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post #8851 of 9528 Old 05-26-2018, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Oddly, his graphs record a couple of brief flashes on RF 21 after KWDA went down. I'm guessing they were actually for another station, possibly K21KJ in Mineral Wells coming in via tropo.
I consulted the logs and found a TSID for KPXJ (near Shreveport).
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post #8852 of 9528 Old 05-27-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Hmm.... KDTX/58 was off the air briefly earlier this afternoon.
KDTX/58 went off the air again about half an hour ago. Edit: Back on again. They were off for just under an hour.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 05-29-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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post #8853 of 9528 Old 05-29-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Hmm.... Looks like KWDA/30 went south again, about 4:30 PM [5/24].
Back on the air as of 5 PM today, so they were off for just about 5 days.

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post #8854 of 9528 Old 05-29-2018, 06:20 PM
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I'm seeing a signal on RF 24! After a false start or two, it came on steady at 7:15 PM.

Edit: Whoops! I thought we were ready to go, but the RF 24 signal just died.

Oh, well; I'm sure it'll be back by the time I get up tomorrow AM.

Edit 2: Well, that could've gone more smoothly, but it looks like everything is switched over now. RF 24 came back up again shortly after I posted that last edit, and I haven't seen any more glitches. They shut RF 41 off a bit after 1 AM while I was asleep.

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post #8855 of 9528 Old 05-30-2018, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
KDTX/58 went off the air again about half an hour ago. Edit: Back on again. They were off for just under an hour.
They just went off again! Must be having big equipment problems. Edit: Back on, again after about an hour.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 05-30-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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post #8856 of 9528 Old 05-30-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
BTW it looks like we lost another live bandscan in the area: Bob Nelson's graphs all went "poof!" about three weeks ago.

The really weird thing is, about a week before that, he did something that massively improved his signal readings. Even started getting KXDA/41 on RF 5!

His the only setup besides mine that I know ever picked up that station.
It's back. Must have seen my post.
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post #8857 of 9528 Old 05-31-2018, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKelley View Post
KXAS was running a crawl this morning that May 30 is the day it changes channels and OTA viewers will need to rescan. So it looks like the date for its accelerated move to RF24 will be then.
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I noticed yesterday KXAS 5's signal quality went back up to 100%. Looks like it happened about 8 AM. I think it's next Wed the 30th we get to re-scan for KXAS 5.
And I thought my no signal for KXAS last night and today was because of the wind . . .

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post #8858 of 9528 Old 05-31-2018, 08:54 PM
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KXAS 24.3 just doesn’t have a proper ring to it.
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post #8859 of 9528 Old 06-01-2018, 06:14 PM
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OK, as per my post above, KXAS was found by rescanning at the listed channel number, 24.3. I did a second rescan tonight just to check and now it’s showing KXAS at both old and new channel listings. Can someone explain to me why both 5.1 and 24.3? If moving to 24 as previously mentioned in the thread I assume they have to give up their 5.1 channel.

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post #8860 of 9528 Old 06-01-2018, 06:45 PM
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It's all a mirage. KXAS displays as 5.1, but it hasn't actually broadcast on channel 5 since 2009. This week, it moved from channel 41 to channel 24, but kept the 5.1 "virtual" channel number it's always had.

The method for scanning in a channel change like this depends on your tuner; but a lot of tuners will, if you enter an "unknown" channel/subchannel, treat those numbers as an RF channel and program ID (which is why RabbitEars.Info lists that data). Often, once you tune in a channel this way, the tuner will then load the station's virtual channel table, so it then shows up at the correct channel number (5.1 in this case) also.
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post #8861 of 9528 Old 06-01-2018, 07:12 PM
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Thank you, sir. It makes sense now. I now assume that I can go and select "Not shown" for the 24+ scan and continue to leave the 5+ as "Shown".
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post #8862 of 9528 Old 06-02-2018, 11:45 AM
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Yes; that sounds reasonable.
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post #8863 of 9528 Old 06-02-2018, 12:24 PM
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Everyone wants RF 7

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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Curiously, KVFW/38 has filed an application to move to RF 7! It would broadcast from Cedar Hill with a coverage area much larger than that proposed for K31GL, so if approved, I might just barely be able to get it; but the two stations' proposed coverage areas overlap, so they can't both be approved.

For purely selfish reasons I hope KVFW somehow wins this battle, since I have no chance whatsoever to receive K31GL under their proposed move; but I suspect K31GL will win simply because they filed first.
And now K25FW, owned by and longtime home of HSN, has applied for RF 7 too! The coverage area is smaller than KVFW, but if approved, most of the DFW metroplex could still receive it. Trouble is, well, it's HSN. And the current station on RF 25, at least, isn't even in HD (although HSN does have an HD version of their channel; you'd think they'd run HSN HD on 25.1 and HSN 2 on 25.2, but no.) So it's a big waste of bandwidth at present.

Only one of these transmitters can be approved, but I think the other two stations could squeeze on too, via channel sharing. You'd need HSN on 25.1 of course; plus K31GL's channels: SBN 31.1, HOT TV on 31.2 (assuming the latter isn't defunct by the time the channel lights up), and whatever the heck they had on 31.4; and finally, KVFW's channels: Retro TV on 38.3 and Rev'n on 38.4. That's only six, so even if HSN or SBN went HD, there'd be room for one or two of the usual infomercial channels as well. I don't know if these three stations are working out a channel sharing agreement, but I hope so.
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post #8864 of 9528 Old 07-02-2018, 03:20 PM
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Outdoor antenna for rural area

I live in a very rural area about 35 miles east of Dallas. I want to be able to get the over the air channels but don't know which outdoor, roof mounted, antenna would be best. I don't really wasnt to spend more than about $50 on an antenna. I see many motorized antennas and others that I would consider to be smaller than the old style, full size antennas. What would be the best antenna for me to buy. Other neighbors have the traditional old style antennas that seem to work fine. I just want something that will work. I do not plan on having to rotate the antenna so I do not need a motorized one

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
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post #8865 of 9528 Old 07-02-2018, 04:07 PM
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edit: (my post is no longer relevant as Dr Don moved the above post to proper area )

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post #8866 of 9528 Old 07-02-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
edit: (my post is no longer relevant as Dr Don moved the above post to proper area )
My question is more about which antenna would be best. I know the channels I can get. Do I get a full size older style antenna or one of the smaller outdoor antennas. I don't need motorized.
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post #8867 of 9528 Old 07-03-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fmitchelltx View Post
I live in a very rural area about 35 miles east of Dallas. I want to be able to get the over the air channels but don't know which outdoor, roof mounted, antenna would be best. I don't really want to spend more than about $50 on an antenna. I see many motorized antennas and others that I would consider to be smaller than the old style, full size antennas. What would be the best antenna for me to buy. Other neighbors have the traditional old style antennas that seem to work fine. I just want something that will work. I do not plan on having to rotate the antenna so I do not need a motorized one
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My question is more about which antenna would be best. I know the channels I can get. Do I get a full size older style antenna or one of the smaller outdoor antennas. I don't need motorized.
I agree you won't need a rotator, but my guess is that you'll still need more antenna than $50 will buy at your location. Nevertheless, if you could post a link to your TVFool.com report, so we could see what kinds of signal strengths we're looking at, it would help us help you.
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post #8868 of 9528 Old 07-03-2018, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmitchelltx View Post
My question is more about which antenna would be best. I know the channels I can get. Do I get a full size older style antenna or one of the smaller outdoor antennas. I don't need motorized.
I am a bit closer (guessing about half the distance) and use this Purchased at the local Fry's.
It works quite well for me mounted in the attic: (signal reports)
I suspect you would have trouble with the low power stations.
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post #8869 of 9528 Old 07-03-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I agree you won't need a rotator, but my guess is that you'll still need more antenna than $50 will buy at your location. Nevertheless, if you could post a link to your TVFool.com report, so we could see what kinds of signal strengths we're looking at, it would help us help you.
Thank y'all. I have found a full size outdoor antenna that I am going to purchase. Hopeflly I can cut back a little on the outrageous Directv bill each month.

Thanks again
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post #8870 of 9528 Old 07-03-2018, 10:44 PM
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If like my family where most of our viewing is network tv but some preferred shows are provided through cable networks (HGTV, ESPN with football, etc.) then you might be a candidate for a streaming service for just those channels or even Amazon Prime TV if you can wait a year or even purchase the specific program season.
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post #8871 of 9528 Old 07-04-2018, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
BTW it looks like we lost another live bandscan in the area: Bob Nelson's graphs all went "poof!" about three weeks ago.

The really weird thing is, about a week before that, he did something that massively improved his signal readings. Even started getting KXDA/41 on RF 5!

His the only setup besides mine that I know ever picked up that station. But apparently it's all gone now.

Nukeboy67's in Decatur has been out since the end of Jan., due to power line work near his antenna. Thought that would be done by now but still nothing.

Oh, well; we still have schultdw's in Arlington, and mine....

Oddly, his graphs record a couple of brief flashes on RF 21 after KWDA went down. I'm guessing they were actually for another station, possibly K21KJ in Mineral Wells coming in via tropo.
Don't worry, I got mine back up and running again. My pre amp failed and it was hard finding a decent one but I finally got one and plus I was also in the process of moving so that was fun too. Then my computer had failed so I had to wait for a new one and finally got that one in. I am now living in Arlington, but my apartment complex doesn’t allow for outside antennas, so I guess the bandscan will have to live on from Decatur for now.

Forecaster for Decatur, Texas Storm Team
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post #8872 of 9528 Old 07-05-2018, 01:15 PM
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I just checked and the Decatur bandscan is indeed working again. Congratulations! It sounds like it was one problem after another you had to deal with.

Bob's bandscan is still working too. So between us we have Arlington, Decatur, Frisco, and Garland covered.
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post #8873 of 9528 Old 07-05-2018, 06:15 PM
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The ATSC 3.0 SFN is supposed to light up any day now.
Quote:
Baumgartner observed that the final transmission gear should be in place in Denton by the end of June and ready to go. “Everything seems on track, and we expect to light the SFN up on the Fourth of July when we have the connectivity.”
Quote:
He observed the initial DFW SFN trial calls for the airing of programming from Cunningham Communication’s KTXD-TV outlet (RF Ch. 46) and UniMás’s KSTR-DT (RF Ch. 48). (Sinclair has no broadcast properties in the DFW market). Starke noted that since both stations fall above the latest TV broadcast spectrum upper bound, they will be moving to lower channels (RF Ch. 34 & 23) as the nationwide repack initiative reaches the DFW market. (Interestingly, there’s another television operation mixed into the broadband antenna shared by the KTXD-TV and KSTR-DT SFN transmitters, and this one—Ch. 56 (722-728 MHz)—will not be moving as it’s owned by Dish Network, which secured this slot in the earlier 700 MHz spectrum auction.)

“These will be the stations converting to 3.0, and we’ll have a hosting station down in Cedar Hill [the principle DFW TV transmitter location] to keep their 1.0 signals on the air,” said Starke.
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/d...ars-completion
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post #8874 of 9528 Old 07-06-2018, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I just checked and the Decatur bandscan is indeed working again. Congratulations! It sounds like it was one problem after another you had to deal with.

Bob's bandscan is still working too. So between us we have Arlington, Decatur, Frisco, and Garland covered.
The Decatur location is actually the best for me because I can receive Sherman/Denison, Wichita Falls/Lawton and Dallas/Fort Worth from that location. If I moved it to Arlington, it wouldn't be as fun to see three different markets show up on one bandscan. BTW, I am also receiving a new LP out of Wichita Falls called K26NK-D. According to RabbitEars, that is a KERA translator up there. I remember when K44GS was the translator for KERA up there. I wonder why they switched channels.

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post #8875 of 9528 Old 07-06-2018, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by nukeboy67 View Post
The Decatur location is actually the best for me because I can receive Sherman/Denison, Wichita Falls/Lawton and Dallas/Fort Worth from that location. If I moved it to Arlington, it wouldn't be as fun to see three different markets show up on one bandscan. BTW, I am also receiving a new LP out of Wichita Falls called K26NK-D. According to RabbitEars, that is a KERA translator up there. I remember when K44GS was the translator for KERA up there. I wonder why they switched channels.


Same station. K44GS applied for a license to cover for the move to the channel 26 facilities a few weeks ago. When TV or FM translators change channels, their call letters change since their calls have the channel number in the calls. So, K44GS is now K26NK.


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post #8876 of 9528 Old 07-06-2018, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan Cannon View Post
The ATSC 3.0 SFN is supposed to light up any day now.
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/d...ars-completion
The article didn't reveal what RF frequency the SFN will use for testing, but there was a clue:
Quote:
“We purposely picked three different types of existing tower sites for this trial installation. The tower in Garland is a small guyed tower with a 40-inch face [and home to cellular service and a low-power FM station].
That LPFM has to be K240DS (95.9 MHz), and the antenna is only 1.3 miles east of my house. So I should be bathed in their signal. Of course, I don't have an ATSC 3.0 receiver (and almost no one in the US does at this point), but I'll be on the lookout for very high signal strength readings on an unused UHF channel.
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The Decatur location is actually the best for me because I can receive Sherman/Denison, Wichita Falls/Lawton and Dallas/Fort Worth from that location. If I moved it to Arlington, it wouldn't be as fun to see three different markets show up on one bandscan. BTW, I am also receiving a new LP out of Wichita Falls called K26NK-D. According to RabbitEars, that is a KERA translator up there. I remember when K44GS was the translator for KERA up there. I wonder why they switched channels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKelley View Post
Same station. K44GS applied for a license to cover for the move to the channel 26 facilities a few weeks ago. When TV or FM translators change channels, their call letters change since their calls have the channel number in the calls. So, K44GS is now K26NK.
K44GS was forced to move from RF 44 early because T-Mobile has already started operating their 600 MHz network in the Wichita Falls area. Same reason KXAS moved from RF 41 early. My understanding is that T-Mobile actually helped pay for both moves: KERA because they're a public TV station and just kicking them off would've been pretty bad publicity, and KXAS because they didn't have to move before repacking phase 3.
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post #8877 of 9528 Old 07-07-2018, 03:30 AM
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The article didn't reveal what RF frequency the SFN will use for testing.
It did: "This Dielectric combiner being used in the DFW SFN trial is currently tuned for TV Channels 46, 48, and 56, but like other gear selected, is frequency-agile and will eventually be retuned to frequencies assigned in the market’s repack." And: “These will be the stations converting to 3.0, and we’ll have a hosting station down in Cedar Hill [the principle DFW TV transmitter location] to keep their 1.0 signals on the air,” said Starke.

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post #8878 of 9528 Old 07-07-2018, 02:47 PM
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That was a photo caption, but the article gave a bit more detail further down:
Quote:
As constructed, in addition to a transmitter and ATSC 3.0 encoder/exciter, there’s also a large combiner/filter network to allow multiple TV carriers to share the broadband antenna.

“We keep talking about these sites as a trial test, but we’re actually building them out to go commercial,” said Starke. “It isn’t going to be build, test, and then tear down. They will eventually go commercial. Depending on ERP or antenna input power, each could handle up to possibly 10 to 12 stations.”

He observed the initial DFW SFN trial calls for the airing of programming from Cunningham Communication’s KTXD-TV outlet (RF Ch. 46) and UniMás’s KSTR-DT (RF Ch. 48). (Sinclair has no broadcast properties in the DFW market). Starke noted that since both stations fall above the latest TV broadcast spectrum upper bound, they will be moving to lower channels (RF Ch. 34 & 23) as the nationwide repack initiative reaches the DFW market. (Interestingly, there’s another television operation mixed into the broadband antenna shared by the KTXD-TV and KSTR-DT SFN transmitters, and this one—Ch. 56 (722-728 MHz)—will not be moving as it’s owned by Dish Network, which secured this slot in the earlier 700 MHz spectrum auction.)
Those are currently ATSC 1.0 channels (well, except of course RF 56, which the article said is owned by Dish although I don't know what they're doing with it - the article called it a "television operation" but nothing more specific) and AFAIK those channels have never gone off the air, even briefly.

I didn't find the article entirely clear, but the impression I got from the quote above was that the combiner in the photo (and presumably similar equipment at the other SFN sites) would be used to combine those signals so they can all share one antenna when KTXD and KSTR convert to ATSC 3.0 "for real." (That would also imply that KTXD and KSTR will convert to ATSC 3.0 before repacking; hence the need to tune the combiner to RF 46 and 48 for now, then retune it to the new frequencies when repacking happens. If so, channel sharing on KDAF and KUVN will begin earlier than the phase 3 repacking timeline.)

I figured a different frequency would be used for the test to avoid disrupting existing broadcasts. But now that you mention it, I checked and see a small drop in SQ on RF 46 which began around 11 AM Thurs., 7/5. Could that be interference from the tower near my home? Are they running an ATSC 3.0 test on RF 46 while simultaneously broadcasting on the same frequency in ATSC 1.0 from Cedar Hill? Doesn't seem like that would be a very useful test.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 07-07-2018 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Add more context to quote
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post #8879 of 9528 Old 07-12-2018, 10:27 AM
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In Dallas, Spectrum Co. has placed 100-kilowatt SFN transmitters in three different sites to supplement two 1-megawatt 3.0 transmitters broadcasting off two tall towers. (One of the SFN transmitters will be operating at a slightly lower ERP to avoid local interference.)

The stations that will be turning off ATSC 1.0 to launch 3.0 include Univision’s KSTR, a UniMas affiliate, and Cunningham Broadcasting’s KTXD, an independent.

The 1.0 programming from those stations will then be channel-shared across several stations including Univision’s KUVN and Tribune’s KDAF (CW).

Dish Network is also participating in the trial and in April began broadcasting 3.0 on ch. 56 spectrum it acquired in the 700 MHz spectrum auction. The Spectrum Co. stations are still working through contractual agreements and regulatory requirements but should begin 3.0 broadcasts in September, with KSTR going first.
https://tvnewscheck.com/article/top-...ay-not-enough/
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post #8880 of 9528 Old 07-12-2018, 06:38 PM
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Just to emphasize the most important (IMO) part:
Quote:
Dish Network is also participating in the trial and in April began broadcasting 3.0 on ch. 56 spectrum it acquired in the 700 MHz spectrum auction. The Spectrum Co. stations are still working through contractual agreements and regulatory requirements but should begin 3.0 broadcasts in September, with KSTR going first.
So:

  1. Dish is already broadcasting ATSC 3.0 in DFW, on RF 56 (although it's probably an encrypted, subscription-only service, a la Airbox). I wonder what it is, how much it costs, and whether the receiver can pick up other ATSC 3.0 brodcasts, such as:
  2. KSTR/49 and KTXD/47 will switch to 3.0 this September, well before the big repack, requiring ATSC 1.0 viewers (virtually all OTA viewers) to rescan to pick up their new ATSC 1.0 broadcasts (shared with KUVN/23 and KDAF/33, respectively).

Regarding #2 , earlier I speculated that KTXD would drop Stadium (47.1) to SD in order to fit everything in. But the FCC regulation requires the ATSC 1.0 signal to contain "substantially similar" content to the ATSC 3.0 signal. I take that to mean they won't drop either the resolution or any subchannels of KTXD/47 (except maybe SBN on 47.5, which is already available on KFWD/52 anyway) on the newly-shared KDAF/KTXD signal. But Antenna and This are both popular subchannels, and they certainly won't drop CW (33.1) to SD! (They might drop it to 720p though.)

But two HD channels and five SD subchannels on a single ATSC 1.0 signal is still a very tight fit. I'll be fascinated to learn how they manage it. It looks like we don't have long to wait though.
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