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post #5911 of 5943 Old 10-23-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadboss View Post
So am I correct in assuming that WISC channel 3 Madison isn’t at full power yet?
correct
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/d...fd878f757.html

and the FCC filings
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6db62905a93494
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6dd63157b80367
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post #5912 of 5943 Old 10-23-2019, 04:58 PM
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Muscoda zip code 53573 senior apartments with built in rooftop antenna to all rooms now can only scan in 13 channels. Can only get 15, 27 and 47. Residents here are furious. Nice work those involved!
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post #5913 of 5943 Old 10-23-2019, 07:04 PM
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Thanks Ron,
I guess I’ll stop climbing onto the roof to swing my antenna. Seems like there’s always complications on every job.
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post #5914 of 5943 Old 10-25-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ehren View Post
Muscoda zip code 53573 senior apartments with built in rooftop antenna to all rooms now can only scan in 13 channels. Can only get 15, 27 and 47. Residents here are furious. Nice work those involved!
50 miles from the transmitter tower, AND you are in a river valley. Yep, that'll do it. The only thing I could suggest, if that is an outdoor antenna on top of a building, is a better signal preamplifier. But even that holds no promises.

Gilbert
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post #5915 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 09:43 AM
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Please help me troubleshoot channel corruption (ATSC)

I hope this is the right spot for this. My TiVo Bolt has had an issue with this channel since we got it. Previous S3 TiVos had no issue, no other tuners in the house (Samsung and Panasonic TVs) seem to have an issue with it either. So the Bolt is apparently just not a great tuner. The issue I'm seeing is occasional (once every few seconds to once every few minutes) corruption of the video, sometimes with an audio dropout.

Location: Madison, WI
Channel with issue: WMTV 15 - real frequency channel: 19
Distance from transmitter: 2 miles
Antenna: Antennas Direct DB4e
Cable path: Through a TII 212 surge protector, a MoCa filter, then split 7 ways when inside the house with an 8-way splitter.
Split again right before the TiVo to feed the TV.

This setup is way overkill given the distance to the antennas, but I wanted to make sure I could split the line N times for N tvs in the house and not worry about signal strength, Instead I may have created the opposite problem...

In my previous attempts to solve this, I purchased a DIGIAIR-PRO-ATSC and found that despite the splits, channel 19 was coming in hot. Like +20dBmV. So i put a 16dB attenuator on the line after the MoCa filter, which brought the signal down right around 0dBmV at the TiVo and that seemed to resolve the issue. It cropped up again, and I found the signal was still a little over 0dB so I increased the attenuation to 20dB, and thought that solved the issue. Then it cropped up again and I found the signal was now -5.x dB, so I put the 16db attenuator back on last night. This was over the course of about 9 months.

I feel like I'm chasing my tail here and the attenuation is only masking another issue like multipath or interference. The antenna location isn't great - it is on a pole in the side of the yard (old dish pole) about 5' high, and my neighbor's house is between the antenna and tower.

The issue comes and goes, haven't narrowed it down to a particular time of day or anything. I don't suspect interference like FM or LTE because the channel is at 500Mhz, smack in the middle of the TV frequencies. Also, I can literally see the transmitter antenna if I go a little beyond my backyard.

I may try to move the antenna away from the houses and see if that helps, but making that permanent would be non-trivial.

Is there any way to figure out what's actually going on? The Digiair is nice for getting raw power readouts (rather than the garbage "signal strength" that TVs and the TiVo gives) but a single signal strength number doesn't give the whole picture.
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post #5916 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 11:03 AM
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I hope this is the right spot for this.
Moved to the "right spot."

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post #5917 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 11:52 AM
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So the Bolt is apparently just not a great tuner.
This is the key sentence.

I also have a Tivo Bolt, and also had problems with channel 15 when no other tuners in the house did (including an old Tivo HD). Though it wasn't really limited to 15: I'd see it on 21 and 47, too, we just tend to watch more stuff on 15, so between that and 15 being the weakest of the big 4 stations in Madison (lower powered, and intermittent co-channel interference from WGN in Chicago), we see it there more often.

Previously, we had the Tivo Bolt hooked up to Charter cable and had a lot of pixelation problems with Charter's TV service, too. I assumed it was Charter, but after continuing to experience signal issues after switching to antenna, despite repeated attempts to improve the signal (ended up installing a rooftop antenna with distribution amp and high quality coax), and not being able to reproduce the problem on other receivers in the house, I finally considered that maybe the problem was the Tivo. My previous 3 Tivos had been so rock solid the thought had not occurred to me, but it didn't take much Google searching to find threads like this:

https://www.tivocommunity.com/commun...e-else.553614/
https://www.tivocommunity.com/commun...nd-snr.553918/

I also tried to get support from Tivo on this issue, and they just sent me a useless link to one of their knowledgebase articles.

We ended up getting YouTube TV, and after using that service for months, found that we were hardly ever using the Tivo anymore, and often when we did, we'd run into recordings with signal issues. Then a few weeks ago Tivo introduced the pre-roll ads that play before you can watch any of your recordings. I unplugged the Tivo and put it in the basement when that happened, and can't say I've missed it.

It's a shame -- I used to be a huge fan of their products, but between the flaky hardware, poor support, and now pumping ads into my recordings, I don't see myself buying another Tivo in the future.

Good luck in your quest for reliable Bolt reception. If you're handy with a soldering iron, perhaps you can check for the RF connector solder issues outlined in the tivocommunity forum posts, and repair if necessary.
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post #5918 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RonBurgundy View Post
This is the key sentence.

I also have a Tivo Bolt, and also had problems with channel 15 when no other tuners in the house did (including an old Tivo HD). Though it wasn't really limited to 15: I'd see it on 21 and 47, too, we just tend to watch more stuff on 15, so between that and 15 being the weakest of the big 4 stations in Madison (lower powered, and intermittent co-channel interference from WGN in Chicago), we see it there more often.

...

Good luck in your quest for reliable Bolt reception. If you're handy with a soldering iron, perhaps you can check for the RF connector solder issues outlined in the tivocommunity forum posts, and repair if necessary.
I figured the TiVo's internal attenuator wasn't very good so knocking the signal down to 0dBmV externally helped it enough to tune properly, but clearly the TiVo tuner is part of the issue. I'm handy with a soldering iron so I may pop off the cover to check the connection, but since only one channel has the issue (and it is the strongest from my location, as shown by the Digiair) I doubt I will find anything.

We've also considered ditching TiVo since the preroll ad announcement, but they haven't shown up on our boxes yet, and I'm not looking forward to trying to switch to something else entirely.
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post #5919 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 06:20 PM
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The only time I ever capture WMTV is if I have an issue capturing the sat feed of Jeopardy! I can always catch it the next week day on WMTV. I live about 1.5 miles due south of the tower and yet I stiff have issues tuning the channel, even with the outside UHF antenna pointed directly at the tower (it is on a rotor). Both the Samsung STB and the MyHD PCI tuner card have issues. No idea what the cause is.

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post #5920 of 5943 Old 10-28-2019, 09:53 PM
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My current thought is to get a tunable UHF notch filter, which is apparently only made by one company/person in Slovakia...tune it to channel 19 to cut 25dB from that channel and leave 20 (WHA) and 21 (WIFS) mostly alone. I experimented tonight and put another 20dB attenuator on the line for a total of 36dB plus two splitters and that seemed to solve the issue with the TiVo's tuner on that station (but obviously made other stations disappear). I'm guessing there's some multi-path signals that the TiVo can't eliminate that other tuners don't have trouble with, but severely attenuating the signal knocks the multipath signal down below the threshold.

I also found channel deletion filters on E-bay that are quite reasonably priced, but they knock the signal down by 55dB+, which even given my super-hot +20dB signal would put it below reception range.

Last edited by Saturn49; 10-28-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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post #5921 of 5943 Old 10-29-2019, 09:21 AM
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The only time I ever capture WMTV is if I have an issue capturing the sat feed of Jeopardy! I can always catch it the next week day on WMTV. I live about 1.5 miles due south of the tower and yet I stiff have issues tuning the channel, even with the outside UHF antenna pointed directly at the tower (it is on a rotor). Both the Samsung STB and the MyHD PCI tuner card have issues. No idea what the cause is.
That's interesting. A while back, when I was still trying to improve reception of WMTV, I called the antenna installer I hired to put up my rooftop antenna to ask him about repointing the antenna more toward channel 15's tower (originally aimed it roughly between WMTV and community tower, which are within 20 degrees of each other from my house). He told me not to bother, as he didn't think repointing would make much difference, and added that he has had a lot of complaints from his customers about reception of WMTV, and definitely more so than for any other local stations.
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post #5922 of 5943 Old 10-29-2019, 06:01 PM
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He told me not to bother, as he didn't think repointing would make much difference, and added that he has had a lot of complaints from his customers about reception of WMTV, and definitely more so than for any other local stations.
That is interesting. At least I now know that I am not the only one.

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post #5923 of 5943 Old 10-30-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Saturn49 View Post
My current thought is to get a tunable UHF notch filter, which is apparently only made by one company/person in Slovakia...tune it to channel 19 to cut 25dB from that channel and leave 20 (WHA) and 21 (WIFS) mostly alone. I experimented tonight and put another 20dB attenuator on the line for a total of 36dB plus two splitters and that seemed to solve the issue with the TiVo's tuner on that station (but obviously made other stations disappear). I'm guessing there's some multi-path signals that the TiVo can't eliminate that other tuners don't have trouble with, but severely attenuating the signal knocks the multipath signal down below the threshold.

I also found channel deletion filters on E-bay that are quite reasonably priced, but they knock the signal down by 55dB+, which even given my super-hot +20dB signal would put it below reception range.

Also check out the Canadian company Tin Lee (tinlee dot com). They sell all kinds of filters & traps.
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post #5924 of 5943 Old 11-04-2019, 07:49 PM
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Anybody having trouble with WISC-TV (CBS) ? It is worse than WMTV (NBC) for me now - lots of corruption pretty regularly. Strangely, I didn't see any problems on WMSN (FOX) when I briefly checked, and they're all about the same signal strength and frequency after the repack.

I did pop the Bolt apart and checked the solder connection on the RF input - it was fine, though a reflowed it anyway just to be sure. No change.

The notch filter hasn't arrived yet, but if WISC continues to have problems I might need two. An HD HomeRun and Plex is starting to look better and better.

Last edited by Saturn49; 11-04-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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post #5925 of 5943 Old 11-04-2019, 09:41 PM
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Things should improve once the new antennas are in place and the waveguides installed.

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post #5926 of 5943 Old 11-07-2019, 12:32 AM
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Hey Mattymo, any idea what the sale of the Fox affiliate in Milwaukee to Fox is going to do with your programming being served out of Milwaukee?

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post #5927 of 5943 Old 11-07-2019, 07:06 AM
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Things should improve once the new antennas are in place and the waveguides installed.

No waveguide anymore, only coax.
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post #5928 of 5943 Old 11-07-2019, 07:07 AM
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Hey Mattymo, any idea what the sale of the Fox affiliate in Milwaukee to Fox is going to do with your programming being served out of Milwaukee?

has nothing to do with us, the Sinclair station in Milwaukee is not WITI.
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post #5929 of 5943 Old 11-07-2019, 03:42 PM
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No waveguide anymore, only coax.
That's neat. UHF over coax. Probably makes installation a lot easier and cheaper.

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post #5930 of 5943 Old 11-07-2019, 03:44 PM
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has nothing to do with us, the Sinclair station in Milwaukee is not WITI.
I knew something was fishy.

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post #5931 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 09:20 AM
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Are there any updates posted anywhere on the antenna upgrade for TV-3 WISC? I’ve searched around and come up empty. I’m wondering if they’re going to meet that December 8th install date. I know the weather’s been awful so I’m wondering if they’re behind schedule.
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post #5932 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 09:37 AM
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Are there any updates posted anywhere on the antenna upgrade for TV-3 WISC? I’ve searched around and come up empty. I’m wondering if they’re going to meet that December 8th install date. I know the weather’s been awful so I’m wondering if they’re behind schedule.

WISC filed an extension application on Oct. 16th, requesting April 15, 2020 for the CP completion date. The CP extension was granted.


https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...601a7&goBack=N

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post #5933 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 09:56 AM
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Thanks for the wonderful news that I won’t be watching channel 3 ‘til next spring at the earliest. This is all really disappointing and aggravating that it seems they don’t care about over the air viewers. This FCC repack has been in the works for a long time and it seems WISC dropped the ball here. Yeah, the weather has been bad and there are only a few crews in the nation that can complete the upgrade. It’s all sour grapes from where I’m at without a watchable signal.
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post #5934 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for the wonderful news that I won’t be watching channel 3 ‘til next spring at the earliest. This is all really disappointing and aggravating that it seems they don’t care about over the air viewers. This FCC repack has been in the works for a long time and it seems WISC dropped the ball here. Yeah, the weather has been bad and there are only a few crews in the nation that can complete the upgrade. It’s all sour grapes from where I’m at without a watchable signal.

It appears that Beloit is IN the WISC-TV primary contour area...
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....8bb455a&site=1

WISC-TV broadcasts on RF 11 and remaps to virtual 3. Are you using a VHF antenna for their signal? Even with the new antenna that they install, it doesn't look like the contour pattern will increase all that much...
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....3001775&site=1

Jim - Springfield, Missouri

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post #5935 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 10:32 AM
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Thanks for the wonderful news that I won’t be watching channel 3 ‘til next spring at the earliest. This is all really disappointing and aggravating that it seems they don’t care about over the air viewers. This FCC repack has been in the works for a long time and it seems WISC dropped the ball here. Yeah, the weather has been bad and there are only a few crews in the nation that can complete the upgrade. It’s all sour grapes from where I’m at without a watchable signal.
That is, of course, not at all what the document means. Their drop-dead transition date was 10/18, so they had to file an extension request in advance of that date. They did so, and requested the maximum amount of time the FCC would grant them. That is not a guarantee that all of the time will be necessary.

The best way to find out would be to contact one of the station engineers. (Assuming one does not read and reply?) WIFS seems to be done, as far as I can tell, while WMSN and WISC remain outstanding.

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post #5936 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 03:15 PM
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Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I’m using a rooftop VHF antenna that I had to buy solely because of WISC switching to VHF. I always got them just fine on my old antenna that was only UHF. I get all the other Madison WI channels that are on the same tower. WISC’s temporary antenna is 50’ lower than their old antenna.

I was basically wondering if their new antenna upgrade progress was posted anywhere. I didn’t want to bother the engineers directly. I’d guess they’ve heard plenty of complaints already. I was hoping one of the local news agencies might have posted a newer article than the ones already in this thread.

It's going to be a long winter.
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post #5937 of 5943 Old 12-02-2019, 11:08 PM
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Thanks for the responses.

I was basically wondering if their new antenna upgrade progress was posted anywhere. I didn’t want to bother the engineers directly. I’d guess they’ve heard plenty of complaints already. I was hoping one of the local news agencies might have posted a newer article than the ones already in this thread.
There's a link at the top of WISC's web page (channel3000.com) "Update, FAQ on WISC-TV frequency change" https://www.channel3000.com/content/...nge/1147515491

The article was updated Monday night and states:

The tower crew contracted to provide work on WISC-TV’s frequency change is scheduled to be on site the week of December 2. We anticipate the remaining work to take a couple of weeks and hope to be again transmitting from the top of the tower by mid-December. This is somewhat dependent on the weather which is why we cannot provide a firm date.

When the work is complete, we will inform you via Channel3000 and our social media channels and ask you to rescan again. We will provide updates on this page as we learn more information.

Last edited by RonBurgundy; 12-02-2019 at 11:14 PM.
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post #5938 of 5943 Old 12-03-2019, 09:44 AM
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When the work is complete, we will inform you via Channel3000 and our social media channels and ask you to rescan again.
No rescan necessary if you are currently receiving them. If you aren't, then you will need to rescan to see if you can get them.

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post #5939 of 5943 Old 12-05-2019, 05:57 PM
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Wheel of Fortune contestant

On tomorrow's show (12/06/2019), there is a contestant from Madison. Tune in and see how she does.
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post #5940 of 5943 Old Yesterday, 08:51 PM
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Miss my Madison CBS

I installed the WINEGARD HD9095P UHF High-Gain 39-Element HDTV Antenna back in 2015, and have been enjoying all of the Madison stations on my Tivo.
Lost WISC Ch 3 in October? due to the mandated changes.
If I'm reading these posts correctly, I will have to install another antenna because WISC will be VHF? If that's the case, is there an antenna that would pick up all of the Madison channels (uhf and vhf) from Baraboo? Will I have to install a 2nd antenna on my mast for WISC?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this. Sucks paying $50 a month for Youtube Tv.
I'm retired, and can only throw so many dollars into my entertainment. Also rapidly running out of days where I can climb on the roof before it is snow covered.

Last edited by tahoe77; Yesterday at 08:55 PM.
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