LaCrosse / Wausau, WI - HDTV - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Paullys50 View Post

I've got charter, but I'm using my QAM tuner to pick up fox/abc/cbs/abc through their cable network (I'm in Chippewa Falls). I'm VERY geeked about fox finally being in hd...albeit after the packer season...

Very good quality! Although I do think I'm starting to notice a slight difference between 1080i and 720p....but I could be talking out of my ass.

I am not sure about the 720p or 1080I with charter, but with dish it really doesnt seem to make a difference in my opinion.
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post #662 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sregener View Post

I'm not 100% sure of this, but it would surprise me if Dish is really sending the locals to their central office. Spot-beams work two ways - up and down. So the uplink can happen locally, meaning no need to send the signal all the way out to Colorado to get it up to the bird.

If, on the other hand, Dish was really carting all their LiL signals to their central office, they'd have to turn around and send them right back - they'd run out of uplink space long before they'd cover the country with LiL.

All of this assumes that Dish is using Spot beams.

S:

What I believe is going on is this;

Dish is "fibering" the cumulative signals of the La Crosse/Eau Claire Market and getting it to either Colorado or some other uplink site...either -via- T3, Fiber, "spot-beam" or whatever...they have to get the signals to some point to be able to "code it," shoot 'em up and then back down...They also have a serious control area where they measure and monitor basic parameters of EACH station on their "birds/systems" and will call a particular stations' rep. if something does go out of "whack" with the video and/or the audio...I know...I've been called quite a few times, a few even before my operators have had a chance to call me first!

Now, as I understand it, DirecTV (at least in this market) acts as a "reseller" for DishNet's product...which, in this case, is all the TV Stations currently on DishNet's bird. They don't tell you that...it would seem a bit "whacky" - but then, what's new?

So, S, you could be right...regardless, Dish has the "Big Office" in Colorado and their TOC is in the same area...one way or another...they can get the information, required for authorization of receivers and such, out to each customers' dish and enable the programming to be viewed...either muxing the signals as an 'overlay' of control over programming or ????

Anyways, if someone from the Dish or DirecTV group wants to jump in a explain it, that would be more preferred than guessing as to how the whole process works...


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #663 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Schlar01 View Post

I got home only to find that my OTA setup is not getting the signal. I do get CBS and ABC signals here in Holmen, though, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Antennaweb.org does show it as available for my address. The compass orientation is only 1 degree (217) different than ABC (216) so it seems like it should just work. The distance away is only a few tenths of a mile different than the others, as well. Any ideas? I have DirecTV and re-did the OTA setup but it shows a 3% signal strength. I don't think I can move the antenna around much as it is zip-tied to the dish.

First...get rid of that zip-tied antenna arrangement...get a real antenna. Did DirecTV charge you for that? How much? AND, if the "bird" that their dish is looking at is not in the same vertical plane that our tower is located at...you're not even aimed correctly.

Go back to Antennaweb.org and pick out the APPROPRIATE OUTDOOR ANTENNA for your address and put that outside and as high as possible, pointed in the correct direction...THAT should correct the "weak" signal issue enough that there should be enough to light up the bar and give you a picture.

Otherwise, PM me with your address and phone and we'll talk later this week.


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #664 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NoFoxHD View Post

I'm getting it perfect near the Town of Holland Airport. (North of Holmen) Directional antenna IN my garage.

You'd get a much better/stronger signal IF the antenna was mounted OUTSIDE of the garage and at least 5-10 feet above the asphalt shingles of that roof...


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #665 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Schlar01 View Post

What direction is your antenna facing? It seems odd that my antenna can pick the others up just fine but not Fox.

WLAX-DT is broadcasting with 2.49kW of power...peanut power compared to WXOW-DT, WKBT-DT, WEAU-DT and WHLA-DT.

As I stated in various posts (many months ago), WLAX has to refurbish the current tower we're broadcasting from now. Until the weather clears, the refurbishing can't begin...

Within the coming few months, WLAX will be installing the new high-powered transmitter and when the refurbishing is completed, a new digital antenna will be installed on the tower, connections will be made from the xmtr., to the new transmission line, and then, to the new antenna...BIG BUCK$$$$$$$!

( That sucking sound, you hear in the backround, isn't your mother's HOOVER!!! )

The FCC is getting close to approving a CP (construction permit) that needed to be filed this past winter. Once that's done, then the weather has to "clear" enough that the rest of the projects can be started and pushed to completion...hopefully before the end of August...


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #666 of 1634 Old 01-30-2008, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by btb79 View Post

I too am having the same problem as Schlar01. I have always been able to get the SD channel 25, but the picture has I think what you call "ghosting". I tuned to channel 17 and I get nothing. Is 17 the right channel?

I have a Zenith ZHDTV1Z indoor antenna resting above the ductwork in my basement. I can get WKBT, WXOW, and PBS. I live between Holmen and Onalaska. I plan to try moving my antenna around tonight, but am I fighting a losing battle. Is there a better indoor antenna to use? Would the attic be better? My wife does not want an outdoor antenna.

NoFoxHD, what kind of antennas are you using? How are they mounted? Is 13.1 the NBC HD feed?

mgburg, does WLAX plan on boosting the power?

Thanks,
Bill


First...WLAX is working on getting the power "boosted" - see the other posts I have just made...

Second...rescan your channels...I believe that because we've gone from SD to HD and the PIDS information has changed, your receiver might not recognize 25.1 as the SD channel anymore and will regard it as an OOM (out of market) signal.

25.1 will/should show up as HD and 25.2 will show up as the old SD format. Same programming on .1 and .2, but different definitions.

BTW, the .2 is more for the cable companies that don't have HD gear in place and for when the transition to Digital takes effect on 17 Feb.'09, they may be using the .2 to down-convert to NTSC for their customers that haven't jumped on the "digi-bandwagon" by that time...


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #667 of 1634 Old 01-31-2008, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

WLAX-DT is broadcasting with 2.49kW of power...peanut power compared to WXOW-DT, WKBT-DT, WEAU-DT and WHLA-DT.

As I stated in various posts (many months ago), WLAX has to refurbish the current tower we're broadcasting from now. Until the weather clears, the refurbishing can't begin...

Within the coming few months, WLAX will be installing the new high-powered transmitter and when the refurbishing is completed, a new digital antenna will be installed on the tower, connections will be made from the xmtr., to the new transmission line, and then, to the new antenna...BIG BUCK$$$$$$$!

( That sucking sound, you hear in the backround, isn't your mother's HOOVER!!! )

The FCC is getting close to approving a CP (construction permit) that needed to be filed this past winter. Once that's done, then the weather has to "clear" enough that the rest of the projects can be started and pushed to completion...hopefully before the end of August...


Thanks for the response. I can probably wait for the new power upgrade if its done this summer. I don't know much about the antenna but I had it installed with my DirecTV dishes by Dean's Satellite. I'll PM you a photo. I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable swapping it out myself. I'll take a closer look once its warm enough for me to actually want to go outside
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post #668 of 1634 Old 01-31-2008, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sammy4041 View Post

How is the quality through charter.

I am thinking about adding there very basic service along with my dish.

On 785, the quality is quite good. My TV is telling me it's a 1080i signal through Charter. Is that true, or just my tv upconverting it from 720p? Kinda dumb when it comes to this stuff.

ETA: The quality is actually not as up to par as I first thought. When comparing it to ESPN HD, the picture quality is not even close IMO. Maybe it will take a while for the signal to get better. :dunno
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post #669 of 1634 Old 01-31-2008, 04:56 PM
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I have Charter basic cable and am unable to receive FOX in HD in Merrill (Wausau) on QAM. I know it is on channel 74.1 but both my Samsung tuner and my LCD tv's qam tuner pass right over it. I do get the other locals in the 90's and 100.1 Im guessing this is because I don't have access to 74.1 with basic cable. Any thoughts?
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post #670 of 1634 Old 02-01-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonse View Post

On 785, the quality is quite good. My TV is telling me it's a 1080i signal through Charter. Is that true, or just my tv upconverting it from 720p? Kinda dumb when it comes to this stuff.

ETA: The quality is actually not as up to par as I first thought. When comparing it to ESPN HD, the picture quality is not even close IMO. Maybe it will take a while for the signal to get better. :dunno

My guess is you were not watching a High Definition show. (Based on the times of your post/edit, and the fact that the Standard Definition is being stretched to fill the screen during times other than 7-9 pm, which may have tricked you into thinking it was HD at first glance).

In my opinion, the HD I have seen on Fox 25 (through Charter on 785) has looked great so far. (so far I have seen some of American Idol, and a couple game shows). Good job Mark, and Fox.
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post #671 of 1634 Old 02-01-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

First...WLAX is working on getting the power "boosted" - see the other posts I have just made...

Second...rescan your channels...I believe that because we've gone from SD to HD and the PIDS information has changed, your receiver might not recognize 25.1 as the SD channel anymore and will regard it as an OOM (out of market) signal.

25.1 will/should show up as HD and 25.2 will show up as the old SD format. Same programming on .1 and .2, but different definitions.

BTW, the .2 is more for the cable companies that don't have HD gear in place and for when the transition to Digital takes effect on 17 Feb.'09, they may be using the .2 to down-convert to NTSC for their customers that haven't jumped on the "digi-bandwagon" by that time...


I tried moving my antenna around upstairs and here are the results. I found a spot in which I could get channel 25(analog?) in nice and clear. I then rescanned the channels and the TV found a few more, but not 25.1 or 25.2. BTW, I can actually type in 25-1 to manually change the channel but nothing happens. It also seems that no matter what I do with the antenna, short of unplugging it, I can get WXOW-DT and WBKT-DT just fine. Do I need to do anything special with the TV before I rescan?

Is the channel 25 I'm getting the analog channel?
Is this a different transmitter than the one for 25.1 and 25.2?
Does it have more power than the new one?
Is it realistic to expect to be able to pick up a 2.49kW signal anywhere but right next to the tower?
Can anyone else in the Holmen area pickup 25.1 and 25.2 with an OTA antenna?

Thank you all for your responses and enjoy watching the Super Bowl in HD.
Bill
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post #672 of 1634 Old 02-01-2008, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by btb79 View Post

Is the channel 25 I'm getting the analog channel?
Is this a different transmitter than the one for 25.1 and 25.2?
Does it have more power than the new one?
Is it realistic to expect to be able to pick up a 2.49kW signal anywhere but right next to the tower?
Can anyone else in the Holmen area pickup 25.1 and 25.2 with an OTA antenna?

If you see "snow" or "ghosting" when you aim your antenna in directions that are not "nice and clear" the answer is that you're getting the analog channel.

Yes, WLAX-DT (which is broadcasting on channel 17) is a different transmitter.

WLAX analog has much more power than WLAX digital at this time.

You can see the FCC's projected coverage here: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DS1032166.html

As for your particular reception, I'm guessing you need a good outdoor antenna pointed at the tower. Of course, if you're physically blocked by bluffs or hills, I doubt you'll get anything. The fact you get a good picture on WLAX analog, though, suggests you have a shot with an outdoor antenna.

Once WLAX increases their digital transmitting power, an indoor antenna should suffice.
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post #673 of 1634 Old 02-01-2008, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Micah008 View Post

My guess is you were not watching a High Definition show. (Based on the times of your post/edit, and the fact that the Standard Definition is being stretched to fill the screen during times other than 7-9 pm, which may have tricked you into thinking it was HD at first glance).

In my opinion, the HD I have seen on Fox 25 (through Charter on 785) has looked great so far. (so far I have seen some of American Idol, and a couple game shows). Good job Mark, and Fox.

Well tonight for instance, House was on at 8 pm (assuming that was HD). Compared it to Channel 3, and there was not a great difference like there is with other local channels. For instance, WEAU tonight (Ch. 13 & 783). Compared Friday Night Lights. A world of difference to me. Really really sharp compared to Fox's HD. I guess the Super Bowl will be the real test.
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post #674 of 1634 Old 02-02-2008, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bonse View Post

Well tonight for instance, House was on at 8 pm (assuming that was HD). Compared it to Channel 3, and there was not a great difference like there is with other local channels. For instance, WEAU tonight (Ch. 13 & 783). Compared Friday Night Lights. A world of difference to me. Really really sharp compared to Fox's HD. I guess the Super Bowl will be the real test.

I agree that House didn't look like HD last night. I am not sure if it was supposed to be or not (I don't watch the show). But, American Idol (and others) have looked much better. We will see for sure on Sunday.

Even with the SD programming you can see a noticable improvement between the Analog and the Digital versions of the station. The colors are brighter, skin tones are more natural, there is no ghosting, and the audio is stereo instead of mono. (The audio with HD I even noticed as DD 5.1, which I wasn't expecting... since ABC still isn't doing 5.1 after years of HD)

The only negative I have seen is that they are ~sometimes~ stretching the SD content to fill the screen, which I find very annoying, and unnecessary. I noticed this a couple days ago, but then they weren't doing it yesterday (5:00 pm, 2-1), and now they are stretching it again (7:30 am, 2-2).
I hope they just leave the 4:3 content alone, and let people fill their screen on their own if they desire that 'look', or have screen issues that require it. Let the viewer choose, not the broadcast. If nothing else, it makes their newscasters look about 30 pounds heavier... which I would guess they are not thrilled with

Looking forward to an HD Superbowl... and Packer season in the fall!
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post #675 of 1634 Old 02-02-2008, 05:54 AM
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This is a good website to see what is on in High Definition.
http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/whatson.ph...Central%20Time

As you can see, there is actually nothing on Fox today in HD.
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post #676 of 1634 Old 02-02-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Micah008 View Post

The only negative I have seen is that they are ~sometimes~ stretching the SD content to fill the screen, which I find very annoying, and unnecessary. I noticed this a couple days ago, but then they weren't doing it yesterday (5:00 pm, 2-1), and now they are stretching it again (7:30 am, 2-2).

Exactly! WEAU doesn't seem to do this with most of their programming, yet last night Fox seemed to be stretching it. Hate that.
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post #677 of 1634 Old 02-02-2008, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bonse View Post

Well tonight for instance, House was on at 8 pm (assuming that was HD). Compared it to Channel 3, and there was not a great difference like there is with other local channels. For instance, WEAU tonight (Ch. 13 & 783). Compared Friday Night Lights. A world of difference to me. Really really sharp compared to Fox's HD. I guess the Super Bowl will be the real test.

Hmm, not sure what to say about this. I have USA HD through DirecTV and the older episodes of House are definitely in HD.

Edit: I watched an episode last night that wasn't in HD but I know I have seen other episodes of House in HD.
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post #678 of 1634 Old 02-03-2008, 03:24 PM
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Charter is really driving me crazy. I was excited since I was in Chippewa Falls this weekend and saw that Fox 25/48, WEAU, and WKBT were added as local HD channels. I returned home to Rice Lake, where I also have Charter and these are also the local channels. No HD! Why does Chippewa get them and not Rice Lake, since they are the locals for both cities?
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post #679 of 1634 Old 02-03-2008, 07:32 PM
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Thanks FOX 25/48!! And to the Packers, who may have helped speed this along.....?? Anyhow, a very enjoyable SB XLII in HD!
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post #680 of 1634 Old 02-03-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bonse View Post

Exactly! WEAU doesn't seem to do this with most of their programming, yet last night Fox seemed to be stretching it. Hate that.

We were doing what we were told to do...

It should be straightened out now...

Also...some of the wiring was NOT the way it ended up being...FOX gave us some "out of date" data and that resulted in some "non-switched" scenarios for the the HD/Non-HD programming...

It got straightened out Saturday afternoon/evening...

Keep watching and bitchin'!


Respectfully,

Mark
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post #681 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

Keep watching and bitchin'!


I'll take the bait. Been waiting patiently for years for FOX HD. Denied waivers through Directv several times. Called to talk to engineer several times never to return my calls. Arrogant attitude by the station management.

So now I am pumped, finally HD for the Superbowl! Only to find no signal available apparently because of pathetically low power level. Was able to get 25.1 SD before this without problem here in Onalaska and always get 19.1 and 31.1 with 100% signal strength. Now apparently being told to put a powerful antenna on my roof. Horse----!
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post #682 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnA View Post

So now I am pumped, finally HD for the Superbowl! Only to find no signal available apparently because of pathetically low power level. Was able to get 25.1 SD before this without problem here in Onalaska and always get 19.1 and 31.1 with 100% signal strength. Now apparently being told to put a powerful antenna on my roof. Horse----!

Agreed, the signal is weak, but I'm also in Onalaska and was able to pull in the signal with an indoor antenna (with either the MANT940 or the PHDTV1 Silver Sensor - both by Philips) connected to my DTV HR20's OTA input. It took some positioning but I was able to get a clear signal for the entire game. I do have a fairly unrestricted view towards the La Crescent tower so that may be the difference in our reception abilities.

Hopefully DTV will add HD locals soon and I can ease my HD10-250 into a well-deserved retirement!

Larry
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post #683 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnA View Post

Only to find no signal available apparently because of pathetically low power level. Was able to get 25.1 SD before this without problem here in Onalaska and always get 19.1 and 31.1 with 100% signal strength. Now apparently being told to put a powerful antenna on my roof.

If you had no problems getting 25.1 SD (in other words, digital WLAX broadcasting on channel 17) then the problem is not your antenna or their power level. The problem is that your tuner has a "sticky" memory when it comes to PSIP data.

Simply put, when WLAX-DT switched to HD, there was no way to keep their PSIP information the same. PSIP information includes lovely little details like what part of the ATSC 8VSB stream is the video and what is the audio and how it is encoded and stuff like that.

Most tuners will reset the PSIP data if you tune to the real (not virtual) channel, in this case, 17.1. Some require a rescan. And those with really sticky memory require you to unplug the antenna, do a scan (finding nothing - which wipes out the memory) and then reinsert the antenna cable and do a second scan. If you follow all those steps (stopping once you get it to work) and then a problem still exists, it could be a tuner incompatibility issue between your receiver and the encoders that WLAX-DT is using, but those types of issues are quite rare these days.

Switching from SD to HD does absolutely nothing to reception in all but the most borderline of situations. Even then, you'd at least be getting a lock *some* of the time.
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post #684 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryRR View Post

Thanks FOX 25/48!! And to the Packers, who may have helped speed this along.....?? Anyhow, a very enjoyable SB XLII in HD!

To bad Fox 55 is not moving forward with their OTA signal, that would have been a great game to see in HD.
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post #685 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

Keep watching and bitchin'!


Hope you're joking because if you thought that was bitchin, then you haven't seen anything yet. By the way, the Fox SB in HD was ghetto faboulous! Excellent image throughout the entire game. Well done.
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post #686 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 01:46 PM
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To all,

The delays WLAX had in getting up to speed with HD were in no way due to problems with Charter Television.

Throughout this process, Charter has been a wonderful partner and did a great job getting our OTA signal up on channel 785 in EC and LaCrosse.

Regards,


Robert Weinstein
Station Manager
WLAX-WEUX
[email protected]

Respectfully,

Mark
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post #687 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

To all,

The delays WLAX had in getting up to speed with HD were in no way due to problems with Charter Television.

Throughout this process, Charter has been a wonderful partner and did a great job getting our OTA signal up on channel 785 in EC and LaCrosse.

Regards,


Robert Weinstein
Station Manager
WLAX-WEUX
[email protected]

Robert, any idea why Mediacom in the Prairie area isn't carrying your HD signal? Is there, or does there need to be an agreement in place of some sort?
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post #688 of 1634 Old 02-04-2008, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgburg View Post

Keep watching and bitchin'!


I'll bite as well... what the hell was up with squishing the damn screen during the final play of the Super Bowl, just to show the Fox 25/48 info!?! Damn, Fox, that was pretty f-ing weak.

But back on topic... glad to see the SD content is now displaying properly!
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post #689 of 1634 Old 02-05-2008, 08:27 PM
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Live in a high location in SW part of Rochester MN.
I have a tower and large antenna that GS Antenna setup, so it is a good system.
I normally receive Eau Claire probably 99% or the time with my setup.
For about a day now, I have not been able to get any signal on 13.1.
Check for signal strength which is usually good, and I get nothing.
Tweaked my rotor back and forth and still get no signal.
The old NTSC 13 is there pretty much as normal, snowy but
watchable. Anybody else seeing anything different with
this station?
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post #690 of 1634 Old 02-06-2008, 08:33 AM
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I live approximately 30 miles to the east of their tower and have been receiving their digital signal at around 85-90 %. Have not been able to get them for the past day or so either.
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