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post #8941 of 9481 Old 10-28-2018, 02:42 PM
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KHPK is still on the air, although with sharply lower signal strength at my location: https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_...tuner0/KHPK-LD
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post #8942 of 9481 Old 10-28-2018, 03:02 PM
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Wow. It's so weak now, I'm not receiving it at all on RF 10.

Either way, it looks like they may have reduced power for tower work, possibly for KNAV/22's new antenna covering more of the metroplex: https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=47898

KNAV is off the air too. Also, their new construction permit is for digital service. The era of analog broadcasting in D/FW may finally have come to an end (unless you count KZFW's FrankenFM on RF 6).

Edit: Found the following at the FCC:
Quote:
HC2 LPTV Holdings, Inc. (“HC2”) respectfully requests Special Temporary Authority (“STA”) to remain silent for a period of up to six months while repairs are facilitated for this Low Power Television (“LPTV”) station. The transmitter has been damaged by lightning and the licensee is working diligently to facilitate the replacement and repair of the required parts for this transmitter.
So KNAV is off the air due to lightning damage, probably incurred during the storms last Wednesday. Still, I can't see them making a direct repair of their analog transmitter if they're just going to replace it with a digital one a few months later. So I suspect they'll be off the air until their digital transmitter is ready to light up.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 10-28-2018 at 07:43 PM.
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post #8943 of 9481 Old 10-29-2018, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schultdw View Post
KHPK is still on the air, although with sharply lower signal strength at my location: https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_...tuner0/KHPK-LD
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Wow. It's so weak now, I'm not receiving it at all on RF 10.

Either way, it looks like they may have reduced power for tower work, possibly for KNAV/22's new antenna covering more of the metroplex: https://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=47898
At about 9:35 PM today, it appears to have finally shut down completely. So now it sounds more like an equipment failure than voluntarily reducing power for tower work. Maybe that lightning strike damaged both KNAV/22's and KHPK/28's transmitters, but they hung on for a few days before bowing to the inevitable and shutting down....
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post #8944 of 9481 Old 10-30-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
After about 15 min watching it with no problems, I am seeing and hearing glitches too. So it isn't just you.
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Originally Posted by nukeboy67 View Post
I have been having glitches over the past week after having a pretty steady signal as well. I noticed this on my RabbitEars graph.

For a while it has had brief stuck frames, audio drop outs and occasional pauses. This morning it had some occasional horizontal black bar glitches as well. But signal strength is at 100 and quality is around 91-94, with no significant drops in quality.
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post #8945 of 9481 Old 11-01-2018, 01:00 PM
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There's something I can't figure out

Just reviewing RabbitEars.info's station listings for the DFW market. As a result of repacking, there are three frequencies being contested by multiple, incompatible applications for construction permits:


RF 7 makes some sense to me. The four applications all interfere with each other, so only one can be built. All four are listed as "pending" at the FCC. Presumably the FCC will pick one at some point and deny the other three.

But the RF 11 and RF 22 applications have the same problem as the RF 7 ones; yet all are listed as "granted?"

KUVN-CD has priority over the other two RF 11 applicants since they're a Class A station and the others are LPTVs; so was granting the others just a mistake?

On RF 22, KNAV is the "incumbent," but their current transmitter (analog; recently shut down) only covers Dallas, IIRC; it could coexist with KGSW's application. But KNAV's application to go digital also significantly expands their coverage area to include Ft. Worth; that could not coexist with KGSW's application. Yet both show "granted?"

Last edited by JHBrandt; 11-01-2018 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Added links to RabbitEars's contour maps
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post #8946 of 9481 Old 11-01-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Just reviewing RabbitEars.info's station listings for the DFW market. As a result of repacking, there are three frequencies being contested by multiple, incompatible applications for construction permits:




  • K25FW, K31GL, KVFW, and K31MU all want RF 7
  • KQFW, K21KJ, and KUVN-CD all want RF 11
  • KGSW and KNAV both want RF 22



RF 7 makes some sense to me. The four applications all interfere with each other, so only one can be built. All four are listed as "pending" at the FCC. Presumably the FCC will pick one at some point and deny the other three.



But the RF 11 and RF 22 applications have the same problem as the RF 7 ones; yet all are listed as "granted?"



KUVN-CD has priority over the other two RF 11 applicants since they're a Class A station and the others are LPTVs; so was granting the others just a mistake?



On RF 22, KNAV is the "incumbent," but their current transmitter (analog; recently shut down) only covers Dallas, IIRC; it could coexist with KGSW's application. But KNAV's application to go digital also significantly expands their coverage area to include Ft. Worth; that could not coexist with KGSW's application. Yet both show "granted?"


Full power KFWD and KCEN on the same channel (RF9) also have a huge overlap in predicted contours, but FCC granted it and they’ve coexisted that way. It may be the FCC grants some of these that have some overlap.


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post #8947 of 9481 Old 11-01-2018, 02:54 PM
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A bit of overlap is probably OK. That's the case with KFWD and KCEN; there's a "dead zone" in between where neither station can be received without a very directional antenna pointed at whichever station is stronger. Luckily few folks live in the dead zone. Similarly, KQFW and K21KJ could probably coexist with only a little mutual interference, if KUVN-CD weren't in the mix. I'm pretty sure KGSW and KNAV could also coexist if KNAV sticks with their current antenna instead of replacing it.

But most of these cases are pathological: if multiple stations tried to light up, big parts of the metroplex would get no coverage from either station, so I don't think coexistence is possible. (I added links to coverage maps to my post above, so you can see how badly they overlap.)

I remember back during the 2009 transition, the FCC made a mistake and put KPFW on RF 18, where KTXA was at the time. When KPFW tried to light up, neither station could be received over most of Dallas. KPFW had to shut down until KTXA got relocated to RF 29.

This time, these are all low-power stations with few viewers, so the consequences won't be so dire; OTOH, this time there won't be any open frequencies for stations to go to, so some of these LPTVs could find themselves stuck with "white elephant" transmitters they can't use, unless things get sorted out beforehand

The obvious solution is channel sharing, but first everyone needs to know which transmitters are going to be built and which aren't.

(BTW, there's a conflict on RF 4, too, but it looks like it will be "solved" by KHFW simply not lighting up. KHFW has never been on the air, and gave KWDA explicit permission to "interfere" with KHFW's nonexistent transmissions.)
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post #8948 of 9481 Old 11-01-2018, 05:53 PM
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On channel 11, KUVN-CD filed first. The other two applications are grantable as long as they do not cause more than 0.5% interference to KUVN-CD, even if they receive 100% interference.

Channel 22 is similar; KNAV-LP expanded first before the displacement window, and then KGSW-LD filed after during the displacement window. Same story; if they don't cause more than 2% interference (the difference is Class A versus LPTV) to KNAV-LP, the application is grantable, again, since KNAV-LP was there first and KGSW-LD can accept up to 100% interference if they want.

Channel 7 is different because they all filed at the same time in the displacement window. They need to settle, accept interference, or go to auction.

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post #8949 of 9481 Old 11-02-2018, 12:48 PM
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As usual, a clear, concise explanation; thanks Trip!

So if both transmitters go online, KGSW's will probably just gnaw a "divot" out of KNAV's coverage contour, but KGSW's coverage area will probably end up being considerably smaller than their coverage map indicates. Probably just a small area around Keene.

But now I wonder why KGSW doesn't ask the FCC if they can turn their antenna around and try to reach areas east-southeast, instead of pointing it north and just getting drowned out by KNAV? Maybe they had their app prepared before they saw KNAV's request to expand, and just weren't able to get a modified app filed before the filing window closed?

I also wonder if there's any software that predicts ATSC 1.0 coverage contours when interfering stations like this exist.
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post #8950 of 9481 Old 11-02-2018, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
At about 9:35 PM today, [KHPK] appears to have finally shut down completely. So now it sounds more like an equipment failure than voluntarily reducing power for tower work. Maybe that lightning strike damaged both KNAV/22's and KHPK/28's transmitters, but they hung on for a few days before bowing to the inevitable and shutting down....
Looks like they're going to be off the air for a while. KHPK filed a silent STA today:
Quote:
The transmitter needs to be repaired due to errors. The transmitter vendor and local engineer are working diligently to facilitate a quick repair in order to resume full operations expeditiously.
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post #8951 of 9481 Old 11-02-2018, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
As usual, a clear, concise explanation; thanks Trip!

So if both transmitters go online, KGSW's will probably just gnaw a "divot" out of KNAV's coverage contour, but KGSW's coverage area will probably end up being considerably smaller than their coverage map indicates. Probably just a small area around Keene.

But now I wonder why KGSW doesn't ask the FCC if they can turn their antenna around and try to reach areas east-southeast, instead of pointing it north and just getting drowned out by KNAV? Maybe they had their app prepared before they saw KNAV's request to expand, and just weren't able to get a modified app filed before the filing window closed?
They can still modify their permit before going on the air with it. Because you're right, it will probably have very little coverage.

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I also wonder if there's any software that predicts ATSC 1.0 coverage contours when interfering stations like this exist.
TVStudy does that. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...l#post55084424

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post #8952 of 9481 Old 11-03-2018, 01:05 PM
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Anyone else having any reception issues with Fox (channel 4.1) today? Getting periodic loss of signal. Things have been pretty stable for a few weeks for me. Trying to determine if it the reception or my PLEX server.
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post #8953 of 9481 Old 11-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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Check out what LOCAST offers for the Dallas area. Free streaming of local channels. (Also on Roku)


https://www.locast.org/markets/?dma=623


www.locast.org/

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post #8954 of 9481 Old 11-12-2018, 02:14 PM
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So it streams our local OTA stations, paid for by voluntary donations. That might be useful for folks who live in the Metroplex but can't erect an adequate TV antenna (apartment dwellers for instance).
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post #8955 of 9481 Old 11-14-2018, 01:26 PM
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KPFW/18 went off the air at 2:15 PM today. Don't see any FCC filings so there's no way to know if this is a short-term or long-term shutdown.

Its coverage area is limited so most folks don't receive it anyway. Still, that's three LPTV stations (KHPK, KNAV, and KPFW) that have gone off the air in just the last few weeks.

Edit: Looks like it was temporary. KPFW got back on the air at 3:45, so it was only off for an hour and a half.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 11-14-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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post #8956 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 09:07 AM
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Issue with NBC 5-1 KXASDT

Is there a problem with 5-1 KXASDT ?

In particular:
With Directv and a Local antenna with the OTA Tuner having problems with the NBC local feed?

It has not been available for nearly 3 months and I am hesitant to call Directv as they no longer make the OTA equipment.
I have 2 Receivers with the OTA Tuner and neither one is getting the NBC feed.

I have tried rebooting and that does not work.
The notice says : (771) signal loss on the off-air tuner (792)

Thanks,
Greg
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post #8957 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by yankee14 View Post
Is there a problem with 5-1 KXASDT ?

In particular:
With Directv and a Local antenna with the OTA Tuner having problems with the NBC local feed?
Watching the news on KXAS 5.1 now as I type. OTA with an antenna. 100% signal, no problems.



Back in June KXAS changed the frequency they broadcast on. Has it been that long? Maybe you need to do a re-scan.
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post #8958 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 10:58 AM
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I tried a reboot twice, will try and see if there is another method to rescan the channels.

Thanks, good to know the channel is working and it is on my end to fix.

Greg
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post #8959 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 11:08 AM
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Not familiar with that receiver, but I would think channel re-scanning or adding new channels should be a menu option.
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post #8960 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 06:14 PM
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It sounds like the DirecTV OTA tuner (AM21?) still thinks KXAS is on RF 41. As Ed mentioned it moved to RF 24 several months ago.

If you can't find a way to rescan, it could be that the AM21 relies on guide info from DirecTV to find local channels, instead of scanning for them. If that's the case, you'll need to call DirecTV to get them to fix their guide.

Or you could just wait until mid-2019, when KXAS was originally scheduled to move, and when many other stations in DFW will move. DirecTV will probably fix the guide then on their own.
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post #8961 of 9481 Old 11-19-2018, 06:29 PM
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The way the old AM21 worked was you had to scan for the stations and then they got matched against the database as to what got displayed. Many of us watched more stations than in the local market DB by finding zip codes that contained the other stations from the DB and adding thise zips in the setup as secondary markets (you could add multiple "secondary markets"). It was a hack and resulted in incorrect guide data for those stations but at least you could tune them in.

So if you haven't rescaned since May when the station changed you need to rescan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
It sounds like the DirecTV OTA tuner (AM21?) still thinks KXAS is on RF 41. As Ed mentioned it moved to RF 24 several months ago.

If you can't find a way to rescan, it could be that the AM21 relies on guide info from DirecTV to find local channels, instead of scanning for them. If that's the case, you'll need to call DirecTV to get them to fix their guide.

Or you could just wait until mid-2019, when KXAS was originally scheduled to move, and when many other stations in DFW will move. DirecTV will probably fix the guide then on their own.
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post #8962 of 9481 Old 11-23-2018, 04:45 PM
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D/FW stations dropping like flies

At 4:40 PM today, KFWD/52 and low-power KBOP/20 both went off the air at the same time.

KHPK/28 is still off the air since they died back on 11/1.

KNAV/22 has been off the air even longer, but at least they have an excuse (upgrading to digital and expanding their coverage).

WTF? Don't blame the repack. None of these stations are affected (well, KHPK was, but they did their move months ago).

Edit: Both KFWD/52 and KBOP/20 came back on shortly after 8 PM today. I guess there was a power outage that somehow affected both transmitters.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 11-23-2018 at 06:30 PM.
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post #8963 of 9481 Old 11-25-2018, 11:12 PM
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I realized that a rescan (Red Button) did not really change the signal strength, for whatever reason.
I rebuilt the list for the Antenna mode and that worked.
The only issue I have now is a weak signal at times from PBS 13.1, the signal strength ranges from 45-55 percent.
Rarely watch the channel so I am ok with it.

Thanks to everyone,

Greg
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post #8964 of 9481 Old 11-26-2018, 12:11 PM
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I realized that a rescan (Red Button) did not really change the signal strength, for whatever reason.
I rebuilt the list for the Antenna mode and that worked.
Glad you figured it out! You'll need to do that again next summer when the repack happens in D/FW.
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The only issue I have now is a weak signal at times from PBS 13.1, the signal strength ranges from 45-55 percent.
Rarely watch the channel so I am ok with it.
PBS had the misfortune to wind up on RF 14; to avoid interference with non-TV users just below 470 MHz, they need a more stringent filter than most stations. This filter affects their signal quality on some tuners.

Also, some antennas don't work as well at the low end of the UHF band.
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post #8965 of 9481 Old 11-27-2018, 11:34 AM
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The only issue I have now is a weak signal at times from PBS 13.1, the signal strength ranges from 45-55 percent.
Rarely watch the channel so I am ok with it.

Thanks to everyone,

Greg

I've noticed 13 going in and out more. I watch a few programs, but I'm dissatisfied with KERA's choice to take away the PBS world channel from their digital sub-channels. 13.1 has way too much children's programming, when you consider they now have an entire sub-channel dedicated to children.

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post #8966 of 9481 Old 11-27-2018, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See The Light View Post
I've noticed 13 going in and out more.
Changes in reception during the fall can be caused by trees dropping their leaves and letting more signal through. Usually that helps reception, but it could also hurt reception at some frequencies by letting signals reach your antenna from multiple directions, causing multipath interference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by See The Light View Post
I watch a few programs, but I'm dissatisfied with KERA's choice to take away the PBS World channel from their digital sub-channels. 13.1 has way too much children's programming, when you consider they now have an entire sub-channel dedicated to children.
I agree; unless it's just a matter of economics, I can't understand that decision. Crazy as it sounds, it would have made more sense to have dropped the main channel and broadcast only World (in HD), Kids, and Create! At least that way they'd always have something on the air for everybody.

If the idea behind Kids was to give kids something to watch during prime time and/or weekends, KERA could set up 13.2 to run Kids during those times (6 PM-10 PM weekdays and 6 AM-10 PM weekends), and World the rest of the time. That way kids would get plenty of programming on either 13.1 or 13.2, but at least adults would always have something to watch too.
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post #8967 of 9481 Old 11-28-2018, 10:57 AM
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In my case, the taller trees between me and the towers are evergreens. I'll keep looking for work-arounds, as mounting a TV antenna on the roof is the last thing I want to do, for various reasons...

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post #8968 of 9481 Old 11-28-2018, 12:06 PM
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In the attic works well. I've done that in the past couple houses and this one. Get a "size larger" than the sites like antennaweb.org recommend!

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In my case, the taller trees between me and the towers are evergreens. I'll keep looking for work-arounds, as mounting a TV antenna on the roof is the last thing I want to do, for various reasons...
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post #8969 of 9481 Old 11-28-2018, 05:19 PM
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"Panel" antennas like the ClearStream 4MAX or the CM-4228HD work well in the attic, in my experience.
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post #8970 of 9481 Old 12-03-2018, 09:10 PM
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So why would my OTA reception in flower mound improve when the only thing that changed is moving from my g15 2009 Panasonic plasma to an lg oled 65” c8? I could always get a decent reception on cbs and fox but not on nbc or abc. Much better now. Thoughts?
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