from planes and such which can cause breakup.
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Last edited by mattdp; 08-22-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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