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post #2071 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 07:33 AM
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It's not dropping out on Cox like it was last night, I'll say that much. But I can't find a signal for it anywhere OTA.

It's showing SD content right now, but still coming through the pipe at 16+ Mbps. Really impressed given how overcompressed the other networks clear on QAM are.
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post #2072 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 08:28 AM
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TEST, TEST2, and TEST4 all working!
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post #2073 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 08:32 AM
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TEST looks to be some sort of PBSHD
TEST2 looks to be STYLE-HD.
TEST3 Unknown
TEST4 WNBW-HD
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post #2074 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbaprog View Post

It's not dropping out on Cox like it was last night, I'll say that much. But I can't find a signal for it anywhere OTA.

It's showing SD content right now, but still coming through the pipe at 16+ Mbps. Really impressed given how overcompressed the other networks clear on QAM are.

Unless they set up a direct feed with COX, like we used to do when I worked at WCJB, they are stuck receiving the same OTA signal as everyone else, then having to reprocess it for QAM. We had a piece of RG6 running over to COX back then with the gain turned up wide open on our end, sending them baseband out of our Master Control Switcher (same thing the transmitter was feed). But now with digital I have no idea what they do. The lower analog is probably still feed baseband but the HD version is probably OTA.

Now since WCGL and most likely WCJB are feed to COX OTA, then they would have to drop MY and CW networks so they could run uncompressed. Then I am not too sure why WOGX decided to run the same programming on HD and SD, but again compressed.

Trip is putting up on his site, the data I collected on Gainesville locals:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=198

Then click a call sign, such as "WNBW"

Then click "Technical Data and Screencaps"

Then click "TSReader Output"

And you will see the data I collected for him for Gainesville stations.

You can see all the compression, frame rate, etc etc etc ..

Some of the stuff I don't understand. For example you can add up the bit streams for a channel and they are more than a channel can carry. Unless they have some kind of way of using bandwidth on one program when another program isn't using it. DTV is a new game and I far from know it all.

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post #2075 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbaprog View Post

I'm in NE Gainesville and only possess indoor amplified antennas which can't get a lock on 9.1 whatsoever.

I doubt indoor antennas will ever work for WNBW in NE Gainesville. NoBleach tried one near the corner of 34th and 39th NW (rabbit ears which should be ok for VHF) and no signal. He put up a 6 element beam at 30 ft and only gets 83%. I am out in Orange Springs with a YA 1713 and only get 40 to 48 on the signal, just barely a lock (WFTV is still on the air interfering).

There are not enough signal reports yet but it's starting to look like you need a attic or rooftop antenna for WNBW in Gainesville itself. One report of a Silver Sensor (UHF indoor) working but that person I believe just lives in a hot spot.

Once WFTV goes off the air, we will have a better idea. But since WFTV is so far from here, I am guessing it's not bothering indoor antennas. Hence the reports on indoor antennas I do not expect to improve after Feb 17th. Outdoor antennas should all improve a little.

I am just guessing, but if WNBW is dropping on cable, COX must have an antenna at it's Millhopper head end? just a guess. Anyway even they are dropping signal. The whole use of channel 9, then mapped to 9 could not have a been a worst choice. And don't blame the current staff and owners of WNBW. They bought it with those licenses already in play to use Channel 9. I am not sure why they mapped to 9.1, which I thought they could have used 29.1 but I don't know the details for that on the FCC rules.

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post #2076 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

Then I am not too sure why WOGX decided to run the same programming on HD and SD, but again compressed.

Not so. Fox's splicer ensures that the HD on the local affiliate looks the same by compressing anything in the stream that's not HD. The Fox feed already assumes there's a subchannel, so while I'm not sure why WOGX-DT has Fox-SD on its sub and not some type of alternate programming, no bandwidth is actually taken from the HD to make it happen.

Quote:


Some of the stuff I don't understand. For example you can add up the bit streams for a channel and they are more than a channel can carry. Unless they have some kind of way of using bandwidth on one program when another program isn't using it. DTV is a new game and I far from know it all.

You could have asked.

Are you referring to the numbers under the PMT, like in WUFT-DT the SD ones say 15 and the HD one say 19.39? I think those numbers are the bitrates as the feeds come into the encoder. The green lines all the way at the bottom are the bitrates that are going over the air.

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post #2077 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

The whole use of channel 9, then mapped to 9 could not have a been a worst choice. And don't blame the current staff and owners of WNBW. They bought it with those licenses already in play to use Channel 9. I am not sure why they mapped to 9.1, which I thought they could have used 29.1 but I don't know the details for that on the FCC rules.

29-1 or 39-1, either would have been acceptable as far as FCC rules are concerned.

- Trip

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post #2078 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKong954 View Post

is WNBW (NBC) fine for everyone this morning?

location: west of I-75 on Tower Rd. (75th st.) between Newberry Rd. and Archer Rd.
antenna: Philips MANT-410 Amplified Indoor Antenna

I just got a new TV with what I hoped was an improved tuner, and while I'm getting better numbers on FOX, PBS, CBS, and ABC, I cant get any semblance of a signal from WNBW. No detection, no signal strength.

Trying 9-1 with various levels of VHF gain, but no love.

KingKong, you should stand a chance of receiving WNBW on amplified rabbit ears. Tower Road puts you a little closer.

Try doing 2 things. One is if your receiver has an add a channel do that instead of just punching in 9.1 on the tuner.

If that doesn't work, do a total rescan of everything. Both of my receivers required a total rescan to pick up WNBW.

Also look at WUFT 5.0 analog while you still can. See if you see any electrical interference. A little isn't bad, but a lot will block out digital and if it's on 5.0 it's probably all over VHF.

Also try putting the rabbit ears out flat and measuring each so they extend about 15 inches and again flat if they allow that. I have only seen pictures with of it with the rabbit ears pointing up. TV both analog and digital is transmitted horizontal, so putting rabbit ears up and not down often makes things worse. But most likely indoors you have multiple reflections, so if flat doesn't work, try other positions.

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post #2079 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Not so. Fox's splicer ensures that the HD on the local affiliate looks the same by compressing anything in the stream that's not HD. The Fox feed already assumes there's a subchannel, so while I'm not sure why WOGX-DT has Fox-SD on its sub and not some type of alternate programming, no bandwidth is actually taken from the HD to make it happen.



You could have asked.

Are you referring to the numbers under the PMT, like in WUFT-DT the SD ones say 15 and the HD one say 19.39? I think those numbers are the bitrates as the feeds come into the encoder. The green lines all the way at the bottom are the bitrates that are going over the air.

- Trip

Thanks as always Trip! Ok, so it is possible to "steal" from one program to another while Program 1 is not needing bandwidth? Like a still picture doesn't require much if any updated data. Only to serve people changing to that channel.

There is a PBS in Jacksonville that has 6 subchannels. 7.6 is mostly stills of up coming community events.

Yes I meant those numbers. Exactly. Ok, I will look at the greenies :@)

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post #2080 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

29-1 or 39-1, either would have been acceptable as far as FCC rules are concerned.

- Trip

How so 39-1 ???? I thought they could only map to a channel they had grandfathered on analog???? which though construction never occurred they were licensed for 29.0 but never used it.

Ok already! I am asking :@)

Something else I noticed is WNBW is showing MPEG2 for audio and I did that capture watching it on the TV that won't receive MAPEG2, only AC3.

I need to plug in my receiver again and do another capture.

Plus I stacked my YA 1713's at 63 inches, same feed for both antlers and up another 10 ft in the sky.

It got worse, a bunch worse. I don't know it going up another 10 ft pulled in more WFTV or my pattern sucks eggs from stacking. Antenna are sooo sooo hard to predict unless they are up a hundred feet alone on a tower with nothing around them.

I will probably go back to a single antenna and hope my numbers go up even 5 percent when WFTV goes QRT. It can't happen too soon at this point!

Edit: Dah on me. 39-1 would have been as bad as 9-1 as WFTV is 39-1 mapped to 9-1. The mapping co-channel is as bad as the real co-channel in North Marion Country (Ocala). And it gets worse south, even though we all know Marion is in the Orlando DMA. I have starting to think DMA stands for something else! :@)

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post #2081 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 10:39 AM
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MPEG-2 audio? Really? I'm getting stereo AC3 here. Is Cox re-encoding the audio?

http://entertainmentweakly.com/WNBW-1.jpg
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post #2082 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbaprog View Post

MPEG-2 audio? Really? I'm getting stereo AC3 here. Is Cox re-encoding the audio?

http://entertainmentweakly.com/WNBW-1.jpg

That is why I a said or think I said I need to do a new capture. There were experimenting with their OTA encoder and sometimes they would flip to MPEG2 by accident. They didn't get the dolby 5.1 encoder from NBC last time I talked. The chief was trying to get the encoder he had to do 5.1 how it ended up on MPEG2 and that must have been when I did the capture.

I had done captures all all all day long to get one that wasn't full of errors I am so far out. By the time I finally had one nearly error free I didn't bother to look that the audio was MPEG2 when I did the capture and emailed it to Trip.

I am bad.......................... Blame my, my wife always does!

How else do you think I got the name Pig...... :@)

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post #2083 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

How so 39-1 ???? I thought they could only map to a channel they had grandfathered on analog???? which though construction never occurred they were licensed for 29.0 but never used it.

Ok already! I am asking :@)

Edit: Dah on me. 39-1 would have been as bad as 9-1 as WFTV is 39-1 mapped to 9-1. The mapping co-channel is as bad as the real co-channel in North Marion Country (Ocala). And it gets worse south, even though we all know Marion is in the Orlando DMA. I have starting to think DMA stands for something else! :@)

The ATSC spec says that if a new station overlaps with another using its physical channel (in this case, WFTV-DT 39 overlaps as 9-1) for mapping, it should map to the physical channel of the other station, in this case, 39-1. Given that the station actually had an analog channel assigned to it (29-1), that would be the preferred place to map, but 39-1 also fits with the spec.

Also, keep an eye on the HDTV Tech forum and on the Harrisonburg/Charlottesville thread... I'm about to post about the antenna I just built for upper-VHF.

- Trip

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post #2084 of 3464 Old 01-11-2009, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

The ATSC spec says that if a new station overlaps with another using its physical channel (in this case, WFTV-DT 39 overlaps as 9-1) for mapping, it should map to the physical channel of the other station, in this case, 39-1. Given that the station actually had an analog channel assigned to it (29-1), that would be the preferred place to map, but 39-1 also fits with the spec.

Also, keep an eye on the HDTV Tech forum and on the Harrisonburg/Charlottesville thread... I'm about to post about the antenna I just built for upper-VHF.

- Trip

Ok, well the 39.1 is probably not so bad. I keep going back to calling mapping co-channel. I would be if the signal levels were very close. But if one is much stronger once the tuner says this maps to that, then it's done. Now that my receivers think mapping 9.1 is actual 9.1, I am not longer bothered by WFTV's 39.1 mapped to 9.1

The antenna is cool. I feel dumb for not thinking of that. If you go way way way back into the 1940s to early 1970's, you will see people on 2 meters using bowties. The Yagi wasn't popular with hams until the 1970's for VHF and UHF, though they were used a little earlier by a few. Why? Well the computers back then had no memory, only printed out real time, had no monitors. LOL (typewriters).

But it laborious to build a yagi. Even fewer people had any test gear. Mostly an oscillator and a receiver to figure out the pattern. Even when I first played on 2 meters, building a 2 meter yagi (late 70's) was all chance. Pruning, changing spacing, it was a pain.

HF Yagi were less critical. Plus few built more than a 3 element and 3 element reduces screw ups and tuning for a pattern by a huge factor over some of the monster moon bounce yagi's of today (12 meter booms).

I am sure you could put a reflector on it made with anything even as big as chicken wire. Or that same fence stuff Cushcraft used to use on the 4221 and 4228. It would look solid to VHF.

Did the guy that came up with it have a reflector? One could guess by measuring a CM4221 or equv. and extrapolate the distance for VHF.

I am thinking there are a lot of people not having any luck in Gainesburger with WNBW and some might find your antenna with a reflector very usable.

In theory and it should work, one could scale up the home made 4221 for VHF.

Anyway, too cool. you win the pig prize!

I started experimenting on stacking my antennas.

I started with the CM4221. I have 2. I have one stacked right above the other and it only shows minimal gain over a single one.

I am thinking of trying this next as there is an analog repeater on 29 in Ocala (W29AB) that I would like to get. By separating them horizontally a fixed distance then either running them in or out of phase with each other to change the lobes. Heck if it doesn't work, I will just go back to a single 4221.

The interesting thing is you can space them horizontally about 20 some inches, center to center and run them out of phase. You end up with two main lobes about 50 degrees apart. And you don't suffer a 3db loss. The loss ends up under .5 db, depending on how well it's tuned and length of the jumpers.

Anyway. I have a funny story for later once I get to tuning my ya1713's.

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post #2085 of 3464 Old 01-12-2009, 07:43 AM
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While it wasn't the whisker design but used dipoles in front of a screen, phased arrays where more common than logs or yagis for VHF way back.

Here is a link to a picture of the type of radar antenna that was ignored at Pearl Harbor

http://www.infoage.org/full1scr.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...270-set-up.jpg

Now if I have the historical frequency right of about 106 MHz, that would make one awesome FM DX antenna!

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post #2086 of 3464 Old 01-12-2009, 07:46 AM
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That might be a bit big for my room.

- Trip

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post #2087 of 3464 Old 01-12-2009, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

That might be a bit big for my room.

- Trip

The beauty of phased arrays, just add as many as you can in the space you have. Put one on each wall and say it's art.... You would then have 4 directions covered.

On a serious note. Where did Falcon post the antenna you built. I found a chart he made for whisker lengths. Did you just build from that? What is fence wire? And did his original have a reflector? Are you going to try adding a reflector?

As my wife says, Pig, you have too many questions.... :@)

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post #2088 of 3464 Old 01-12-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

The beauty of phased arrays, just add as many as you can in the space you have. Put one on each wall and say it's art.... You would then have 4 directions covered.

Not sure what my roommate would say about that.

Quote:


On a serious note. Where did Falcon post the antenna you built. I found a chart he made for whisker lengths. Did you just build from that? What is fence wire? And did his original have a reflector? Are you going to try adding a reflector?

As my wife says, Pig, you have too many questions.... :@)

Nah, questions are good! Without questions, how would anyone learn anything?

No reflector on his design. I'm not 100% certain what kind of wire it is, but it's rigid and was used in the garden in combination with some kind of cloth to create a semi-shaded environment for the lettuce. Imagine it in a semi-circle, covering the row. It's similar to the wire I see used in some fences, which is why I mentioned it. There's probably a proper name for the stuff that I'm not aware of.

I swiped this pic from this post: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13789319

- Trip

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post #2089 of 3464 Old 01-12-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Not sure what my roommate would say about that.



Nah, questions are good! Without questions, how would anyone learn anything?

No reflector on his design. I'm not 100% certain what kind of wire it is, but it's rigid and was used in the garden in combination with some kind of cloth to create a semi-shaded environment for the lettuce. Imagine it in a semi-circle, covering the row. It's similar to the wire I see used in some fences, which is why I mentioned it. There's probably a proper name for the stuff that I'm not aware of.

I swiped this pic from this post: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13789319

- Trip

I like the guy that built the yagi out of either AntennaCraft or part of an old Winegard. Not sure how I missed that thread! It was labeled about as plain as it could be! But nice to find yet another thread to read, troll and comment.

Too bad the YA-1713, doesn't come apart closer to the driven element. Otherwise you could buy two of them and extend the directors a lot. The way it is now you can do that, but it only adds a few directors. But it will work if you set the distance right, as all the directors are the same length and spacing for channel 13 according to hdtvprimer.com. The guy that did the review on it actually says he doubled the boom to 200 inches adding directors.

Another cool trick I did for a neighbor. They had a huge old Channel Master all band. I simply unbolted the UHF part (some you may have to saw off, but leave enough behind the reflector for mast clamp) since the VHF elements were trashed, but the UHF was intact (very often the case due to wind and birds). The UHF feed in combination with the VHF on 2 wires that already had bolts. Way to easy to just attach the balun. I just drilled holes behind the UHF reflector for a mast mount and it worked great. It probably wasn't 300 ohms without the VHF part in parallel, but it worked fine. It's actually very directional as it was big antenna.

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post #2090 of 3464 Old 01-13-2009, 10:49 AM
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I live approx 28 miles nnw of the tower and receive signal between 45 and 55% from wnbw but have not experienced any drop outs at all. All other locals (abc, cbs, fox pbs) I get 95 to 100% signal. Using a cm4228 up 45ft but with lots of trees around me. Seemed to pull better signal half way up but then I could not rotate the antenna for Jax, Tampa, Tallahassee, and georgia.
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post #2091 of 3464 Old 01-13-2009, 01:23 PM
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Piggie, I believe you said that you receive WNBW with a Winegard YA-1713 antenna out in Orange Springs? Right?

My question for you is: what antenna do you use for the UHF stations locally? Do you use a splitter/combiner?

I barely get WNBW in with an indoor amplified antenna, and if the wind reaches more than 10 MPH or so. I loose it rather quickly. I live in NE Gainesville near the airport so I'm VERY fortunate I actually get everything. My UHF stations here in Gainesville come in great most of the time.
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post #2092 of 3464 Old 01-13-2009, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmdew View Post

I live approx 28 miles nnw of the tower and receive signal between 45 and 55% from wnbw but have not experienced any drop outs at all. All other locals (abc, cbs, fox pbs) I get 95 to 100% signal. Using a cm4228 up 45ft but with lots of trees around me. Seemed to pull better signal half way up but then I could not rotate the antenna for Jax, Tampa, Tallahassee, and georgia.

Does that put you in or near Fort White? I used to live in Appaloosa Trails south on 47.

It's no telling why half way up is better but not unusual. Could be the density of trees, or you don't get multipath lower, hard to tell.

Do you get Jax, Tampa and Tally on analog, digital? When I lived near you besides Gainesville locals 20 and 51, 2 was very usable, 9 WFTV sometimes. 10 from Tampa was there a lot also.

Or do you DX and just watch if it skips in?

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post #2093 of 3464 Old 01-13-2009, 04:38 PM
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Piggie, I believe you said that you receive WNBW with a Winegard YA-1713 antenna out in Orange Springs? Right?

My question for you is: what antenna do you use for the UHF stations locally? Do you use a splitter/combiner?

I live about 2 air miles south of Orange Springs. I have a YA1713 up about 20 ft. It is into a CM7777 preamp that WOGX borderline overloads (working on that problem though it's not much of a problem).

With that set up WNBW was about 40 in the day and 48 at night. Barely locking. I loose lock between 35 to 38.

I use a CM4221A for UHF (now out of production, but if you really want one there are a few places that still have a few for a good price). UHF is very strong here, 80 plus.

I don't need a combiner splitter because the CM7777 preamp had a splitter built in.

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Originally Posted by JayPR View Post

I barely get WNBW in with an indoor amplified antenna, and if the wind reaches more than 10 MPH or so. I loose it rather quickly. I live in NE Gainesville near the airport so I'm VERY fortunate I actually get everything. My UHF stations here in Gainesville come in great most of the time.

Well the YA-1713 in my opinion is the best High Band only for the money. However you may not need that much antenna. The AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband might be plenty. I don't think you will get full scale on either the Winegard or the little AntennaCraft. But I think you will get plenty of signal with the cheaper AntennaCraft Y5-7-13, also smaller, doesn't take much of a mast.

Buying only a VHF implies you will keep using indoor for your UHF.

If you want to go to a one antenna solution the choices are limited since you have a 73 degree spread between WNBW/WGFL and WOGX. However since the UHF's are stong, you may not need to point right at them. The smallest combo I would buy is the Winegard HD 7694P

However 2 antenna solution maybe better to really be able to point VHF at WNBW and the UHF split.

A 2 antenna solution for the minimum I think would work is the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for VHF and a DB2 for UHF (if you receive UHF indoors, you would not need much outside.

The two combiners I think are the best are

Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna (UVSJ)

Winegard CC 7870 2-Way Antenna Joiner Coupler (CC7870)

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post #2094 of 3464 Old 01-15-2009, 04:25 AM
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Well the YA-1713 in my opinion is the best High Band only for the money. However you may not need that much antenna. The AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 Highband might be plenty. I don't think you will get full scale on either the Winegard or the little AntennaCraft. But I think you will get plenty of signal with the cheaper AntennaCraft Y5-7-13, also smaller, doesn't take much of a mast.

Buying only a VHF implies you will keep using indoor for your UHF.

If you want to go to a one antenna solution the choices are limited since you have a 73 degree spread between WNBW/WGFL and WOGX. However since the UHF's are stong, you may not need to point right at them. The smallest combo I would buy is the Winegard HD 7694P

However 2 antenna solution maybe better to really be able to point VHF at WNBW and the UHF split.

A 2 antenna solution for the minimum I think would work is the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 for VHF and a DB2 for UHF (if you receive UHF indoors, you would not need much outside.

The two combiners I think are the best are

Pico Macom UVSJ UHF VHF Band Separator/Combiner for Antenna (UVSJ)

Winegard CC 7870 2-Way Antenna Joiner Coupler (CC7870)

I'm extremely happy with my one antenna solution. I took Piggie's recommendation on the AntennaCraft and it's worked out very well. I'm completely sans cable right now, so all I watch are network shows. I actually feel free from "the man" (imagine that). I still need to get up on the roof and unplug my UHF just to see if I am getting multipath on WNBW. But aside from their audio being broadcast in stereo instead of DD 5.1, I can't complain at all. (oh, I CAN complain that TiVo still hasn't added 9.1 to their lineup so I'm having to setup recordings like I did in the BetaMax days)

I'm regularly around 75% signal strength on WNBW and that means no freezes or macroblocking.
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post #2095 of 3464 Old 01-15-2009, 07:05 AM
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I'm extremely happy with my one antenna solution. I took Piggie's recommendation on the AntennaCraft and it's worked out very well. I'm completely sans cable right now, so all I watch are network shows. I actually feel free from "the man" (imagine that). I still need to get up on the roof and unplug my UHF just to see if I am getting multipath on WNBW. But aside from their audio being broadcast in stereo instead of DD 5.1, I can't complain at all. (oh, I CAN complain that TiVo still hasn't added 9.1 to their lineup so I'm having to setup recordings like I did in the BetaMax days)

I'm regularly around 75% signal strength on WNBW and that means no freezes or macroblocking.

I guess no mini blocks either? well I wonder as fast as their signal drops off if the big boy YA-1713 would be the roof top antenna of choice from east Gainesville. I as still shocked you only get 75% being so much closer than I am to the tower. I really figured that the little AntennaCraft would be full scale to you. Live and learn. All this is so new compared to analog plus and probably more significant is I have never dealt with a VHF with such low power.

I don't think there is a true single antenna solution for in town in Gainesville. No matter what you need to point VHF right at WNBW, which means WOGX is off the side. WCJB seems strong enough in town though it's off the side also, it works. Of course WUFT in town with million watts, kicks the Llama's rear (from old WinAmp).

I am even 30 miles to the closest tower and I might be able to use something like the new 769xP Winegard series. I might have to shorten the UHF directors so they are broad enough out here to cover my 55 degree spread.

A couple years ago when I joined here the people west of tower were using the whisker 4 and 8 bay antennas, because they were broad. So that is why I choose the 4221, and glad I did. I am not a big fan of the 4228, which I think is too big, heavy and not that much better gain on UHF. However they are good when you have 2 UHFs that are not straight ahead and a VHF that is now weak.

NoBleach if you want to stay really entertained, read the How to build a UHF antenna thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265

Some smart cookies in there and experimenters. There is a home made 4 bay that the whiskers are slightly longer than the 4221 so it picks up low UHF better and the upper VHF channels.

Also very very interesting is the work being done on the The Gray-Hoverman antenna designs. It's a wonder no one commercially makes a Gray-Hoverman.
It's covered in both the thread above and it's own thread found by it's name.

Interesting stuff if you like antlers, which I do.

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Re: Gainesville, FL - HDTV

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Reply to your post 15524220

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendtech
TEST looks to be some sort of PBSHD
TEST2 looks to be STYLE-HD.
TEST3 Unknown
TEST4 WNBW-HD

According to the Cox Website, for the Gainesville area we will be getting these new channels (and lineup change)...

Ch. 9 WNBW-NBC
Ch. 67 TBS
Ch. 220 Oxygen
Ch. 229 PBS Sprout
Ch. 247 Style
Ch. 259 Cox Sports Television
Ch. 727 WNBW-NBC HD
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post #2097 of 3464 Old 01-15-2009, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post


NoBleach if you want to stay really entertained, read the How to build a UHF antenna thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798265

Some smart cookies in there and experimenters. There is a home made 4 bay that the whiskers are slightly longer than the 4221 so it picks up low UHF better and the upper VHF channels.

Also very very interesting is the work being done on the The Gray-Hoverman antenna designs. It's a wonder no one commercially makes a Gray-Hoverman.
It's covered in both the thread above and it's own thread found by it's name.

Interesting stuff if you like antlers, which I do.

No doubt....I have seen 2 rooftop 4221s in Gville now. I'd LOVE to spend a bunch of money building all these and testing em out. I wonder if my wife would approve
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post #2098 of 3464 Old 01-15-2009, 06:00 PM
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No doubt....I have seen 2 rooftop 4221s in Gville now. I'd LOVE to spend a bunch of money building all these and testing em out. I wonder if my wife would approve

I would bet $20 that both of them are hooked to digital TVs. While the 4221 has been around a long time. It used to be called the CM3021A. Whisker antennas, bowtie corner reflectors were popular when I was a little kid in the late 50's when I lived in Tampa, FL. We had one of the first UHFs on CH38.0 and even remember a neighbor having a UHF converter box on their TV. Our TV had UHF built in. It was an old semi round tube BW Zenith, with the date Mar 1954 stamped on the back in ink. I mostly remember watching though Ch3 which was our PBS station. But the new CH38 had my interest. They showed on an information program about once a day how to build an UHF antenna from a wire or coat hanger. I can't remember if my mom or dad helped but it was just a loop, and put to tiny loops on the ends to put under the UHF screw terminals on the back. Everyone in the family was impressed. I just hey I saw on TV, and we had the new channel (we lived right in town). That was the first antenna I ever built. So it's cool to see all this energy going again.

My OTA live on for more generations!

PS: I actually find myself watching it more than my sat except for a handful of channels. I have such a good deal on sat though I don't think I would turn it off.

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post #2099 of 3464 Old 01-16-2009, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

I would bet $20 that both of them are hooked to digital TVs. While the 4221 has been around a long time. It used to be called the CM3021A. Whisker antennas, bowtie corner reflectors were popular when I was a little kid in the late 50's when I lived in Tampa, FL. We had one of the first UHFs on CH38.0 and even remember a neighbor having a UHF converter box on their TV. Our TV had UHF built in. It was an old semi round tube BW Zenith, with the date Mar 1954 stamped on the back in ink. I mostly remember watching though Ch3 which was our PBS station. But the new CH38 had my interest. They showed on an information program about once a day how to build an UHF antenna from a wire or coat hanger. I can't remember if my mom or dad helped but it was just a loop, and put to tiny loops on the ends to put under the UHF screw terminals on the back. Everyone in the family was impressed. I just hey I saw on TV, and we had the new channel (we lived right in town). That was the first antenna I ever built. So it's cool to see all this energy going again.

My OTA live on for more generations!

PS: I actually find myself watching it more than my sat except for a handful of channels. I have such a good deal on sat though I don't think I would turn it off.

When I was a kid, I couldn't wait until I saved up the 5 bucks to buy a bow-tie UHF antenna with twin lead from Radio Shack. Never mind that I didn't even really WATCH UHF. I was just obsessed with antennas as a child. I had a loop and a pair of rabbit ears. My father used to build TVs so we never had a shortage of really cool stuff to play with. Oscilloscopes and the like....

After having people over to watch The Office last night, I was just in awe.... what we get with digital transmission... it's like so much better than what the cable company can offer. I will have a hard time explaining to my kids that I used to have 2 dials on the TV set. 2-13 and 14-83... there was even a fine tuning knob in the middle of those dials. The TV upstairs had a pair of rabbit ears attached to this box that had a knob on it.. the knob didn't really DO anything, it was more for placebo effect.
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post #2100 of 3464 Old 01-16-2009, 04:50 PM
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Does that put you in or near Fort White? I used to live in Appaloosa Trails south on 47.

It's no telling why half way up is better but not unusual. Could be the density of trees, or you don't get multipath lower, hard to tell.

Do you get Jax, Tampa and Tally on analog, digital? When I lived near you besides Gainesville locals 20 and 51, 2 was very usable, 9 WFTV sometimes. 10 from Tampa was there a lot also.

Or do you DX and just watch if it skips in?

No, I live just N. of Bell and I spoke to soon since it got cold the signal has dropped out several times. During testing period I was getting 80 plus and when it first came back up this year was in the 60's but now its even worse than 35 most of the time. During the night I can get just about any channel within 125 miles that I care to watch but daytime I only get the gainesville locals and sometimes Jax channels.

I'm also into fta so I have plenty to watch but really want to see the ota hd programs seeing how I bought a 50 plasma tv.

Was wondering if I put up a small vhf if it would help with wnbw but for now I'm just sending in complaints and going to send something into the Sun about its poor quality. Might get some boost of signal or something if everyone complained.
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