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post #3871 of 3886 Old 11-20-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kthelen View Post
Potentially. It's much more dynamic with this new setup (no arbitrary high/low limits that I'm aware of), but NBC will get "first dibs" in times of peak demand.
sounds good

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People keep being confused by the lack of audio. Guess I should feed it something :-)
Any audio is better than nothing

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This was an unknown for some time, with the likelihood of 24/7 looking rather strong for a while there. But the current schedule seems to indicate nightly sign-off, with things handled much as they are on KEYC. Seems likely NBC will carry weather graphics overnight; not sure about CW+ (though, depending on where/if it gets cable carriage, that might be a moot point).
good to know. I know the CW+ has paid programs from 1am-6am and NBC varies but the programming looks like rerun of Hoda & Jenna and then "Early Today". So not missing much

Any info on the syndicated programming NBC will have? I know before the syndicated season started Kelly Clarkson show had Mankato listed as an affiliate (still does as of today) but it says KEYC FOX at 4pm which is obviously wrong.

Thanks for all the info! Its much appreciated

Tony
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post #3872 of 3886 Old 11-24-2019, 09:06 AM
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So I see the RCA preamp that @mattdp and myself have suggested a few times is on sale this week at menards (actually for 2 weeks)

Only thing I noticed (at least at the one in Mankato) is the combined input only. There is no separate inputs for VHF & UHF. Checked all 12 they had on the shelf.

I did check at Fleet Farm (which for me is across the street from Menards) and they still had the "older" model available.
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post #3873 of 3886 Old 11-24-2019, 05:27 PM
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RCA Preamps: I started seeing the single-input models the other week. Grabbed EMT and a preamp before the job, got on site, opened the box and *record scratch* it was ...single input. I've found some dual-input models still in stock at other Menards locations (some of the closer-in locations don't sell that many models and/or have a lot of returned units on the shelves).

I do mostly dual-antenna setups (4-bay UHF/medium VHF-Hi antennas in suburbia, usually with a PCT 15dB amp and 91 element UHF yagis/large VHF-Hi antennas in rural areas, usually with an RCA preamp). As such, I order UVSJs in quantity, so the single input thing was no big deal for me.

Just a word on those RCA's - the UHF sections in particular WILL overload from too much level, be it TV or LTE. Unless you're behind a hill or something, I wouldn't use them at locations under about 30 mi from Shoreview (substituting in PCT/Channel Master 15dB distribution amps - they're pretty hard to overload). I put one in (w/LTE filter) on a 4-bay/medium VHF-Hi in Farmington, thinking I was far enough away. The fact that I had channels off the screen on the bottom scale of my spectrum analyzer should've clued me in. VHF-Hi's were fine, but only the high power UHFs would come in and even then, KTCA was pixelating. Tried another RCA - same results. After installing a PCT 15dB amp, we were seeing ALL TC channels AND the WPT translator from River Falls. Did another one in Becker where the addition of an LTE filter got rid of pixelation on some of the LPs, stabilized/increased SNRs across the board and brought in several LPs there weren't even scanning previously.


(Just as an aside - As an installer, I stock of all kinds of parts purchased in quantity, many of which you won't find a local retail. DIYers feel free to PM me if you're looking for stuff like: UHF/VHF combiners, MLP-600 LTE filters, Power injector tees, power-passing splitters, PCT 15dB distribution amps, PPC Aquatight connectors, FM traps, Stellar Labs antennas/mounting hardware, FTA hardware, etc.)


CH 13: Everybody keeps forgetting about analog WCMN-LP 13 in St. Cloud. Never tested to see just how far it goes, but I've seen it at least as far as Rice and Foreston.
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post #3874 of 3886 Old 11-24-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
As such, I order UVSJs in quantity, so the single input thing was no big deal for me.
Where do you get them? I know newark has their version and I saw on Ebay that ness electronics has some on there for $15. I have a couple older USVJ's from solid signal if I recall. Havent needed one in a while as when I lived in LeSueur I used the RCA Pre-amp for the combiner
(not that I need any considering only can get KEYC & KMNF but I may be doing an install at the lake house on Mille Lacs if I convince my dad to let me)

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(Just as an aside - As an installer, I stock of all kinds of parts purchased in quantity, many of which you won't find a local retail. DIYers feel free to PM me if you're looking for stuff like: UHF/VHF combiners, MLP-600 LTE filters, Power injector tees, power-passing splitters, PCT 15dB distribution amps, PPC Aquatight connectors, FM traps, Stellar Labs antennas/mounting hardware, FTA hardware, etc.)
Are the PCT amps 15db if there are 2 outputs? I have a CM3412 and the outputs are 11db. I'd like if they made a 15db one with 2 outputs so I can run both Tivos and have **max** signal for my stations
(if I didnt live in the apartment I'd put up the 30-2476 up I have....but alas its a older Antennacraft Y5-7-13 that fits on the deck)

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CH 13: Everybody keeps forgetting about analog WCMN-LP 13 in St. Cloud. Never tested to see just how far it goes, but I've seen it at least as far as Rice and Foreston.
I thought it was off the air? Nothing in the FCC doc's state that though...last is a license to cover in 2002 I see in 2014 they resumed operations but northpine says they are silent

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post #3875 of 3886 Old 11-24-2019, 07:42 PM
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I got a quantity of ASKA UVSJs from The Electronic Goldmine for $3 apiece, shipping included. I've got a

The PCT amps all have 15dB gain. Multiple output versions have an internal splitter after that 15dB amplifier, so the level out the other end will be lower than +15dB. I usually only stock/install the single output version, because a splitter (even a power-passing model) and a single output amp is cheaper than a multi-output model by itself, especially the 8-way ones.

I'd have to look it up, but I've been told that all remaining analog stations will have to cease operations next year. I've seen it online every time I've been up that way, most recently about a month ago. Playing Les Feldick DVDs and sometimes a DVD player splash screen. I have a few systems in St. Cloud that get clear, static-free reception. (Attached pics of received picture and 9/11/13 on my AVCOM)
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post #3876 of 3886 Old 11-25-2019, 07:32 AM
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Interesting this morning KMNF wasnt on the air when I checked at 6am. Just KEYC was. Tivo stores the last 30 minutes of the signal and 7-2 showed like 1:01am last time there was a signal.

Maybe they are getting it ready to sign on the 2 new networks today? (here's hoping)
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post #3877 of 3886 Old 11-25-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

The PCT amps all have 15dB gain. Multiple output versions have an internal splitter after that 15dB amplifier, so the level out the other end will be lower than +15dB. I usually only stock/install the single output version, because a splitter (even a power-passing model) and a single output amp is cheaper than a multi-output model by itself, especially the 8-way ones.
good to know. I might try a regular splitter to see how much signal is dropped. Its KMNF I want the best signal for (at least a strong signal)

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I'd have to look it up, but I've been told that all remaining analog stations will have to cease operations next year.
I think you're right. I think its after the repack...maybe its a year after the repack to get those few stations moved over. Other then WCMN-LP I know there are a couple analog translators relaying KSAX (well now KSTP). Park Rapids, Wadena and I think Bemidji
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post #3878 of 3886 Old 11-25-2019, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
Interesting this morning KMNF wasnt on the air when I checked at 6am. Just KEYC was. Tivo stores the last 30 minutes of the signal and 7-2 showed like 1:01am last time there was a signal.

Maybe they are getting it ready to sign on the 2 new networks today? (here's hoping)
false alarm...back on the "test mode" when I got home. The loop on 7-1 and WX maps (which will come in handy tomorrow night) on 7-2
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post #3879 of 3886 Old 11-28-2019, 06:17 AM
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So yesterday the Tivo did its normal update but added programming info to KMNF 7-1 NBC (7-2 CW+ has had guide info for a while as its just the national CW+ feed). Scrolling through I was like "WTF...they're basically showing the same shows they already have on FOX"...then looked closer. Oh boy now I get why @kthelen said to get a good antenna up. They moved shows from KEYC-DT2 FOX to KMNF-LD1 NBC

weekday schedule starting 12/2
sign on at 4:30
4:30 Early Today
5:00 Early Today
5:30 KEYC Morning news (simulcast from KEYC)
7-11 Today Show
11:00 Family Feud (moves from 3:00 FOX)
11:30 Family Feud (moves from 3:30 FOX)
noon Rachael (moves from 9am FOX Mankato)
1:00 Days of our Lives
2:00 Kelly Clarkson (new show)
3:00 Hot Bench (moves from noon FOX)
3:30 Hot Bench (moves from 12:30 FOX)
4:00 Judge Judy (moves from 1:00 FOX) (wondered why my Tivo didnt show new episodes recording on FOX..this is why)
4:30 Judge Judy (moves from 1:30 FOX)
5:00 Judge Judy
5:30 National News
6:00 Jeopardy (moves from 4:00 FOX)
6:30 Family Feud
7-10 National Programming
10:00 News (simulcast from KEYC)
10:35-1:03 National Programming
sign off at 1:03 (Keith mentioned previously that they might go 24/7 but decided not to)

so FOX Mankato's schedule changes with new additions not cleared in Mankato previously
sign on at 5am
5:00 Shepherd's Chapel
6:00 AgDay
6:30 Divorce Court
7:00 The Doctors
8:00 Dr. Oz
9:00 Mel Robbins (new show)
10:00 Protection Court
10:30 Protection Court
11:00 People's Court
Noon Judge Mathis (new show)
1:00 People's Court (2nd run)
2:00 Funny You Should Ask
2:30 Funny You Should Ask
3:00 25 Words or Less (new show)
3:30 America Says (new show)
4:00 Family Feud
4:30 Jeopardy (Daytime version...the one from a year ago)
5:00 on is same schedule as what is currently the schedule

Looks like I have to switch some timers around
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post #3880 of 3886 Old 12-01-2019, 07:11 AM
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as promised KMNF-LD went LIVE this morning with NBC on 7-1 and CW on 7-2

They are using the slogan "KEYC NBC" for 7-1. I noticed 7-2 has the "KMNF-LD Mankato" ID on the screen all the time

some screengrabs
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post #3881 of 3886 Old 12-01-2019, 09:47 AM
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so with the official sign on of KMNF Mankato is no longer part of an "exclusive" group of one station DMA's.

Zanesville, OH (WHIZ 18-1 NBC & 18-2 Cozi) and KXGN Glendive, MT (5-1 CBS & 5-2 NBC) are the last two.
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post #3882 of 3886 Old 12-01-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
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I noticed 7-2 has the "KMNF-LD Mankato" ID on the screen all the time
Turned out CW+ didn't provide the sort of triggers we were expecting. We had a proper fix planned, but the needed "stuff" didn't arrive in time. The easiest answer to beat the clock was just to leave the legal ID up continuously. I have a temporary fix in the works for tonight, and am hoping the actual "stuff" arrives later this week.


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They are using the slogan "KEYC NBC" for 7-1
That's the new strategy - call everything "KEYC (name of network)". I expect the other services will roll out similar names and graphics in the weeks to come. (KEYC CW+, KEYC CBS, KEYC FOX, KEYC News, etc)

I also wouldn't be surprised if KMNF's calls get changed to KEYC-LD in the coming months, and/or if the virtual channel numbering is changed so that all suchannels appear as 12.something. (I will be leaving the stations at the end of this year, so I am not privy to any timelines beyond the end of December.)



--Keith
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post #3883 of 3886 Old 12-01-2019, 01:32 PM
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Turned out CW+ didn't provide the sort of triggers we were expecting. We had a proper fix planned, but the needed "stuff" didn't arrive in time. The easiest answer to beat the clock was just to leave the legal ID up continuously. I have a temporary fix in the works for tonight, and am hoping the actual "stuff" arrives later this week.
gotta love when you do all that testing....only to have something not go right

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That's the new strategy - call everything "KEYC (name of network)". I expect the other services will roll out similar names and graphics in the weeks to come. (KEYC CW+, KEYC CBS, KEYC FOX, KEYC News, etc)

I also wouldn't be surprised if KMNF's calls get changed to KEYC-LD in the coming months, and/or if the virtual channel numbering is changed so that all suchannels appear as 12.something.
interesting about the PSIP. I remember we talked about that last year
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post57291152

If Gray does change the callsign that station has gone through alot of callsigns in a short time
K38MY-D -----> K13AAR -----> K07AAH ---->KMNF-LD ----->possible KEYC-LD

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(I will be leaving the stations at the end of this year, so I am not privy to any timelines beyond the end of December.)
bummer. You've been a great wealth of information into the "internal aspect" of KEYC/KMNF.

By the way...what kind of Mbps are the NBC & CW running? Just wondered.

Tony
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post #3884 of 3886 Old 12-01-2019, 08:08 PM
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By the way...what kind of Mbps are the NBC & CW running? Just wondered.
Unlike in the past, it's totally dynamic. Different bosses with different goals lead to different configs ;-)

For KEYC, minimum/maximum bitrates and prioritization of services were all limiting factors in how we were allowing the encoder (a Harmonic 9200) to operate. The goal was to be letter-of-the-law compliant with network rules of the time (which defined specific bandwidth requirements), while making room to air two HD services at once - and that it did.

For KMNF, there are no artificial limitations, so it's much simpler: NBC gets high priority, CW+ gets moderate priority, and a future SD subchannel on 7.3 gets lower priority. The encoder (a Harmonic X2S) is otherwise free to do its thing - and in the end, the numbers end up wherever they end up.

Interestingly enough, the times are a-changin' for KEYC's encoding chain as well. I expect you'll see a similar setup appear on the Big One-Two before the end of the year.

Long story short: hopefully in 2020, you'll never again see FOX looking bit-starved on a two game Sunday!


--Keith
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post #3885 of 3886 Old 12-02-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kthelen View Post
Interestingly enough, the times are a-changin' for KEYC's encoding chain as well. I expect you'll see a similar setup appear on the Big One-Two before the end of the year.

Long story short: hopefully in 2020, you'll never again see FOX looking bit-starved on a two game Sunday!
good to know because yesterday FOX looked terrible in some shots..pixelated mushy mess (it was after FOX switched to the Miami/Eagles bonus coverage)

Glad to see that Gray is "moving forward" with changes...for the good
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post #3886 of 3886 Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM
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Anybody know what's going on with KJNK-LD or K33LN-D?

Both are transmitting a carrier.
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