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post #2041 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

Oh yeah, everything is very acceptable these are my peaks even though they are fairly typical:

WUFT-DT: 93%
WCJB-FT:100%
WGFL-DT:88%
WOGX-DT:81%

I'm really quite impressed with that little antenna.

My brother in law is pulling them at lower percentages with his homemade DB2/4 (that's what I call the coat hanger DB4 copy the "DB Two by Four"

He was telling me this morning that he can't even pull WNBW at all. He'll get a glimmer every now and then but nothing to watch.

Those are good enough not to upgrade your UHF antenna. Do you have 2 sets and a splitter inside, I forgot. Considering you are doing all that and 83% on WNBW without an amp, that is not bad at all.

I think anything above 80% is good enough from my experience. you "might" see an improvement with a 4 bay bowtie over the radio shack, but I can't see spending the money.

I still wonder if you really need your antenna so high. You are really high enough for guy wires at 30 ft. I generally say you can get by to 20 ok, 25 maybe if it's a very ridge pole (like a 50 ft push up that uses the big sections). At about 30 ft you are in the guy wire range. I bet you can come down 5 ft and not loose a thing.

Your brother in law, if he has an attic and doesn't want to put up an outside antenna, could build a homemade yagi from the link I posted here.

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post #2042 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Yes I did. I've been trying to get my DTR page up to date since yesterday, and watching for what the WeatherPlus shutdown was doing to local station's feeds before that, so I've been swamped with other stuff. This morning, RTN has shut down (at least temporarily) so I'm trying to figure out if stations are replacing the red slide of death with something. Hopefully I'll get it all posted some time in the near future.

I'm getting so far behind...

- Trip

Yeah, it's easier to build a web site than keep it current, take it from me. Or it seems like work to maintain one, but fun to start one? Well it's like anything like that. Then if you get behind or the game changes look out. Overload. Be cool about it, there are alot of changes now and I bet by this summer all this might behind us and no one much posting here but new Cox HD channels. Or maybe the big news DirecTV picks up Gainesville DMA locals, etc.

RTN? Retro TV Network? if that is it, I just google and read about it, but nothing even in Wikipedia that is often up to date instantly about it shutting down.

I did hear through the NBC grapevine that Weather Plus is being replaced with a Sports Preview channel? Wonder if you heard the rumor. WESH is still showing it, but I come to think of it I haven't seen a network cut in ages, all local news or advertisements. For a while it was getting hard to catch a local cut in for all the national weather and ads. I wonder if WESH is keeping it local? Then for about an hour yesterday afternoon, they showed an E|I program, with no Weather Plus border, and it was in letter box, which I found odd. I know there is a station in Abilene where a fellow ham lives that had radar on 12.3 (could be wrong on the channel). FCC made them take it down as they didn't have any E|I cuts ins for kids. That is taking that dang law too far. A sub channel showing radar in tornado alley is just nothing but a community resource.

WFTV here has their own local weather sub channel but only seen it a couple of times in skip so I don't know if they have national cut ins or not. I was moving through the channels that morning and not just watching one.

No big deal on the data I sent you being up, I mainly wanted to be sure it got there.

Loosing WeatherPlus is a loss, as I found it more useful than the Weather Channel. Even though I think they own the Weather Channel now. But I am sure it doesn't make any money, then the FCC saying weather sub channels have to also have local and E|I programming, I can see them saying screw it.

Well it does make it easier for me to decide if I want a rotor between WNBW and WESH or just point at WNBW. If WeatherPlus went totally away, it would reduce the value of WESH to me.

Why can't we all just get along may not have poured over into DTV, lol :@)

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post #2043 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 02:06 PM
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RTN is actually airing on WRDQ-DT 27-2, so you might see it via DX when it comes back up. But yes, it's the retro shows.

As for Weather Plus, the national feed was discontinued, but a number of stations have kept it on locally, as you've seen from WESH.

And NBC's "official" replacement for WeatherPlus was Universal Sports, which is mostly Olympics reruns. It doesn't sound terribly interesting though one would hope they'll add more programming at some point in the future.

- Trip

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post #2044 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

RTN is actually airing on WRDQ-DT 27-2, so you might see it via DX when it comes back up. But yes, it's the retro shows.

As for Weather Plus, the national feed was discontinued, but a number of stations have kept it on locally, as you've seen from WESH.

And NBC's "official" replacement for WeatherPlus was Universal Sports, which is mostly Olympics reruns. It doesn't sound terribly interesting though one would hope they'll add more programming at some point in the future.

- Trip

Why is it when a new media starts, there seems to all kinds of cool stuff on it, then after a very short time, they see how fast they can dumb it done brother, stupefy, tabloidlize. what ever, sorry yes I am ranting.

24/7 of Michael Phelps winning one medal after another. This is good, lol.

WESH is going putting on more and more really lame stuff on 2.2. as I guess an experiment. Now you can flip there and it might be 30 minutes or more for the weather to appear. Mean while you see Suzy's mom teach her to make dress forms.

This whole thing leads me to an idea I had (Kevin Martin and I go way back, not, lol).

Mark my words, the 700 MHz auctions will flop. Even if they make some money. They no one will build out on them and if they do, it will flop within a few years. Municipalities won't use that range any more than they didn't and don't use the 800 MHz range they have for inter agency communications radios. 90% of the cities can't afford that type of system. It is like a city tryting to put up their own 5 to 10 channel cell system. A city of 100,000 to 250,000 can't afford to use that freq range. After 9/11 they cried wolf (read that cow excrement), saying if we just had it so fire could talk to police, etc. Well HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!! Part of channels 69 to 83 went to the counties and cites to build such systems. When was that? 1980s? Yes. When was 9/11 in New York biggest city in the country? 2001? Yeap. Had they ever heard of 800 MHz trunked government radio? It as all a scam. Now they are giving them what they wanted, 700 MHz freq so they can do what they never did on 800 MHz.


So much better could the 52 to 69, be local low power channels with stuff like RTN, even big boys like ESPN2 could build out a network. Then they could 2 - 6 for LP analog. I bet it would get more use than the new wasteland called the 700 MHz auctions.

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post #2045 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post


I don't understand when you talk about Signal Strength vs Signal Quality, but your receiver may have that. Does it have something to do with the QAM tuner (cable) in it?

Signal vs quality is a satellite term that is typically discussed in FTA circles although any new dish installer will face it on initial setup.

Signal strength is the signal from the LNB to the STB (set top box) cable, grounding blocks, and switches all cause a drop in signal strength as well as cable that isn't specifically for satellite installations (i.e. old school RG6 that only went up to 950MHz)

Signal quality is what we're used to in antenna land. With a satellite, anything below 65ish to 70% is probably a loss. In the new DTV era, it looks to be about the same.

I have no idea how "signal strength" could even be measured in antenna land without putting a fluke meter on the cable.
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post #2046 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

Signal vs quality is a satellite term that is typically discussed in FTA circles although any new dish installer will face it on initial setup.

Signal strength is the signal from the LNB to the STB (set top box) cable, grounding blocks, and switches all cause a drop in signal strength as well as cable that isn't specifically for satellite installations (i.e. old school RG6 that only went up to 950MHz)

Signal quality is what we're used to in antenna land. With a satellite, anything below 65ish to 70% is probably a loss. In the new DTV era, it looks to be about the same.

I have no idea how "signal strength" could even be measured in antenna land without putting a fluke meter on the cable.


So are you saying signal strength is absolute value, such as receiving a stations at -45 dbu. Where signal quality is the unlabeled meter such as we see on our sat and OTA receivers? That would make sense. The meter on a sat or OTA receiver we see on the screen has no value put to it, just zero to 100 and some I have seen are just a bar and you guess the percent.

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post #2047 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

The next choice if you want a smaller antenna as nobleach has 83% is the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for $30 with shipping. It doesn't have the gain of the Winegard, but if you can get in the 80's like nobleach really that is good enough. I only get WOGX at 81% but it's solid all the time.

Oh yeah, there are no complaints about the picture quality on the set. I have a single HDTV setup so there is no split in my signal.

I will disconnect the UHF in a day or so just to see if there is a multipath issue.

Another thing we haven't considered is what TREES do to VHF. I am in a decent canopy here. (hence why I am not a dish network customer) I have plenty of things to test out.
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post #2048 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 04:37 PM
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Those are good enough not to upgrade your UHF antenna. Do you have 2 sets and a splitter inside, I forgot. Considering you are doing all that and 83% on WNBW without an amp, that is not bad at all.

I think anything above 80% is good enough from my experience. you "might" see an improvement with a 4 bay bowtie over the radio shack, but I can't see spending the money.

I still wonder if you really need your antenna so high. You are really high enough for guy wires at 30 ft. I generally say you can get by to 20 ok, 25 maybe if it's a very ridge pole (like a 50 ft push up that uses the big sections). At about 30 ft you are in the guy wire range. I bet you can come down 5 ft and not loose a thing.

Your brother in law, if he has an attic and doesn't want to put up an outside antenna, could build a homemade yagi from the link I posted here.

Well the 30 feet is really a function of having all those 5ft poles from Lowes. I have backed down to 2 on a tripod (mostly because I don't want the UHF touching the VHF antenna) and the tripod took up a good 2ft of pole so I had to go up a bit more. Considering my roof is a good 14ft up, I'm now at about 24ft. I'm actually going to take pictures and post them on flickr in a day or so.

Thanks for that link, I'll let my brother in law know.
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post #2049 of 3464 Old 01-04-2009, 04:40 PM
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So are you saying signal strength is absolute value, such as receiving a stations at -45 dbu. Where signal quality is the unlabeled meter such as we see on our sat and OTA receivers? That would make sense. The meter on a sat or OTA receiver we see on the screen has no value put to it, just zero to 100 and some I have seen are just a bar and you guess the percent.

well it's like saying you can be pretty darn sure if you KNOW the length of cable, it's attenuation properties/impedance how many splits etc that you will start with a certain level and you can guess how much it'll drop.

Consider that I can pull WCJB at 100%... what I do with it once it's down the pole, that's "signal strength". Even if WCJB ups their power, my signal strength will not change.
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post #2050 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 03:51 AM
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well it's like saying you can be pretty darn sure if you KNOW the length of cable, it's attenuation properties/impedance how many splits etc that you will start with a certain level and you can guess how much it'll drop.

Consider that I can pull WCJB at 100%... what I do with it once it's down the pole, that's "signal strength". Even if WCJB ups their power, my signal strength will not change.

That would be relative to a meter. To me if the transmitter doubles their power then the signal strength would go up by 3db. But if the meter you are using is already full scale, then the increase can not be seen I totally agree.

For my whole life "signal strength" has always been defined against something. Probably the most scientific or engineering term is dbu, or dbm, which can be referenced to a specific value of rms volts or millwatts into a load respectively.

But then in ham radio there is a system of 2 digit number to give another station some idea of how they are received. The first digit is one to five with five the best of just how they subjectively sound compared to background noise and static (analog transmissions). The second number is one to nine on their RF carrier strength. So giving someone a "59" or 5 by 9" report means they quality is 5 and signal is 9 or as good as it gets.

The military uses the same system except the numbers only go to 5. So in the military if you are "5 by 5" that is perfect. But neither the ham or military are quantitative, just relative and somewhat subjective.

Now we have this bar on our screens telling us signal strength. But no manufacturer I have seen yet says well 100% means say at least -30dbu. However I have noticed between receivers while they won't match exactly there seems to be a standard of some sort as most people find that around 40 to 50 % they can have break ups and pixelization in the slightest fade.

This tells me most of our receivers are set so in very very general terms, one needs 50% or higher to grab a signal with little to no drops. It seems to take 80% to eliminate all but the very very worst fades or pixelization. Above 90 it never seems to happen.

So there must be some relative standard for our bars for signal strength.

Now the way I learned Signal Quality, with digital it's moot. It's either perfect or it doesn't exist. So like digital we could assign zero and 1 to signal quality the way I learned it :@).

Funny how terminology changes from one situation to another. People talk in acronyms, phrases and I am very guilty of it, yet unless the reader is spot on to the exact field, they are lost.

So we could come up with the Gainesville OTA standard :@)

0 - Visit the forum or get cable
10 to 40 - push the antenna higher, make it longer, stack 2 antennas
50 - Better than I had it but the darn fades. Work on the antenna
60 - I could live with this if it were not for airplane skip
70 - A no man's land between near perfect and those darn pixels
80 - Real DTV!
90 - Makes others jealous
100 - What do you expect? He is running an amp!

Of course like anything this is a living document. So any attempts at perfecting the humor are allowed!

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post #2051 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 05:48 AM
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For my whole life "signal strength" has always been defined against something. Probably the most scientific or engineering term is dbu, or dbm, which can be referenced to a specific value of rms volts or millwatts into a load respectively.


So we could come up with the Gainesville OTA standard :@)

0 - Visit the forum or get cable
10 to 40 - push the antenna higher, make it longer, stack 2 antennas
50 - Better than I had it but the darn fades. Work on the antenna
60 - I could live with this if it were not for airplane skip
70 - A no man's land between near perfect and those darn pixels
80 - Real DTV!
90 - Makes others jealous
100 - What do you expect? He is running an amp!

Of course like anything this is a living document. So any attempts at perfecting the humor are allowed!

Yeah, when I got into FTA, I was really confused by this system as well... it was unlike anything I had seen in cable land.

My quality level of 60 is riddled with screen freezes and macroblocking every few minutes. It's not completely unwatchable, but it drives my wife nuts.
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post #2052 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 07:12 AM
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Yeah, when I got into FTA, I was really confused by this system as well... it was unlike anything I had seen in cable land.

My quality level of 60 is riddled with screen freezes and macroblocking every few minutes. It's not completely unwatchable, but it drives my wife nuts.

What do you have in the 60's? I saw you UHF and it's higher than than, and you said on the AntennaCraft WNBW was 83%??

Or are you talking about a FTA satellite? Something I have never played with, probably because there are not channels there I want, well ones I know about.

I know PBS stations are locally sponsored and C-SPAN is paid by cable bills. But to me those two networks should be FTA. Or maybe very cheap on a yearly basis. I don't know what C-SPAN gets out of the average cable bill, but I bet its about $10 a year. Considering every single cable, satellite viewer is paying it, that would add up to enough to run a network. PBS could go to the station in your DMA, something like $25 a year, as most PBS viewers don't contribute but find another channel 2 weeks a year to watch.

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post #2053 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 07:40 AM
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What do you have in the 60's? I saw you UHF and it's higher than than, and you said on the AntennaCraft WNBW was 83%??

Or are you talking about a FTA satellite? Something I have never played with, probably because there are not channels there I want, well ones I know about.

I know PBS stations are locally sponsored and C-SPAN is paid by cable bills. But to me those two networks should be FTA. Or maybe very cheap on a yearly basis. I don't know what C-SPAN gets out of the average cable bill, but I bet its about $10 a year. Considering every single cable, satellite viewer is paying it, that would add up to enough to run a network. PBS could go to the station in your DMA, something like $25 a year, as most PBS viewers don't contribute but find another channel 2 weeks a year to watch.

Before I had the VHF antenna, WNBW was peaking at 60%. We were watching the Today Show on New Year's day and it was quite watchable but would freeze up at times.

The whole FTA thing for me was more about just getting it to work. Free dishnet dish500+ a 30 dollar receiver and I can pull an NBC feed from Kansas, a ton of off the wall channels from all over the place. most of the affiliates... etc) It's just a bunch of toys really.... The antenna feeds are better but this is like just hacking around.
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post #2054 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 08:57 AM
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Before I had the VHF antenna, WNBW was peaking at 60%. We were watching the Today Show on New Year's day and it was quite watchable but would freeze up at times.

The whole FTA thing for me was more about just getting it to work. Free dishnet dish500+ a 30 dollar receiver and I can pull an NBC feed from Kansas, a ton of off the wall channels from all over the place. most of the affiliates... etc) It's just a bunch of toys really.... The antenna feeds are better but this is like just hacking around.

yeah, I understand hacking and messing around. Will it work with old DirecTV dishes? I have a few of them, but no spare Dish Network dishes. Seems it should. I think most of the IF's of that stuff is the same. I know you can take a old old dish network single bird dish and use it on DirecTV on a single bird. I set up a friend to do that. He bought DirecTV for his semi truck. But he had Dish Network at home (this is way back when Dish had one bird). The dishes looked the same to us. So we took his DirecTV receiver out of the truck (which he liked better) and took it inside, and moved his Dish Network dish in his yard to the DirecTV bird. Bingo. We called and canceled his Dish then and there. He didn't need both as his wife rode with him. So when home, he just brought the receiver inside with was hooked to a Dish Network dish. Hence I think most of the Ku dishes are the same IF. Or close enough to tune.

I have a spare pole in the yard with an obsolete HughesNet on it (they suck big time). I could take that dish off, make a diameter reducer by just putting another pole inside it and filling it with some thing like cement. It already has coax to it also.

The one time I thought about FTA was NASA, which I think is still FTA. But now it's on everything. It might be fun. I know back in the day we used to uplink Gator Football games on Ku. There were a few guys in town that watched them. Having a KU dish back then was rare, but the hard core Gator fans had them. Depending how far away we were sometimes we would just lay them tape and physically drive them back to the Mill Hopper studio. Sometime though we are way out of town and we could Ku them back to the studio for showing later. So they knew who we used for our uplink contractor and of course when the game was real time. They would just point at that bird and bingo, they watched the blacked out game. We didn't bother to scramble then, as almost no one was on Ku with a receiver. A lot of the receiver back then had such high noise floors it took a 1 meter dish, which is a pain in the pita to aim at a Ku bird. BTW, we used the same uplink company where the Famous Captain Midnight that blocked HBO worked. The guy they normally sent knew Captain Midnight from working there. It was always a joke between us. I would say he, the Captain is here! Can we put Gator Football on HBO? Of course we were kidding! But we always got a laugh. He had a KW in his sat truck so he could penetrate clouds etc if he needed.

It was a big heavy truck, as it was converted from C Band. There are still a lot of those trucks around. They save them to do Hurricane stuff for the networks and Weather Channel. The big heavy trucks don't get blown around as hard. Have the room and generator for a lot of Ku uplink power. As far as I know there are still a handful that run to the coasts every hurricane season.

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post #2055 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 09:34 AM
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yeah, I understand hacking and messing around. Will it work with old DirecTV dishes? I have a few of them, but no spare Dish Network dishes. Seems it should. I think most of the IF's of that stuff is the same. I know you can take a old old dish network single bird dish and use it on DirecTV on a single bird. I set up a friend to do that. He bought DirecTV for his semi truck. But he had Dish Network at home (this is way back when Dish had one bird). The dishes looked the same to us. So we took his DirecTV receiver out of the truck (which he liked better) and took it inside, and moved his Dish Network dish in his yard to the DirecTV bird. Bingo. We called and canceled his Dish then and there. He didn't need both as his wife rode with him. So when home, he just brought the receiver inside with was hooked to a Dish Network dish. Hence I think most of the Ku dishes are the same IF. Or close enough to tune.

I have a spare pole in the yard with an obsolete HughesNet on it (they suck big time). I could take that dish off, make a diameter reducer by just putting another pole inside it and filling it with some thing like cement. It already has coax to it also.

Yeah, the direct dish might work. All the newer dishnet stuff is oblong to facilitate their two satellites. (110 and 119 - their two HD birds are 61.5 and 129) but the real FTA people are usually pointing at one bird at a time (unless they have some other purpose which I won't discuss). NASA is still FTA and does have some interesting stuff.

I'd LOVE to find a gator game uplink (don't think I don't look for em) luckily this season, we've done well enough to be carried on the major networks. Now that I don't have cable, it would make my family very happy.
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post #2056 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 10:18 AM
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Yeah, the direct dish might work. All the newer dishnet stuff is oblong to facilitate their two satellites. (110 and 119 - their two HD birds are 61.5 and 129) but the real FTA people are usually pointing at one bird at a time (unless they have some other purpose which I won't discuss). NASA is still FTA and does have some interesting stuff.

I'd LOVE to find a gator game uplink (don't think I don't look for em) luckily this season, we've done well enough to be carried on the major networks. Now that I don't have cable, it would make my family very happy.

I actually have a 3 satellite DirecTV and an round one. Being in the Orlando DMA, I only need a round dish for locals and I don't pay for HD. HD is not expensive but no 2 year contracts and then have to ship back their receiver? Let me say it nicely, screw them. I bought my own receivers so far back they were $300. Not 6 month later everything was free. They never offered me any free upgrades, just increased bills.

I noticed this year (I don't watch Gator Football or any foot ball for that matter) that Gator Football is not done locally anymore. Probably because no one local has good enough cameras or a good enough truck. I bet it's scrambled on uplink. I am so far out of the loop on that now I have no idea. With the money in national feeds, I would say most likely scrambled.

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post #2057 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 01:28 PM
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I actually have a 3 satellite DirecTV and an round one. Being in the Orlando DMA, I only need a round dish for locals and I don't pay for HD. HD is not expensive but no 2 year contracts and then have to ship back their receiver? Let me say it nicely, screw them. I bought my own receivers so far back they were $300. Not 6 month later everything was free. They never offered me any free upgrades, just increased bills.

Well that's the general trend of "customer care" these days right? I mean, tell a bank.. or a cellphone company that you've been a loyal customer for 8 years.... they'll flat out tell you that your loyalty means squat. The language I typically use is "so i really have to go to another company to get a deal?" On rare occasion, they care.

An interesting thing about dish network literature is the claim that you need an MPEG-4 capable dish.... it reminded me of the current sales gimmick of "HDTV" antenna.
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post #2058 of 3464 Old 01-05-2009, 04:08 PM
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Well that's the general trend of "customer care" these days right? I mean, tell a bank.. or a cellphone company that you've been a loyal customer for 8 years.... they'll flat out tell you that your loyalty means squat. The language I typically use is "so i really have to go to another company to get a deal?" On rare occasion, they care.

An interesting thing about dish network literature is the claim that you need an MPEG-4 capable dish.... it reminded me of the current sales gimmick of "HDTV" antenna.

Yeah, part of are the massive mergers, which are flat out wrong for me and you, but I prefer to talk politics on a political blog. They have actually told me it didn't mean anything I was a 10 year customer. My neighbor told them ok, turn it off. They gave her a free HD-DVR and HD Rec, install but with a 2 year contract. Right now with the economy, contracts are not in my economic plan. 2009 is going to suck. This is the first year at the first of the year I don't have a solution to make it through the year. It's sleep looser and a little scary.

I thought they were doing MPEG-4 on some HD channels? I think what they mean is all the ones they say are MPEG-4 are on KA band, so you need a new dish for the new receivers. It's about a zillion times better than our cable here. It's my smallest bill so it's not really the first thing I need to turn off if it gets worse, still no contracts. I wish I had in side the house cell service but it doesn't exist here. Alltel almost put up a tower here to get Marion county contract. Turns out their coverage was the best and the best price so they didn't put up an Orange Springs cell. However ironically the tower company they were going to contract with did put up the tower. Sooner or later someone will rent it, then I can go to naked DSL and drop my home phone.

I am glad I invested in my OTA antenna system, all else fails if I have electricity I have TV!

One would think with a back ground in 2way, broadcasting and networking, jobs would not be hard to find. But I have no degree in those fields and at 55 they too all but laugh at me.

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post #2059 of 3464 Old 01-06-2009, 11:15 AM
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I thought they were doing MPEG-4 on some HD channels? I think what they mean is all the ones they say are MPEG-4 are on KA band, so you need a new dish for the new receivers. It's about a zillion times better than our cable here. It's my smallest bill so it's not really the first thing I need to turn off if it gets worse, still no contracts. I wish I had in side the house cell service but it doesn't exist here. Alltel almost put up a tower here to get Marion county contract. Turns out their coverage was the best and the best price so they didn't put up an Orange Springs cell. However ironically the tower company they were going to contract with did put up the tower. Sooner or later someone will rent it, then I can go to naked DSL and drop my home phone.

I am glad I invested in my OTA antenna system, all else fails if I have electricity I have TV!

One would think with a back ground in 2way, broadcasting and networking, jobs would not be hard to find. But I have no degree in those fields and at 55 they too all but laugh at me.

Dish moved all their transponders to MPEG-4 this year so new receivers are a must.... but the old Dish 1000.2 reflectors should still do just fine. (I'm not sure if the LNBs need to be switched out or not)

I'd actually like to see OTA move away from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 as it is a better use of the bandwidth. (I'd also be able to fit more video on my TiVo)

I dropped the phone company totally to switch to Cox's digital phone service. I still can't get overly excited about any cell provider.

With your knowledge, you ought to be in consulting.
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post #2060 of 3464 Old 01-07-2009, 02:59 PM
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Message 2 Piggie,I Don't know if U remember my situation here in Williston but here's a weird one 4 ya.I currently get WNBW with my roof antenna pointing west this makes it close to impossible to get CBS or fox 51 at that angle.The other day I tried using my older antenna Distant antenna 50 mile range down below at eye level to try to get WNBW on my piece of crap Maggetbox Wal-Mart $40.00 converter box & as soon as I did this pointing it in the same direction as roof antenna not only am I able to get WNBW quite well but also I get the CBS 28.1 signal in a box whose tuner is the worst I have ever seen & with a rg51 cable unamplified!Both my HDTV signal (computer HDTV wonder) and the digital stream converter box connected to the roof antenna pointing in exactly same direction cannot recieve sufficient enough signal with an amplifier added thus confusing the hell outa me.Any guesses as to what's happening here?
Thanx for any technical expertise from all here.
Brian
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post #2061 of 3464 Old 01-07-2009, 06:40 PM
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Message 2 Piggie,I Don't know if U remember my situation here in Williston but here's a weird one 4 ya.I currently get WNBW with my roof antenna pointing west this makes it close to impossible to get CBS or fox 51 at that angle.The other day I tried using my older antenna Distant antenna 50 mile range down below at eye level to try to get WNBW on my piece of crap Maggetbox Wal-Mart $40.00 converter box & as soon as I did this pointing it in the same direction as roof antenna not only am I able to get WNBW quite well but also I get the CBS 28.1 signal in a box whose tuner is the worst I have ever seen & with a rg51 cable unamplified!Both my HDTV signal (computer HDTV wonder) and the digital stream converter box connected to the roof antenna pointing in exactly same direction cannot receive sufficient enough signal with an amplifier added thus confusing the hell outa me.Any guesses as to what's happening here?
Thanx for any technical expertise from all here.
Brian

Isn't your roof top antenna a Square Shooter? I forgot. I notes on where people live and just (dah) added antenna to the list.

What is the old antenna?

Another thing odd is 28 and 9 are NNW of you, not west. Think of pointing at Newberry where they have their tower.

You are only 9 miles from WOGX and WCJB though they are ESE of you. But they probably come in fine off the back side of the antenna. Pointing west, they are off the back of the antenna which should make it worse.

Also inputting your zip code to tvfool.com says that WUFT, WOGX and WCJB are all 55 NM db or better. Once you get much above 50 on any channel, it gets hard to run an amp.

So maybe the amp is hurting your reception.

So what are your antennas again please and what kind of amp?

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post #2062 of 3464 Old 01-07-2009, 08:56 PM
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I just noticed today that Cox put back up about 4 test channels in the 980's again. Does anyone know what channels they might be releasing? And when?

I also saw on my monthly bill that they are going to be carrying the new NBC affiliate starting Jan. 16th and it will be on Channel 9. They will be moving TBS from that location to Channel 67, and taking CST from Channel 67 and putting it in Channel 259 in the Sports and Information Tier.
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post #2063 of 3464 Old 01-08-2009, 07:12 AM
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I just noticed today that Cox put back up about 4 test channels in the 980's again. Does anyone know what channels they might be releasing? And when?

I also saw on my monthly bill that they are going to be carrying the new NBC affiliate starting Jan. 16th and it will be on Channel 9. They will be moving TBS from that location to Channel 67, and taking CST from Channel 67 and putting it in Channel 259 in the Sports and Information Tier.

Sorta the end of an era. I was on COX briefly back in the 1970's and TBS was on the bottom and only tier back then as well an TNT. No other cable channels have ever had as long a run and on as many bottom tiers as Turner's old channels.

Well according to the grapevine and it probably is official by now both WESH and WNBW will be on the lowest tier.

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post #2064 of 3464 Old 01-08-2009, 03:58 PM
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Hey Piggie thanx 4 the reply,
Here's the outside antenna model & amplifier model both Radio Shack specials (been going there since I was a kid) http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103087
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103094
I tried every turn in the possible NEWS rotation but this West angle it seems is what my antenna likes for WNBW.I am thinking it might b partly due to the trees on my exact eastern side less than 5 feet away!The older antenna BTW is mounted at eyesite on a short pole on the floor inside a brick building.
Brian
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post #2065 of 3464 Old 01-08-2009, 04:43 PM
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Hey Piggie thanx 4 the reply,
Here's the outside antenna model & amplifier model both Radio Shack specials (been going there since I was a kid) http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103087
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103094
I tried every turn in the possible NEWS rotation but this West angle it seems is what my antenna likes for WNBW.I am thinking it might b partly due to the trees on my exact eastern side less than 5 feet away!The older antenna BTW is mounted at eyesite on a short pole on the floor inside a brick building.
Brian

160" Long Dual Boom, 57-Element Antenna is a very directional antenna having probably about a 30 degree beam width. It's also more gain than you should need.

If west is the best signal then either you are compenating for overload into your amp (sorry that amp overloads easy) or mulitpath where the reflected wave is strong enough to watch.

My guess is if you are within a mile or two of Williston you are too close to WNBW and WGFL and overloading the amp. You can't just unplug the power supply, you have to go up and bypass the amp by moving the coax, but it would be interesting.

If the trees are pine trees it's worse on UHF. Back in the 70's we did a test from Hawthorne. We put up a pole with a big tv antenna like you have.
We could not get above the pine trees. We still had some snow on Channel 20, then broadcasting from the Devils Millhopper Studio.

We took the antenna down to 5 feet and had a better signal. Then we took an old swing set, laid it over on it's top. So it was a big open vee pointing at Gainesville. We propped up the top off the ground so Vee wasn't pointed at high in the sky. Covered it with chicken wire and pointed the antenna into it. Dead clear reception. Cable companies have done it for year. But we did it for an engineering class.

It's probably not still there. But in Alaucha there was a set up similiar. They put up 2 sections of tower across about 100 ft in a curve pointing at Orlando. Then then put their Channel 2, 6 and 9 antennas about 8 ft high looking back into the screen. It was basically a huge VHF dish antenna using a regular antenna for a feed horn.

Back to your problem. If you old antenna into your worse receiver with no amp in the first floor inside a building is working better, you have your amp in over load and too much antenna.

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post #2066 of 3464 Old 01-10-2009, 11:11 AM
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I have a new channel showing up on QAM, at 110.1. At 2:00 on Saturday afternoon it's showing an infomercial. Is this WNBW? I'm in NE Gainesville and only possess indoor amplified antennas which can't get a lock on 9.1 whatsoever.

Also, is it safe to assume the analog cable version of WNBW will be the cropped digital feed that they use for WESH? It drives me insane that they do that.

Edit: It's showing the current NBC program, so I'll go ahead and mark it as WNBW, on Cox QAM at 110.1. Averaging 16 or so Mbps. That's better than the 13 or so being put out on the WESH feed.
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post #2067 of 3464 Old 01-10-2009, 07:14 PM
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Test4 channel 982 is WNBW-HD. I dont receive the other 3. any word on them? come on espnews!
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post #2068 of 3464 Old 01-10-2009, 09:10 PM
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Whatever antenna Cox is using to pick up 9.1 is not powerful enough, as there are tons of dropouts and pixeling tonight during SNL. Though, when it IS working, it looks damn good (high bitrate video tends to...)

http://entertainmentweakly.com/snl.jpeg
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post #2069 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 06:52 AM
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What you are seeing is probably a result of interference from WFTV mixing in and causing WNBW to drop out, it should resolve itself in a couple more weeks when analog 9 from bithlo/orlando shutsdown. In situations like this the only way to prevent this from happening at night is for the cable headend to move their rx antenna to a lower elavation on their tower, in extreme cases the only thing that works is to put a wall behind or to the side of the directional array to block co channel interference from adjacent markets............

Hey Satpro. I am on the far outer range of WNBW in Orange Springs, FL actually in your DMA (barely, far NE Marion County) by about 3 to 4 miles. WESH comes in but drops a lot. Some days fine others terrible.

WNBW here should be a fairly stable signal, but it varies by 10 points with drops of 25. I figured it is WFTV 9.0 from Bithlo. I tried going higher and things got worse on WNBW. I was at barely 20 ft, and raised my 1713 Winegard to 33 ft. Things got worse. More dropouts and not anymore peak signal. I wish I could get WESH, as I like their program schedule better, but I am pretty sure after Feb 17, WNBW will be much steadier here.

Take care down in the land of the Dizzy Rats! Piggie :@)

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post #2070 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 07:23 AM
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is WNBW (NBC) fine for everyone this morning?

location: west of I-75 on Tower Rd. (75th st.) between Newberry Rd. and Archer Rd.
antenna: Philips MANT-410 Amplified Indoor Antenna

I just got a new TV with what I hoped was an improved tuner, and while I'm getting better numbers on FOX, PBS, CBS, and ABC, I cant get any semblance of a signal from WNBW. No detection, no signal strength.

Trying 9-1 with various levels of VHF gain, but no love.
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