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post #11041 of 11077 Old 05-24-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Hess View Post
Calaveras hasn't posted a comment in nearly two months. Has anyone heard from him?

Bob

Hi Bob,

Yes, I moved but I'm still here. I check the forum everyday. There hasn't been much for me to comment about. Congratulations on your upcoming retirement.

Chuck
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post #11042 of 11077 Old 06-15-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Hess View Post
I've had several viewers recommend Alhambra TV. The contact is Bob. Phone number: 916-739-8701

Assuming he's still doing this, I was impressed that he would occasionally call me for suggestions when he was doing a difficult installation. He does seem to know what antenna is best for a particular area.

Bob
Thanks Bob. The Alhambra Bob has been an easy-going straight shooter. Sounds like we'll have a Winegard HD7698 and Channel Master CM9521 installed on our 2-story roof for under $1000, and can check out some of the channels you talking about here.
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post #11043 of 11077 Old 07-20-2019, 10:48 PM
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Yuba City, CA Antenna question

I have a Db4e antenna mounted roughly 22 feet up and about a foot above it on the same pole I have an Antennacraft Y5-7-13 antenna. Both are pointed at 170 degrees with both going into a Antennas Direct UHF VHF combiner and then a Wineguard LNA-200 amp then a LTE filter and then a grounding block. Then roughly 75 feet of coax before a splitter that goes to the TV and a HDHomerun dual tuner.
The 75 feet of coax isn't continuous, there are 4 separate sections. I bought new coax to run one continuous line of it but mistakenly ordered RG11. It looks like I can use it as I don't have any really tight corners to make it through but haven't tried it yet. I may still go with RG6 instead, Belden 1694A, rather than struggling with the really stiff RG11 which is also 100 feet long and I don't have the tools to terminate RG11 cable.

I have been told before that I shouldn't need a signal amplifier at the antenna but without one the channels really drop out a lot more frequently. With one I still get dropouts but less frequently and more of the lesser channels CW and ION will come in much better. NBC, FOX and PBS will drop even with the amp, usually worse in the summer months. Is this likely inversions? Anything I can do about it? Originally the dropped signals happened more in the evening but lately they have been going in the middle of the day too.

The Db4e is listed as multi-directional but if I turn the pole even a millimeter or two in either direction I lose nearly all the channels.

The gain on the Db4e is listed as quite high and several sources have told me it should be plenty for my location even without an amplifier and that an amp causes problems with the signal getting too strong.

Is the VHF antenna mounted that close above the UHF a real problem? I really don't have a good alternate location to mount it as all the other roof mounting points have trees at the street in their path.

There aren't any trees in the direction the antennas are pointed for about 3/4 of a mile

Without the amp when I lose a channel the signal strength and quality meter on the HDHomerun will just go to zero. Sometimes with the amp connected I will get a high signal strength and zero for the signal quality.

I've seen recommendations on here for the HD7698P antenna but it is huge and although I could try putting a large antenna in the attic it would be pointing out through wire embedded stucco
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post #11044 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 06:05 AM
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post #11045 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 07:44 AM
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post #11046 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta240 View Post
I have a Db4e antenna mounted roughly 22 feet up and about a foot above it on the same pole I have an Antennacraft Y5-7-13 antenna. Both are pointed at 170 degrees with both going into a Antennas Direct UHF VHF combiner and then a Wineguard LNA-200 amp then a LTE filter and then a grounding block. Then roughly 75 feet of coax before a splitter that goes to the TV and a HDHomerun dual tuner.
Hello, ta240

This is your report image:



TVFool is using a defective database to generate reports, so this report from rabbitears.info probably has a more accurate list of channels:



Quote:
I have been told before that I shouldn't need a signal amplifier at the antenna but without one the channels really drop out a lot more frequently. With one I still get dropouts but less frequently and more of the lesser channels CW and ION will come in much better.
I think a preamp would help. The strongest channels on your report are from the north, KVIE and KXTV are much weaker, and you need some amplification before that long coax run.

Quote:
NBC, FOX and PBS will drop even with the amp, usually worse in the summer months. Is this likely inversions? Anything I can do about it? Originally the dropped signals happened more in the evening but lately they have been going in the middle of the day too.
There might be temperature inversions, but I think the ground clutter in the signal path is more likely. Although your weaker signals are listed as LOS, the software used does not consider ground clutter, like trees and buildings, in the signal path. If you look at the KXTV terrain profile, you will see that the signal grazes the surface on its way to your antenna:






Quote:
The Db4e is listed as multi-directional but if I turn the pole even a millimeter or two in either direction I lose nearly all the channels.
The DB4e is directional, but not THAT directional. There is either something blocking the signal path, or you have, more likely, multipath signals caused by scattering of the signals from ground clutter.
Quote:
Is the VHF antenna mounted that close above the UHF a real problem? I really don't have a good alternate location to mount it as all the other roof mounting points have trees at the street in their path.
I would have put the DB4e above the VHF Yagi, to get it out from under its shadow.
Quote:
Sometimes with the amp connected I will get a high signal strength and zero for the signal quality.
A high noise level from electrical interference can do that. Does your TV tuner do any better than your HDHR on problem channels?
Quote:
I've seen recommendations on here for the HD7698P antenna but it is huge and although I could try putting a large antenna in the attic it would be pointing out through wire embedded stucco
The wire mesh would block the signals.

The LTE filter should go before the preamp. Are you certain you have LTE interference?

The LNA-200 has no shielding to protect it from strong local interference.

The Antennas Direct Juice is well shielded and has an internal LTE filter, but it might not make a difference at your location.

A VHF antenna with more gain might help.
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post #11047 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 09:43 AM
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Thank you so much for the detailed reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
TVFool is using a defective database to generate reports, so this report from rabbitears.info probably has a more accurate list of channels:
thanks, I hadn't heard of that site. The station strength on that report matches much more closely with my reception experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I think a preamp would help. The strongest channels on your report are from the north, KVIE and KXTV are much weaker, and you need some amplification before that long coax run.
Would it work to add a second db4e behind my current one pointing in the opposite direction and combine the signals to give me the stronger signals from the north? Or would that gum up the mix even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
There might be temperature inversions, but I think the ground clutter in the signal path is more likely. Although your weaker signals are listed as LOS, the software used does not consider ground clutter, like trees and buildings, in the signal path. If you look at the KXTV terrain profile, you will see that the signal grazes the surface on its way to your antenna:
and over time the signals get worse and worse which would match with trees in the distance getting taller.

They fluctuate so much from one minute to the next that I now have to wonder if the change I just did that seemed to improve the signal was just a coincidence. Last night when about half the channels were lost I added the amp back into the chain and had every station coming in clear. Then a half hour later I lost half the channels again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
The DB4e is directional, but not THAT directional. There is either something blocking the signal path, or you have, more likely, multipath signals caused by scattering of the signals from ground clutter.
that also would help explain why when I try raising the antenna a foot or so sometimes the signal goes away too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I would have put the DB4e above the VHF Yagi, to get it out from under its shadow.
I plan to drop the pole and check all the connections so I can swap the positions then. I could move the Yagi to its own mount but it would likely be about 5 feet behind and slightly below the DB4e at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
A high noise level from electrical interference can do that. Does your TV tuner do any better than your HDHR on problem channels?
The reception seems to be very similar between the two. I have considered putting the HDHR closer to the antenna and running network cable to the computer for it. It could save about 50 ft of coax before it then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
The LTE filter should go before the preamp. Are you certain you have LTE interference?
No, I was hoping the signal losses were due to that so I added the filter but haven't noticed much improvement with it. I'll try removing it before I move the antennas around and if it seems to help I can put it before the amp when the antenna is on the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
The LNA-200 has no shielding to protect it from strong local interference.
Would putting the LNA-200 inside a grounded metal project box add useful shielding to it? Otherwise the Juice might be worth a shot. My wife is only likely to put up with programs cutting out in the middle for a bit longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
A VHF antenna with more gain might help.
Would the ClearStream5 likely work well there? It wouldn't stick out in front of the UHF antenna as much as the Yagi so that could be another benefit.


Are the Antop at-400bv antennas a gimmick or would something like that be a decent looking way to have VHF and UHF in one antenna?
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post #11048 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ta240 View Post
Would it work to add a second db4e behind my current one pointing in the opposite direction and combine the signals to give me the stronger signals from the north? Or would that gum up the mix even more.
It would gum up the works; combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions usually doesn't work well. Be happy with the channels from the south.



Quote:
They fluctuate so much from one minute to the next that I now have to wonder if the change I just did that seemed to improve the signal was just a coincidence. Last night when about half the channels were lost I added the amp back into the chain and had every station coming in clear. Then a half hour later I lost half the channels again.
OTA signals constantly vary in strength. I have often seen a change of 10 dB in 30 minutes with marginal signals.

Quote:
that also would help explain why when I try raising the antenna a foot or so sometimes the signal goes away too.
The signal wavefront is not uniform. Small changes in antenna height can make a big difference in strength because of signal layering.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html



Quote:
I plan to drop the pole and check all the connections so I can swap the positions then. I could move the Yagi to its own mount but it would likely be about 5 feet behind and slightly below the DB4e at that point.
I suggest you keep them on the same mast first, before trying another location.

Quote:
The reception seems to be very similar between the two. I have considered putting the HDHR closer to the antenna and running network cable to the computer for it. It could save about 50 ft of coax before it then.
If you have already amplified the antenna signals with a preamp, that probably wouldn't make much difference. But, when in doubt, try it if your wife can tolerate another loss of signals.

Quote:
Would putting the LNA-200 inside a grounded metal project box add useful shielding to it? Otherwise the Juice might be worth a shot. My wife is only likely to put up with programs cutting out in the middle for a bit longer.
That would be a lot of trouble and it isn't certain it would make any difference.

Quote:
Would the ClearStream5 likely work well there? It wouldn't stick out in front of the UHF antenna as much as the Yagi so that could be another benefit.
The CS5 probably doesn't have any more gain than you present VHF Yagi. You would have to upgrade to the Stellar Labs 30-2475 or 2476 sold by Newark.

Quote:
Are the Antop at-400bv antennas a gimmick or would something like that be a decent looking way to have VHF and UHF in one antenna?
That antenna only has a simple dipole for VHF-High; not as much gain as your present VHF antenna. It's not suitable for you.
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post #11049 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 12:24 PM
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Was wondering what's going on with KAHC-LD (the 43 suite of sub-channels)--that low powered Sacramento-based station which transmits from 38°38'53.11"N 121°28'36.97"W; included in their galaxy of sub-channels is the one I'm most interested in: COZI TV at 43-3; I like my Rockford Files in the morning from COZI, in particular. Came in all last week, but since Saturday morning there is no joy--absolutely no signal acquired. Local 47 transmits from the same tower, and it's coming in fine. Has anybody heard what's happenng here?


Addendum--By the way, I finally secured a reliable locked-on signal from the Blues station (AKA, KSAO-LD 49-2). They transmit videos by Blues musicians from 38°38'52.92"N 121° 5'53.93"W; after much experimentation, good things finally happened when I hung a flat indoor antenna precisely half way down a north-facing window in an easternmost room of the house.
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post #11050 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paleotone View Post
Was wondering what's going on with KAHC-LD (the 43 suite of sub-channels)--that low powered Sacramento-based station which transmits from 38°38'53.11"N 121°28'36.97"W; included in their galaxy of sub-channels is the one I'm most interested in: COZI TV at 43-3; I like my Rockford Files in the morning from COZI, in particular. Came in all last week, but since Saturday morning there is no joy--absolutely no signal acquired. Local 47 transmits from the same tower, and it's coming in fine. Has anybody heard what's happenng here?
Note: Just to clarify--I do know that COZI does not run The Rockford Files on weekends.
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post #11051 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta240 View Post
and over time the signals get worse and worse which would match with trees in the distance getting taller.

They fluctuate so much from one minute to the next that I now have to wonder if the change I just did that seemed to improve the signal was just a coincidence. Last night when about half the channels were lost I added the amp back into the chain and had every station coming in clear. Then a half hour later I lost half the channels again.

Rapidly changing signals are almost always due to the signals passing through moving vegetation. The signals should be more stable when it is calm.

The valley is notorious for temperature inversions. There's probably more hours per day with some sort of inversion in place than not. Sometimes they can enhance signals and sometimes degrade signals.

At 63 miles from the Walnut Grove towers it's unlikely you'll ever find an antenna setup that receives all the stations all the time.

As rabbit73 pointed out, you probably don't have true LOS to the towers because of ground clutter, even if it isn't in close.

The only real solution is to have the antenna high enough to achieve true LOS to the towers but that's probably an impossible height.

Chuck

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post #11052 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleotone View Post
Was wondering what's going on with KAHC-LD (the 43 suite of sub-channels)--that low powered Sacramento-based station which transmits from 38°38'53.11"N 121°28'36.97"W; included in their galaxy of sub-channels is the one I'm most interested in: COZI TV at 43-3; I like my Rockford Files in the morning from COZI, in particular. Came in all last week, but since Saturday morning there is no joy--absolutely no signal acquired. Local 47 transmits from the same tower, and it's coming in fine. Has anybody heard what's happenng here?

If you've been receiving this station solidly for a long time and it suddenly disappeared then it's probably off the air, especially if KFMS on RF 47 is fine. KAHC and KFMS share the same antenna. No one is monitoring these LP stations so if one develops a problem then it can stay that way for a long time. If it doesn't come back then I'd look them up in the FCC database to get an e-mail address of someone to complain to. This has worked for me a few times.

Chuck
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post #11053 of 11077 Old 07-21-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
... But, when in doubt, try it if your wife can tolerate another loss of signals...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
...The only real solution is to have the antenna high enough to achieve our LOS to the towers but that's probably an impossible height...
Well, on the good side there are very few things worth watching anymore.

So, I'll order the better VHF antenna, move the UHF to the top and try out different overall antenna heights and then not drive myself crazy trying to figure out what is going on when the signals cut out.

Thanks for the replies and advice.
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post #11054 of 11077 Old 07-25-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Paleotone View Post
Was wondering what's going on with KAHC-LD (the 43 suite of sub-channels)--that low powered Sacramento-based station which transmits from 38°38'53.11"N 121°28'36.97"W; included in their galaxy of sub-channels is the one I'm most interested in: COZI TV at 43-3; I like my Rockford Files in the morning from COZI, in particular. Came in all last week, but since Saturday morning there is no joy--absolutely no signal acquired. Local 47 transmits from the same tower, and it's coming in fine. Has anybody heard what's happenng here?
Update--The Conclusion, as it were:


I've concluded to my satisfaction that with my present indoor antennae configurations (three Winegard flat antennae situated in three separate sectors of the house, connected to three different television sets), receiving the full galaxy/suite of available KAHC-LD stations (the 43 complex) remains elusively problematic. Over the course of the previous few days, I've noted that KAHC-LD (with its primary attraction--COZI TV--at 43-3) exhibits literalclockwork regularity.


After flickering and sputtering from approximately 6:00am onward (just when The Rockford Files is scheduled), 43-3 surges into reliable recoverable receptivity between 10 and 11:00am--and then, just as abruptly vanishes, dissipates into the great non-propagation ether, between 8 and 9:00pm. Probably the variable reception pattrern is contingent on KAHC-LD's transmitter power schedule.


Perhaps not coincidentally, though, 43-3 mysteriously materializes with a surging steady signal in the mornings just as San Francisco stations 2 (Fox) and 4 (NBC) fade out completely (by the way, at one time or another, I've been able to receive many of the major stations--along with their sub-channels, of course--from San Francisco; that is to say: 2, 4, 5 (CBS), 7 (ABC), 9 (PBS), and 54 (PBS, San Jose), for example.


Anyhow, I am considerably well-pleased with my over the air receptions. I'm consistently pulling in with lock-on stability some 72 stations from each of my three Winegard flat antennae, though my personal record from one is 98 (terrific tropospheric propagation probably prevails periodically); for that specific configuration, the flat surface of the antenna faces roughly due southward at a height of about 7 feet. For the other two indoor television antennae--one placed six feet high, the other only two feet off the ground, draped over the back of a chair--I've angled the flat black sides southeast (the reciprocal white-colored reverse sides thus face northwest), with the edges aligned southwest to northeast.


Bottom line. Let's put it this way: Despite an inability to maintain a sure full day lock-on from KAHC-LD, I am certainly not wanting for any of the known available stations in the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto over the air market.
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post #11055 of 11077 Old 07-25-2019, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleotone View Post
Update--The Conclusion, as it were:

Perhaps not coincidentally, though, 43-3 mysteriously materializes with a surging steady signal in the mornings just as San Francisco stations 2 (Fox) and 4 (NBC) fade out completely (by the way, at one time or another, I've been able to receive many of the major stations--along with their sub-channels, of course--from San Francisco; that is to say: 2, 4, 5 (CBS), 7 (ABC), 9 (PBS), and 54 (PBS, San Jose), for example.

If you're receiving stations from Sutro Tower then it's a good bet that KBCW on RF 45 is interfering with KAHC also on RF45. KBCW is probably strongest in the evenings and mornings and fades in late morning and stays out in the afternoons, the times you receive KAHC the best.

KAHC can move to RF 30 anytime they want but you'll have the same problem with KQED on RF 30.

You can probably solve the problem with a good directional outdoor antenna if KAHC and Sutro Tower are in different directions from your location.

Chuck
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post #11056 of 11077 Old 07-29-2019, 06:45 PM
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There is a new series of videos on YouTube that have been uploaded by the "Antenna Man". I've looked at what he offers and he does a really good job of explaining OTA TV and how to receive good reception. Most of his videos are 4 to 8 minutes long. He's based in eastern Pennsylvania, but what he says works anywhere, and he does a good job of explaining his subjects.

The subjects he covers are:
Ten Ways to Improve OTA TV Reception
Attic TV Antenna vs Outdoor TV Antenna
Top Three Outdoor TV Antennas
Best TV Antenna Signal Amplifiers
How To Combine Two TV Antennas
How to Ground an Outdoor TV Antenna
Get More OTA TV Channels with a Better Tuner
Connect a TV Antenna to Multiple Sets
VHF and UHF TV Antennas Explained
Recent OTA TV Reception Issues From FCC Repack
How Trees Affect OTA TV Signals
ClearStream 2MAX Indoor/Outdoor TV Antenna
Mohu Supreme Pro Antenna
Onn 150 Mile Outdoor TV Antenna Setup and Reception
Dell Computers Owner Takes TV Stations Off The Air
and more

His videos are available at this address: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ry=antenna+man

I highly recommend the Antenna Man videos for those having OTA reception problems or who want to find out more about OTA TV.

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Photos and info on my antennas: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html
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post #11057 of 11077 Old 08-06-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
It would gum up the works; combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions usually doesn't work well. Be happy with the channels from the south.
Thanks again for all the info and tips.

After climbing up and looking at the world from the POV of my antenna I decided to try the signals from the North instead. There are more trees to the south than I thought. There are less trees to the North.

I raised up the UHF antenna to the to of the pole and installed the Stellar Labs 30-2475 about 2 feet below it. The ABC station (VHF) to the North is over 100 miles so I pointed the VHF antenna to the South to get the PBS and ABC VHF stations from that direction. The ABC station to the North is also at a different angle (318) from the other stations which puts it behind a line of trees that run along neighbors yards to the west of us.

NBC, CBS, FOX and CW from the North have way fewer dropouts. In the last week I lost CW once. The NBC station is at a very slightly different angle from the others so I may look at getting something like the DB8e where I can adjust them at slightly different angles. Would that cause issues with one pointed at 342 degrees and the other at 329? Or are those close enough that it doesn't matter?

I still get the Southern ABC station cutting out about 20% of the time with the 30-2475 and somehow get the one to the North coming in about 20% of the time (unfortunately, they don't swap it is both or none) with the antenna pointed the opposite direction. I guess the thing to test next is pointing the VHF at North 318 (or I guess as close to that direction but to the side of the trees?) to see how it does. I probably should have opted for the larger VHF antenna.

I still have to replace the main run of cable through the attic. I've read that each connector drops around a half db of signal; is that true? It will be more work but I can run an uninterrupted line all the way from the ground connector at the antenna to the splitter before the TV and cut out 2 more connections.

On the plus side I added a pulley to assist in lowering the antenna pole so it is easy to drop down and change things on now.

Last edited by ta240; 08-06-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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post #11058 of 11077 Old 08-06-2019, 03:56 PM
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Thanks again for all the info and tips.

After climbing up and looking at the world from the POV of my antenna I decided to try the signals from the North instead. There are more trees to the south than I thought. There are less trees to the North.

I raised up the UHF antenna to the to of the pole and installed the Stellar Labs 30-2475 about 2 feet below it. The ABC station (VHF) to the North is over 100 miles so I pointed the VHF antenna to the South to get the PBS and ABC VHF stations from that direction. The ABC station to the North is also at a different angle (318) from the other stations which puts it behind a line of trees that run along neighbors yards to the west of us.

NBC, CBS, FOX and CW from the North have way fewer dropouts.

I still get the Southern ABC station cutting out about 20% of the time with the 30-2475 and somehow get the one to the North coming in about 20% of the time (unfortunately, they don't swap it is both or none) with the antenna pointed the opposite direction. I guess the thing to test next is pointing the VHF at North 318 (or I guess as close to that direction but to the side of the trees?) to see how it does. I probably should have opted for the larger VHF antenna.
.
Some things I notice with UHF / VHF and trees.

There are NO problems with VHF channels RF 2 through 13 and trees.
So go right ahead and point the antenna line of sight right through the trees.

UHF channels ....
Here is where the problems of trees come to play.
You will notice on these channels especially on windy days, these stations break up. The more windy the bigger the problem.
And a wet tree with wind is the worst.
Things normalize on wind free days. (Trees not moving)

The problem is especially bad if 200+ feet is not clear in front of the UHF antenna.

So pick a spot with "blue sky" facing the UHF transmitters.

And trees completely block satellite signals from a dish antenna.

So when you see UHF stations cutting out on windy days, flip over to VHF 7,9, 10. And you'll notice no cutting out on the windy days.
Tree impacts on VHF are minimal and usually not noticeable at all.
But VHF can get wacky on extremely hot days with inversion layers coming & going etc.
Temperature changes etc.
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post #11059 of 11077 Old 08-06-2019, 05:21 PM
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KVIE 6-RF 9 and KXTV 10 were both booming into San Francisco today while the UHF stations, KMAX 31-RF 21, KOVR 13-RF 25 and KQCA 58-RF 46 were coming in weaker than normal. I've often noticed that when VHF is up, UHF is down in signal strength and vis-versa. Some days KMAX, KOVR and KQCA are really strong while I get a very low signal on 9 and 10. My signals from the Walnut Grove transmitter site vary a lot here.

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post #11060 of 11077 Old 08-07-2019, 07:27 AM
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There are NO problems with VHF channels RF 2 through 13 and trees.
So go right ahead and point the antenna line of sight right through the trees.

I wouldn't say that low/high VHF signals are unaffected by trees. I'd say they less affected in most cases. Attached are a couple of spectrum analyzer traces for KVIE (9) and KXTV (10) captured from a location in Arnold using a HD7698P antenna looking though a pine forest. If the signals were unaffected the signals would be flat. UHF is a mess up there and reception is completely unpredictable. Some of the Sacramento stations looked pretty good while others were destroyed. See attached capture of KTXL (40).

Chuck
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post #11061 of 11077 Old 08-07-2019, 03:51 PM
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I got the first signs of tropo activity of the year this morning here in San Francisco. I received KNVN transmitting on RF 24 from Red Bluff, 173 miles away, off and on between 6 and 10 am.

All of the Walnut Grove stations are booming in today, too, both UHF and VHF.

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post #11062 of 11077 Old 08-26-2019, 10:13 AM
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Wondering if there might be some help to solve a pixelation problem, primarily with UHF channels. I've read through the forum, and I've seen some problems similar to mine, but no clear solutions.
My problem is primarily pixelation/dropouts on UHF channels (KOVR and KTXL) though I occasionally also see them on KCRA. KVIE, which I previously had problems with in a nearby house, comes in perfectly. I'm in (tree heavy) Elmhurst, using an RCA ANT751E outdoors, about four feet off the ground. I believe the antenna is pointed pretty closely in the right direction. However, the antenna is pointing directly at the back of the house behind me, as well as dense, 40 (?) foot tall trees in my neighbor's back yard. I rent, so putting the antenna on the roof is really problematic, and it wouldn't clear the tree canopy anyway. I may be able to get the antenna 10 feet or so off the ground without too much trouble.

Signal quality via HDHomeRun Connect Duo for the problem channels is in the 69-75 range. (VHF channels are in general closer to 100 quality and not usually a problem). The cable run from the antenna is (maybe?) 50 feet, and if it matters, there are at least three coax couplers in between, one at the antenna, one under the house, and one at the wall plate. No splitters, amps or preamps.

Picture quality across the board is otherwise pretty good. I tend to see the most dropouts most during 49ers games, which is especially irritating because the dropouts tend to throw my DVR into fits, though I don't think the DVR is the source of the problem. This makes the games hard to watch.

From what I've read, this might be a multipath issue due to the dense trees. Would either replacing the existing antenna or adding a second antenna with bowties (Channel Master CM-4221?) or combining the two help? I'd appreciate any advice, but again, raising the antenna much higher is likely to be an issue.

Thanks!

Last edited by cnccnc; 08-26-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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post #11063 of 11077 Old 08-26-2019, 01:23 PM
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From what I've read, this might be a multipath issue due to the dense trees.

TVFool shows all your stations to be very strong and only about 20 miles away. Vegetation is most likely the issue. No antenna can undo the problem caused by the trees. You can try moving the antenna or a different antenna but I can't guarantee any of those things will work. Can you raise the antenna just as a test to see if it makes any difference? The only real solution is raising the antenna to 50' which looks to be impossible for you.

This page shows what trees do to the signal.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

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post #11064 of 11077 Old 08-26-2019, 04:10 PM
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TVFool shows all your stations to be very strong and only about 20 miles away. Vegetation is most likely the issue. No antenna can undo the problem caused by the trees. You can try moving the antenna or a different antenna but I can't guarantee any of those things will work. Can you raise the antenna just as a test to see if it makes any difference? The only real solution is raising the antenna to 50' which looks to be impossible for you.

This page shows what trees do to the signal.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

Chuck

I really appreciate the response. Cutting right to the issue saves me a ton of time, trouble and money in troubleshooting. I'll have to see what I can do to get the antenna higher. Maybe there's a little less density if I'm higher in the canopy. Thanks again for your help!
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post #11065 of 11077 Old 09-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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Hi!
Does anyone know if something has changed with KSPX-DT 29.1 ION? I have an AntennaCraft HBU11K mounted about 25' up and its pointed almost exactly in its direction. It used to get the station pretty strong, but now, its unwatchable.
Just wondering if its me or if there has been a change.
Could trees have a significant impact? Maybe I have to have my big Hemlock trimmed or wait for the leaves to fall ... Have had both antenna & tree for years.

Thanks.

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post #11066 of 11077 Old 09-20-2019, 05:00 PM
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Hi!
Does anyone know if something has changed with KSPX-DT 29.1 ION? I have an AntennaCraft HBU11K mounted about 25' up and its pointed almost exactly in its direction. It used to get the station pretty strong, but now, its unwatchable.
Just wondering if its me or if there has been a change.
It's not you. Something has been going on at that station for any number of weeks. See the attached spectrum image below -- I labeled all the visible carriers in the the general vicinity -- note that comparatively low level of KSPX. I'd love to know their current power level, as I get considerably more from low power stations, like KCSO.
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post #11067 of 11077 Old 09-20-2019, 07:09 PM
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KSPX is at 742' 4.3 kW until they move to their new channel.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #11068 of 11077 Old 09-20-2019, 07:17 PM
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KSPX is at 742' 4.3 kW until they move to their new channel.

- Trip
Thanks for the info Trip! I’ve been wondering what was going on with these guys.
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post #11069 of 11077 Old 09-22-2019, 10:34 AM
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It's not you. Something has been going on at that station for any number of weeks. See the attached spectrum image below -- I labeled all the visible carriers in the the general vicinity -- note that comparatively low level of KSPX. I'd love to know their current power level, as I get considerably more from low power stations, like KCSO.
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KSPX is at 742' 4.3 kW until they move to their new channel.
- Trip
Thanks for the response! Their site does allow for contacting them. Since there is content that I enjoy watching, I think I will reach out and see if they provide a response.

How does the FCC Repack actually affect the few channels here? When looking at KSPX, it says it will be moving to RF 21. RF 21 is currently KMAX. Would this just turn into channel 31.5 type thing?
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post #11070 of 11077 Old 09-22-2019, 10:50 AM
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How does the FCC Repack actually affect the few channels here? When looking at KSPX, it says it will be moving to RF 21. RF 21 is currently KMAX. Would this just turn into channel 31.5 type thing?

Go to:

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php

and click on Sacramento (#11) and you'll see all the repack changes. KMAX is moving to RF 24.

Chuck
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