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post #2101 of 3464 Old 01-16-2009, 10:40 PM
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Hi all, I'm new here and I have a question. I live a little off US19 here in Old Town and am seeking advise on a antenna to get the new NBC channel. A long while back I used to have a old small outdoor radio shack uhf on a 15 foot pole that I was experimenting with when digital was starting. I could get WUFT (one of the only one's close at the time) with anywhere from 80 to 90+ percent signal strength consistently. Thanks to home renovations, I took it down, and due to being just old,damaged elements, etc etc, I need to find a cheap replacement. Ive been looking at the Phillips MANT940 at wally world, and a Winegard gs1100 "wing" antenna. I have also seen the Winegard hd1080 mentioned here. Getting WUFT that strong back then leads me to believe it shouldn't be hard for a good signal again. Thanks for any suggestions.
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post #2102 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by csmdew View Post

No, I live just N. of Bell and I spoke to soon since it got cold the signal has dropped out several times. During testing period I was getting 80 plus and when it first came back up this year was in the 60's but now its even worse than 35 most of the time. During the night I can get just about any channel within 125 miles that I care to watch but daytime I only get the gainesville locals and sometimes Jax channels.

Was wondering if I put up a small vhf if it would help with wnbw but for now I'm just sending in complaints and going to send something into the Sun about its poor quality. Might get some boost of signal or something if everyone complained.

There are really two choices for you. But beware until Ch9.0 WFTV goes off the air it's really really hard to tell what you need. From Bell you are almost pointing back at Orlando, pointing to Newberry, which in the last few days is probably a lot of the problem. From downtown Bell, WNBW is 116 degrees true, and WFTV is 127 true. or about 10 degrees. So pointing anything even a 2 by 2 stack of yagis at WNBW , WFTV will also be in your beam.

Choice one is the little AntennaCraft Y5-7-13
$30 Shipped
About 5db gain (they list higher but I don't believe AntennaCraft)

Choice two is a Winegard YA-1713
$50
About 10db of gain (this is believable)

Your CM4228 is about 3db gain on Ch9, but it was not listed if it was dbd or db

So, the AntennaCraft at 20 miles should work. But if you like to DX and it sounds like you do, the Winegard would be the ticket.

Now, the Winegard 1713 is Ch 7-13 only. If there are any channels 2-6 you know will be there after Feb 17th, you would want something that covered those channels as well.

Winegard HD 4053P is expensive but covers 2-13 and FM with about as much gain as you can get from a wideband log-yagi.
However its not out of production. They can be had by shopping around, call the people or email to be sure they really have one in stock.

They are about $120 solution.

--------

Now to add more options. Since you bought the CM4228, Winegard has come out with a line of Ch 7-69 antennas. They are pretty new, no real world test results but Winegard seldom makes a bad antenna. They are the 769xP Series. They range from $60 to well over $100.

The Winegard HD 7696P is the most popular of the series, and has the most gain for dollar. (they make 7694 through 7698).

The Winegard HD 7696P has a much gain as a CM4228 on paper. It replaces it and also has a lot of gain on VHF, as much as the YA-1713.

It is the perfect single antenna from Bell, since everything is one direction to you or within 20 degrees.

However you CM4228 is one of the best antenna ever made and I myself would not be likely to change it out.

NOTE!! and IMPORTANT!!

If you add a VHF antenna with your CM4228 and combine them in one coax things might act a little weird, since the 4228 also has some VHF gain. You would need a preamp that separated them or a combiner ahead of them that separated them. The combiner would loose 3bd combining. An Amp like the CM7777 would be perfect.

Or you could run 2 coaxes and an A/B Switch at the bottom of the tower.

Or just try combining them if your amp (presume in Bell you have an amp) doesn't have separate inputs and see what happens. Sometime antennas that are not supposed to work together do and visa versa.

Lots of choices. To have to buy a new amp then the new Winegard 7696 would seem like a good idea. It would be less wind load than a 4228.

Many many choices.

Probably the first thing to consider is what type of amp do you use?

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post #2103 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieSasquatch View Post

I live a little off US19 here in Old Town and am seeking advise on a antenna to get the new NBC channel. ...old small outdoor radio shack uhf on a 15 foot pole that I was experimenting with when digital was starting. I could get WUFT from 80 to 90+ percent signal strength consistently.

Ive been looking at the Phillips MANT940 at wally world, and a Winegard gs1100 "wing" antenna. I have also seen the Winegard hd1080 mentioned here. Getting WUFT that strong back then leads me to believe it shouldn't be hard for a good signal again. Thanks for any suggestions.

First you are way out of town. Forget what I call "trick" or "gizmo" antennas like the MANT940 or the GS1100. I really doubt the HD1080 has enough gain for CH9 from Old Town.

You are right at 30 miles from from WNBW. Your old little Radio Shack would work (if replaced) on WUFT, WGFL and probably WCJB. WOGX would be iffy. Actually from OldTown it takes a lot of gain to pick up WOGX.

Cheap is relative. Plus if you are up only 15 ft you need some gain.

A one antenna solution of choice would be the Winegard 7696P, but that is a $90 antenna shipped.

You might be by on another radio shack $30 UHF (rest of their antennas are crap or over priced). But this http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088 is a good antenna for $30 and tax. It's also at most Radio Shacks (no shipping).

However that won't fix your WNBW reception, since it's on Ch9 or Highband VHF.

You could add small VHF also but at 15 ft, that is not enough mast to separate them well (3 to 5 feet). And by the time you buy two antennas you could buy one that does it all.

I would recommend the 7696P, which is $100 shipped in. You may also need a preamp out there. Maybe not if you didn't have one before.

If you want to take a chance you get enough gain, the little sister Winegard is the 7694P. $71 shipped in.

=====

If you are handy with tools there are antennas to build. Which save a lot of money if you have some tools and some of the parts around the garage.

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post #2104 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for the input Piggie, that radioshack antenna you linked is the exact one I had. It worked great when it was new and yes I used a preamp. I might take a chance on the smaller winegard if I go that route. I am a little confused though on why that radioshack wouldnt work for vhf high. It doesnt look that different from the antennacraft y5-7-13 with its uhf elements removed, just smaller maybe. Thanks again.
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post #2105 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 10:47 AM
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A couple non-antenna reception questions for the group:

I'm trying to find the most economical way of getting the channels that we watch and maximizing the number of HD stations as well. We're currently on Cox Extended with no HD service (I'm picking up HD on ABC, CBS, PBS, CW?, and now NBC over QAM). Plus we're addicted to DVRs (currently an old analog Tivo). Personally I'm sick of Cox jacking our rates every 6 months (I recently switched from Cox Internet to ATT DSL as well).

I'm leaning towards DISH as Directv doesn't offer Locals and DISH's 2 room DVR is the next best thing to Tivo. DISH's lineups are odd (they leave out some relatively popular stations on the lower tiers, like Animal Planet?), and their TurboHD lineup is also odd (no ComedyCentral?), but the Top100+Locals+Bronze HD would work for us probably. However they still don't carry WNBW on their locals as far as their reps will tell me, and they don't seem to have a clue as to when they'll add it.

Does anyone have any idea how to contact Dish (or WNBW?) to get information about WNBW availability or to pressure them to add it? The front line reps are worse than useless. I'm also open to other suggestions, though I'm probably not going to be erecting any 60' masts ;-). I'm located ~2 miles W of Tower Road off Archer Rd, if that helps.
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post #2106 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 11:28 AM
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I was told yesterday by dish that they do not show it and to "keep checking back with them" to see when they offer the new nbc.

Oh, and btw Piggie, just for kicks I hooked up what was left of the radioshack antenna (just the main pipe with the short elements) and the amp and sat in the living room in the lazyboy holding the antenna. It found wuft 1,2&3 with 70% signal lol!
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post #2107 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 02:36 PM
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Well Piggie here's another odd situ.....I took U r advice & disconnected the Amp from the antenna but what's 1 thing odd is that I still need to orient directionally to the exact west to get WNBW & in that position I get also 28.1-2 20.1-2 and 5.1-2-3 as well but no 51.1 digital at all!Now after doing that the lower antenna at eye level was having a hard time getting WNBW and 28.1-2 for that matter.So I then used the Amp on that antenna & I get everything pretty good but at times choppy.Add to the other odd thing is when WNBW decided to no longer use 9.2-3-4 my converter box the digital stream one doesn't get 9.1 at any significant signal level on the same antenna as my HDTV wonder tuner gets it at a steady 66%, digital stream sees 34% at best & complains no signal and yet gets 51.1 just fine!Meanwhile the Maggetbox converter gets with antenna at eye level with Amp a good signal on WNBW as well as 51.1 go figure?
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post #2108 of 3464 Old 01-17-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieSasquatch View Post

Thanks for the input Piggie, that radioshack antenna you linked is the exact one I had. It worked great when it was new and yes I used a preamp. I might take a chance on the smaller winegard if I go that route. I am a little confused though on why that radioshack wouldnt work for vhf high. It doesnt look that different from the antennacraft y5-7-13 with its uhf elements removed, just smaller maybe. Thanks again.

That is the ONLY antenna they still sell I recommend to anyone. It's a basic UHF ONLY log-yagi with a corner reflector. Nothing to screw up like scrambled eggs at a dinner you don't know, lol. And for $29.99 locally it performs as expected. I have one here someone gave me so long ago, I don't know how I had it. I hooked it up with a cheap amp I have and it kept right up with my 4221A. It's a little narrower than the 4221, but push came to shove I could use it and live with a lower WOGX but locked signal.

The rest of the Radio Shack antennas you can buy cheaper online including shipping on other sites.

If you look at your UHF. I should be about 15 inches across at the widest. The Y5-7-13 is about 36 inches wide. The width of the antenna tells you what channels it's tuned to receive. If you don't know dipole theory, in a nutshell the elements on the UHF Radio Shack are not wide enough to pick up VHF signals.

Antenna craft does make a smaller antenna than the Winegard 7694P, the AntennaCraft HBU22. Knowing the reception people in Gainesville are getting with the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13, it worries me though to even mention a smaller antenna than Y5-7-13 or the 7694P. Myself if I lived where you are by the signals it shows on http://tvfool.com I would go with the 7696P. WNBW is weak weak weak weak weak.

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post #2109 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BFWE1ATNET View Post

.....I took U r advice & disconnected the Amp from the antenna but what's 1 thing odd is that I still need to orient directionally to the exact west to get WNBW & in that position I get also 28.1-2 20.1-2 and 5.1-2-3 as well but no 51.1 digital at all!

Good test! With no amp, it takes a lot of weird effect out of the equation. So since you are (more or less) west WBNW and you have to point away from the tower, you are definitely picking up a reflection that is stronger to you location than the direct signal. I you slog through the last 5 pages or so of the Orlando OTA thread, there is a guy there that had the same exact deal with WESH Ch 11.1 actual. He had to point away from the tower to pick up WESH but could point toward the towers and pick up the UHF channels, but not VHF.

I would say this test is conclusive and to watch WNBW you do have to point west toward a reflection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BFWE1ATNET View Post

Now after doing that the lower antenna at eye level was having a hard time getting WNBW and 28.1-2 for that matter.So I then used the Amp on that antenna & I get everything pretty good but at times choppy.

This was a good test to prove (at least with the antenna low) you need an amp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BFWE1ATNET View Post

Add to the other odd thing is when WNBW decided to no longer use 9.2-3-4 my converter box the digital stream one doesn't get 9.1 at any significant signal level on the same antenna as my HDTV wonder tuner gets it at a steady 66%, digital stream sees 34% at best & complains no signal and yet gets 51.1 just fine!Meanwhile the Maggetbox converter gets with antenna at eye level with Amp a good signal on WNBW as well as 51.1 go figure?
Brian in Williston

Well you learned another fact of digital TV. Not all receivers are the same. Some work better than others.

Orlando OTA it a good thread to read. They have one VHF just like us, but their VHF runs a lot of power. Still you learn weird situations from some of their posts. There is guy there that actually went through several converter boxes before he could watch TV. His problem was multipath from aircraft. Not unlike your situation. Your mulitpath (evident from pointing west for WNBW) is constant. His mulitpath from aircraft came and went as they flew over. (they act like a big flying building reflecting a second signal from the tower).

The thing you call the MaggetBox (is that the real name or Magnavox?) seems to be the best tuner for mulitpath, which I now believe is you biggest problem. (plus I think you told me a LOT of trees due east). The fact the Magnavox? gets good signal with the antenna at eye level also tells me there is in fact mulitpath that maybe worse up higher and that converter is less effected by mulitpath.

I hope my answers helped. I read the message before I went to bed last night and said, wow, I need to sleep on this and read it again in the morning before I answer!

Another idea is take this problem over to the HDTV Technical. In the list it's right below this main thread of Local HDTV Info and Reception. There are a few guys over there mclapp, idrick and other's that have much more experience than I.

However I would you learned this.

Use the amp.
Use the Maggetbox, lol
Putting the antenna higher may actually hurt your reception.

Piggie :@) aka PapaPig....

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post #2110 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 08:17 AM
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If you have been having no video or audio from WNBW since about Thursday night or Friday sometime, this is why.

If you have a newer TV or converter box, you probably didn't notice.

One of my TVs stopped decoding WNBW so I emailed Trip in VA my TSReader output (he gets credit for figuring it out).

The table that contains the TVCT (Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table) in the PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) is not there. Probably someone threw the wrong switch!

In a nutshell PSIP is the standard that puts up the channel call sign, rating of the program, the schedule guide. Several parts of the PSIP are required by the ATSC standard, some are optional. The TVCT table is required as one of its main functions is to map the real channel to the virtual channel. This is evident as my bedroom TV can't decode WNBW this weekend.

All of you should be able to notice by tuning the OTA of WNBW and notice there is not call sign on the screen.

A very simple read on PSIP can be found in this little (well not that little) slide show. http://www.iptv.org/dtv/2001/webpres...ion/sld001.htm

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post #2111 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 08:23 AM
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Technically speaking, the FCC doesn't require PSIP even if ATSC does, and many LP digital stations don't have it. I can't believe they managed to build receivers that won't work without PSIP, and yet at the same time, I'm not surprised.

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post #2112 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Technically speaking, the FCC doesn't require PSIP even if ATSC does, and many LP digital stations don't have it. I can't believe they managed to build receivers that won't work without PSIP, and yet at the same time, I'm not surprised.

- Trip

For me they should require it! LOL.

Mine is an old Toshiba (can't read the model number right now off the back).

It's the one that doesn't like MPEG2 audio. It's digital receiver is not as good as my el cheapo Ölevia. The Toshiba I bought on a close out at BestBuy after Christmas sale. My bedroom TV died. I was not ready to spend $1000000000 on an LCD/Plasma. I spotted it. It has a 480i wide screen tube, 26 inches, for $300. That was in Jan 2007 and it was a 2005 model I think, maybe older. So it's at least 4 years out of date technology wise. Actually I like the TV. Black mask screen gives a good picture. It only has component input and only accepts 480i in. So I have a progressive scan DVD player hooked up that will stay on 480i. It actually looks darn good for the low resolution. HD OTA looks great on it. 4:3 has a slight convergence problem but I read about that model and it has that and it's best not to touch it unless a factory guy does the convergence. Many tried to do it themselves or a local TV shop and it was worse. It's very very liveable.

MyGainesvilleTV doesn't have EIT on their MY programming. If you have my old TSR pages I sent with the EIT you will see that. WNBW is limping. NBC promised to have a lot of equipment there for their send off, but it's still on backorder.

I am pretty sure I know what happened. They didn't have CC, and that is a must to the hearing community. The same night they turned on CC, they lost TVCT. I think having to totally learn the wrong piece of equipment has them in over load. I can say coming from the analog world, if I were chief there I would be pulling my hair learning and trying to make what between NBC hasn't sent and what the locals didn't buy.

So we need to cut the staff there a WHOLE lot of slack. I think they are doing what is possible with what they have with the knowledge they have.

Not sure when our local PBS when DTV, but it was before I had a set, so probably 2004 2005 era. I talked to their chief and his assistant who yeah, know them also and they are the best of the best in our market. They pulled hair! One half of their new digital replacement transmitter blew in early 2007 and they still are not sure why.

It's been interesting, knowing most of these guys most of my life and knowing for the old timers, the engineering switch was truly the learning experience of their lives. Probably the other biggest switch was digital studio equipment, but it put out an analog signal and you called the factory (me) if anything went wrong inside.

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post #2113 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 12:13 PM
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Well, I know of a few LPTV stations with PSIP, WOTH-LD in Cincinnati and WAHU-LD here in Charlottesville, but plenty of others do not have it (KTWN-LD Searcy AR, K38IZ-D Phoenix, W36DO-D Philadelphia, K31GL-D Dallas).

I'd be curious to find out of those LDs on 32 and 42 in Orlando have it.

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post #2114 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Well, I know of a few LPTV stations with PSIP, WOTH-LD in Cincinnati and WAHU-LD here in Charlottesville, but plenty of others do not have it (KTWN-LD Searcy AR, K38IZ-D Phoenix, W36DO-D Philadelphia, K31GL-D Dallas).

I'd be curious to find out of those LDs on 32 and 42 in Orlando have it.

- Trip

I wish someone that didn't care I put programs on their laptop.

Sad part is I am from Orlando. I know a few folks there and even set up their PC's back 8 years ago for them.

They all of them got divorced. Now it's very awkward to go visit. I don't even hear from them except once every few years now. It stinks as I knew them all my life since I was 8 to 10 years old. Otherwise I could swing for a visit, put in the TSReader , taking my HD1080. One would seem with all the posts in Orlando OTA someone would have a USB tuner.

Well even if they activate the LP DTs in Gainesburger like that WSSP I think i'ts call. I am too far out of town to care. I barely get WNBW. Odd though. Short tropo skip was in the other day and I saw WLUF 10.0 for the first time ever on my TV's since I put back up OTA antlers 2 years ago. Most of the time any skip brings in 10.0 from Largo FL and there is no chance to see it.

I need to call WUFT boys. WLUF is supposed to occupy CH5.1 come Feb 17th. Not sure if I will see it but maybe since it's digital. But that would mean I need to pull out my old lowband antenna. Not sure it's enough, as it's 4 elements someone gave me years ago. I can see their sync tips most of the time on my old Toshiba (even with it's antique digital tuner it's analog is pretty good). They are running 57 watts on Ch 10.0, post transition they are going to 300 watts on Ch5.1 actual. TVFool says it will be stronger here than WNBW. But I would have to run a separate coax and amp. Or I would have to run 3 amps ahead of a combiner. Or give up and buy one huge antenna again, not.

Still once WUFT 5.0 goes silent, you can be sure I will hook up something and try to decode WLUF 5.1 (hmm wonder if they will have PSIP?? Probably since they are a sister of WUFT from the Univ of FL). Then again, 5.0 shows a lot of 60 Hz motor type noise that is not coming from my house, so it maybe impossible. I would be nice as they show about the same thing as 5.3, but at different times.

------------

PS: TVFool has several errors for Gainesville. I have emailed them but nothing ever changed, probably overloaded. Is there a better way to get info to them?

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post #2115 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post

I wish someone that didn't care I put programs on their laptop.

Sad part is I am from Orlando. I know a few folks there and even set up their PC's back 8 years ago for them.

They all of them got divorced. Now it's very awkward to go visit. I don't even hear from them except once every few years now. It stinks as I knew them all my life since I was 8 to 10 years old. Otherwise I could swing for a visit, put in the TSReader , taking my HD1080. One would seem with all the posts in Orlando OTA someone would have a USB tuner.

Well even if they activate the LP DTs in Gainesburger like that WSSP I think i'ts call. I am too far out of town to care. I barely get WNBW. Odd though. Short tropo skip was in the other day and I saw WLUF 10.0 for the first time ever on my TV's since I put back up OTA antlers 2 years ago. Most of the time any skip brings in 10.0 from Largo FL and there is no chance to see it.

I need to call WUFT boys. WLUF is supposed to occupy CH5.1 come Feb 17th. Not sure if I will see it but maybe since it's digital. But that would mean I need to pull out my old lowband antenna. Not sure it's enough, as it's 4 elements someone gave me years ago. I can see their sync tips most of the time on my old Toshiba (even with it's antique digital tuner it's analog is pretty good). They are running 57 watts on Ch 10.0, post transition they are going to 300 watts on Ch5.1 actual. TVFool says it will be stronger here than WNBW. But I would have to run a separate coax and amp. Or I would have to run 3 amps ahead of a combiner. Or give up and buy one huge antenna again, not.

Still once WUFT 5.0 goes silent, you can be sure I will hook up something and try to decode WLUF 5.1 (hmm wonder if they will have PSIP?? Probably since they are a sister of WUFT from the Univ of FL). Then again, 5.0 shows a lot of 60 Hz motor type noise that is not coming from my house, so it maybe impossible. I would be nice as they show about the same thing as 5.3, but at different times.

Ah well, we'll see what happens. WSSH-LD might not sign back on any time soon, Budd has silenced many of his stations it would seem.

No rush and no worries with Orlando.

Good luck with WLUF-LD. You'll need it. If you want to hear incessant complaining, just get me going about low-VHF digitals.

Quote:


------------

PS: TVFool has several errors for Gainesville. I have emailed them but nothing ever changed, probably overloaded. Is there a better way to get info to them?

Go to the HDTV Technical forum on here, there's a thread a few pages back called "Official TV Fool Forum." Andy Lee, who runs TV Fool, monitors that thread. Anything I've posted there has gotten a response from him. Give it a try.

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post #2116 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Ah well, we'll see what happens. WSSH-LD might not sign back on any time soon, Budd has silenced many of his stations it would seem.

No rush and no worries with Orlando.

Good luck with WLUF-LD. You'll need it. If you want to hear incessant complaining, just get me going about low-VHF digitals.



Go to the HDTV Technical forum on here, there's a thread a few pages back called "Official TV Fool Forum." Andy Lee, who runs TV Fool, monitors that thread. Anything I've posted there has gotten a response from him. Give it a try.

- Trip

I was hoping we would get a 2.1 running 50 watts or so with some really great programming. Low band carries so far! LOL. Are you excited yet?

I have found in general that 5 is about the only good low band channel. It's above the E-skip most of the time. It's somewhat above the electrical noise problem. 6 would be ok, if you don't live near a FM. Oddly with my ya1713 pointed away from Ch6.0 in Orlando, it comes in better than pointed at it, lol.

I had always wished there was a ham band around 100MHz. I think it would be a blast to try it out for DX.

Ok, I though Andy was the man, I will post to him there.

Hey, I will still have to play with trying 5.1 once they get it on the air. I have an old amp. If I can decode it, I can try running in a separate coax and combine it with my HB and UHF after the amps.

Speaking of old amps. My old amp breaks into oscillation after about 5 minutes. It didn't do that at first after being on the shelf for 10 years plus. Normally electrolytic caps will age just like that. They work when you turn them on years later but then die. Oddly I have 3 power supplies for it people have given me. I gave one to my son for another old amp I had. His oscillates but not bad enough to bother UHF. I thought it might be the power supplies as they would have the caps big enough to normally go bad. I don't have zip for test equipment anymore. Sold it all when I sold my pager repair biz. I can't even look with a scope to see if the power supply is not filtered.

You know anyone here with experience to ask about how to fix it? It has to be a bad cap in it somewhere. Then I could either use it for FM or if the 5.1 thing works (doubtful). But there is a new Jazz station now in Gainesville that is low power and I have an old RS really Antenna Craft yagi I could put up, run on a totally different system to my stereo receiver in the living room. That would be nice to have that.

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post #2117 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 04:41 PM
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I was hoping we would get a 2.1 running 50 watts or so with some really great programming. Low band carries so far! LOL. Are you excited yet?

I have a station at 7.25 kW on channel 3 with some really great programming--it's my PBS. And it's unwatchable a lot of the time! Yay, low-VHF!

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I have found in general that 5 is about the only good low band channel. It's above the E-skip most of the time. It's somewhat above the electrical noise problem. 6 would be ok, if you don't live near a FM. Oddly with my ya1713 pointed away from Ch6.0 in Orlando, it comes in better than pointed at it, lol.

I had always wished there was a ham band around 100MHz. I think it would be a blast to try it out for DX.

It may be "the best" of the low-VHF but that doesn't make it good. There's a reason stations avoided it like the plague.

That would be interesting... not sure where it would go these days though.

Quote:


Ok, I though Andy was the man, I will post to him there.

Hey, I will still have to play with trying 5.1 once they get it on the air. I have an old amp. If I can decode it, I can try running in a separate coax and combine it with my HB and UHF after the amps.

Best of luck with it. Really, you'll need all the luck you can get.

Quote:


Speaking of old amps. My old amp breaks into oscillation after about 5 minutes. It didn't do that at first after being on the shelf for 10 years plus. Normally electrolytic caps will age just like that. They work when you turn them on years later but then die. Oddly I have 3 power supplies for it people have given me. I gave one to my son for another old amp I had. His oscillates but not bad enough to bother UHF. I thought it might be the power supplies as they would have the caps big enough to normally go bad. I don't have zip for test equipment anymore. Sold it all when I sold my pager repair biz. I can't even look with a scope to see if the power supply is not filtered.

You know anyone here with experience to ask about how to fix it? It has to be a bad cap in it somewhere. Then I could either use it for FM or if the 5.1 thing works (doubtful). But there is a new Jazz station now in Gainesville that is low power and I have an old RS really Antenna Craft yagi I could put up, run on a totally different system to my stereo receiver in the living room. That would be nice to have that.

That I know nothing about. Sorry!

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post #2118 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 05:51 PM
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A few days ago, WNBW showed up on my tuner on ch 9.3, rather than 9.1. Is this normal?

This is aside from all fits I'm still having trying to get it to tune from my location in Gainesville, just off Tower Rd.
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post #2119 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 05:54 PM
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A few days ago, WNBW showed up on my tuner on ch 9.3, rather than 9.1. Is this normal?

This is aside from all fits I'm still having trying to get it to tune from my location in Gainesville, just off Tower Rd.

It is when their PSIP is gone. Once it comes back, it'll show up on 9-1 where it belongs.

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post #2120 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 08:14 PM
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It is when their PSIP is gone. Once it comes back, it'll show up on 9-1 where it belongs.

- Trip

I tried every possible combination night before last up to 9-10. Oddly enough with their PSIP off, I see their signal strength on 9.anything.

I know what they need to do. Buy a 26 inch LCD, trade for my TV so they can see when something goes wrong on it. They could write it off as depreciate test equipment.

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post #2121 of 3464 Old 01-18-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flyinggator View Post

A few days ago, WNBW showed up on my tuner on ch 9.3, rather than 9.1. Is this normal?

This is aside from all fits I'm still having trying to get it to tune from my location in Gainesville, just off Tower Rd.

To me, your results are typical of everyone I have talked to in west Gainesville. Even that close to the tower, inside antenna is not enough. So far 3 out of 3 people that have chimed in here are saying even that close you must run an outdoor antenna of some gain. NoBleach has 6dbd in the air at 30 ft and only gets in the 70s to 80's. I am double the distance (37 miles) and only get 40 with a single 10dbd beam. I am trying to phase a second beam but so far no luck. And you I thought I knew what I was doing! LOL. Antenna are strange. Sometimes you luck into success and the next time it's all on paper and takes a dump on your when you put it outside on the pole.

I emailed Winegard for ideas, since the whole VHF rig including combiner is theirs and will try and call them tomorrow to see if they talk on the phone.

I must be in new ground as even the thread I started in HDTV Tech had no answers last time I looked. Something I am going is wrong. 2 beams should have a little more gain than a single beam.

Details at 11:00 (you guess the day).

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post #2122 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 06:45 AM
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WNBW on Cox is only 2 (maybe 2.1) if we are lucky.
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post #2123 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 07:07 AM
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A couple non-antenna reception questions for the group:

I'm trying to find the most economical way of getting the channels that we watch and maximizing the number of HD stations as well. We're currently on Cox Extended with no HD service (I'm picking up HD on ABC, CBS, PBS, CW?, and now NBC over QAM). Plus we're addicted to DVRs (currently an old analog Tivo). Personally I'm sick of Cox jacking our rates every 6 months (I recently switched from Cox Internet to ATT DSL as well).

I'm leaning towards DISH as Directv doesn't offer Locals and DISH's 2 room DVR is the next best thing to Tivo. DISH's lineups are odd (they leave out some relatively popular stations on the lower tiers, like Animal Planet?), and their TurboHD lineup is also odd (no ComedyCentral?), but the Top100+Locals+Bronze HD would work for us probably. However they still don't carry WNBW on their locals as far as their reps will tell me, and they don't seem to have a clue as to when they'll add it.

Does anyone have any idea how to contact Dish (or WNBW?) to get information about WNBW availability or to pressure them to add it? The front line reps are worse than useless. I'm also open to other suggestions, though I'm probably not going to be erecting any 60' masts ;-). I'm located ~2 miles W of Tower Road off Archer Rd, if that helps.

I have been going round and round with TiVo about adding WNBW to their guide data....

Dish told me they'd be adding it. (I'm technically a Dish customer until they kick me out of their system) DirectTV is still claiming we can get locals in their literature. I can't give HUGHES my business because they use TiVo... it's a long political story that I won't get into on this forum.

If you're looking to maximize your HD, Dish or an antenna are the only way to go.
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post #2124 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 02:26 PM
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I got the lineup change on my Tivo about a week ago? I've got my hooked to broadband, so maybe you need to force an update.

DirecTV's literature has never distinguished the local markets around here, so even there Gainesville Sun advertising shows locals as available. It's only after you *call* them that they confess that it's not available. Being that it's gone on so long, I would call that misleading advertising at this point.

I'm sure Dish will *eventually* offer WNBW, the only question is how long. Given the inertia in these things I would be surprised if it took a year. I was thinking it might be worth it to work the other end, and pressure WNBW to call Dish and get added.

What's the issue with Hughes and Tivo, is it because of their old deal with Directivo recievers? I heard they were bringing those back.
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post #2125 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 04:44 PM
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I got the lineup change on my Tivo about a week ago? I've got my hooked to broadband, so maybe you need to force an update.

DirecTV's literature has never distinguished the local markets around here, so even there Gainesville Sun advertising shows locals as available. It's only after you *call* them that they confess that it's not available. Being that it's gone on so long, I would call that misleading advertising at this point.

I'm sure Dish will *eventually* offer WNBW, the only question is how long. Given the inertia in these things I would be surprised if it took a year. I was thinking it might be worth it to work the other end, and pressure WNBW to call Dish and get added.

What's the issue with Hughes and Tivo, is it because of their old deal with Directivo recievers? I heard they were bringing those back.

Your TiVo shows program data for the OTA version of WNBW???? (not cox cable)

I'll force an update and see. I even contacted Tribune media about it.

Actually the Gainesville Sun advertisements were EXACTLY what I was referring to.

Basically (and hopefully without emotion) I've been a TiVo customer since 2002 when I bought a Series 2 single tuner when they first came out. ($400) I was a beta tester for all the home media options... then paid 50 bucks to actually PURCHASE those services at the end of the beta testing limit, then they were made free a few months later. I've turned many family members and a couple of friends onto TiVo and got the kickback points from TiVo. (never spent them).

This past September, I upgraded to a hi-def TiVoHD. Love it but when I went to order cablecard installation from Cox, they couldn't get it right.... after I realized they didn't have anything I'd actually want to watch, I canceled. I called Dish to schedule an HD install. Sold the HD TiVo to my father. I got shot down by Dish as I have too many trees in front of their HD satellite (61.5).

I ordered a refurbed HD TiVo from Tivo.com.... that's when I realized, I was locked into a year contract for the original HD TiVo that I bought in September. I asked them to let me out of it since I had sold that TiVo and I was ordering another anyway. TiVo has no "customer service" dept, but they do have a number that one can call to hear that "their hands are tied and no one has any power to do anything to actually help a customer"

So at the recommendation of the "CSR" I refused shipment of the TiVo and asked my father if I could buy my old HD TiVo back. He agreed. All should have been right.

This month I noticed that I was still being billed for my ancient series 2. I haven't connected it to the net from the very moment I put the TiVoHD in the rack.... and they use this information for billing all the time! So I call and ask that I be reimbursed for the service as I wasn't USING two TiVos, even THEY could see that I hadn't checked in for guide data. But I had the "potential" to use it.... so I was stuck paying it. I asked to speak to someone that could "do something helpful". The "CSR" transferred me and it's the same story. There is NO ONE available via a 1-800 number that is allowed to refund money. I did remind them a few times that I had been a loyal customer of TiVo for 6 years and counting.... like a cell phone company or a bank, no one really cares about that anymore. So when my one year TiVo contract is up this coming September, I will ditch this box and NEVER do business with this company. I know they could care less about losing a customer but it's about all I can do as a consumer. Looks like Echostar is marketing a nice little DVR for the OTA folks.

*I apologize to those that don't like political rants based on consumer experience. At no time did I bash any particular company. I am simply listing my reasons why I will not do business with a particular company. Furthermore, I am NOT advocating ANYONE else NOT do business with any particular company.*
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post #2126 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 10:16 PM
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Is there any problem with WNBW? I haven't been able to see it since last Thursday. An RCA lcd at my house is picking it up with no picture but something like 90% signal and at a relatives house 2 miles to the north on a new Samsung set with around 70%. I've done a rescan on both and get the channel just with no picture/audio coming up at all. It happened to go out right after Bush's farewell speech last week. Maybe I'm just cursed with tvs but there should be no problem since I am literally within less than 5 miles to the NW from their transmitter and I have it aimed directly to where the transmitter sits.

We're both using tall radio shack aerials about 20 feet up for mine and 25 for her. The kicker is she can also get WOGX and I can't do anything but just have the RCA pick up that 31.1 is there but with no picture/audio. Did I mention she's 2 miles directly north of me? If you're telling me this is a good as 31.1's signal is going to be this time next month, I'm going to be pissed.

I just did yet another rescan and now my RCA doesn't even recognize the channel is there on the autoscan but the tuning directly says 9.1 is coming in at 84%.
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post #2127 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobleach View Post

I have been going round and round with TiVo about adding WNBW to their guide data....

Dish told me they'd be adding it. (I'm technically a Dish customer until they kick me out of their system) DirectTV is still claiming we can get locals in their literature. I can't give HUGHES my business because they use TiVo... it's a long political story that I won't get into on this forum.

If you're looking to maximize your HD, Dish or an antenna are the only way to go.

I am not sure at all, but WNBW has not had their PSIP TVCT information running since Thursday night.

They may or maynot affect your Tivo. I am guessing not, but still worth waiting until they get it running. They called me today and said they hoped to have it fixed tomorrow.

====

Also as an aside if you are or are not following my posts in HDTV Tech about my stacking trials and tribs, I heard from Winregard today.

They confirmed my suspicion that I had them stacked too far apart. I wasn't sure but figured more distance over a wavelength would be wrong.

They answered my email in hours and with good solid tech infomation. I was very impressed at their customer service. With the way Channel Master has leaped back to their old ways of the same antenna for more double the money, I can't get excited about them any more. They still make one of the best preamps on the market for the price.

One thing is sure, before I bought any more UHF antennas (with the exception of the like your Radio Shack mini reflector, I would just build a Gray Hoverman antenna. They are even easier than the 4 bay YouTube whisker antenna.

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post #2128 of 3464 Old 01-19-2009, 10:38 PM
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Is there any problem with WNBW?

Yes, it has no PSIP at the moment. So the information that tells the receiver that it should map to 9-1 is missing, and some TVs will not show anything without that data.

- Trip

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post #2129 of 3464 Old 01-20-2009, 06:06 AM
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Also as an aside if you are or are not following my posts in HDTV Tech about my stacking trials and tribs, I heard from Winregard today.

They confirmed my suspicion that I had them stacked too far apart. I wasn't sure but figured more distance over a wavelength would be wrong.

They answered my email in hours and with good solid tech infomation. I was very impressed at their customer service. With the way Channel Master has leaped back to their old ways of the same antenna for more double the money, I can't get excited about them any more. They still make one of the best preamps on the market for the price.

One thing is sure, before I bought any more UHF antennas (with the exception of the like your Radio Shack mini reflector, I would just build a Gray Hoverman antenna. They are even easier than the 4 bay YouTube whisker antenna.

I actually got up on the roof and disconnected that UHF yesterday. I was up there securing the antennas and cables for the wind. I wanted to test the multi-path suspicion that you had. Still looking at 83% as a peak. My signal level hovered on 79-80% which was an incredibly good picture. With ONLY the AntennaCraft plugged in, I was getting around 60% on WCJB and WUFT and nothing for the other UHF stations. That was to be expected of course, but I STILL can't figure out why I was pulling 60% on WNBW with JUST that UHF a few weeks ago. I did read the entire batch of reviews on Radio Shack's site and apparently others have noticed the same thing.

As far as the TiVo using PSIP, that would actually be a step in the right direction. One of the things they do that just floors me is that they require cablecards to map QAM channels. I would LOVE if I could just tell my TiVo that 107.3 it TRULY WESH NBC..... but they think I should pay for that privilege.
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post #2130 of 3464 Old 01-20-2009, 06:53 AM
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For you QAM'ers out there, and if it hasn't been said already, the new NBC is on 110.1
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