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post #4381 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 07:06 AM
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Yes, the WSOC newscast does look very good in HD, along with WBTV and WCCB. Which is why I suggested you might consider "moving" to Salisbury. But I do agree with you about the WSOC weather map. It's like Gaffney, SC doesn't even exist, although Cherokee County is directly under Cleveland County geographically. But it is obviously missing from the WSOC map. So is Davidson County to the east. But then you have far flung Richmond County prominently displayed. Go figure. The Charlotte OTA signals are definitely stronger in Gaffney than in Rockingham, such that the designated DMA boundaries do not seem to make sense. And so the weathermap corresponds with these boundaries, which I realize is where the ratings are determined.
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post #4382 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 08:45 AM
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I was always under the impression that the local channels sent the stupid 4:3 chopped versions of their channels to the providers. I guess it doesn't matter; in the long run, since it's what I've got. The ignoring of counties outside the DMA despite viewers in them isn't logical. Key word: SIGNIFICANTLY viewed, which is also an outdated ignorant system, but I digress. Sure, the bulk of the viewers aren't there, but one would think they'd take all they could get. Here in Alamance County, WTVD is SV (and SD) on all providers but it's like we don't exist on their maps. At least WRAL includes us on the scroll for warnings, etc, and until the newest graphics were put in place, we were always on the maps. They still put Greensboro, though. I should make some money off this; I have a couple friends who are always having me DVR things from WRAL when they have sports specials, etc. I should refuse and give them the Directv Referral coupons and have them get AM21s. 4 people x $100....

PS: I don't expect WSOC to include Alamance County but WTVD should and WSOC should pay more attention to the western/southern Triad since WXLV is a joke and they could both probably benefit. Maybe petition providers to be HD in the SV counties. Last time I checked, WXLV is only HD during network programming, so full-time HD and news not run by the evil cable company should be good things for competition. Burlington, Lexington, and W-S are not small towns and could add a few viewers. I would travel to Durham for a sale and support businesses in the "other" DMA like I'm sure people in Lexington would go to Charlotte. Hell, I'd go to Charlotte, too. Viewers = ratings, Ratings = dollars.
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post #4383 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Burlington, Lexington, and W-S are not small towns and could add a few viewers. I would travel to Durham for a sale and support businesses in the "other" DMA like I'm sure people in Lexington would go to Charlotte. Hell, I'd go to Charlotte, too. Viewers = ratings, Ratings = dollars.


That matters ONLY if you can sell advertising there...if none of the businesses in those areas will buy spots then it doesn't matter. The sales
staff isn't going to go fight for insignificant buys that far away.With that said.. Perhaps you should offer your vast wealth of Tv knowledge to any of the aforementioned stations..I am sure the GM's, LSM's and NSM's there would welcome the help since they are so inept!
A good AE selling Tv can pull down some serious bucks!

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post #4384 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 12:42 PM
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My point was that they can't sell to them because of the rules, so figuring out if it would be worth trying to advertise to a distant city a moot point. Why would someone watch an SD SV channel vs. an HD one? SV should be HD as the HD version is already on Directv, TWC, etc so why not just push it through? I am sure I am not the first person to think of that. But as for deeper into anthother DMA, while I don't have numbers, the number of OTA people vs. pay tv is teeny tiny. If the people who were on pay TV got the same channels as the OTA coverage range, maybe that would change advertising a little. I don't think the GMs, etc are inept. They just deal with stupid rules and work with what they can.
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post #4385 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

That matters ONLY if you can sell advertising there...if none of the businesses in those areas will buy spots then it doesn't matter. The sales staff isn't going to go fight for insignificant buys that far away.

ejb1980 said "Viewers = ratings, Ratings = dollars". So whether or not advertising can be sold to 'out of market' towns does not negate the fact that viewers still travel to these areas. And they may remember a commercial and make a conscious effort to shop at a particular place.

As just one example, I saw an ad about a year ago on WSOC for The Original Mattress Factory. Now this company does not exist anywhere in the Triad. However, since I knew I was going to be in north Charlotte, I decided to check them out. Believe it or not, I bought a mattress from them and they delivered it to me in W-S. I am only just over an hour way so it's not like I am in some far off remote area.

Now, by default, a 'paid' viewer living in Boone or West Jefferson might have seen this very same ad. But they are 'part' of the so called audience since they are inside these artificially created boundaries. But is that commercial, or other ones coming from Charlotte any more or less relevant to them, versus myself? Geographically, they are not any closer. Pehaps a bit further away with places like West Jefferson.

Most people (including myself) want my true locals. But in my opinion, it is also about giving the viewing public of paid television the freedom to choose (within reason). Certainly, this ability to choose should come into play when it comes to areas like Lexington/Salisbury or Burlington/Mebane.
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post #4386 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

My point was that they can't sell to them because of the rules, so figuring out if it would be worth trying to advertise to a distant city a moot point. Why would someone watch an SD SV channel vs. an HD one? SV should be HD as the HD version is already on Directv, TWC, etc so why not just push it through? I am sure I am not the first person to think of that.

You are not the first person to think of it. It's just one more example of the ridiculous policies that are in place
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post #4387 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:16 PM
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Just to backup Bob statement...at WSOC we send only one signal, HD 720p..if it is shown in 4x3, 480....DirecTV does that....Not WSOC.

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post #4388 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:25 PM
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Doesn't Boone being in the Charlotte DMA have something to do with terrain and not proximity? Similar to how WUNE covers Statesville and Morganton but 10 miles north of the tower the signal peters out.

People there watch WCYB/WJHL anyway I think...
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post #4389 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

But in my opinion, it is also about giving the viewing public of paid television the freedom to choose (within reason). Certainly, this ability to choose should come into play when it comes to areas like Lexington/Salisbury or Burlington/Mebane.

The "choice" argument doesn't hold up from a technical standpoint (outside of the nearby markets as you mention and even then it doesn't always work)..Say you are from Montgomery AL and you want to see your hometown station WAKA..even if the rules were abolished..it wouldn't happen as that particular spot beam doesn't reach this area. I know I have tried. I can get WFXB via Dish..but not DirecTv for that very reason.

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post #4390 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndThenScottSays View Post

Doesn't Boone being in the Charlotte DMA have something to do with terrain and not proximity? Similar to how WUNE covers Statesville and Morganton but 10 miles north of the tower the signal peters out.

People there watch WCYB/WJHL anyway I think...

Yes, it's certainly not always proximity. Otherwise, I think Boone would be assigned to the Tri Cities market in Tenn. And sometimes that does happen where rural viewers are forcibly assigned to a television market in another state. I've read reports where there's been big uproars over that in different parts of the country.

As for terrain, I am not sure if that played into it. Boone used to be assigned to the Greensboro market. They were reassigned in 2005 (I believe) to the Charlotte market.

But, they are allowed to watch some of the Tri Cities stations as SV.
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post #4391 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo1080 View Post

Just to backup Bob statement...at WSOC we send only one signal, HD 720p..if it is shown in 4x3, 480....DirecTV does that....Not WSOC.

Ted Hand

Do you in-the-business people know why this is done? It seems like such a waste of time! If the same people were watching with a converter box, they'd get a down-converted 16:9 image and that's it!
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post #4392 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Do you in-the-business people know why this is done? It seems like such a waste of time! If the same people were watching with a converter box, they'd get a down-converted 16:9 image and that's it!

Yes, good question. Is Direct TV forced to down convert the signal by some ridiculous regulations or is it a case of them simply choosing to do so for their own business reasons? It is interesting that so many SV stations are not available in HD. And we know subscribers could always upgrade their receiver boxes (if necessary) in the exact same way they do to receive HD programming inside the home market.
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post #4393 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

The "choice" argument doesn't hold up from a technical standpoint (outside of the nearby markets as you mention and even then it doesn't always work)..Say you are from Montgomery AL and you want to see your hometown station WAKA..even if the rules were abolished..it wouldn't happen as that particular spot beam doesn't reach this area. I know I have tried. I can get WFXB via Dish..but not DirecTv for that very reason.

Yes, as you say, I understand there are technical limitations. But when I mentioned (within reasonable limits), I was referring to nearby markets and not ones that are hundreds of miles away.

A good example of what I was referring to would be Lexington/Salisbury or Burlington/Mebane. IMO, these strict regulations need to be relaxed in such a way that these viewers have full access to all locals in each neighboring market in addition to the home market (i.e. Burlington viewers being allowed to watch all Triad and Raleigh stations and Salisbury/Lexington viewers being allowed to watch all Triad/Charlotte locals). Afterall, we know these areas can pick up the alternate market with an antenna so why should they be locked out with paid TV unless it's on the SV list? It just doesn't make any sense; and these rules are draconian.

I don't expect Forsyth County will be added to SV for WSOC or any other Charlotte stations (not like it was 20-30 years ago). But having said that, I do recall a conversation I had with a Direct TV rep. The rep came to my home last year and said there was no problem whatsoever (at my physical address) with the spot beam from WSOC reaching my home in the event I chose to sign up for Direct TV and then *move* to Davidson Co, in order to get access to WSOC (SV) while retaining all of my Triad stations.

I chose not to do that; but from a technical standpoint it was not an issue. Obviously, I am not that far away from the Charlotte market; and I can see the Charlotte channels OTA. But not everyone wants to install an antenna; and some people live in poor reception areas.
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post #4394 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Yes, the WSOC newscast does look very good in HD, along with WBTV and WCCB. Which is why I suggested you might consider "moving" to Salisbury. But I do agree with you about the WSOC weather map. It's like Gaffney, SC doesn't even exist, although Cherokee County is directly under Cleveland County geographically. But it is obviously missing from the WSOC map. So is Davidson County to the east. But then you have far flung Richmond County prominently displayed. Go figure. The Charlotte OTA signals are definitely stronger in Gaffney than in Rockingham, such that the designated DMA boundaries do not seem to make sense. And so the weathermap corresponds with these boundaries, which I realize is where the ratings are determined.

I agree that WSOC, WBTV and WCCB look very good in HD. But you are correct in stating that there's not much deviation from the offical DMA lines on the weather maps. You would think Cherokee County could be squeezed in there, as you mention on WSOC, but not the case. However, I've noticed (on WSOC) that Wilkes County is included in the weather map. Perhaps that is done to give the map a more perfect triangle look? I don't know. But Wilkes is assigned to the Greensboro DMA and has been for a long time.

Surprisingly, WBTV seems to deviate from the triangular view a bit more when the initial map is displayed (with all area temperatures). They even have Winston-Salem prominently displayed on their initial weathermap that includes all temperatures for each city/town. But the weather forecasters generally do not ever utter the word of any 'out of market' town name unless it is in the context of an approaching storm. It's almost appears as if it is taboo for them to do so!

But I suppose that's really no different than any where else. Here in the Greensboro market, the weather map is an 'upside down' triangle with the lone Montgomery County sticking out on the map.....at the very bottom of the map. Not much deviation here either except for cases where Salisbury is displayed and the word 'Salisbury' is actually spoken sometimes
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post #4395 of 11984 Old 02-19-2012, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

I agree that WSOC, WBTV and WCCB look very good in HD. But you are correct in stating that there's not much deviation from the offical DMA lines on the weather maps. You would think Cherokee County could be squeezed in there, as you mention on WSOC, but not the case. However, I've noticed (on WSOC) that Wilkes County is included in the weather map. Perhaps that is done to give the map a more perfect triangle look? I don't know. But Wilkes is assigned to the Greensboro DMA and has been for a long time.

I'm guessing the reason WSOC shows Wilkes County on their weather map is because DirecTV carries it there, and it's on cable in North Wilkesboro as well. However, I could be wrong because WSOC also shows Marion on their map, and the only Charlotte station carried on cable there is WBTV.
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My home made antenna picks up 23 unique channels (meaning 23 different channels with no duplicates). But, every now and then, I have to turn it. What's up with that?

Tonight, I had to turn it from facing the corner of my room to fully facing the outside wall.

I have thought about building another (or just biting the damn bullet and buying some big ass ugly thing) that will pull in signals better.

I currently have a cable TV amplifier hooked up to it. Would a different amp be any better? If I unhook this one, I get next to nothing at all. It says that it is 54-1000 MHz with a 15db boost. That sounds pretty decent to me.

I don't know. I am just getting frustrated having to turn this thing every few days. Some days, the translators at Connelly Springs come in great. Other days, the signals from Charlotte come in great and the Connelly Springs signals suck. (Yes, I know that sometimes I say Marion, but you all know where I am talking about.)

Do you recon if I make another antenna and place them at about a 25-45 degree angle to each - would that make a difference? Of course I would then have to combine the signals and all that as well.

I am just looking for some answers as to why it seems the signals keep moving around, and what I could do about it.

I am about ready to buy one of those little black square amplified antennas and super glue the damn thing on the outside of one of my windows.
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post #4397 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 04:37 AM
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I am just looking for some answers as to why it seems the signals keep moving around, and what I could do about it.
.

Have you plotted your addy on Tvfool to see what it says? And saying Marion is fine..as that is what the license says for W20DD.

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post #4398 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Country_Boy View Post

My home made antenna picks up 23 unique channels (meaning 23 different channels with no duplicates). But, every now and then, I have to turn it. What's up with that?

I am just looking for some answers as to why it seems the signals keep moving around, and what I could do about it.

I am about ready to buy one of those little black square amplified antennas and super glue the damn thing on the outside of one of my windows.

Weather will affect signal paths, and boy did we have weather yesterday. Outside will always be better than inside, higher always better than lower.

Amplifying a bad signal just brings up the noise as well - amps are good to overcome CABLE losses as the run goes around your house - but you can't make a signal better that isn't there - you are always better off with a stronger antenna.

If you have a single bay antenna, then a double bay will help... Adding another antenna just 30 degrees off probably won't happen, but remember back in the day, we had HUGE antennas outside on a rotator - whatever you have inside unless you live in town isn't going to compare.

I use a DB-8 antenna mounted 30ft outside - and I get both CLT and GSO stations with it, no rotator. I do lose ch 12 and 42 in bad wx, and get blocks on 46 during heavy wx.

Even right outside your home/apartment against the building will always do better, and even right at the window will be better...
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post #4399 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 06:07 AM
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And saying Marion is fine..as that is what the license says for W20DD.

Also for W42DR-D

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post #4400 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mcy919 View Post

I'm guessing the reason WSOC shows Wilkes County on their weather map is because DirecTV carries it there, and it's on cable in North Wilkesboro as well. However, I could be wrong because WSOC also shows Marion on their map, and the only Charlotte station carried on cable there is WBTV.

I believe you are correct in that Direct TV is allowed to retransmit WSOC into Wilkes because of the significantly viewed rules. But Davidson, Davie, and Yadkin are also on the SV list (for WSOC only). But you won't see them on the weather map. But I don't blame WSOC for putting Wilkes on there. It does help 'fill in' the triangle

Note: I believe I read the 'cable company' in Wilkesboro is allowed to retransmit WBTV. But unless things have changed recently, Direct TV is 'only' allowed to retransmit WSOC into Davidson, Davie, and Yadkin counties. They are prohibited from retransmitting any of the other Charlotte locals into these counties b/c they are not on the SV list. And right now, I think it is only Direct TV (not Dish and not cable) that carries WSOC into Davidson, Davie, and Yadkin).
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post #4401 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 09:26 AM
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In the analog days, WBTV was the highest rated CBS affiliate in Wilkes County, although Wilkes is classified as a Greensboro market county. Not sure if that is still the case. And I believe WBTV has significantly viewed status in Rutherford County, despite being AVL/GSP market. So these factors may play a role in cable carriage. Interestingly, all CLT stations provided better coverage of the recent Rutherford tornados, including wall to wall coverage as the storms hit. Whereas, the true market locals from AVL/GSP had more limited coverage. Usually, WLOS and WBTV tend to cover Rutherford County the best.
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post #4402 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 09:31 AM
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Just noticed WSOC has the best coverage from the air, as Chopper 9 Sky Zoom is now HD.
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post #4403 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

Yes, good question. Is Direct TV forced to down convert the signal by some ridiculous regulations or is it a case of them simply choosing to do so for their own business reasons? It is interesting that so many SV stations are not available in HD. And we know subscribers could always upgrade their receiver boxes (if necessary) in the exact same way they do to receive HD programming inside the home market.

It would not surprise me if your DirecTv receiver is actually receiving the exact same HD WSOC signal as indicated above, and then the receiver is instructed to only display it as a SD channel. They would do this to conserve bandwidth as there would be no need to send separate down converted SD signal when there was already a HD signal available.
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post #4404 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:24 PM
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It would not surprise me if your DirecTv receiver is actually receiving the exact same HD WSOC signal as indicated above, and then the receiver is instructed to only display it as a SD channel. They would do this to conserve bandwidth as there would be no need to send separate down converted SD signal when there was already a HD signal available.

However that is not the case, as there is still a large portion of their receivers that are SD only. Plus, detailed listings of their transponders
and what is carried where is available on line.

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post #4405 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Just noticed WSOC has the best coverage from the air, as Chopper 9 Sky Zoom is now HD.

Sweet isn't it? I miss flying in Sky3..(the Hughes 500d not the Robinson)..maybe one day Theo1080 could get me a ride in Chopper 9 to check some signals.

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post #4406 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

However that is not the case, as there is still a large portion of their receivers that are SD only. Plus, detailed listings of their transponders
and what is carried where is available on line.

I am not sure I understand. If it's not an issue of bandwidth, then why doesn't D* send the signals for both SD and HD receivers? The situation about a large number of SD only receivers would not be unique to people in the SV counties but rather the entire viewing audience (in and out of market) at large.
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post #4407 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

I am not sure I understand. If it's not an issue of bandwidth, then why doesn't D* send the signals for both SD and HD receivers? The situation about a large number of SD only receivers would not be unique to people in the SV counties but rather the entire viewing audience (in and out of market) at large.

Ok.. once again here..DirecTv uplinks HD and SD signals for MOST of the affiliates they carry as there are still a large number of customer receivers that are SD only. Only the receivers that are HD can downconvert an HD signal to SD. Has nothing to do with SV..And like with TWC, some channels that are MPEG4 are only available via HD receivers, no SD version is carried. If one takes some time to review all of the channels DirecTv uplinks (as well as Dish) it is mind boggling to me how they keep it all going...

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post #4408 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Ok.. once again here..DirecTv uplinks HD and SD signals for MOST of the affiliates they carry as there are still a large number of customer receivers that are SD only. Only the receivers that are HD can downconvert an HD signal to SD. Has nothing to do with SV..And like with TWC, some channels that are MPEG4 are only available via HD receivers, no SD version is carried.

So if I assume that Direct TV uplinks HD and SD signals for WSOC, wouldn't the D* viewer (with the latest and greatest HD receiver) in Davidson County be able to view the same HD signal as the viewer in Rowan County or anywhere else where the WSOC signal is provided by D*? If the Davidson County viewer cannot see the WSOC signal in HD (that person with the HD receiver), then what is preventing that? This is where it is unclear. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Ok.. once again here..DirecTv uplinks HD and SD signals for MOST of the affiliates they carry as there are still a large number of customer receivers that are SD only. Only the receivers that are HD can downconvert an HD signal to SD. ... If one takes some time to review all of the channels DirecTv uplinks (as well as Dish) it is mind boggling to me how they keep it all going...

I don't disagree with you as I don't know the specifics of legacy Directv receivers, but there isn't anything technical, in general, that would prevent a SD only receiver from decoding a MPEG 2 or 4 datastream and then only outputting it via whatever hardware it was limited to. They would be very motivated to do this, if they can.
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post #4410 of 11984 Old 02-20-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post

So if I assume that Direct TV uplinks HD and SD signals for WSOC, wouldn't the D* viewer (with the latest and greatest HD receiver) in Davidson be able to view the same HD signal as the viewer in Rowan in anywhere else where the signal is provided by D*? This is what I was getting at

Your question makes perfect sense Evan..While I am not intimately knowledgeable of SV rules.. It could be a contractual /carriage issue with the local affiliate preventing it..it could be DirecTv policy..could be a limitation for various reasons with their authorization system..could be an issue with the spot beams, as HD and SD feeds are carried on different satellites and transponders.. Having specially authorized DirecTv receivers for several local markets and Sports Access here at work..we have run into such issues before. Like not being able to get WFXB here..But can WOLO.

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