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post #9601 of 9661 Old 11-07-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Many apartment complexes have their own "private cable" systems, and yes, they do charge for you to subscribe to them. They have to pay for the programming, of course, but I suspect it's profitable for many landlords. Other complexes may have "deals" with the local cable company. Either case gives them more incentive to try to ban antennas - and the cable company isn't likely to mention that banning OTA or satellite antennas is illegal.AIUI, they have to allow an antenna "good enough" to permit reception of stations within their broadcast area. If an indoor antenna doesn't do the job even when mounted outdoors, then they have to let you install a better one.
This evening Channel 11 aired a news story about people in apartment complexes getting slammed for cable bills that they never wanted. What's happening is those in control of the complexes are moving to "bulk billing" which includes whatever amenities the complex provides. These range from pest control to cable. When current residents sign a new lease they get slammed with the unexpected charges. The owners of the apartment complex has clearly worked out a deal with a local cable company and/or Internet provider. According to the news story, one owner of several apartment complexes made millions last year from mandatory cable billing. Those that didn't want it had to move. So now it is also apparent that free, OTA television is a potentially big financial risk for the complex owners. But on the flip side, it also seems like it would make for an excellent case to test the concept of the law prohibiting the placement of antennas. These apartment complexes aren't prohibiting antennas because they are ugly, pose a danger, etc. They are prohibiting--in violation of the law, the placement of antennas because permitting them would potentially hit them in the pocketbook. Yeah, that would be an interesting case, to be sure.
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post #9602 of 9661 Old 11-08-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Well, they made it another five days, then this evening the springwerk snapped again and they're off the air once more.

This is beginning to look a lot like KVFW....
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Originally Posted by schultdw View Post
They were off (actually just at greatly reduced power) for only about 12 hours this time.
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post #9603 of 9661 Old 11-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jd8000 View Post
I'm curious what happens if/when KHFD ever comes back on air. Stations are prohibited from using the same major channel number as another stations within a market....
FWIW, the KPTD simulcast is now missing from KDTN's signal. My DTVPal now reads "no service" on 51-1.

I don't see any new FCC filings for KPTD, but before they decided to piggyback on KDTN's signal, they had filed a displacement to RF 19 for their Paris transmitter. Assuming there's no filing freeze at the FCC, maybe they're about to file to move back to their old facility, if they expect to be back on the air within a year.

BTW, I never understood how they ended up with virtual channel 51 when they were sharing with KDTN. Their old facility was on RF 49, and it was analog, so that should've been their virtual channel AIUI. Of course 49 is in use here too, so they couldn't have used that number either, but how they came up with 51 as the alternative is a complete mystery to me.
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post #9604 of 9661 Old 11-09-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
FWIW, the KPTD simulcast is now missing from KDTN's signal. My DTVPal now reads "no service" on 51-1.

I don't see any new FCC filings for KPTD, but before they decided to piggyback on KDTN's signal, they had filed a displacement to RF 19 for their Paris transmitter. Assuming there's no filing freeze at the FCC, maybe they're about to file to move back to their old facility, if they expect to be back on the air within a year.

BTW, I never understood how they ended up with virtual channel 51 when they were sharing with KDTN. Their old facility was on RF 49, and it was analog, so that should've been their virtual channel AIUI. Of course 49 is in use here too, so they couldn't have used that number either, but how they came up with 51 as the alternative is a complete mystery to me.
I think KDTN has been having issues with their encoder all week. Sometimes they were broadcasting in SD with no PSIPs, sometimes they were broadcasting in HD with just the KDTN PSIP like they are now, before returning to normal the next day. Will have to see what happens on Monday.

Monday Edit: Back to normal. PSIP is back to KDTN-DT, and the KPTD-LD subchannel has returned.
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post #9605 of 9661 Old 11-09-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by east-tx-tv View Post
So, is the current RabbitEars list of channels the actual current list for DFW, or is there another (and better?) list online (I guess Wikipedia could be included) ?

Rabbitears TV market listings are factual data. Wikipedia might have errors.

BTW, if there is someone in the DFW TV market that has the ability to tune the TV stations with a network attached tuner or USB DTV stick/dongle, the Rabbitears listings need to be updated. You need a PC tuner with antenna attached and TSReader software to perform HTML exports. The more stations you can tune in the better the TV market is represented with factual information.

If you want to help out and have TSReader in your Windows PC, here is a help page for performing the HTML captures-
http://www.wtfda.info/tsidinfo.htm

Here is the link to the Dallas/Fort Worth TV market listings-
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=5

The Rabbitears contact page can be found here-
https://www.rabbitears.info/static.php?name=contact

Antennas - Antennacraft MXU59 UHF antenna & home-brew version of Antennacraft VHF Y-10-7-13 antenna @ 25'. Both antennas fed through a Channel Master 7777 30dB pre-amp.
Tuners - Zenith DTT901 converter box; AirSpy HF+ sdr; Silicon Dust HDHomerun Dual ATSC tuner, using Rabbitears autologger support.

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post #9606 of 9661 Old 11-11-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
This evening Channel 11 aired a news story about people in apartment complexes getting slammed for cable bills that they never wanted. What's happening is those in control of the complexes are moving to "bulk billing" which includes whatever amenities the complex provides. These range from pest control to cable.
I would pretty much expect pest control to be included in my rent! (Have you seen apartment rents lately? And yet they want to charge extra for something as basic as pest control? )

As for cable, if the complex is charging you for cable whether you use it or not, at least they're getting your money whether or not you have an OTA antenna, so they have less incentive to complain if you do. So perhaps they'd be more lenient. But, you may ask, why would I want an OTA antenna if I have cable?

  1. You may like an OTA subchannel or two that isn't carried on the cable system your landlord picked out for you.
  2. In the digital era, OTA picture quality is generally superior to cable. (It was the other way around in the analog era, of course.)
  3. ATSC 1.0 broadcasts are free of any "digital rights management" nonsense. That is generally not true of cable, even with local stations (it gives the cable cos. a way to deactivate service without sending out a truck to physically disconnect the cable). So even if you have a DVR that will tune cable signals, you may not be able to use it.
  4. Finally, "spats" between cable cos. and TV networks are not uncommon. If your cable co. has a "spat" with, say, CBS, an OTA antenna will be the only way for you to get KTVT and KTXA until the cable co. and CBS kiss and make up.
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post #9607 of 9661 Old 11-11-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mrradiohead55 View Post
Rabbitears TV market listings are factual data. Wikipedia might have errors.

BTW, if there is someone in the DFW TV market that has the ability to tune the TV stations with a network attached tuner or USB DTV stick/dongle, the Rabbitears listings need to be updated. You need a PC tuner with antenna attached and TSReader software to perform HTML exports. The more stations you can tune in the better the TV market is represented with factual information.

If you want to help out and have TSReader in your Windows PC, here is a help page for performing the HTML captures-
http://www.wtfda.info/tsidinfo.htm

Here is the link to the Dallas/Fort Worth TV market listings-
https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=5

The Rabbitears contact page can be found here-
https://www.rabbitears.info/static.php?name=contact
Sent you & Trip an email with my TSReader exports. Contains all DFW stations except KXDA (VHF-Low, maybe JHBrandt can help with that one), K26KC (station is offline anyway), and K22NR & K26OL (they're further west of the metroplex, don't think anyone active in this topic receives them).
Also contains KTEN and KXII up in Sherman/Ada (You'll need to find someone near Paris, TX for KXIP & K15AA, and someone near Ardmore, OK for KCYH, K36KE, and maybe K27MV).
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post #9608 of 9661 Old 11-11-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I would pretty much expect pest control to be included in my rent! (Have you seen apartment rents lately? And yet they want to charge extra for something as basic as pest control?
I would too, especially in an apartment complex. But apparently the powers that be in apartment complexes have learned well from cable, satellite, phone and Internet providers. You have the base charge, i.e. rent. Then you have all the charges that nickel and dime you to death but can't escape. In essence, there is no limit to the off-beat funky charges they could add to your bill. They could even placate you by "lowering" your rent by $50 a month while still charging $100 a month for your mandatory cable and parking spot vacuuming fee.

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As for cable, if the complex is charging you for cable whether you use it or not, at least they're getting your money whether or not you have an OTA antenna, so they have less incentive to complain if you do. So perhaps they'd be more lenient. But, you may ask, why would I want an OTA antenna if I have cable?
I have family in a small town in the Ozarks in Missouri. For whatever reason, basic cable seems to be free for the whole town. You simply connect the coax to your TV and scan the cable option. No cable box, no monthly charge and the picture quality is about as low as it can get. But hey, it's free! There are some city-run municipal channels, so providing them may be the reason basic cable is free...and low picture quality.
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post #9609 of 9661 Old 11-11-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PlnOTA View Post
Sent you & Trip an email with my TSReader exports. Contains all DFW stations except KXDA (VHF-Low, maybe JHBrandt can help with that one), K26KC (station is offline anyway), and K22NR & K26OL (they're further west of the metroplex, don't think anyone active in this topic receives them).
Also contains KTEN and KXII up in Sherman/Ada (You'll need to find someone near Paris, TX for KXIP & K15AA, and someone near Ardmore, OK for KCYH, K36KE, and maybe K27MV).
Sorry folks, TSReader Lite just locks up on my PC. Not even the Help menu works!
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post #9610 of 9661 Old 11-13-2019, 10:21 AM
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I set up a Winegard Elite 7550 outdoors and got crap for reception before I realized I was aimed about 10 degrees off from the towers...now reception is solid from East Dallas.
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post #9611 of 9661 Old 11-13-2019, 05:37 PM
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Sorry folks, TSReader Lite just locks up on my PC. Not even the Help menu works!
OK after much frustration I finally got TSReader Lite working, and think I have it figured out. Attaching what I got for KXDA.
Attached Files
File Type: zip KXDA 41 Dallas.zip (2.7 KB, 8 views)
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post #9612 of 9661 Old 11-13-2019, 05:45 PM
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JHBrandt, KXDA file looks good.

Antennas - Antennacraft MXU59 UHF antenna & home-brew version of Antennacraft VHF Y-10-7-13 antenna @ 25'. Both antennas fed through a Channel Master 7777 30dB pre-amp.
Tuners - Zenith DTT901 converter box; AirSpy HF+ sdr; Silicon Dust HDHomerun Dual ATSC tuner, using Rabbitears autologger support.
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post #9613 of 9661 Old 11-13-2019, 06:02 PM
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OK after much frustration I finally got TSReader Lite working, and think I have it figured out. Attaching what I got for KXDA.
Looks great. Thank you!

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #9614 of 9661 Old 11-15-2019, 06:47 PM
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Hmm... looks like KSTR turned off their ATSC 3.0 signal at midnight last night.

Looks like they had trouble with it Monday so they may have it off to make repairs.
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post #9615 of 9661 Old 11-16-2019, 12:13 AM
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Hmm... looks like KSTR turned off their ATSC 3.0 signal at midnight last night.

Looks like they had trouble with it Monday so they may have it off to make repairs.
That's interesting. I was going to ask if any stations were doing some weird things with their signals. This evening (Friday) my DVR+, which is set for automatic date and time rebooted and was 5 minutes behind. Since it's been happening with the onset of the repack, channel sharing and new subchannels coming online I concluded that the 5 minute time short has been related to stations tweaking things. It's always been 5 minutes when it happens, but hasn't happened for a few weeks. I don't know why stations making changes would cause this, or why it is always a 5 minute short, but this just convinces me more that it is related to what other stations are doing. If the pattern holds, I will see this time short occur for about a week, declining in frequency until it subsides.

And as a non-related but interesting side note, I was at an estate sale today. I was out in the back yard and walked around to the side of the house. As I rounded the corner I saw on old combination VHF/UHF antenna laying in the yard. It was still attached to a pole segment that was about 8' long. But the real interesting thing was that this was one of the old antennas designed for VHF-Lo. It looked like it had to be about 9' - 10' long, with the UHF elements protruding forward from the nose of the antenna. The VHF elements at the rear had a total span of about 7'. It's been years since I've seen an antenna this big. I asked the people running the estate sale what the price for the antenna was, but they said that the heirs/owners told them not to sell it. Overall it was in great condition, although some of the VHF elements were bent, but nothing that couldn't be fixed. I would have bought it if the price was right, but it sure wouldn't have fit in the bed of a pickup.
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post #9616 of 9661 Old 11-16-2019, 05:03 AM
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Several stations are sending time data that is about 5 minutes slow so if your DVR looks at them and ignores the rest it could end up with a 5 minute time error. Just be happy that it doesn't use the one station (KBOP) that reset time to zero. (Time data is encoded as the number of seconds since some starting date.) Currently over a billion seconds slow.
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post #9617 of 9661 Old 11-16-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
I saw on old combination VHF/UHF antenna laying in the yard. It was still attached to a pole segment that was about 8' long. But the real interesting thing was that this was one of the old antennas designed for VHF-Lo. It looked like it had to be about 9' - 10' long, with the UHF elements protruding forward from the nose of the antenna. The VHF elements at the rear had a total span of about 7'. It's been years since I've seen an antenna this big.
Sounds like mine:
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post #9618 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 12:17 AM
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Several stations are sending time data that is about 5 minutes slow so if your DVR looks at them and ignores the rest it could end up with a 5 minute time error. Just be happy that it doesn't use the one station (KBOP) that reset time to zero. (Time data is encoded as the number of seconds since some starting date.) Currently over a billion seconds slow.
@JHBrandt has pointed out that the DVR+ sets the time in automatic mode by averaging the time from several stations. I have mine set to reboot twice a day to keep PSIP data up to date. The problem only happens following a reboot, but I don't know if that averaging is based on a random sampling of time from several stations, an average of all scanned stations or an internal list of stations based on RF. The one constant I have observed is that it seems to happen when stations are monkeying around with their signal in some way. It's like ripples in a pond after a stone is tossed in. The problem occurs frequently over a few days, then diminishes about a week until it goes away. I never noticed it before all the repacking, moving and channel sharing started this summer, which is when I started doing the scheduled reboots with a timer. Prior to that I was doing manual reboots as a general maintenance thing, and never noticed the time being off.

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Sounds like mine:
Similar, but the one I saw had the UHF elements at the front tip of the antenna. Kind of like an alligator with it's mouth open. Given the price of antennas these days I wonder if there is a reason to snap up these old antennas. And since a lot of younger people don't even know what a rooftop antenna is, they might be able to be purchased for almost nothing. If the estate sale folks would have taken $20 for this one I would have bought it. I've never tried to repair or rejuvenate one, but it doesn't look like it would be too difficult.
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post #9619 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 08:09 AM
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And mine

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Winegard-...7697P/19410180

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Sounds like mine:
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post #9620 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by schultdw View Post
Several stations are sending time data that is about 5 minutes slow so if your DVR looks at them and ignores the rest it could end up with a 5 minute time error. Just be happy that it doesn't use the one station (KBOP) that reset time to zero. (Time data is encoded as the number of seconds since some starting date.) Currently over a billion seconds slow.
Just checked my DTVPal DVR's clock. It's only 4 seconds fast. So somehow it is able to calculate the correct time, today anyway.
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post #9621 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 09:53 AM
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Just checked my DTVPal DVR's clock. It's only 4 seconds fast. So somehow it is able to calculate the correct time, today anyway.
Mine has been running varying degrees of slow. Currently about 9 seconds slow. (Looking at the diagnostics screen and the error for TSIDs 2843 or 2811. Which are the closest to accurate.)
For a long time not one station was fast. A few were very close, a few running around 20 seconds slow, followed by the group around 5 minutes slow. Then KUVN jumped from 5 minutes slow to about 1 minute fast. That improved the DVR time but KUVN's clock is slow so its time is slowly drifting back which means the DVR time will slowly get worse.
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post #9622 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 10:05 AM
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So any of you guys signed up for Layer3 TV now called T-Vision. It is IP delivered to a gateway DVR. Not cheap. Pics are good. I got an issue with KTVT freezing and causing issues with the IP recording. I have not seen this on the OTA stream. KTVT has been back on the Tar Road site with new transmission line and a used Rode TX for KTXA on RF 18. They also have a new backup on the Milton Twr on Belt Line RD. It has a Rode & a Harris solid state TX. Repack has been a night mare for broadcasters, wireless mic users, etc.
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post #9623 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Hmm... looks like KSTR turned off their ATSC 3.0 signal at midnight last night.

Looks like they had trouble with it Monday so they may have it off to make repairs.

This is an SFN ATSC 3.0 stream.
Tar Road main, Broadcast Hill, Garland & Denton. Ch34 (former Ch48)

Still no reliable software for the Gateways.


I have a Rigol spectrum analyzer.
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post #9624 of 9661 Old 11-17-2019, 09:59 PM
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Per their website, NewsNet is finally coming to Dallas: https://yournewsnet.com/where-to-see-newsnet/

Listed to launch on KLEG 44.4, which is currently occupied by Sony SAB (Hindi). Wonder if it's going to replace the current program, or if KLEG is going to move things around again.

Glad it's coming to DFW, but it's unfortunate that it'll be on KLEG. The station airs everything in 4:3 (letterboxing 16:9 content) and doesn't balance their audio channels right (44.1 audio is mostly on the right, 44.2 all on the left, 44.3 all on the right, 44.4 all on the left, 44.5 all on the right, 44.8 mostly on the right).
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post #9625 of 9661 Old 11-18-2019, 10:06 AM
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Checking RabbitEars this morning, it looks like KGSW is no longer marked as off the air. Not seeing any updates on LMS yet.

Is anyone here able to receive it? Is it still the same channel lineup as before? (Hope Channel/Blank/Blank/Local)
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post #9626 of 9661 Old 11-18-2019, 06:30 PM
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Greasemonkey may be able to pick it up. He might need to reorient his antenna to pull it off though. KGSW is supposedly broadcasting from due south of Ft. Worth, and KNAV is broadcasting from Cedar Hill on the same frequency (RF 22).

Now's the time though. If KNAV follows through with their CP to move to digital, it's gonna be really tough to pick up KGSW unless you live in the boonies south of Ft. Worth.
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post #9627 of 9661 Old 11-18-2019, 07:32 PM
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Weird: KODF filed a silent STA with the FCC on Nov. 7.

They've been off the air since June 18.

Better late than never, I guess.

With one exception, other area LPTV stations that went off the air during the repack filed silent STAs much sooner:

  • KWDA never filed a silent STA
  • KPFW filed one on June 28
  • K25FW filed one on April 22 (KPXD moved early), and has since filed for a renewal
  • KUVN-CD filed one on July 1
  • KJJM filed one on June 17
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post #9628 of 9661 Old 11-19-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Greasemonkey may be able to pick it up. He might need to reorient his antenna to pull it off though. KGSW is supposedly broadcasting from due south of Ft. Worth, and KNAV is broadcasting from Cedar Hill on the same frequency (RF 22).

Now's the time though. If KNAV follows through with their CP to move to digital, it's gonna be really tough to pick up KGSW unless you live in the boonies south of Ft. Worth.
I've already been manually scanning daily looking for This TV to show up. I just tried scanning RF 22 on all my devices for KGSW. The DVR+, which is the only device that shows signal strength and quality is coming up double zeros on the signal and rescanning didn't add it. I may be able to pick it up if I turn the antenna about 60 degrees toward the South, but then who knows what I'll lose in the process. I kind of like my Punjabi Tunes on the channel 44 series, even though there are no tunes involved. I'm also really looking forward to NewsNet. A 24 hour news channel is one area where broadcast TV is lacking, and this fixes it.
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post #9629 of 9661 Old 11-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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I just did a scan on my TV and saw ThisTV show up (21.3) but by the time I finished marking stations to not show it was gone.

Am I seeing things through wishful thinking or is it "blinking in and out"?

I'm in 75022 with a Winegaurd 7697P. It's a beautiful day for TV signals too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
I've already been manually scanning daily looking for This TV to show up. I just tried scanning RF 22 on all my devices for KGSW. The DVR+, which is the only device that shows signal strength and quality is coming up double zeros on the signal and rescanning didn't add it. I may be able to pick it up if I turn the antenna about 60 degrees toward the South, but then who knows what I'll lose in the process. I kind of like my Punjabi Tunes on the channel 44 series, even though there are no tunes involved. I'm also really looking forward to NewsNet. A 24 hour news channel is one area where broadcast TV is lacking, and this fixes it.
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post #9630 of 9661 Old 11-19-2019, 11:38 AM
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I may be able to pick it up if I turn the antenna about 60 degrees toward the South, but then who knows what I'll lose in the process.
Yeah that would be for experimental purposes only. And if you have to get up on the roof it's probably not worth the trouble.
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