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post #11941 of 12003 Old 05-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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Has anyone (who has had difficulties with reception with WJZY) noticed the signal level has increased in the last week or two? I have not made any adjustments on my end while noticing some improvements (recently).

As we know - the repack is this Fall for the Charlotte market; and because WJZY's tower will not be upgraded until then, I was not expecting to see any improvements at this time.

Of course, this better reception may only be temporary (until hopefully the repack changes things for the better). But I just want to know if others who have had difficulties with WJZY have noticed any improvements recently?
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post #11942 of 12003 Old 05-19-2019, 01:30 PM
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Yes, I believe it has improved. I am 5-7 miles, as the crow flies, from all of the Dallas transmitters, and have multiple antennas pointed right at them. Still and yet, I was having problems receiving a consistent signal from WJZY.

I have also noticed signal strength issues from WCCB, even on my antennas pointed toward them in Charlotte.
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post #11943 of 12003 Old 05-19-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by OTA-DVR-guy View Post
Yes, I believe it has improved. I am 5-7 miles, as the crow flies, from all of the Dallas transmitters, and have multiple antennas pointed right at them. Still and yet, I was having problems receiving a consistent signal from WJZY.

I have also noticed signal strength issues from WCCB, even on my antennas pointed toward them in Charlotte.
That's strange that you were having any issues whatsoever given that you are only 5-7 miles from the Dallas transmitters. At any rate - interesting that you have noticed some improvements recently.

I am in Davie County and 57 crow miles from the Dallas towers and 51 miles from NE Charlotte towers. WJZY has been my main problem station - but it's been looking better the past week or two for some odd reason.

As always, the signal from WBTV is consistently the best from any of the Charlotte networks (no surprise to anyone I guess). I can receive that station with a small indoor antenna - although I use a better antenna up in the attic for all channels from Charlotte and the Triad.

I am crossing my fingers the new tower from WJZY in the Fall will resolve my issues with that station. According to rabbitears.info the coverage area of WJZY after repack appears to come the closest to WBTV.

Overall, I live in a very good area for OTA, (higher terrain and no large trees or other obstructions on top of me). So no real complaints here - just curious about WJZY and recent signal gains.
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post #11944 of 12003 Old 05-19-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
Has anyone (who has had difficulties with reception with WJZY) noticed the signal level has increased in the last week or two? I have not made any adjustments on my end while noticing some improvements (recently).

As we know - the repack is this Fall for the Charlotte market; and because WJZY's tower will not be upgraded until then, I was not expecting to see any improvements at this time.

Of course, this better reception may only be temporary (until hopefully the repack changes things for the better). But I just want to know if others who have had difficulties with WJZY have noticed any improvements recently?
It is possible some of the stations may be making preliminary adjustments in preparation for the repack. However, the improvements could just be due to summer weather conditions now emerging. I am also seeing higher signal strength on WJZY and WCNC in recent days, and WCCB and WSOC are coming in better.

Although I am now having issues with WLOS, but I may just need to adjust my VHF antenna in the attic. And possibly change from Winegard LNA200 back to Channel Master preamp. Sometimes LNA200 causes pixelation and dropouts due to overload issues. But I am really waiting till repack time in August or September to make major adjustments to antenna set up.
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post #11945 of 12003 Old 05-21-2019, 08:06 PM
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It is possible some of the stations may be making preliminary adjustments in preparation for the repack. However, the improvements could just be due to summer weather conditions now emerging. I am also seeing higher signal strength on WJZY and WCNC in recent days, and WCCB and WSOC are coming in better.

Although I am now having issues with WLOS, but I may just need to adjust my VHF antenna in the attic. And possibly change from Winegard LNA200 back to Channel Master preamp. Sometimes LNA200 causes pixelation and dropouts due to overload issues. But I am really waiting till repack time in August or September to make major adjustments to antenna set up.
Thanks for the update on your side
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post #11946 of 12003 Old 05-30-2019, 07:21 PM
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Apparently problem WCCB legacy 18 top mount antenna. Old analog was going to use for repack digital. Need repair and no parts available so new digital 18 antenna will be side mount, which is why they change plans and power level, according to FCC public file, if I understand correctly. They may have some sort of temporary antenna and new 18 antenna install delayed until October because of late change of plan and they wait for new antenna to be built.

Perhaps in August as stations prepare to install new antennas, some stations may use temporary antennas as repack construction begin. I guess each individual station may announce as needed on case by case basis as repack transition begins.
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post #11947 of 12003 Old 05-31-2019, 09:34 AM
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WSOCTV2 (WSOC-ST) Statesville is back on the air. It is now on Channel 12
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post #11948 of 12003 Old 06-01-2019, 12:32 AM
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WSOCTV2 (WSOC-ST) Statesville is back on the air. It is now on Channel 12
I hope reception pattern remains the same. Is Crowder's still changing to 12 also and will that be later in September?
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post #11949 of 12003 Old 06-01-2019, 02:14 PM
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WSOCTV2 (WSOC-ST) Statesville is back on the air. It is now on Channel 12
Speaking of translators, I used to get WSOC Statesville from neighboring Davie County (about 15 miles from the translator) on RF46 without issues. Doing a channel scan today, there's not a hint of any signal from WSOC-ST at this same location, now on RF12 with my combo UHF/VHF antenna. Of course, we know the intent of this translator is primarily to serve viewers in and around the immediate Statesville area versus my neighboring county. And I believe RF12 was chosen (versus a UHF frequency) to help ensure approval after the spectrum auction. I do continue to receive the signal from the WAXN translator in China Grove on RF36 which is about 27 miles away.

PS I have multiple antennas, but my scan for RF12 was done with a combo Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna in the attic. I did not try it outdoors, or with any more powerful directional antenna dedicated solely to VHF - but no hint of a signal on the Mohu Sail through my Samsung's native tuner with this test.

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post #11950 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 04:00 AM
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Speaking of translators, I used to get WSOC Statesville from neighboring Davie County (about 15 miles from the translator) on RF46 without issues. Doing a channel scan today, there's not a hint of any signal from WSOC-ST at this same location, now on RF12 with my combo UHF/VHF antenna. Of course, we know the intent of this translator is primarily to serve viewers in and around the immediate Statesville area versus my neighboring county. And I believe RF12 was chosen (versus a UHF frequency) to help ensure approval after the spectrum auction. I do continue to receive the signal from the WAXN translator in China Grove on RF36 which is about 27 miles away.
I think the power levels are too low for VHF translators as they do not seem to replicate the coverage areas of the UHF translators, despite what it says on paper. During the analog to digital transition, many VHF digital stations had to increase power due to noise and interference issues. And when I lived near Mauldin, I was only a few miles from Paris Mtn. and could never receive the WSPA translator on RF10, although I was able to get the WLOS translator on RF31. And often the WSOC translator would come in at night from Crowder's Mtn. much further away. So it just seems 3kw is way too low for reliable reception on VHF, and it should be increased to replicate the coverage of a 9kw UHF signal. Although a stronger VHF antenna may produce better results than what could be achieved with the single dipole on the Clearstream 4V antenna. But I am hoping to get better reception of the main WSOC signal after the repack when they move to 19. I think with the increase in height and some adjustments with the attic antenna, I may have better results, as I am currently getting 34 evenings, overnight, and early morning in Spartanburg County. But I do have some VHF antennas I can experiment with, although it would be helpful if the FCC could allow VHF translators a bit more power.
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post #11951 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 06:26 AM
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Since we are seeing VHF Hi being used now it is best to invest in a VHF antenna, I have been in the industry for over 30 years and if I showed my boss the at Clearstream 4V antenna and said " This will get in our VHF-Hi channels my butt would be thrown back out in the field. You can not replace physics when it comes down to RF reception and there is no miracle antenna for $29.99 that does all.

Pay attention to this: Since an Antenna cannot amplify a signal, gain of an antenna can only come from its directionality. So pay attention to the beamwidth of your antenna. For me I pick an antenna based upon gain and directivity.
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post #11952 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 10:27 AM
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. You can not replace physics when it comes down to RF reception and there is no miracle antenna for $29.99 that does all.

Pay attention to this: Since an Antenna cannot amplify a signal, gain of an antenna can only come from its directionality. So pay attention to the beamwidth of your antenna. For me I pick an antenna based upon gain and directivity.
You need a preamp...

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post #11953 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 10:30 AM
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i think the power levels are too low for vhf translators ...
HAAT rules

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post #11954 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 03:47 PM
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HAAT rules
I understand but even many full power VHF stations had to increase power to replicate analog coverage. UHF digital seems less prone to noise and interference and is often easier to receive. WSOC on channel 30 has a good booster signal in core counties of Gaston and Cleveland, and even extends into border areas of Rutherford, Cherokee, Spartanburg, and Polk counties. Unfortunately channel 12 may be more problematic, unless you have a large VHF antenna and preamp. But I can get WSPA and WLOS on 7 and 13 with a 4228 UHF antenna 8bay, but of course they are much more power. But that is my point. But I hope for the best with channel 12, but I plan to focus on 19 after the repack as I often receive 34 now, and I can move or adjust my antenna when the time comes. Maybe even go outside rather than the attic. Will see what September brings.
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post #11955 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 03:50 PM
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I understand but even many full power VHF stations had to increase power to replicate analog coverage. UHF digital seems less prone to noise and interference and is often easier to receive. WSOC on channel 30 has a good booster signal in core counties of Gaston and Cleveland, and even extends into border areas of Rutherford, Cherokee, Spartanburg, and Polk counties. Unfortunately channel 12 may be more problematic, unless you have a large VHF antenna and preamp. But I can get WSPA and WLOS on 7 and 13 with a 4228 UHF antenna 8bay, but of course they are much more power. But that is my point. But I hope for the best with channel 12, but I plan to focus on 19 after the repack as I often receive 34 now, and I can move or adjust my antenna when the time comes. Maybe even go outside rather than the attic. Will see what September brings.
There is the problem, you will put up a large 4228 antenna for UHF but for VHF no one wants to do the same thing to receive those channels.
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post #11956 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 04:04 PM
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There is the problem, you will put up a large 4228 antenna for UHF but for VHF no one wants to do the same thing to receive those channels.
I am going to try to adjust the 4228 UHF antenna in the attic after the repack and hope to receive WCCB and WSOC on 18 and 19. Perhaps move outside. I am receiving 27 and 34 right now at 7pm, but they sometimes dropout during the day. But I may consider a dedicated High VHF antenna such as the Stellar Labs and see if I can receive 12. We shall see. I don't expect any issues with the GSP or AVL channels, or WBTV, WCNC, and WJZY which I currently receive in northern Spartanburg County. Just west of I-26.
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post #11957 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 04:40 PM
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18 and 19 should be easier to pick up than the higher channels...
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post #11958 of 12003 Old 06-02-2019, 07:26 PM
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There is the problem, you will put up a large 4228 antenna for UHF but for VHF no one wants to do the same thing to receive those channels.
People have to look at it from a cost/benefit analysis. And if a viewer is able to receive WSOC out of Newell - taking reasonable measures with their antenna to try to ensure effective gain and directionality – that is obviously a better way to go versus investing in a large/directional VHF antenna for a low power translator in a viewing market that remains primarily UHF.

Even with the best type of VHF antenna, I have my doubts the coverage area of the new RF12 will be as effective as UHF...particularly with the power level that was granted for these translators. But I am guessing that was the most available under the current rules. And WSOC obviously chose 12 in an effort to save these translators with the decreasing amount of available spectrum (post repack). At any rate, I wish WSOC success with the new Statesville and Crowders Mountain translators on RF12.

In the end, the true test will be how well these translators serve the core viewers in the market (relative to the old UHF frequencies) who cannot otherwise obtain the main WSOC signal out of NE Charlotte. Hopefully those viewers will try the most effective VHF antenna for the translators.
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post #11959 of 12003 Old 06-03-2019, 04:16 AM
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People have to look at it from a cost/benefit analysis. And if a viewer is able to receive WSOC out of Newell - taking reasonable measures with their antenna to try to ensure effective gain and directionality – that is obviously a better way to go versus investing in a large/directional VHF antenna for a low power translator in a viewing market that remains primarily UHF.

Even with the best type of VHF antenna, I have my doubts the coverage area of the new RF12 will be as effective as UHF...particularly with the power level that was granted for these translators. But I am guessing that was the most available under the current rules. And WSOC obviously chose 12 in an effort to save these translators with the decreasing amount of available spectrum (post repack). At any rate, I wish WSOC success with the new Statesville and Crowders Mountain translators on RF12.

In the end, the true test will be how well these translators serve the core viewers in the market (relative to the old UHF frequencies) who cannot otherwise obtain the main WSOC signal out of NE Charlotte. Hopefully those viewers will try the most effective VHF antenna for the translators.
First and foremost study up on antennas (everyone) I see too many gimicky wife acceptance pieces, I know you tried the: Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna and that is truly not a VHF Hi antenna at all, so I can see where it failed to receive channel 12. something simple as this: 30-2475 - Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174-230MHz. is in expensive and is cut to receive intended channels.

So I stand by my statement get the right antenna for what you want to receive, Basic cable from Spectrum is $35.00 a month for local channels plus tax and fees, in less than 6-months someone can have a few in expensive VHF/UHF antennas and it pays for itself.
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post #11960 of 12003 Old 06-03-2019, 03:22 PM
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First and foremost study up on antennas (everyone) I see too many gimicky wife acceptance pieces, I know you tried the: Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna and that is truly not a VHF Hi antenna at all, so I can see where it failed to receive channel 12. something simple as this: 30-2475 - Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174-230MHz. is in expensive and is cut to receive intended channels.

So I stand by my statement get the right antenna for what you want to receive, Basic cable from Spectrum is $35.00 a month for local channels plus tax and fees, in less than 6-months someone can have a few in expensive VHF/UHF antennas and it pays for itself.
The correct antenna is indeed the important priority. But the low power levels of VHF translators may still prove problematic and should possibly be increased to replicate the prior UHF coverage area. We shall see. I wish them good luck. But I know full power VHF signals from WSPA and SCETV were increased for the repack coverage areas, so it seems the translator limits should be looked at as well.

The Stellar Labs antennas referenced are about the only dedicated High VHF antennas still manufactured, as Winegard and Antennacraft models have been discontinued. But Winegard does make High VHF/UHF combo antennas such as the 7694 and 7698 models, and there is a smaller RCA version they make with less gain. And Denny's Antenna has a High VHF antenna that can be ordered as part of their HD Stacker antenna made by Winegard.

As for the aesthetically pleasing antennas, the Antop 400BV and Winegard Elite have VHF dipoles, along with the Clearstream 4V/4MAX. But these antennas will have less VHF gain than the stronger Stellar Labs versions. The Mohu Sail does not really seem to have much VHF capability.
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post #11961 of 12003 Old 06-03-2019, 04:21 PM
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[B]As for the aesthetically pleasing antennas, the Antop 400BV and Winegard Elite have VHF dipoles, along with the Clearstream 4V/4MAX. But these antennas will have less VHF gain than the stronger Stellar Labs versions. The Mohu Sail does not really seem to have much VHF capability.

OK, those antennas have one or two dipole elements. They are not at all any sort of decent VHF antenna. If you live about 15-miles or less from the tower or you are hoping for some FM sure. Put the same effort in a VHF antenna like you would a UHF antenna. I am in UNCC Charlotte area and as example I wanted to receive Greensboro. I purchased several higher end large multi element antennas and adjusted multiple times with height and direction till I found a sweet spot.

Aesthetically pleasing and physics are two different things one makes your significant other happy the other gets you around 72 channels or more.
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post #11962 of 12003 Old 06-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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Oh for the CM 1160a V/U combo to be back...I’d put one up in a heartbeat..If iirc..they were almost 11 feet long..

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post #11963 of 12003 Old 06-03-2019, 07:24 PM
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First and foremost study up on antennas (everyone) I see too many gimicky wife acceptance pieces, I know you tried the: Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna and that is truly not a VHF Hi antenna at all, so I can see where it failed to receive channel 12. something simple as this: 30-2475 - Fringe Directional Antenna VHF-Hi HDTV 174-230MHz. is in expensive and is cut to receive intended channels.

So I stand by my statement get the right antenna for what you want to receive, Basic cable from Spectrum is $35.00 a month for local channels plus tax and fees, in less than 6-months someone can have a few in expensive VHF/UHF antennas and it pays for itself.
Yes, I didn't go all out trying to get the translator. I just used what I had - namely the Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna that I've used for a while to serve a guest bedroom TV to avoid too many splits on my main antenna for the L/R and MBR.

I guess I was just a bit surprised that I didn't see a 'hint' of the signal whereas before the same antenna brought that translator in very strong. I already get main WSOC on my L/R and MBR TV sets so I've never really (personally) had the need to invest in a dedicated VHF antenna.

But the important thing is 'you' recommended a specific model based on your experience; and that's the kind of helpful feedback that's needed on these forums
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post #11964 of 12003 Old 06-04-2019, 07:29 PM
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Yes, I didn't go all out trying to get the translator. I just used what I had - namely the Mohu Sail Outdoor Multi-Directional Antenna that I've used for a while to serve a guest bedroom TV to avoid too many splits on my main antenna for the L/R and MBR.

I guess I was just a bit surprised that I didn't see a 'hint' of the signal whereas before the same antenna brought that translator in very strong. I already get main WSOC on my L/R and MBR TV sets so I've never really (personally) had the need to invest in a dedicated VHF antenna.

But the important thing is 'you' recommended a specific model based on your experience; and that's the kind of helpful feedback that's needed on these forums
I think we all agree the dedicated High VHF antennas from Stellar Labs provide the best reception for a low power translator on channel 12. I will give that a try when the time comes, but I am hoping I will have better luck with the main WSOC signal on channel 19. I already have the Channel Master 4228-HD antenna in place. But I will switch to the new Channel Master dual input preamp, because the Winegard LNA200 seems problematic for VHF signals. My old Channel Master preamp pulled in 13-WLOS, but the Winegard does not. I have ordered the new version Amplify Plus preamp from Channel Master, but have not yet put it in place. It has separate UHF and VHF inputs like the old 7777 version. And I may use filters or an A/B switch for the Charlotte and GSP channels, but I have not made that determination yet.
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post #11965 of 12003 Old 06-05-2019, 05:08 AM
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I have the Winegard LNA200, and it is not a strong VHF preamp. Sometimes that is a good thing.
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post #11966 of 12003 Old 06-05-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jspENC View Post
I have the Winegard LNA200, and it is not a strong VHF preamp. Sometimes that is a good thing.
It works good for UHF, but I have hard the noise figure may not be too good for VHF. And also possible overload concerns.
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post #11967 of 12003 Old 06-05-2019, 08:05 AM
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I understand the antenna concerns in areas which will switch from UHF to VHF during the repack. But if I understand correctly, none of the Charlotte UHF channels (3, 9, 18, 36, 46/55, 58, 64) will switch from UHF to VHF (PBS ch 42 is already VHF 11 and will change to VHF 9). Channel 3 will stay on 23, while the remaining UHF channels play musical chairs, but all will remain in the UHF band.

So, looks like my attic antenna with pre-amp, which receives all the above channels nicely, including VHF 11, should continue to work adequately after the repack. Or,... am I missing something?
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post #11968 of 12003 Old 06-05-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by A J View Post
I understand the antenna concerns in areas which will switch from UHF to VHF during the repack. But if I understand correctly, none of the Charlotte UHF channels (3, 9, 18, 36, 46/55, 58, 64) will switch from UHF to VHF (PBS ch 42 is already VHF 11 and will change to VHF 9). Channel 3 will stay on 23, while the remaining UHF channels play musical chairs, but all will remain in the UHF band.

So, looks like my attic antenna with pre-amp, which receives all the above channels nicely, including VHF 11, should continue to work adequately after the repack. Or,... am I missing something?
I think you've got it (covered it). The only other one (that affects me) is the translator for WAXN China Grove. I am thinking it's going from RF36 to RF30 - but unsure if it will occur at a different time versus the other Charlotte repacks.
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post #11969 of 12003 Old 06-06-2019, 06:55 AM
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post #11970 of 12003 Old 06-06-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by evan237 View Post
I think you've got it (covered it). The only other one (that affects me) is the translator for WAXN China Grove. I am thinking it's going from RF36 to RF30 - but unsure if it will occur at a different time versus the other Charlotte repacks.
Hopefully most folks will not require a major change in antennas or set up. Just a few isolated cases such as translators and so forth for most major channels.
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