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post #61 of 1634 Old 02-07-2005, 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by elocs
As long as Voom is continueing on with business as usual I want to see about another antenna upgrade to get channel 13, but I need some suggestions as to what antenna to go with. From what I have read, channel 13 hd gets into downtown La Crosse and I am 2.5 miles closer than that.

I get WEAU-DT on a fairly regular basis here in Rochester, MN. I'm certain they'll reach the La Crosse area.

You have two problems. The first is that you need a second antenna (not a big deal) and the second is that you need a way to hook a second UHF antenna to the first without having conflicting problems. Normally, the way to do this would be to buy a Channel Master "Jointenna" for channel 39 (WEAU-DT's frequency) and you'd be done, but the filters have a bit of bleed, such that you might have problems with WKBT-DT on channel 41. It might be okay, and then again, it might not, especially as long as WKBT-DT stays at low power.

I'd consider a 4-bay bowtie antenna like the Channel Master 3021 or the AntennasDirect DB4. Either should get you a solid signal on WEAU-DT.

You may need to buy an A/B switch from Radio Shack to switch between the two antennas, though.

You *cannot* combine two UHF antennas and expect to get good results, unless you point them in the same direction and they are of exactly the same make.
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post #62 of 1634 Old 03-22-2005, 08:39 AM
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I pull WEAU in central Lacrosse (just of Cass).

My off-air setup consists of two antennas, both from Radio Shack. One is about a 75 mile range antenna pointed north, and the second is a smaller one pointed west. I use the jointenna mentioned above to combine the signal of the two antennas, but I don't think I'd need to. The JoinTenna blocks 39 on the west facing antenna. I don't worry about blocking/isolating for the other frequencies. In La Crosse, the PBS, ABC and CBS signals are so strong, that even with the interference generated by combining two signals with just a splitter/joiner, I still get good reception (the benefit of digital TV). I have found that the west facing antenna doesn't pick up the EauClaire station at all, so combining the signal with the north facing antenna doesn't really seem to generate any significant degeneration in the WEAU signal - thus the jointenna may be overkill. WEAU comes in reasonably well, but I do plan to add a pre-amp to offset the signal loss in my relatively long cable drop and the splitters I use inline. If I was installing a new antenna from scratch, I would put a decent pre-amp on the antenna you use to pick up Eau Claire.

I do have a tall, two-story house, and my view to the north is completely unobstructed, so I have an ideal situation for receiving WEAU. If you have a clear shot, you should have no trouble getting it with any variety of decent antenna selections.

Impaired Ale
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post #63 of 1634 Old 03-22-2005, 08:48 AM
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Is anyone in the Wausau area getting Fox in HD? I am able to get NBC out of Eau Claire, but I have been unable to pick up Fox from Madison or Green Bay. As mentioned above the WEAU-DT signal is very strong, I get about 85% on my Dish 811. I have heard varying reports of the strength of Green Bay and Madison's Fox stations, does anyone know what they are broadcasting at for sure?

I am currently using a Radio Shack 90-mile antenna on a rotator. Watching NASCAR in SD just isn't the same after you have seen it in HD. If anyone in my area is getting Fox in HD, let me know your set up please.
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post #64 of 1634 Old 03-22-2005, 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by Innova
I have heard varying reports of the strength of Green Bay and Madison's Fox stations, does anyone know what they are broadcasting at for sure?

According to the FCC database, WLUK-DT in Green Bay is at 360kw ERP. WMSN-DT in Madison is on hi-VHF channel 11, and is operating at their fully authorized 15kw, but that is biased away from Madison.

You can check predicted coverage areas here:

WLUK: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS612599.html
WMSN: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT620297.html

Note that WLUK's analog signal is a full-powered 316kw on channel 11, which will make it difficult for people close to Green Bay to get Madison's Fox digital signal.
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post #65 of 1634 Old 03-22-2005, 09:28 AM
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I think we are just screwed till FOX 55 goes digital in 2006!!
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post #66 of 1634 Old 03-22-2005, 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by lovebohn
I think we are just screwed till FOX 55 goes digital in 2006!!

Maybe not.....

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post #67 of 1634 Old 03-30-2005, 12:22 PM
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Well, spring is officially here and my emails to Dick Konrad at WKBT are going unanswered, so I thought I'd ask here.

Anyone have any idea when WKBT-DT will be going full-powered?
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post #68 of 1634 Old 04-15-2005, 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by sregener
Well, spring is officially here and my emails to Dick Konrad at WKBT are going unanswered, so I thought I'd ask here.

Anyone have any idea when WKBT-DT will be going full-powered?

Haven't heard anything yet. Waiting to put up my shiny new 4228....
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post #69 of 1634 Old 04-15-2005, 06:39 PM
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I live on the northside of La Crosse and a couple of months ago Voom approved me for an antenna upgrade so I could get channel 13, WEAU, Eau Claire. Before his appointment, the installer called me and said that I would never get ch. 13 because he had tried in my area and that I should switch to Dish so I could get all my locals. I cancelled the install because I didn't want someone like that doing work on my antenna. Two weeks ago I put up my own Channel Master 4228, the first time I have ever tried to install an antenna. It went perfect and, bam!, I had ch. 13 after moving the antenna once.

When Voom is gone in a couple of weeks I will go strictly with ota, using an LG 4200a. I am happy to have NBC now ota so I now also drop my basic Charter cable.
Channel 8 comes in good for me, but I am only about 17 miles away.
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post #70 of 1634 Old 04-16-2005, 06:55 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by elocs
I live on the northside of La Crosse and a couple of months ago Voom approved me for an antenna upgrade so I could get channel 13, WEAU, Eau Claire. Before his appointment, the installer called me and said that I would never get ch. 13 because he had tried in my area and that I should switch to Dish so I could get all my locals. I cancelled the install because I didn't want someone like that doing work on my antenna. Two weeks ago I put up my own Channel Master 4228, the first time I have ever tried to install an antenna. It went perfect and, bam!, I had ch. 13 after moving the antenna once.

When Voom is gone in a couple of weeks I will go strictly with ota, using an LG 4200a. I am happy to have NBC now ota so I now also drop my basic Charter cable.
Channel 8 comes in good for me, but I am only about 17 miles away.

Hey elocs,

Do you get the FOX 25 digital channel from where you are? Is the 480i SD picture look any better than their analog picture? FOX 48 in Eau Claire always has a worse analog picture than the rest of the channels. I'm hoping that their digital channel will at least look a little better. It really is a shame that there is no FOX HD whatsoever. I'm hoping that I might have a shot at the FOX 9 digital channel when I put my 4228 up.
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post #71 of 1634 Old 04-16-2005, 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by jimboeau
Hey elocs,

Do you get the FOX 25 digital channel from where you are? Is the 480i SD picture look any better than their analog picture? FOX 48 in Eau Claire always has a worse analog picture than the rest of the channels. I'm hoping that their digital channel will at least look a little better. It really is a shame that there is no FOX HD whatsoever. I'm hoping that I might have a shot at the FOX 9 digital channel when I put my 4228 up.

Yes, I get Fox 25. I think it came on at Super Bowl time and the digital picture does look better than the analog picture that I get from Charter cable. Better, but not spectacular. I was happy to get Fox on my Voom receiver and channel 13 was the only one I lacked. I had already decided to pull the plug on Voom the week before they announced the shutdown. It was kind of a lifestyle change and I decided to stop having to pay for my tv content. I was very happy with how easy it was to get the 4228 up and set in about an hour seeing as how I had never put up an antenna before.
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post #72 of 1634 Old 04-21-2005, 07:24 PM
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elocs-

Have you talked to Fox 25 to let them know you are frustrated that they are not broadcasting High Definition, and that the digital is only marginally better than the analog?
Every time I write they make me feel like I am the only person in the area that even cares.
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post #73 of 1634 Old 04-21-2005, 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Micah008
elocs-

Have you talked to Fox 25 to let them know you are frustrated that they are not broadcasting High Definition, and that the digital is only marginally better than the analog?
Every time I write they make me feel like I am the only person in the area that even cares.

No, I have not. I guess I was happy just to get it at all on my Voom receiver, but soon that will not matter. It seems like overall Fox is not that interested in HD.
So although the picture is a little better than analog, I cannot say I am frustrated.
You may be the only person in the area who cares.
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post #74 of 1634 Old 04-21-2005, 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by elocs
No, I have not. I guess I was happy just to get it at all on my Voom receiver, but soon that will not matter. It seems like overall Fox is not that interested in HD.
So although the picture is a little better than analog, I cannot say I am frustrated.
You may be the only person in the area who cares.

Let me add, that I appreciate your efforts, but I am not a HD snob. I am more concerned with content. I am fairly easily satisfied if the picture is decent. I grew up with b&w tv using rabbit ears with tinfoil strung between them, watching a ghosty picture. I have a 13 year old daughter who thinks that anything in b&w is inferior to color, regardless of content. I cannot go along with those who claim they will not watch anything unless it is in HD. I am cutting back on my tv viewing, but to do that would be severe.
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post #75 of 1634 Old 04-21-2005, 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Micah008
elocs-

Have you talked to Fox 25 to let them know you are frustrated that they are not broadcasting High Definition, and that the digital is only marginally better than the analog?
Every time I write they make me feel like I am the only person in the area that even cares.

I have written to their engineer numerous times and most of the time he responds. Mainly he just complains how costly everything is. When I asked him why they would spend all the money for SD digital equipment and not just get HD digital equipment he said that FOX told him that they would never be doing HD. It was obvious that at some point they would go HD as all the other networks already were. It really is too bad that this FOX affiliate is so backwards and poor that they spend a bunch of money on outdated equipment that isn't even in place yet.
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post #76 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by elocs
It seems like overall Fox is not that interested in HD.
So although the picture is a little better than analog, I cannot say I am frustrated.
You may be the only person in the area who cares.

Fox25/48 may not be that interested in HD. The Fox network is dedicated to the idea of HD, jumping in with both feet last September. Almost every NFC game last year was broadcast in HD, and it's almost certain that the same thing will happen this year. American Idol, House, and several other top-rated shows are in HD, with more going live all the time.

Part of the problem for Fox25/48 is their ownership - Sex.com lost a lawsuit to Yahoo a couple of years ago that they'd sunk millions of dollars on. They still haven't recovered, which is why the FCC repeatedly granted them extensions due to financial hardship. Quite literally, the cost of HD equipment would have bankrupted them.

Fox has done the best job of any network in providing their stations with HD equipment for receiving and using HD content. They implemented a "pass-thru" solution that doesn't require any specialized equipment (decoders/encoders) to put out an HD signal. All the station needs to buy is a second microwave link (or a clever multiplexing on their primary one) from their station to the transmitter. Fox has also put a lot of pressure on affiliates to get with the HD program.
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post #77 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by sregener
Fox25/48 may not be that interested in HD. The Fox network is dedicated to the idea of HD, jumping in with both feet last September. Almost every NFC game last year was broadcast in HD, and it's almost certain that the same thing will happen this year. American Idol, House, and several other top-rated shows are in HD, with more going live all the time.

Part of the problem for Fox25/48 is their ownership - Sex.com lost a lawsuit to Yahoo a couple of years ago that they'd sunk millions of dollars on. They still haven't recovered, which is why the FCC repeatedly granted them extensions due to financial hardship. Quite literally, the cost of HD equipment would have bankrupted them.

Fox has done the best job of any network in providing their stations with HD equipment for receiving and using HD content. They implemented a "pass-thru" solution that doesn't require any specialized equipment (decoders/encoders) to put out an HD signal. All the station needs to buy is a second microwave link (or a clever multiplexing on their primary one) from their station to the transmitter. Fox has also put a lot of pressure on affiliates to get with the HD program.

If you live in this area, Fox 25/48 is Fox for you--there's no other choice. Perhaps complaints should be made to the network about their affiliate since Fox 25/48 does not seem very responsive.
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post #78 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by elocs
If you live in this area, Fox 25/48 is Fox for you--there's no other choice. Perhaps complaints should be made to the network about their affiliate since Fox 25/48 does not seem very responsive.

If you're in La Crosse, you're probably right. But at the edges of the Eau Claire/La Crosse market, there are alternatives. Madison, Minneapolis, and Rochester Fox stations are all possible with the right setup for some people. And even then, things might not be so bad as you think. I live in Rochester, and I get a (very fuzzy) picture for Fox25 and a very viewable picture from Fox48. If WEUX-DT was running at 50kw like WHWC-DT is, I'd probably get them since I do get WHWC-DT. At full power, I fully expect to get WEUX-DT. I get WHLA-DT 24x7, and they're only 50kw from the same tower farm as WLAX, so maybe I'd even have a shot at them some day.

I don't know that any complaints to anybody is going to make a difference. Either the current owners sell the stations or they go bankrupt trying to implement HD.
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post #79 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by sregener
If you're in La Crosse, you're probably right. But at the edges of the Eau Claire/La Crosse market, there are alternatives. Madison, Minneapolis, and Rochester Fox stations are all possible with the right setup for some people.

Thanks Sregener for all your great posts. I live on the south side of Eau Claire. I am planning to put up a 4228 or equivalent antenna as soon as WKBT goes full power so I can stop paying Charter $10 a month for their 3 hd locals. (Hopefully WKBT will go full strength soon) Do you think there is a chance I will be able to pick up KMSP or the Rochester FOX station in HD from my location? I remember reading something you wrote that said KMSP was your 2nd most reliable channel next to CCO. I will be mounting it on top of the roof and there are no trees in my way to the west. BTW have you heard any news on WKBT yet? Thanks......
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post #80 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by jimboeau
Do you think there is a chance I will be able to pick up KMSP or the Rochester FOX station in HD from my location? I remember reading something you wrote that said KMSP was your 2nd most reliable channel next to CCO. I will be mounting it on top of the roof and there are no trees in my way to the west. BTW have you heard any news on WKBT yet? Thanks......

Last things first... No word from WKBT, and we're one month into spring. Only two to go before they miss their "promised" deadline on the SBE website.

Honestly, I don't know if you'd be able to pick up KMSP from Eau Claire. I wouldn't bet on KXLT, because they're only at 55kw (directional) or so at this point. Once you're "over the horizon" all bets are off as far as knowing what will or won't work in your location. If you're relatively high up compared to surrounding topography, you have as good a chance as I do at KMSP, maybe slightly better. Check out their predicted contours here:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT509417.html

The downside for you is that you're close to some UHF transmitters, so a preamplifier is going to have to be pretty resistant to overload for it to work for you. I'm almost 30 miles from my closest one. Winegards are reported to be a little less prone to overload than Channel Masters, so you might have better luck with a Winegard preamp, if you decide to go that route.

The 4228 is a fine antenna, but it's a bear on residential-grade rotors. They just put too much torque on the motor. Personally, I'd recommend the AntennasDirect 91XG if you want to do any long-distance stuff with a rotor. (It also works like a champ on all my local signals.)
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post #81 of 1634 Old 04-22-2005, 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by jimboeau
Thanks Sregener for all your great posts. I live on the south side of Eau Claire. I am planning to put up a 4228 or equivalent antenna as soon as WKBT goes full power so I can stop paying Charter $10 a month for their 3 hd locals. (Hopefully WKBT will go full strength soon) Do you think there is a chance I will be able to pick up KMSP or the Rochester FOX station in HD from my location? I remember reading something you wrote that said KMSP was your 2nd most reliable channel next to CCO. I will be mounting it on top of the roof and there are no trees in my way to the west. BTW have you heard any news on WKBT yet? Thanks......

We are in kind of opposite ends of the same boat. I put up a CM 4228 so I could get WEAU DT in La Crosse and drop Charter cable. I wonder if I could get the Rochester Fox station in La Crosse? That's kind of pathetic when you are looking to get a network affiliate in another city when you have one in yours.
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post #82 of 1634 Old 04-23-2005, 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by elocs
I wonder if I could get the Rochester Fox station in La Crosse? That's kind of pathetic when you are looking to get a network affiliate in another city when you have one in yours.

You have a better chance at getting KTTC-DT, and I'd try for that one first. It's on channel 36. They're much closer to full power. If you get them and don't get KXLT, then all you have to do is wait for KXLT to boost their power levels.

I agree it's sad that people need to get distant networks to get what they want. I had to watch KMSP for the whole football season because KXLT didn't go HD until the Super Bowl. On the flip side, I still have problems with KXLT and timeshifting, as they seem to have some kind of macrovision thing going on it - I use a Samsung tied to my ReplayTV to record digital stuff, and *ONLY* KXLT (out of 18 stations) causes problems with it. Requests for help from the engineer have yielded nothing but "We made sure we did it right. Sorry you're having trouble."

From La Crosse, you have to clear those bluffs, which is a tough job. But if you're high enough, there's no reason why you couldn't do what I'm doing in reverse.
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post #83 of 1634 Old 04-23-2005, 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by sregener
You have a better chance at getting KTTC-DT, and I'd try for that one first. It's on channel 36. They're much closer to full power. If you get them and don't get KXLT, then all you have to do is wait for KXLT to boost their power levels.

I agree it's sad that people need to get distant networks to get what they want. I had to watch KMSP for the whole football season because KXLT didn't go HD until the Super Bowl. On the flip side, I still have problems with KXLT and timeshifting, as they seem to have some kind of macrovision thing going on it - I use a Samsung tied to my ReplayTV to record digital stuff, and *ONLY* KXLT (out of 18 stations) causes problems with it. Requests for help from the engineer have yielded nothing but "We made sure we did it right. Sorry you're having trouble."

From La Crosse, you have to clear those bluffs, which is a tough job. But if you're high enough, there's no reason why you couldn't do what I'm doing in reverse.

It's too bad that KTTC-DT does not broadcast through their uhf tower just 6 miles from me, but my CM 4228 picked up WEAU-DT right away. I am almost right next to the Mississippi River, so those Minnesota bluffs loom large. I at least get Fox 25 good enough so I can cut the cable cord. It does not sound like complaints to anybody does much good.
I will be getting my LG 4200a next week, so I will then get o see how my ota line-up looks in anticipation of the post Voom era.
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post #84 of 1634 Old 04-23-2005, 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by elocs
It's too bad that KTTC-DT does not broadcast through their uhf tower just 6 miles from me, but my CM 4228 picked up WEAU-DT right away.

KTTC probably will broadcast from that tower, but only after the analog shutoff. It doesn't appear that many translators will be permitted to switch over to digital until that point, and it will be an instant "cut" with no dual-transmission time period.
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post #85 of 1634 Old 04-23-2005, 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by sregener
KTTC probably will broadcast from that tower, but only after the analog shutoff. It doesn't appear that many translators will be permitted to switch over to digital until that point, and it will be an instant "cut" with no dual-transmission time period.

I wonder if the analog shutoff will ever actually get here? It seems it is getting pushed back all the time.
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post #86 of 1634 Old 05-12-2005, 07:55 PM
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I might be moving to La Crosse soon. Is there any pressure on Charter to get more HD channels?
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post #87 of 1634 Old 05-14-2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Feddie
I might be moving to La Crosse soon. Is there any pressure on Charter to get more HD channels?

I don't think there is much pressure on Charter, but it is hard to tell. Their ads push their digital package along with their dvr. I cancelled Charter altogether a couple of weeks ago and have gone ota only. They just sent me my final billing--6 cents. Can you believe it? They spent the postage to send me a bill for 6 cents, so I wrote them a check and dropped it off. They can also spend the money to process a check for 6 cents.
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post #88 of 1634 Old 05-14-2005, 01:54 PM
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Sorry, I don't have a need to watch football anymore, although growing up here in Wisconsin in the early '60s we had a rather well known team that still gets a lot of airtime What football I get ota is good enough for me. If you need all the football there is to have you should be willing to pay what they ask to get it.
If they cannot get their asking price from enough subscribers, they might lower it. Might it be there are too few hd subscribers to make a difference?
The way this country is going, protesting not getting satellite football in hd is pretty low on my list of things to protest. I should get busy on that list again.
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post #89 of 1634 Old 05-17-2005, 05:18 PM
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I just hope that when I write to Charter telling them that they need a lot more HD, I am not the first person to complain.
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post #90 of 1634 Old 05-17-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Feddie
I just hope that when I write to Charter telling them that they need a lot more HD, I am not the first person to complain.

First, let me say that although I have no intention of going with Charter again I believe they should have more hd. But Voom hd programming aside, how much hd programming is there out there? Why does Charter "need" more hd? Remember that I think they should have more hd, but La Crosse is not a hotbed of hdtv, so what argument could be made to them that they need more hd? I do not know of anyone else who has hdtv, so although you might not be the first to complain, you might be among the first.
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