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post #1951 of 3464 Old 12-11-2008, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by drewbrunelle View Post

the new HD channels are live on the test channels in the 980's.

On what system?
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post #1952 of 3464 Old 12-11-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ElectricPickle View Post

On what system?

Cox cable. So excited to see NFL HD!
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post #1953 of 3464 Old 12-11-2008, 07:47 PM
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So far the new channels that are up is:

980 Palladia
981 NFL HD
982 AMC HD
983 Bravo HD
984 Sci-Fi HD
985 Planet Green HD
986 LMN HD
987 VS HD
988 Hallmark Channel HD
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post #1954 of 3464 Old 12-12-2008, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Nocableguy View Post

FWIW, I spoke with someone in Engineering today at wgfl/wnbw and he said the test signal was essentially full strength. He said it was expected to be on the air for good Jan 1.

I actually am picking it up quite well with my UHF yagi. It's hard to really tell seeing as it's just static text on a screen with a motion background.

If this is the case, I may just stick with that. When I get my tivo back, I'll actually have a better idea of signal strength. When the tivo says it's above 80 on the meter, I can count on a nice strong picture.

Piggie, did you actually get your 1080 yet? I just scanned your post really quickly.
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post #1955 of 3464 Old 12-12-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

The idea was for local ads (why we tivo) and local news. And though it made me crazy for years on DirecTV because they dropped nationals before they added Orlando, there is well, don't think less of me, a good reason. 80% of the US watches TV on cable or satellite. If locals were not must carry, the remaining 20% would not support the cost of the tower, transmitter, much less the amount of electricity used to transmit. So really us OTA people have to be thankful for must carry rules, even if in a twisted but rational way.

I don't think the local guys that do Dish installs (I could be wrong) are with Dish, so yes, someone may have handed your address to him and said "tree troubles".

I had 9 trees taken out this summer for $4800 (I know OUCH). They didn't grind the stumps, so I hired a local guy for $300 to grind them all. So the real cost was $5100. Now he didn't take the trees away, instead used a Bobcat to pile them in back (I live on a acre). It will take me years to cut them all up. Anyone that needs firewood, they are pretty well seasoned now. You just have to cut and split them, but I have a TON of wood. I was quoted $1500 a tree by many people including stump grinding and clean up. So that is the going price.

Oh I'll have a backyard FULL of firewood soon enough.

Concerning the Distant Network Service, I understand the local ad sales perspective. (I worked for a video production company which was contracted by the cable company that I also contracted with - in the ad sales production dept) Take the example of NBC. A year ago, if you wanted NBC at your house, the best you could do would have been put up a huge antenna and wish. Oh they HAD the signal on the satellite... but you just weren't allowed to have it. (this is where i get extremely cynical) This is where I agree a little bit with the FTA guys.... "you bounce the signal through my backyard? don't get pissed when i receive it and view it" especially considering that a person a couple of towns away is allowed to see it for no other reason than a qualifying zip code.

But no... i never hate people for opposing viewpoints. Really want to stir the pot sometime? Ask me if i believe copying something is stealing..... (disclaimer, i am a musician)
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post #1956 of 3464 Old 12-12-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I actually am picking it up quite well with my UHF yagi. It's hard to really tell seeing as it's just static text on a screen with a motion background.

If this is the case, I may just stick with that. When I get my tivo back, I'll actually have a better idea of signal strength. When the tivo says it's above 80 on the meter, I can count on a nice strong picture.

Piggie, did you actually get your 1080 yet? I just scanned your post really quickly.

That is a good sign. This may mean west of 13th St (US 441) WNBW is strong enough anything works.

Yes, the 1080 is here, been a little under the weather so it's still in the box, so I am bad for not testing it yet. When you get your tivo if it's not 80 or above, I bet that antenna would fill the bill.

Another idea if you have stuff around the house and a little time is to build a dipole for CH9. Wish I had some way to do eng type drawings on the computer. But one could take a 10 feet stick of pvc and 2 tees. One tee goes at the middle of the dipole. The dipole is horz, parallel to the ground. A piece comes back to get away from the mounting pole/mast (assuming your UHF is on a pole). The other tee is at right angles to the one in the middle of the dipole so it's parallel to the mast. Then radiator clamps hold it to the mast. If you make a simple dipole, try just hooking the coax directly or if you make a folded dipole with flat lead (better), you can run the flat lead out to a balun. Combine with a 2 set splitter.

The only draw back might be if you are marginal on your UHF as the combiner will eat up to 3db of our UHF signal.

The hardest part if finding a small piece of 300 ohm without having to buy 100 ft. I suppose also if you don't have spare balun and splitter laying around.

Which I guess is why if a 1080 worked, it would be as cheap in the long run.

One thing I could test on the 1080 out here in Orange Springs would be the beamwidth of the UHF part. I searched the threads here and every person that bought one was happy, but I didn't know how far away, much about their town. I could look up their town's transmitters but that doesn't help if you don't know where they live. The threads were old enough I wasn't sure if they would see it, etc. The antenna came out almost a year ago now.

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post #1957 of 3464 Old 12-12-2008, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

Take the example of NBC. A year ago, if you wanted NBC at your house, the best you could do would have been put up a huge antenna and wish. Oh they HAD the signal on the satellite... but you just weren't allowed to have it. (this is where i get extremely cynical) This is where I agree a little bit with the FTA guys....

Really want to stir the pot sometime? Ask me if i believe copying something is stealing..... (disclaimer, i am a musician)

Oh, I understand! I lived here on DirecTV for about 5 years without locals. The rotor on my tower failed pointed at 51 and 20, which was ok, then the antenna failed (amp still works today) on my tower. DirecTV kept saying they would get locals so I waited and waited. I missed getting grandfathered into the national locals by some small amount of time (hooked up in 1998). So there I was being able to see the national channels in the guide but not receive them. I did get PBS national with the package which I didn't understand. Then finally we the locals were available but they blacked out the national PBS that had shows WUFT didn't have. I was unhappy and it seemed crazy.

If this were an different forum I would ask you opinion of copying. I love to talk opinions and it's better if two don't agree or why talk about it? It's like the way the country is/was with two sides politically, that don't talk, actually think they are at war? crazy, this is the US and we are supposed to discuss opposing views!

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post #1958 of 3464 Old 12-13-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

That is a good sign. This may mean west of 13th St (US 441) WNBW is strong enough anything works.

Yes, the 1080 is here, been a little under the weather so it's still in the box, so I am bad for not testing it yet. When you get your tivo if it's not 80 or above, I bet that antenna would fill the bill.

Another idea if you have stuff around the house and a little time is to build a dipole for CH9. Wish I had some way to do eng type drawings on the computer. But one could take a 10 feet stick of pvc and 2 tees. One tee goes at the middle of the dipole. The dipole is horz, parallel to the ground. A piece comes back to get away from the mounting pole/mast (assuming your UHF is on a pole). The other tee is at right angles to the one in the middle of the dipole so it's parallel to the mast. Then radiator clamps hold it to the mast. If you make a simple dipole, try just hooking the coax directly or if you make a folded dipole with flat lead (better), you can run the flat lead out to a balun. Combine with a 2 set splitter.

The only draw back might be if you are marginal on your UHF as the combiner will eat up to 3db of our UHF signal.

The hardest part if finding a small piece of 300 ohm without having to buy 100 ft. I suppose also if you don't have spare balun and splitter laying around.

Which I guess is why if a 1080 worked, it would be as cheap in the long run.

One thing I could test on the 1080 out here in Orange Springs would be the beamwidth of the UHF part. I searched the threads here and every person that bought one was happy, but I didn't know how far away, much about their town. I could look up their town's transmitters but that doesn't help if you don't know where they live. The threads were old enough I wasn't sure if they would see it, etc. The antenna came out almost a year ago now.

I'm nearly sure I have plenty of material. My brother-in-law just built that Youtube "db4" UHF antenna and got HD ota for the first time... now he's hooked.

My original plan involved some sort of VHF antenna and a combiner to go with my existing UHF. I'll have to hit sonic signal to jog my memory of which components I had picked out. After seeing WNBW's signal I just figured I'd wait and see what it looks like. Before I put up my rooftop (UHF mounted on a 5 foot pole on tripod), I was using one of those indoor UHF, VHF set top boxes (Hey, it said HD antenna on the box - I'm totally kidding folks, I knew better before I bought it) Even with its 55db amp, it would macroblock pretty badly on FOX 51 and CBS 28.1.
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post #1959 of 3464 Old 12-13-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I'm nearly sure I have plenty of material. My brother-in-law just built that Youtube "db4" UHF antenna and got HD ota for the first time... now he's hooked.

My original plan involved some sort of VHF antenna and a combiner to go with my existing UHF. I'll have to hit sonic signal to jog my memory of which components I had picked out. After seeing WNBW's signal I just figured I'd wait and see what it looks like. Before I put up my rooftop (UHF mounted on a 5 foot pole on tripod), I was using one of those indoor UHF, VHF set top boxes (Hey, it said HD antenna on the box - I'm totally kidding folks, I knew better before I bought it) Even with its 55db amp, it would macroblock pretty badly on FOX 51 and CBS 28.1.

Ok sounds like between you and/or brother in law, you guys are builders. The 1080 I bet would work out there. I want to drive into west Gainesville and try it.

That said if your UHF outside is picking up all the UHF and you locked WNBW, you don't need much antenna, just outside (maybe attic). If you don't want to spend the money for a 1080, I am willing to bet a dipole put you at 80 signal or better on most receivers, maybe higher. I you want to eliminate any possible skip coming in from other Ch9s (not very likely post transition), build the three element beam. My original idea to make it weather proof with a 5 way pvc coupler is probably hard to find. 4 ways aren't easy but I bet someone in Gainesburger has one. Then you could make a boom to mast clamp with a couple of muffler clamps/u-bolts. You could get fancy and put a pair of nuts and bolts to tie on the balun to the twinlead.

I can't remember if I posted a link to the guy that built the beam with wood and then painted the wood.
http://www.skyscan.ca/3ElementYagi.htm
He lists the dimensions for the FM band only but it's easy to use them for high band because the FCC intentionally made high band the second harmonic of the FM band to reduce interference to other services (broadcasting). An aside you find most of the freq assign from back post WW2, they assigned the same service to the second harmonic and often the third. Back then transmitters were not as good and actually any semiconductor interface will re-radiate 2nd harmonics, like a rusty fence.

So the ATSC carrier is 187.31 MHz for Ch9.
http://www.answers.com/topic/north-a...cies#VHF_bands
Divide that by two gives 93.655, then round that up to the next FM channel of 93.7. Then just divide his dimensions by two and you have a ch9 beam.
http://www.skyscan.ca/dimension_table.htm
He give dimensions for up to 6 element beam, which should yield about 7db of gain. Considering things like built on wood, not perfect, etc, at least 5 to 6 db. Remember if you double the length of a yagi, you double the gain on a long boom yagi. A 3 element is about 3db, 4 element is about 4 db, then a 6 element is about 7db. To get to 10db you have to go to a 10 element. 13db would take a 20 or more elements. The benefits get less the longer the boom. By his plans a 20 element Ch9 would get to be 25 ft long, hanging over the fence into the neighbors yard, lol.

One guy took a YA-1713 and added directors until it was 24 feet long. The directors on the YA-1713 are closer together to tune the higher highband channels.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/w1713.html

----------

All that said, if you look back a few posts to a page I was reading the Orlando thread and some of them to pull in Ch11 WESH that are 40 to 50 miles out are using an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13
They are so inexpensive for you it would be tempting since you own a UHF antenna already.

Being lazy I would probably buy the AntennaCraft. I use one of their FM antennas, built cheaper than a Winegard, but we don't have ice here. If possible it's good to lower your antenna if a hurricane is coming.

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post #1960 of 3464 Old 12-14-2008, 08:34 AM
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Hey all in Gainesville, check out the Test channels 980+ as they showing the new HD channels!
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post #1961 of 3464 Old 12-15-2008, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

Ok sounds like between you and/or brother in law, you guys are builders. The 1080 I bet would work out there. I want to drive into west Gainesville and try it.

That said if your UHF outside is picking up all the UHF and you locked WNBW, you don't need much antenna, just outside (maybe attic). If you don't want to spend the money for a 1080, ...

If I actually decide to go with a YA-1713 or an HD-1080 (or any other VHF antenna for that matter) after running that through a combiner like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR

would I be looking at a DB loss? I know if I split the signal between multiple TVs I would.... never really thought about combining however.
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post #1962 of 3464 Old 12-15-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

If I actually decide to go with a YA-1713 or an HD-1080 (or any other VHF antenna for that matter) after running that through a combiner like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR

would I be looking at a DB loss? I know if I split the signal between multiple TVs I would.... never really thought about combining however.

and by DB, I mean dB.... (no one wants to lose a database... )
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post #1963 of 3464 Old 12-15-2008, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

If I actually decide to go with a YA-1713 or an HD-1080 (or any other VHF antenna for that matter) after running that through a combiner like this:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ANTDRCT-COMBNR

would I be looking at a DB loss? I know if I split the signal between multiple TVs I would.... never really thought about combining however.

Hey, President Nixon wanted to loose his databases! (if you remember or studied Watergate).

It seems every time I think I know all the combiners on the market, some brings up a new one. I have never noticed or seen that one before. From the outside it looks well built. It fits in the price range of one in a weather proof enclose.

Here is an interesting thread where a guy says buy the cheapest.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15211452

Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna (UVSJ)
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=UVSJ

If you do a good job with compression fittings, they expand in the rear of the fitting forming their own O-Ring type seal. So do you really need weather proof? I don't know, but I can say I defaulted for same band antennas to using Winegard CC 7870 2-Way Antenna Joiner Coupler
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CC7870
NOTE, I use this one for SAME band coupling.

Now there is another factor I have found time and again in Florida. Moisture, humidity, etc. I have never kept condensation out of anything I sealed over the long haul. I have discussed this with many home antenna builders with the same results.

We all found that instead of sealing something, we could enclose it in an plastic leftover container. Turn it upside down, put holes in the lid for the coax to go in and out. We did this with homemade preamps for 426MHz Amateur TV. Mine never went bad over about 5 years. I just glued the circuit board to the inside bottom of the leftover container (like tupperware). Then used a U clamp to hold it to the mast, cut holes in the lid for the coax, and put the lid back on with some glue, so it would not fall off. This is basically what the Antenna Direct box you showed me does. It breathes. The heat of the day will dry out any moisture. If it's sealed, the moisture is sucked in at night when it cools, but doesn't seem to bleed out in the day.

Hence to me the best enclouse for FL is one that breathes and not sealed, just protected. This is why I use the 16 dollar Winegard instead of just a splitter (which electrically will work).

So if about $10 is not an issue I would go with the Antennas Direct you show, over the Pico Macom, which would be fine for a budget.

========

Now just to be sure you saw my post about the AntennaCraft antenna, which in the past I had not talked about, but I like the price.
AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband-Broadband VHF HD Yagi for Channels 7-13
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13

I base the fact this antenna works on three things. A lot of guys in the Orlando OTA thread love it. I love their FM beam (Radio Shack sold it for decades). And more than anything, if you are locking WNBW on your UHF antenna, there is a ton of signal where you live and probably west Gainesville. Again you could probably just build a dipole, but 5 elements pointed at Newberry should slam your signal meter full tilt (back from the days of analog signal meters on equipment). If you buy it with the combiner at SolidSignal you save a lot on shipping, unless you can find both things cheaper elsewhere (a lot of times you can). I use Solid Signal for links here because they work and don't move their products around to new URLs.

AntennaCraft has a reputation of being built cheap. Well yeah, it's lighter gauge stuff in general. Part of how some of their small antennas are so reasonably priced. I would not buy their large antennas. That is me. But the little 5 element high band is not big. 60 inch boom. I would not mount if up on a tower I paid someone to climb, but on a pole or roof, it will probably last forever. My FM beam is 15 years old and still ok. Mine I bought at Radio Shack and it's been a while since they carried it.

Antennacraft FM6 6 Element FM Antenna
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=FM6

I have it pointed at Gainesville for that new LP jazz station. My current FM doesn't have a signal meter but it locks solid. I can turn it to Jax or Orlando and hear their strong stations without fade. Part of my problem are my walls are aluminum, ie trailer. So I have to have something outside, now I put up a metal roof.

Hope this overly verbose extended long post helps.

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post #1964 of 3464 Old 12-16-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

Hey, President Nixon wanted to loose his databases! (if you remember or studied Watergate).

lol! yes.... and sadly, I've lost DBs of my own

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So if about $10 is not an issue I would go with the Antennas Direct you show, over the Pico Macom, which would be fine for a budget.

So no signal loss?
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post #1965 of 3464 Old 12-16-2008, 03:15 PM
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lol! yes.... and sadly, I've lost DBs of my own
So no signal loss?

Tell me about it, I have lost some that took weeks to rebuild. Since them I double backup my data to two NAS boxes.

All combiners have loss, and without good test equipment it becomes hard to say how much. Pretty much at the mercy of the manufacturer.

==========
The guy that made the post AntAltMike here:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15211452

On Monday, I just coupled a few UHF antenna into VHF downleads on a large building with about a dozen antennas, using whatever Pico, Holland, Centronics and unlabeled "UVSJs" I had on hand. I measued in-band insertion losses ranging from .2 dB to about one and a half dB. The losses through each band joiner varied over the UHF spectrum, but not with or inverse to frequency. They just fluctuated over the spectrum.

I know of no reason to believe that any UVSJ has any more or any less insertion loss than any other, and I'm sure I have installed more of them than anyone here. And you couldn't even measure loss precise to tenths of a dB using an antenna as a signal source just by rapidly switching componenets, because the output level coming off the antenna will continuously fluctuate by a few tents of a dB, even with a clear line-of-site to the towers,
============

I totally buy into what he is saying. Though I don't have the experience with comparing them as he does, nor the equipment, his argument is sound from my RF (Radio) background.

Basically he says they all seem to work about the same (they are very simple inside and very little way to make one different). Also the part where he says they are non-linear over the UHF spectrum, unrelated to a rising or dropping frequency, and they are not all the same. Normally (in case you don't know), the higher you go in frequency on the same transmission device, like coax, connectors, one almost always sees a bigger loss at the higher frequency. So him saying he saw it fluctuate makes sense. This is because the path through the combiner is so short it doesn't change much with frequency. If it's just a wire balun type combiner, that means there are less frequency dependent part. But what does happen is UHF is short enough of a wavelength, that the 1/4 is only about 5 inches. Hence there can be resonance between the balun, the shields, or just the torrid itself inside that it responds different to different frequencies.

Bottom line, is even if one of the channels falls on a worst case according to AntAltMike, you should not see a problem. That is about the same loss at 20 to 25 feet of line. It is possible if you are right right on the edge, you will see a change for the worse. But normally in the real world 1.5db does not make or break a connection. You could tell if one of your UHFs pixelates from time to time, then it's possible you will see more with the combiner. If you don't see any now, you probably won't with the combiner.

The ultimate thing would be have test gear and a sack of combiners, then go through them and find ones that have the lowest loss on the channels you need. Of course this is only available to a professional installer with a selection in his truck and the test equipment.

In the end he is saying electrically, the UVSJ preforms as well as the expensive ones. What I leaned toward in my previous post was I like the construction of the Winegar and the Antennas Direct better for mounting outside on a mast. But that changes the price from $4 to $16, plus shipping.

---

To be redundant (works good for computers) this is why if you can find one antenna that does it all, you are ahead, not using a combiner.

But in your case you implied to me your UHF was working fine on all our UHF channels, which I guess I presumed solid no pixelization or drop outs. Add that to the fact you said you locked WNBW ch9 on a UHF yagi, means you don't need much VHF gain. Part of why I said a home made dipole or yagi outside combined with your present UHF would probably work fine or if lazy buy the little Antenna Craft 5 element high band beam.

Then I if I get more aside and verbose. I believe if I remember you have a little Radio Shack or equivalent UHF beam. That is about 10db of gain looking straight at a station, and tapers to 7 db about 25 degrees off either side, and normally drops off fast after that (out of the main front horizontal lobe).

Then considering the single combined antennas I have found (seems I keep missing some and some are new), there is a jump in beamwidth between the HD-1080, and the HD7694P. Though the HD7694P is not any narrower than your current UHF and not real tight on ch9 either. Which is best? Probably only a field test would tell. The 1080 is half the price of the 7694P.

Still the fact the Radio Shack works over the spread you have between WOGX and WGFL, means if you are splitting the difference, your beam then is only about 6db for those stations. Add to the you locked WNBW, to means the HD1080 would have plenty of gain.

I think you are close enough to all towers (maybe not WOGX) that any metal up in the air is line of sight and gets a signal. It is very possible if you put a UHF loop or single bow tie and a VHF dipole up 15 feet (clears the peak of your roof ) you would lock all the stations. If your brother in law lives near you and locks all the UHF on his homemade antenna inside, that means there is a lot of signal.

I Hope I didn't type to much. But I figure if you are a Unix/Linux sysop you have the type of mind like me were there is never enough information.

-------

On another note, WNBW is looking bad for me. Skip was dead on VHF so I turned the back of my YA1713 at WFTV and nulled it into static and luckily that also meant I was pointing directly at WNBW.

But,, arggggggggggggg.. My TV's both looked on UHF skip from WFTV's ch39.1 signal mapped to 9.1

Dang this mapping! I doubles the chance you will have co-channel problems.

It is looking more and more like I need to proceed with stacked yagi's pointed down south to WESH.

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post #1966 of 3464 Old 12-16-2008, 11:06 PM
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wow, does anyone really pay for hallmarkhd and lmchd? you would have to pay me to watch the rubbish they call programming. all i want is espnewsHD
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post #1967 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 06:36 AM
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Cox is adding WNBW (NBC) on January 16th to their HD digital tier.
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post #1968 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 06:49 AM
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To be redundant (works good for computers) this is why if you can find one antenna that does it all, you are ahead, not using a combiner.

My original plan to combine was so that I'd have the ability to point the UHF between WOGX and WCJB and split the difference while being able to point the VHF in a totally different direction. I grew up with an antenna and rotor so I hated having to run to the other room and turn the knob... and wait for the antenna to point itself. Having a single antenna solution would mean adjusting it right?
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post #1969 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 07:54 AM
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My original plan to combine was so that I'd have the ability to point the UHF between WOGX and WCJB and split the difference while being able to point the VHF in a totally different direction. I grew up with an antenna and rotor so I hated having to run to the other room and turn the knob... and wait for the antenna to point itself. Having a single antenna solution would mean adjusting it right?

Did you mean splitting WOGX and WGFL which are 78 degrees apart. But the fact they are both in the -30 dbu range means that if you are splitting those two and not what you said above, you should be fine for UHF. That puts each station 39 degrees off the center of your beam width. Considering your 3db points should be about 50 degrees for a small UHF Yagi, that is a stretching it, but also shows how much signal is available to you for it to work.

But then if you had a HD7694P to include Ch9, it's 38 degrees at that ch, so if the beam were spliting WOGX and WGFL/WNBW, it would put ch9 way past its 3db point. According to it's polar plot, it would be 6db down at 38 degrees off center. Which then reduces it's gain to 3db at best.

Then if you take the HD1080 solution, it's bi directional on ch9 with 80 degrees on either side, which would be at the edge. Which would be about -10 db, which sounds really low.... BUT! You locked Ch9 on a UHF Yagi, which probably even worse than -10db on VHF. A 1080 is even wider on UHF than your Radio Shack, but with less gain. So it would have about 4db if you split WOGX and WGFL.

That is why it's so hard to give a solid answer. When the margins on paper of an antenna system get that close to the edge. One can be dead wrong and buy the wrong antenna.

Why I want to drag my HD-1080 to NW Gainesville, set up on a tripod and see what happens. I have little BW and spare converter box also. The converter box would also answer your signal strength questions since you don't have your Tivo.

More is wishes were horses. Too bad Gainesville doesn't have a single ant farm like Orlando has Bithlo. Many cites have one and it's sweet. Point and forget.

But it really irks me that WNBW is mapped to 9.1, which won't just mess me up but anyone in Marion County. It also means that people in Gainesville need to keep their antenna as low as possible so they never see 39.1 or use a highly directional array and turn it (probably not needed). But for those of us south and south east of Gainesville, this well it just sucks! Because WESH at best even on a tower less than 300 ft will fade sometimes. Where WNBW even weak is LOS to me! So in theory you keep adding gain. Any signal that is true LOS can be pulled up with enough antenna.

I really won't know until Feb 18th. But I might be able to add more gain to my UHF, lower it down as low as possible, but put my VHF up high. That would make combining a nightmare. Almost too much work.

If WNBW raised to 30 to 40 KW though I bet it would almost always capture the mapping tuner away from 39.1. argggggggggg..........

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post #1970 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by drewbrunelle View Post

wow, does anyone really pay for hallmarkhd and lmchd? you would have to pay me to watch the rubbish they call programming. all i want is espnewsHD

It would be sweet if ESPN and ESPN2 built out an OTA network. You can fit to 720p HD programs on one RF channel with slight compression, no worse than cable or satellite does. I watch a lot of Racing, and often watch ESPN2 on my SD satellite. (why I don't upgrade to HD is I don't want a contract or rent equipment. Maybe when all the dozens of SD receivers I have collected die I wil switch, hoping nearly everything is HD by then).

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post #1971 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 07:59 AM
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Cox is adding WNBW (NBC) on January 16th to their HD digital tier.

Will they drop WESH the same day? or do they even carry it?

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post #1972 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 10:37 AM
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Cox has not made a formal announcement as to the long term status of WESH on their Gainesville system. WNBW is being added in January at a different channel location, and is not currently replacing WESH NBC programming. However, due to syndication market exclusivity, Cox will most likely be forced to black out certain WESH non NBC programming to protect WNBW's newly acquired broadcast rights.
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post #1973 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 04:43 PM
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The new Cox HD channels are live. Lifetime, Versus, AMC, Sci Fi, PALHD, GREHD, and MHCHD
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post #1974 of 3464 Old 12-17-2008, 08:23 PM
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Yes they are live....they are glorious..


How did you hear about the NBCHD ???
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post #1975 of 3464 Old 12-26-2008, 07:53 AM
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Then if you take the HD1080 solution, it's bi directional on ch9 with 80 degrees on either side, which would be at the edge. Which would be about -10 db, which sounds really low.... BUT! You locked Ch9 on a UHF Yagi, which probably even worse than -10db on VHF. A 1080 is even wider on UHF than your Radio Shack, but with less gain. So it would have about 4db if you split WOGX and WGFL.

That is why it's so hard to give a solid answer. When the margins on paper of an antenna system get that close to the edge. One can be dead wrong and buy the wrong antenna.

Why I want to drag my HD-1080 to NW Gainesville, set up on a tripod and see what happens. I have little BW and spare converter box also. The converter box would also answer your signal strength questions since you don't have your Tivo.

I got the TiVo back and hooked it up on Christmas Eve. It looks like about 50% signal strength on 9.1. I think I'm going to hook up a set of VHF rabbit ears and see what that does. I'll probably end up with a rooftop by the end of the next month. If you are happy with the HD1080, I might just look into that. Since 9.1 is the ONLY VHF that I care about, I'll just point at that tower and leave the UHF where it is... unless you think the HD1080 will do it all... I can't remember if it's a combo antenna.
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post #1976 of 3464 Old 12-26-2008, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I got the TiVo back and hooked it up on Christmas Eve. It looks like about 50% signal strength on 9.1. I think I'm going to hook up a set of VHF rabbit ears and see what that does. I'll probably end up with a rooftop by the end of the next month. If you are happy with the HD1080, I might just look into that. Since 9.1 is the ONLY VHF that I care about, I'll just point at that tower and leave the UHF where it is... unless you think the HD1080 will do it all... I can't remember if it's a combo antenna.

50% is good on a short out door UHF log/yagi (I should have written down people's antennas! not just their approximate location). I think you have a small UHF like the cheap Radio Shack? About 40 " boom? http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088

There is nothing on that antenna that should resonant at ch9, unless it's a fluke I am not seeing. Hence that is a ton of signal for a UHF system picking up VHF. But I would not say it's enough to keep a solid signal all the time. It might be, as I don't have that much experience at low power stations not too far away. I have W29AB that I watch at about the same distance and it comes and goes (but it's analog).

A good test would be to see what the signal is on rabbit ears. Measure them to about 31 inches tip to tip, and put them straight out like a dipole. That would be an excellent test, even inside your house. Now you have the Tivo back you have a way to keep track of signal strength.

I am happy with the design of the HD1080, but I am way too far from Ch9 to test it except on UHF. Other's in other forums here are happy with it.

The big question I keep raising is does it have enough gain for you on Channel 9? I am willing to bet it's greater than your UHF antenna since it's designed for VHF and UHF (yes it's a combo). Maybe my bigger question is does it have enough gain for you on UHF, but again I think it probably does. It has 3 to 4 db less than your current UHF, but your current UHF is more directional, hence over all channels without a rotor it probably equals out.

I have one here, a HD1080 that is not mounted, still in the box (lazy me). I have a tripod unless you have one. Extra pieces of coax to tie in your system. I could come over and test it if you have time. If you have a tripod, which I think you said, that would make it even easier to jump in the car and not hook up my trailer to carry the tripod and pole. If you don't have a pole I have a 10 ' section like you buy at radio shack I use to test in the tripod.

If it works, it would be the prefect inexpensive NW Gainesville antenna. In the SW I would have to try, as the spread between WGFL and WOGX gets greater, but then one would be closer to WOGX in SW Gainesville.

I can IM you my phone or email address if you want to try, as I am curious also.

If the 1080 doesn't work, then that cheap Antenna Craft VHF would work for you since you already have UHF covered.

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post #1977 of 3464 Old 12-26-2008, 11:17 AM
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Hey Piggie:

Sorry I've kinda fallen off the face of the Gainesville thread, there's just so much to read that I've been putting it off and putting it off and now it's all piled up on me! While I'm in NJ visiting relatives (read--bored out of my mind) I'll attempt to go back and read through everything I've missed and make some posts. =)

Hope you had a Merry Christmas.

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post #1978 of 3464 Old 12-26-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

50% is good on a short out door UHF log/yagi (I should have written down people's antennas! not just their approximate location). I think you have a small UHF like the cheap Radio Shack? About 40 " boom? http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088



I have one here, a HD1080 that is not mounted, still in the box (lazy me). I have a tripod unless you have one. Extra pieces of coax to tie in your system. I could come over and test it if you have time. If you have a tripod, which I think you said, that would make it even easier to jump in the car and not hook up my trailer to carry the tripod and pole. If you don't have a pole I have a 10 ' section like you buy at radio shack I use to test in the tripod.

If it works, it would be the prefect inexpensive NW Gainesville antenna. In the SW I would have to try, as the spread between WGFL and WOGX gets greater, but then one would be closer to WOGX in SW Gainesville.

I can IM you my phone or email address if you want to try, as I am curious also.

If the 1080 doesn't work, then that cheap Antenna Craft VHF would work for you since you already have UHF covered.

Yep, that's the exact antenna.... it's been quite awhile since I bought it, but I guess not much has changed.

I have a 5 foot pole mounted on a tripod on my roof... I could just take the UHF down if you wanted to test out your HD1080.
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post #1979 of 3464 Old 12-27-2008, 09:09 AM
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Hey Piggie:

Sorry I've kinda fallen off the face of the Gainesville thread, there's just so much to read that I've been putting it off and putting it off and now it's all piled up on me! While I'm in NJ visiting relatives (read--bored out of my mind) I'll attempt to go back and read through everything I've missed and make some posts. =)

Hope you had a Merry Christmas.

- Trip

No, every single blog, maillist, forum I frequent, was dead dead dead for the last week. Little wonder! Merry Christmas! It was time for a break!

Santa was good, he brought me one of those Ebay ATSC USB tuners. Just came in today and not even unpacked. I need to download the drivers, dig out a spliter so I can feed it with antenna signal. I haven't even checked how it takes input. I will obviously keep you up to date on the adapter.

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post #1980 of 3464 Old 12-27-2008, 09:48 AM
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Yep, that's the exact antenna.... it's been quite awhile since I bought it, but I guess not much has changed.

I have a 5 foot pole mounted on a tripod on my roof... I could just take the UHF down if you wanted to test out your HD1080.

Gee, what is the tripod tied down with? Won't that be a hassle? The best way to put a tripod on the roof if it's a asphalt shingle is to try and hit a stud or use some kind of toggle bolt to tie to the plywood.

If it's easy to take down, I won't bring the stuff. That Radio Shack UHF has not changed in years. I have never bothered to figure out who makes it, but it has to be someone probably Antenna Craft, or Winegard (maybe) because over the years that has been their antenna line.

It's amazing that RS wants $60 plus tax for an HD1080, and they are carrying the new line of Winegard VHFHB/UHF antennas or a few of them at double the price.

Right now I am unemployed, and looking so I am free, so let you name the day and I am probably free. As long as I know what to bring.

I also have a 4221A and YA-1713 in the box if you are interested to see what they will do. But honestly unpacking and packing the 1713 is a little hassle as they dont like to fold back up and open twice all that well. Plus that after what we have learned in the last 2 weeks is way too much antenna for NW Gainesville. If the HD-1080 doesn't work, then I am 90% sure you can order an Antenna Craft Y5-7-13
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13

Which is the cheapest solution. If you already have a combiner. It about breaks even of you buy that expensive combiner, but that cheap one I found that also has good reviews it would still be cheaper.

At the same price, to me, the idea that maybe a single antenna solution would work just is simpler.

This post may say it all.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14076335
He had a 4 bay bowtie and the discontinued Winegard small HB/VHF (very close to the Y5-7-13 I suggest above). He replaced it with the HD-1080 and had the those results.

It is exactly what I expected. It needs to used under 20 miles from towers. It will loose some gain compared to a VHF yagi in his channel 13 to be expected.

But notice he only lost signal on channels 14 and 53, where most UHF antennas have the most trouble at the band edges. We do have to deal with a channel 16 (WCJB) here in Gainesville, but that is at least 18MHZ up from the bottom of the band and it's only 10 miles from the corner of 34th and 39th. Your worst case at 17 ft (assuming your tripod is on the peak of the roof) is WOGX and with the HD-1080 you should have -30dbm, which is a ton of signal. After looking at tvfool.com for you approx address, I would not be surprised at your height it pins the meter on all channels. If not that is what we need to know.

I can post it here to save clicking.
=================================

SkiSmuggs Posted:

HD-1080 personal experience
My Winegard HD-1080 2-bay UHF/high VHF antenna arrived yesterday ($36 plus shipping). This morning I removed a Winegard 4-bay UHF, a Winegard YA6713 high-VHF, a UHF/VHF diplexor and the coax associated with all that and replaced them with the HD-1080.
I live 14 miles from the towers on Mt Mansfield with LOS to them, ideal conditions for a downsized solution. The tuner is a VIP622 from E* Here are the results showing station, digital channel, before and after signal strength:

Call, Actual CH, 2 Antennas 1 Antenna (I edited his table legend to improve making sense.)

WCAX - 53 99 92
WPTZ - 14 96 88
WVNY - 13 87 81
WETK - 32 98 98
WFFF - 43 100 100

So I lost about 6 points on 3 stations, but still good and the mass on the mast is 1/3 of what it was and the appearance is much cleaner. I'm thinking this is a keeper.
BTW, the signal goes thru a 4-way splitter with no amplifier.
=================================

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