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post #2011 of 3464 Old 01-01-2009, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I see nothing but a gray screen for WNBW (with no audio).... I'll rescan but if my TiVo tuner doesn't get it.... I'm what I like to call "super screwed". I checked last night, and I was pulling a 60% signal strength on that gray screen... at least before I was seeing the "WNBW Digital Channel 9" test screen.

Kid's watching TV for the next hour so I have to wait.

I am watching it right now. Amazed WFTV is not wiping it out. All I can figure is I turned the antenna perfect to null Orlando. I am totally amazed it's coming in here!

I talked to them a couple of times yesterday during the transition giving signal reports, so they kept me up to date also.

They indeed have a few glitches and during the evening last night between about 6 to 8 range on to about 11:30 they lost audio to some receivers (like one of mine).

They also had a lot of periods between about 4:45 when the first showed something besides the test pattern to about 11:30 when they truly went live of no video.

They found several things they could not static test and had to test live with live and local feeds.

You wrote at 9:37 am today and I turned on my set at 10am and it was there. So I don't know if they got a few hours of sleep and did some testing this morning, because I too was sleeping. I was sober, lol, but I stayed up very late.

Lets hope they have the problems solved. Last time I called with my last signal report was 11:30 and they sounded totally exhausted! I am sure you have been there with some server that just won't go and spent 18 hours at work in one day.

I am hoping when the kids are done you have a signal.

When this is all settled, we all need to email their admin staff complementing their technical staff for a job well done. Putting a new channel on the air is a non trivial event, and now with digital it's even wilder.

One would think, well they put 28 on the air digital, what the big deal? Well each network has it's own equipment to connect to the network. They specify what you will buy, so you have to learn their equipment. Also the other boxes running WNBW are not all the same brand, model, etc as WGFL. More learning curve.

Let me know when your kids are done with the TV how things are going over there. If we think it's their problem we need to forward any information to them. They are very open to customer input.

Sadly though it looks like there is no chance they are going to change antenna , raise power, for folks like me on the out skirts. Or even folks like you in NW Gainesville that need a minimal outside antenna. So for now the WNBW we have is the WNBW we have.

There are good reasons for their decision but it's internal and not proper for a public forum. (I might need a job there one day!)

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post #2012 of 3464 Old 01-01-2009, 08:08 AM
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I am watching it right now. Amazed WFTV is not wiping it out. All I can figure is I turned the antenna perfect to null Orlando. I am totally amazed it's coming in here!

I talked to them a couple of times yesterday during the transition giving signal reports, so they kept me up to date also.

They indeed have a few glitches and during the evening last night between about 6 to 8 range on to about 11:30 they lost audio to some receivers (like one of mine).

They also had a lot of periods between about 4:45 when the first showed something besides the test pattern to about 11:30 when they truly went live of no video.

They found several things they could not static test and had to test live with live and local feeds.

You wrote at 9:37 am today and I turned on my set at 10am and it was there. So I don't know if they got a few hours of sleep and did some testing this morning, because I too was sleeping. I was sober, lol, but I stayed up very late.

Lets hope they have the problems solved. Last time I called with my last signal report was 11:30 and they sounded totally exhausted! I am sure you have been there with some server that just won't go and spent 18 hours at work in one day.

I am hoping when the kids are done you have a signal.

When this is all settled, we all need to email their admin staff complementing their technical staff for a job well done. Putting a new channel on the air is a non trivial event, and now with digital it's even wilder.

One would think, well they put 28 on the air digital, what the big deal? Well each network has it's own equipment to connect to the network. They specify what you will buy, so you have to learn their equipment. Also the other boxes running WNBW are not all the same brand, model, etc as WGFL. More learning curve.

Let me know when your kids are done with the TV how things are going over there. If we think it's their problem we need to forward any information to them. They are very open to customer input.

Sadly though it looks like there is no chance they are going to change antenna , raise power, for folks like me on the out skirts. Or even folks like you in NW Gainesville that need a minimal outside antenna. So for now the WNBW we have is the WNBW we have.

There are good reasons for their decision but it's internal and not proper for a public forum. (I might need a job there one day!)

I managed to sneak in a 10 minute long channel scan between kids shows. The TiVo is really odd about things because I had scanned channel 9-1 previously, and I could tune to it but there was nothing there. After the scan the TiVo asked if I wanted to add the new channel. I looked for the "uhhh heck yes I do" button on my remote.... but settled for the "yes" button.

Picture is flat out amazing. I haven't seen a single drop out in the past hour.. no macroblocking. Remember, this is with my little 20 dollar UHF yagi (my VHF and combiner arrive tomorrow via fedex)

The sound seems to be stereo as my AVR is doing Dolby Pro Logic II with it instead of Dolby Digital....

Love it!

As far as their decision to run it at a very low power setting, I think your idea of hitting the Ad sales dept is a GREAT one. I think it needs to be played from the dish perspective however. With the rise of dish subscribers, there are a lot more OTA folks out there.... WNBW is NOT going to like missing viewers. When I was in the Cox office turning in my box and canceling cable altogether (on Tuesday) I counted 3 others bringing in boxes to cancel as well. That may not seem like a big number but consider that I was only there for 10 minutes around 10am on a workday. I'd imagine that they are hemorrhaging customers by charging 90 dollars for digital/HD....

We'll see.
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post #2013 of 3464 Old 01-01-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I managed to sneak in a 10 minute long channel scan between kids shows. The TiVo is really odd about things because I had scanned channel 9-1 previously, and I could tune to it but there was nothing there. After the scan the TiVo asked if I wanted to add the new channel. I looked for the "uhhh heck yes I do" button on my remote.... but settled for the "yes" button.

Picture is flat out amazing. I haven't seen a single drop out in the past hour.. no macroblocking. Remember, this is with my little 20 dollar UHF yagi (my VHF and combiner arrive tomorrow via fedex)

The sound seems to be stereo as my AVR is doing Dolby Pro Logic II with it instead of Dolby Digital....

Love it!

NBC uses 1080i, I also noticed from watching WESH for the last year, that NBC and PBS seem "crisper" and more vivid color than CBS, ABC or FOX, when there is a network HD feed.

My older bedroom TV you can punch in a channel and if there is no co-channel mapping interference (not real co-channel), it's there. My living room TV is much pickier, one HAS to scan for new channels. I can punch in an analog and see it but not a digital.

I also learned another VERY important trick for people like me that have seen or might see WFTV 9.1 (39.1 actual). Point at WNBW during day when there is not chance of skip from Orlando, scan for channels. Both my receivers had locked on 39.1 mapped to 9.1 over the years and was a HUGE if not the main reason I was not decoding 9.1 here for the last month. Evidently even though there was moderate skip last night since my TV's now think 9.1 means 9.1 actual, they didn't miss a beat. I had all three receivers on them to give signal reports.

Like you, I found if in doubt, scan, rescan, it's not like the old days of punching in a channel. Then quirks like your Tivo to accept the scan.


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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

As far as their decision to run it at a very low power setting, I think your idea of hitting the Ad sales dept is a GREAT one. I think it needs to be played from the dish perspective however. With the rise of dish subscribers, there are a lot more OTA folks out there.... WNBW is NOT going to like missing viewers. When I was in the Cox office turning in my box and canceling cable altogether (on Tuesday) I counted 3 others bringing in boxes to cancel as well. That may not seem like a big number but consider that I was only there for 10 minutes around 10am on a workday. I'd imagine that they are hemorrhaging customers by charging 90 dollars for digital/HD....

We'll see.

Personally I hate cable from many angles and many reasons, both their TV and internet. It is why I went DirecTV 10 years ago, not that I have some love affair with them either, but its less of a hate relationship than I have for cable. So yes, cable needs a huge reset in their coolness vs price.

There is a HUGE perception problem with OTA with years of snowing pictures and ghosts. I am not sure how many people unless they are over at someone's house and actually see OTA understand, it's not your grandma's OTA anymore. A good example. I have an inlaw Aunt and Uncle. I had the husband talked into buying or building an OTA for his new HD sets. His wife nixed the deal with the statement "Why do we need an antenna, we have cable."

There was 3 decades of customers that did in fact receive a better picture on cable than anything most of the antenna systems could receive. You can look in that couples neighborhood (over 25 years I have going to the inlaw's house), and once almost every house had an antenna, now about one in twenty have an antenna. Lots of satellite dishes, so the area is probably split between 45% cable, 45% some satellite and 5% OTA outside antennas.

That is probably not unlike a lot of areas. Some towns have it better than we have with a single antenna farm also. One problem are the VHFs showing up like they did to us. Before WNBW was even possible a simple $40 antenna worked. Now it appears between price hikes and such, some might be able to do OTA for $100 or maybe more in Gainesville. Still that is one month of COX, and it should last at least 5 years if not longer.

It would be nice is WNBW even went to 15 to 25KW. But the problem is more political than technical.

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post #2014 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 04:05 PM
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I put up my new Antenna Craft VHF today and aimed it at WNBW. I put it through a combiner to go with the existing UHF. I also purchased another 5 foot extension pole (they're on clearance at Lowes right now for just under 6 bucks a pole so I bought two.... for no good reason) The VHF is about 30ft in the air and pointed right at 246˚. My signal quality is about 83% and looking great on screen. (I'm guessing I may have a bit of cable loss as I quickly made the quad shielded cables on the roof and plugged them into the combiner) Overall, I think it looks great, if I start seeing dropouts, I'll have to investigate the signal quality as the number is a bit lower than what I expected.
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post #2015 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 04:38 PM
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very disappointed so far. am in Alachua, just north of Gainesville.
Get WGFL just fine OTA, so I assumed WNBW would be no sweat.
So, I canceled (didnt renew) my NBC out-of-market feeds that I finagled (with great difficulty) from Dish (KNTV CA + WXIA GA),
but I get zip on digital 9.
If they don't run better power, then the FCC coverage map for WNBW on rabbitear.info is quite bogus, as it shows coverage to north of Lake City.
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post #2016 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cgrandgent View Post

very disappointed so far. am in Alachua, just north of Gainesville.
Get WGFL just fine OTA, so I assumed WNBW would be no sweat.
So, I canceled (didnt renew) my NBC out-of-market feeds that I finagled (with great difficulty) from Dish (KNTV CA + WXIA GA),
but I get zip on digital 9.
If they don't run better power, then the FCC coverage map for WNBW on rabbitear.info is quite bogus, as it shows coverage to north of Lake City.

I had zip with a pair of rabbit ears. I was pulling 50 to 60% with a UHF antenna. So I think height and LOS has a LOT to do with it.

No need to fight with Dish though, although I didn't know it at the time, the tech I spoke with was trying to tell me what to do about getting NBC. (he kept re-iterating that they didn't offer "Distant Network Services or DNS) A quick google search showed me what I would have to do. REGARDLESS, now that WNBW is a "local", you won't have to fight with anyone to get it Dish will happily give it to you. (for an extra 5 dollars).
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post #2017 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 05:23 PM
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well you're right, I could probably get WNBW now through Dish. Maybe. I get the other locals already via Dish, not being able to get NBC through them is only a $1.50/mo differential. HOWEVER, locals via Dish are only (in this market) SD, not HD, so I rely on OTA. And as I said, WGFL comes in FINE OTA, so I don't know why WNBW wouldn't also.
(so why pay Dish for local if you can get them OTA ? Otherwise, you can't use their DVR for recording them, program guide, etc. Anyway, doesn't cost much compared to everything else I buy from Dish).
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post #2018 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cgrandgent View Post

very disappointed so far. am in Alachua, just north of Gainesville.
Get WGFL just fine OTA, so I assumed WNBW would be no sweat.
So, I canceled (didnt renew) my NBC out-of-market feeds that I finagled (with great difficulty) from Dish (KNTV CA + WXIA GA),
but I get zip on digital 9.
If they don't run better power, then the FCC coverage map for WNBW on rabbitear.info is quite bogus, as it shows coverage to north of Lake City.

The coverage map is not on Rabbit Ears, that is just a link to FCC (Federal Communications Commission) site. But yes, it's way way over optimistic.

I am in Orange Springs, 37 miles from their tower. My antenna is about 20 ft up, or about 60 ft AMSL (Above Mean Sea Level). So I am not on high ground and a long way out. I have up a Winegard YA-1713 and getting 42 to 49 percent.

cgrandgent, try this. If you receiver has add channels try that. If that doesn't work do a scan like you just bought the receiver. I didn't get WNBW until I did a scan for channels. Just punching it in and even add channel didn't work on either receiver. The reason why is if you have owned the receiver hooked to an outside antenna for even a few weeks, it probably locked on 39.1 out of Orlando that also maps to 9.1 So you have to "shock" the receiver back to a fresh start so it can find WNBW on 9.1 mapped to 9.1

What type of antenna do you have and how high?

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post #2019 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I put up my new Antenna Craft VHF today and aimed it at WNBW. I put it through a combiner to go with the existing UHF. I also purchased another 5 foot extension pole (they're on clearance at Lowes right now for just under 6 bucks a pole so I bought two.... for no good reason) The VHF is about 30ft in the air and pointed right at 246˚. My signal quality is about 83% and looking great on screen. (I'm guessing I may have a bit of cable loss as I quickly made the quad shielded cables on the roof and plugged them into the combiner) Overall, I think it looks great, if I start seeing dropouts, I'll have to investigate the signal quality as the number is a bit lower than what I expected.

I would have thought you would get more than 83%. But since you are LOS, you should not see much if any fading. I would live with that for your investment. I would be thrilled to get 83% ! Then again I am at 37 miles from their tower. This sounds crazy but you could try lowering the antenna unless you already have. It's possible up higher it's blocked by something.

Geezzzz, now I think I should have brought over all my antennas.

But that is insane. 12.7 miles from a station. That should be rabbit ear range.

I don't mean to sound negative but the programming on WESH is better. I understand WNBW is a new station, etc. but WGFL has been around for a long time and they have little local programming. I waited until now to add the second YA1713. Yesterday I was ready to point both of them at Gainesville. Now I am more tempted to point both at WESH and see what happens. I am not real hopeful I can pull WESH up enough to see it all the time, so it's a catch 22, but considering I like the programming better on WESH, why not try? Even putting it up that way, I can swing it to WNBW to see what that does.

They really need 15 to 25 KW. We need to start calling that their signal is marginal and drops out sometimes (it does drop here once in a while for about 5 seconds so I guess it's aircraft skip).

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post #2020 of 3464 Old 01-02-2009, 06:50 PM
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Hey right now, it's the best looking channel I have... seems that WCJB went craptastica. They seem to do this jumping back and forth between HD and SD. Normally the nighttime shows are all HD but browsing Supernanny, it appears to be SD as are the commercials that are running. I saw WCJB do this in the middle of an episode of Grey's Anatomy once... all of a sudden the picture jumped to 4:3 low resolution. I understand they make no promises about what "DT" being HD but I'd like it if they'd just leave it alone.

I'll probably be back up on the roof tomorrow running new cable. I used compression fittings on quad shielded cable but I'm really bad about leaving bits of shielding on it and not really getting down to the white sheath. I'll probably try some regular RG6 with crimped ends so I can use the weather boot. (it's a short run of standard RG6 from the antennas into the combiner box) I have 100' of quad shield left over if I ever want to run it all again.

Antenna arrays... I don't know anything about 'em but I'd love to know if the stacking works for ya.
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post #2021 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

Hey right now, it's the best looking channel I have... seems that WCJB went craptastica. They seem to do this jumping back and forth between HD and SD. Normally the nighttime shows are all HD but browsing Supernanny, it appears to be SD as are the commercials that are running. I saw WCJB do this in the middle of an episode of Grey's Anatomy once... all of a sudden the picture jumped to 4:3 low resolution. I understand they make no promises about what "DT" being HD but I'd like it if they'd just leave it alone.

A lot of it is WNBW is showing pure network feeds with very little local cut in, so yes they stay HD a lot more than other channels even WGFL that does have some local ad clients.

I have seen my bedroom (older) receiver on a weak signal for a very brief moment confuse widescreen with 4:3. But it then either drops out or goes back to 16:9 in a split second. Never noticed it on WCJB, but on skip and WESH which can drop out on me.


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I'll probably be back up on the roof tomorrow running new cable. I used compression fittings on quad shielded cable but I'm really bad about leaving bits of shielding on it and not really getting down to the white sheath. I'll probably try some regular RG6 with crimped ends so I can use the weather boot. (it's a short run of standard RG6 from the antennas into the combiner box) I have 100' of quad shield left over if I ever want to run it all again.

I bought a cable stripper. I come from old school of making coax connections for the last 30 years or more. I thought I really don't need one. But I found a compression tool I liked on line that was as cheap as a kit with a stripper. Man was that a good choice. Stripper makes it so simple. And this is from a man (me) that though all a tech needed to fix anything was a good Simpson voltmeter, clip leads and a few hand tools. Strippers are the bomb.

Another handy tool I laughed at for a while in my kit was a spreader. I didn't realize it's benefits until I redid some old connections. The only time you need it is on old weather dried cable. After you strip the cable, you push it on (it has a hole for the center conductor and the white insulation), and it goes under the outer black jacket and spreads it just a little. This allows one to slip on a compression fitting (before compressing) where other wise you would fight it to get if on if at all.


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Antenna arrays... I don't know anything about 'em but I'd love to know if the stacking works for ya.

The more I read about them you can do them 2 ways. With a lot of computer programs or like we did back in the day, just try them! Basically you have an array now with your V/U antennas.

I am not totally sure how well any of the V/U combiners really block the unwanted signal (keeping the VHF from being picked up by the UHF antenna for example and visa versa). So I would assume the worst.

Hence make the cable from the V and U antennas as close as possible to the same length. It just hit me that if your combiner is less than perfect you may be getting mulit path on 9.1 from the combining of the two antennas. It depends on how my V gets through the combiner from the U antenna.

One timely way to check would be hook to the V antenna without the U feeding the combiner, but the combiner still in place. If you wanted really exact results one would terminate the U input with a 75ohm terminator, but I don't think you need to do that. With the combiner in place you will still have about your 3db loss through the combiner.

Start with the V pointing at their tower. See if the reading is the same without the U antenna connected. Then move the V a little side to side (up to 50 degrees) and see if there is a better place. If you are getting multipath this would be about your only test. I have even heard of people pointing away from the tower to kill multipath (basically they they used a reflected signal to receive). Once you find the best spot hook the U antenna back up. See if it holds the signal level.

You should not have to do this for your U antenna because you already know its best position.

Another thing you want to consider first is the antenna's should be about one wavelength away from each other on high band. This works out to be about 5 feet for high band. It affects your highband antenna more than your UHF if they are too close together, causing parts of the UHF to resonant on VHF, skewing the pattern. We know the Radio Shack $30 antenna does resonant to a degree on ch9 (187.31MHz). Also like you said a bad coax connection can pick up signal.

Those are some ideas to try.

If you like doing this sort of stuff, you should consider getting a ham radio license.

Few rules of thumb on stacking TV antennas. If you build a coaxial transformer for a specific channel you can achieve 3db gain, the same as doubling the length of an already long boom yagi. If you use a combiner and the antenna are identical and pointed in the same direction (either side by side or over each other), the gain is about 2.1 to 2.3 db, depending on the combiner.

Using a phasing harness (coax transformer) you really limit say a pair of YA-1713's to one channel. Probably in the real world (though I have not tested and guessing) it would work of 2 to 3 channels. If you use a combiner then the antenna work over their entire range.

If you point two antennas in different directions, over most of the resulting pattern you loose 3db. If you combine U and V like you are doing you loose about 3db.

I am curious if you saw a reduction in your UHF signal strength after putting in the combiner?

Another question I have never been totally sure I know if with your Radio Shack U antenna, can you really pick up all the Gainesville UHF decent? Include signal levels if possible.

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post #2022 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 07:34 AM
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As much as I like that we now have NBC in Gainesville area these guys are screwing up programming royally!Actually they began broadcasting at 11:45 (approx) pm 12-31-08 without sound for at least 30 minutes then everything seemed ok.But wait for it, wait for it yup somebody is asleep at the switcher!Early 7am Jan-1st I watch 2 see the Today Show only 2 find they're playing commercials 4 at least 3 minutes into the Today broadcast & this isn't all!They have proceeded to screw up actual return to show times with commercials to pick up later mid sentence where U have 2 be a genius to figure what was going on previously!Although sometimes they're spot on with commercial inserts it's a bit disconcerting to tune in 4 a show to find a barrage of commercials blaring then opens Your program as before "mid sentence"!As I am not a football or 4 that matter much of a sport fan I will not b disturbed by this incompetence at the switcher but I'm sure there are many who will b.If it is that they need to generate revenue more than show NBC programming then they're getting right down to it then.But otherwise I rate the new WNBC channel a low c- for total effort.
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post #2023 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 07:39 AM
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Give them a few days to work the bugs out. None of this equipment ever works properly right away, I'm sure the engineers are hard at work fixing the problem.

Any station installing new equipment has tons of issues. My local CBS started an HD newscast a few months ago and had audio problems for several days until they figured out which wire was loose.

Just be patient. =)

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post #2024 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BFWE1ATNET View Post

As much as I like that we now have NBC in Gainesville area these guys are screwing up programming royally!Actually they began broadcasting at 11:45 (approx) pm 12-31-08 without sound for at least 30 minutes then everything seemed ok.But wait for it, wait for it yup somebody is asleep at the switcher!Early 7am Jan-1st I watch 2 see the Today Show only 2 find they're playing commercials 4 at least 3 minutes into the Today broadcast & this isn't all!They have proceeded to screw up actual return to show times with commercials to pick up later mid sentence where U have 2 be a genius to figure what was going on previously!Although sometimes they're spot on with commercial inserts it's a bit disconcerting to tune in 4 a show to find a barrage of commercials blaring then opens Your program as before "mid sentence"!As I am not a football or 4 that matter much of a sport fan I will not b disturbed by this incompetence at the switcher but I'm sure there are many who will b.If it is that they need to generate revenue more than show NBC programming then they're getting right down to it then.But otherwise I rate the new WNBC channel a low c- for total effort.

I think to be fair you have to give them some time to get things going. There are many things they will have to deal with including a limited budget. Also keep in mind that OTA for broadcasters is a revenue loser. They do it only because it's federally mandated, they have to. I moved here from another Florida market where all of the TV stations went digital about 3 years ago. Some were more successful than others but they all had the "failure to throw the switch" problem at some point in time. One station had recurring transmitter problems. For two years they had to go to low power until the replacement part was shipped by slow boat from Taiwan. My biggest complaint has always been that the broadcasters put up these fancy Web pages and proudly announce their "digital prowess" but never, ever, ever would put a status page up so that we, the viewing customer, could know for sure if it's their problem or our problem. I can't tell you how many hours I spent adjusting antennas, receivers, etc. only to find out that they are on low power. That experience has pretty much confirmed my suspicion that local broadcasters really don't care about OTA viewers. Just barely meet the FCC requirements and move on.
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post #2025 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 10:19 AM
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Ok guys I already said I was willing 2 cut them some slack but then I'm not a football /sports fan per se & they've got 2 get better sooner or sports maniacs will b screaming!BTW for some peeps info it seems Comcast has contracted with WNBW to carry their signal in the Williston & surrounding areas that Comcast has.Check it with tvguide.com/listings & enter a zip in areas around Williston (32696).
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post #2026 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 11:20 AM
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Whoa, everyone. I was a broadcast engineer for decades. Those guys are doing great at WNBW.

Most of what you saw Wed night were tests that could not be performed completely in static mode.

They had to be sure all their feeds were hitting the transmitter at the same levels why you saw things over and over.

Then NBC was late sending their audio encoder. They tried with the loaner to get to 5.1 Dolby but could not do it. By accident they set the audio to MPEG-2, which is not the DTV Standard so most receivers when silent.

I noticed it here from a program Trip turned me on to and I called them as soon as I figured out what was wrong (it took me a while since my newer Living room TV had sound). 2 minutes after I called he had the sound back to AC-3 when you noticed it came on. When I called you could hear how tired they were, after 18 hour plus day.

They will and probably have worked out most of the bugs.

========

That said, you also have to consider that both CBS and NBC are a lot newer than the other stations. Lower budget, and yes, if it were not for cable I can promise you they would not be here. The deal COX made them, they actually do depend on their OTA signal more than they planned because they don't have the competition from WESH, which is staying on most cable systems around here. Just think what situation they leaves them in, but they went ahead with the NBC deal anyway.

I have to admit I am in the cat birds seat here is north east Marion Country. I get Orlando locals on DTV and get Gainesville locals on OTA. I have to admit also if I didn't get WESH over satellite, I might just leave my VHF pointed at them, and I still might. I have not made up my mind. To me it's a balance of a constant signal from WNBW or some times no signal from WESH, vs the difference in their programming.

I can't combine them pointing at each station and loss the 3db, they are both too close to edge of reception. I am starting to think I need a rotor on my VHF and leave my UHF's pointed at Gainesville. There is no usable UHF besides Gainesville where I live at all.

So lets give them some time and some slack. If they were not there I would not even have to consider, just watch WESH on the antenna with it's drop outs.

I don't have HD on satellite as I refuse to sign any contracts during the recession. So I am not going to "lease" their receivers.

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post #2027 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 11:30 AM
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OK, I went down to Home Despot and bought a tiny, amplified, external antenna, and am now getting WNBW, at signal strength 66% (WGFL is 92%).
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post #2028 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgrandgent View Post

OK, I went down to Home Despot and bought a tiny, amplified, external antenna, and am now getting WNBW, at signal strength 66% (WGFL is 92%).

Well for WNBW anything above 60% is beyond imagination unless you live in Newberry.

What antenna did you buy? Try to keep track to help people out that come later.

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post #2029 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 12:51 PM
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A newbie here, so cut me some slack if I'm a bit slow. I'm in SW Gainesville, only 8.4 miles from the WNBW tower. I'm using a Centronics ZAT502 HD tuner with indoor Philips MANT510 antenna.

Up until around Dec 31, I had been receiving the test signal broadcast no problem. On Jan 1 I started receiving the HD broadcast perfectly (with the bunny ears completely retracted). However, since Jan 2, I have been unable to tune, with ears full extended and in all sorts of positions/angles.

Signal Strength is consistently 80% +. However, Signal Quality is 0 and sometimes jumps up to 10-20%. I even tried with a different tuner (Zenith DTT501) and similar problems. I've been able once to get it to come up for a few minutes, so I know they're still transmitting.

Any suggestions? Also, did something change in the broadcast power in the last day or two?

Also, Piggie, you mentioned calling someone to discuss signal issues. Can you share the phone number?

Thanks!
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post #2030 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 01:35 PM
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It's a Futura / GE model 24769, for outdoor use. They have a similar looking model for indoor use.
I had been using an "RCA" indoor amplified one, which worked very well for all local OTA, but no dice with WNBW. I only have it mounted on a 5 foot pole. I am in Alachua, north of Gainesville.
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post #2031 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post


Another question I have never been totally sure I know if with your Radio Shack U antenna, can you really pick up all the Gainesville UHF decent? Include signal levels if possible.

Oh yeah, everything is very acceptable these are my peaks even though they are fairly typical:

WUFT-DT: 93%
WCJB-FT:100%
WGFL-DT:88%
WOGX-DT:81%

I'm really quite impressed with that little antenna.

My brother in law is pulling them at lower percentages with his homemade DB2/4 (that's what I call the coat hanger DB4 copy the "DB Two by Four"

He was telling me this morning that he can't even pull WNBW at all. He'll get a glimmer every now and then but nothing to watch.
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post #2032 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 05:47 PM
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I'm using a cheap $10 RCA indoor rabbit ears with UFH loop antenna I got from Wal-Mart and I get WUFT, WGFL, WOGX, WCJB without any problem here in SW Gainesville. I'm within 10 miles of WNBW and I'm getting absolutely nothing at 9-1, 9-2, 9-3, 9-4.

It's no big deal. I have COX and use this indoor antenna just so I can use my computer's TV card but it's very disappointing that I can get WOGX without a problem here in SW Gainesville with an el cheapo indoor antenna and can't even get WNBW a stone's throw away from me. I should be within rabbit ear range.

Anyone know when COX will add WNBW? From what I understand, as a condition of the NBC affiliation, WNBW will have to provide local news within a year. If I had to guess, New Age Media which operates WNBW, WGFL, and My11 will probably create one news team that will broadcast on all 3 stations to get the most out of the investment and ad revenue which has to be expensive in this economy.

Also, what is the status of COX Gainesville upgrading to 1GHZ? They recently boosted their HDTV count to 40 HDTV channels and from what I've read they are shooting for 100+ in all of their markets by 2010.

Is COX compressing the hell out of the signal? It looks great to me but I've never been one to tell or care too much about minor differences in quality. Any correct OAR HDTV looks tons better than standard definition. What I can't stand is strech-o-vision standard definition upconverted to HD. The AMC HD channel is un-watchable because of that but that's an AMC problem not a Cox problem.
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post #2033 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 06:30 PM
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I've got the Philips Silver Sensor antenna and am picking up WNBW wonderfully in NW Gville. Oddly enough, a friend in my neighborhood with the exact same antenna can't get any signal from WNBW (but he gets all the other locals). Anyone have a clue why that would be? I doubt that I just happened to have my antenna pointed in the exact perfect direction.
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post #2034 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by G8rfreak View Post

I've got the Philips Silver Sensor antenna and am picking up WNBW wonderfully in NW Gville. Oddly enough, a friend in my neighborhood with the exact same antenna can't get any signal from WNBW (but he gets all the other locals). Anyone have a clue why that would be? I doubt that I just happened to have my antenna pointed in the exact perfect direction.

Do you both have the same TV (or tuner)?
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post #2035 of 3464 Old 01-03-2009, 11:45 PM
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I have a TERK HDTVa antenna in my SW GNV apartment and get all of the local channels with very high meter readings on my Samsung HDTV. However, I am having issues with WNBW. For the first two nights of the broadcast, I would get by with two to three bars of signal, but I would not get anything Sat. afternoon and night (like the station just went away).

I am aware of the 4.9 kW (!) output, but think it's a shame. I have been waiting for a local NBC station so I can watch some NBC programing in HD without a bloody HD box from Cox. I hope something can be fixed. In the mean time, are there any new tricks to try for an apartment dweller?

Charles/KG4TLG
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post #2036 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinggator View Post

Do you both have the same TV (or tuner)?

No, we have different tuners.

Daweathaman, I also have a Samsung HDTV and was getting WNBW with a strong signal all day and night Saturday. I also have a Vizio HDTV and same strong signal with that.
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post #2037 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinggator View Post

A newbie here, so cut me some slack if I'm a bit slow. I'm in SW Gainesville, only 8.4 miles from the WNBW tower. I'm using a Centronics ZAT502 HD tuner with indoor Philips MANT510 antenna.

Up until around Dec 31, I had been receiving the test signal broadcast no problem. On Jan 1 I started receiving the HD broadcast perfectly (with the bunny ears completely retracted). However, since Jan 2, I have been unable to tune, with ears full extended and in all sorts of positions/angles.

Signal Strength is consistently 80% +. However, Signal Quality is 0 and sometimes jumps up to 10-20%. I even tried with a different tuner (Zenith DTT501) and similar problems. I've been able once to get it to come up for a few minutes, so I know they're still transmitting.

Any suggestions? Also, did something change in the broadcast power in the last day or two?

Also, Piggie, you mentioned calling someone to discuss signal issues. Can you share the phone number?

Thanks!

We can get so technical here at times having learned more ourselves about this new digital TV thingie, we should post from time to time, newbies welcome, all questions are valid questions. 2 years ago, I knew nothing about DTV, though I come from decades of broadcast experience.

Here is a thread here on your antenna. I know little about it personally, but it seems like a solution, since it has rabbit ears for VHF and that enclosed antenna for UHF.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=959057

I have seen lists of indoor amplified antennas tested by those with equipment and most of them fall out but the Philips MANT510 fairs well in results. The above thread does talk about the gain resetting itself and having to cycle the power from posts in 2007. Probably lucky to get any answers on a thread that hasn't seen posting for 6 months.

They didn't change their power level. I can confirm that from my location.

I don't understand when you talk about Signal Strength vs Signal Quality, but your receiver may have that. Does it have something to do with the QAM tuner (cable) in it?

Here is my best guess and it's a guess. Try not just tuning WNBW but put the receiver in scan mode and see if ch 9.1 comes back.

Also from reading the thread on your antenna be sure to cycle off it's power and back on before trying the scan.

It may have just been good or bad conditions.

==

From what I am hearing from people in Alachua and even NW Gainesville, using indoor antennas for WNBW is marginal at best.

Another thing to try is: Extend the rabbit ear part out horizontal, so they are flat as possible. Then measure from tip to tip of the 2 ears, to 30 inches. Then rotate that configuration.

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post #2038 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 09:04 AM
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One thing that is common in the with everyone (I know a lot of you live in apts and have limited choices) using what some call gimmick indoor antennas. Please I am not acting snotty but read other cites where people tried many of these antennas. These are not my conclusions but those of test labs and users here in other cites.

The only one that seems to shine through in tests I have read is the Silver Sensor , but it's NOT VHF antenna. There is also an amplified version of the same design Terk Technology HDTVi VHF/UHF HDTV Indoor , but it's also a UHF only antenna. So this is not a very good solution.

Judging from listening this week one needs more antenna for WNBW a LOT closer to it than I ever imagined! I have a YA-1713 up 20 feet out in Orange Springs (ESE of Gainesville) putting me 37 miles from their Newberry tower. My signal is 40 to 50%. I also have a CM7777 preamp.

NoBleach has a AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?PROD=Y5-7-13 up 30 feet and he is only 10 miles from tower and only getting 83% signal.

=========

So we have 2 problems.

One is flat out WNBW is running very little power 4.9KW. That alone is a problem. This is probably enough to be "on the air" and get picked up by COX.

Another thing I think is happening that is due to their lower power in particular in town, is I bet there is a good deal of multipath. It just makes no sense to me that NoBleach only gets 83% with his antenna up 30 ft. TVFool.com says he should have -49 dbu. Add his 6 db antenna, subtract 3db combiner, and probably 3db in coax and the antenna and the feed line balance out. Still a -50 dbu range signal should give full scale. I am wondering if he has multipath. Remember I get 50% 20 miles farther away. Also remember just because I am running an amp, that doesn't increase my gain, it just compensates for my feed line looses. I have 2 spliters for 3 sets so my most distance sets have about 10db of loss in feedline, but the amp more than makes up for this, hence my TV's see exactly what the antenna sees as far as signal. Those in NW Gainesville probably can't run amps due to being so close to WUFT tower.

Second problem. Now we have a VHF station, so many antenna's like Silver Sensors are not made for VHF, though if you are in the right place they may work.

Which jumping back to 1.1 about mulitipath someone said their SS ant worked on WNBW but someone down the street it didn't. This really sounds like multipath.

What the heck is the solution?

One is to put up a directional antenna on the roof or attic. If you live in an apt if your decor can take it you might have to suspend a small VHF from the ceiling. I know, this would look funny. We considered people building a folded dipole out of 300 ohm flat lead but if no one is having good luck on rabbit ears in Gainesville, I doubt it would help. Some can try it. If anyone wants links let me know. I posted them here a few pages back.

--

Maybe though the biggest problem is 4.9 KW is just not enough power.

I would go to their website, where you can find their phone number and let them know the antenna you have and that the signal is unacceptably weak and they need to run more than 4.9KW to be of service to the community.

There is also a form, you normally have to visit their studio that is complied and sent to the FCC. It is normally used for your compliments or objections to programming, so I don't know if that is a good idea for technical problem, but it affects the community.

The fastest answer if you can is to put up an outdoor antenna. At this point though I thought in the past it was overkill is the Winegard YA-1713. It has the most gain you can buy and it's about $50 shipped to your door. I think SolidSignal has the best price, but Google the name.

The next choice if you want a smaller antenna as nobleach has 83% is the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for $30 with shipping. It doesn't have the gain of the Winegard, but if you can get in the 80's like nobleach really that is good enough. I only get WOGX at 81% but it's solid all the time.

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post #2039 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 09:17 AM
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Did you get my last update for screen caps? without the image or EIT?

You should have in your webmaster inbox, all of Gainesville now without the extra, low errors, plus WESH.

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post #2040 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 09:31 AM
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Yes I did. I've been trying to get my DTR page up to date since yesterday, and watching for what the WeatherPlus shutdown was doing to local station's feeds before that, so I've been swamped with other stuff. This morning, RTN has shut down (at least temporarily) so I'm trying to figure out if stations are replacing the red slide of death with something. Hopefully I'll get it all posted some time in the near future.

I'm getting so far behind...

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