Philadelphia, PA - OTA - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I get 57 & 61, but just like 17 and 3 they are subject to in-and-out behavior. They can be playing fine for a while then all of a sudden they start to break up or go out altogether. Sometimes they come back for a while -- or not.

I'm only 20mi from the towers. When will it end . . . .
3, 57 and 61 are still at their temporary sites on WPVI's analog tower, the latest progress reports say Q1 2020. Ion's rescan site says January 28 for their final signal on WPVI's analog tower, while no date has been announced for KYW/WPSG final signals on WPVI's digital tower. WNJS (and WNJT) is also still on their temporary signal, since it's state funded they have to go through a bidding process to hire a crew, so their latest progress report says Q2 2020.

17 isn't moving sites or changing frequencies, they are at the same site and power they've been at since 2009. If you're also having problems with WPHL, something else might be going on with your setup.

Last edited by KyL416; 10-11-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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post #4502 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 02:33 PM
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Question Wrong program info on WDPN MeTV

I live in southern Chester County about 10 miles east of Oxford. I use a large Hi/Lo VHF/UHF in my antenna (a huge old Radio Shack antenna) and get all the Philadelphia stations quite well (except WHYY). Recently as WDPN has improved its signal on 2.1 my picture quality is fine but my LG OLED displays the text "Me-TV" and shows the ABC logo. It also will show the name of the show currently on WMAR in Baltimore. This happens for 2.1 and 2.2, the other WDPN sub channels are correct in their displays. I also connected the antenna output to an AirTV box that uses the SlingTV app and I get similar results--MeTV program with WMAR-ABC program information on 2.1 and 2.2.

My guess is that I am somehow getting WMAR info from the back of the antenna (which points toward Baltimore while the front points towards Roxborough).

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? Can it be fixed? Thanks.

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post #4503 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 03:06 PM
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Those are likely getting their guide data from a 3rd party and not using the PSIP guide data, especially if it's including additional data like logos. Ideally they should be preferring the station entries where the RF number in the data matches, but many devices just do a blind major-minor only matching.

Looking at the Gracenote/Zap2it listings for New London's zip code they list both Baltimore and Philly stations and others like TiVO/Rovi likely do the same. If you can, go into the settings and change the zip code to something closer to Philly that won't have Baltimore stations listed.

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post #4504 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 04:13 PM
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Absolutely no problems with 3 or 17 at any time.
And no signal at all from 57 to 61 at any time.
I guess that's better than intermittent.
Michael
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post #4505 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 04:34 PM
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Can you do a search on rabbitears and post a link to your results?
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

I just did a zip code search for Cinnaminson and even at their reduced power you should still be getting a "good" signal for WPPX and WPSG. Something else might be causing your issue if you're not getting any signal at all from them since that section of NJ is mostly covered by green on the propogation maps.

How's your signals for WTXF on RF 31 or WFPA-CD on RF 35?

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post #4506 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
...Looking at the Gracenote/Zap2it listings for New London's zip code they list both Baltimore and Philly stations and others like TiVO/Rovi likely do the same. If you can, go into the settings and change the zip code to something closer to Philly that won't have Baltimore stations listed.
That fixed it! I changed my service area in the LG settings to Drexel Hill, did a rescan and now it works. I will try changing the AirTV zip and see if that changes things for that app. Thanks for your help!
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post #4507 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 07:32 PM
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Map looks just like yours, only default is 60 miles, so a little less shows at the fringe.
TXF (FOX 29) comes in fine. FPA doesn't even show up on my scan. As expected.
52-1 and 23-1 come in about the same, nothing below that on the list is watchable. Everything (AFAIK) above that on the list is okay except for 57 and 61.
Even, as I've said, 6 is okay.
Fortunately, it appears I'm not alone.
And not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a bit.
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post #4508 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 07:46 PM
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Others who are complaining have already been confirmed to be in in problem areas, like behind a hill where the lower height of the temporary antennas affects them, the wrong side of their directional signal, or in areas further north or northeast where the signals for WSWB, WQPX and/or WPXN are currently stronger. None of that applies to your location in NJ.

You definitely should be getting WPPX and WPSG at your location, and you should at least be picking up something from WFPA if you're pointed at Roxborough since it has a Line of Sight path to the area, along with some others LP/CA's from Roxborough in the "good" range like WPHY/WTVE, WPHA, WELL and WPSJ. Try checking the UHF elements on your antenna and any of the connectors to make sure none of them got loose. It would explain why you're only getting the strongest of the "good" signals.

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post #4509 of 4589 Old 10-11-2019, 09:32 PM
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I was fine before the "repack," even after the solar panels (yes, they did interfere slightly).
Checked my list from 3/2018 and was getting 35 then, too.
It's possible the recent install of attic fans may have messed something up.
Climbing into the attic to play with the antenna is on my to-do list.
Just not real close to the top.

Michael
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post #4510 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 06:14 AM
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Here's mine: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=18737

I was getting most all I wanted before the repack, even WFMZ. The following are missing now: 3, 57, 69. I never got 12, 2, 4.
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post #4511 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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Click the distances and you can see a plot of the path each signal has to take to get to you. The green lines are all the hills and mountains between you and their signal, the red line is what would be the line of sight path, the blue line is the path it takes to attempt to get to you.

The Roxborough signals are 2-edge at your location, so the reduced height of the interim signals are affecting your area, like here's the two plots for KYW:
Interim signal from WPVI's analog tower
Final signal from WPVI's digital tower


If you were getting WFMZ from their main Allentown signal on RF 46, as long as you're using a VHF capable antenna, you might have better luck when the Lehigh Valley stations move to WFMZ's tower and transmit from a higher location. WFMZ also had two Roxborough repeaters, a DTS signal on RF 46 and a translator on RF 45. They now have a pending application for a DTS site from WCAU's tower on RF 9, and a construction permit for a translator from WPVI's tower on RF 7 (although it's going to be highly directional to protect WABC). With a good VHF antenna you might also be able to get 2-edge reception from their future Roxborough DTS signal, if the pending application gets approved:
Current signal from WBPH's tower
Final signal from WFMZ's tower
Future DTS signal from WCAU's tower


You're way out of range for WACP/4, this is the path for their signal:
Current 10 kW signal
Final boosted 34 kW signal

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post #4512 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 04:16 PM
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RF9 moving to new tower

KyL416: Do you know when RF9 in Allentown is expected to move to the new tower with more power? I was in email contact with WBPH in the spring and I was told they anticipated the switch over to be in June. Obviously there's been a delay.
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post #4513 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 04:20 PM
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Last I heard they were waiting on the new antenna to ship. With how booked solid tower crews are giving priority to stations that need to move for the repack, unless they already got one scheduled in the next month or so before winter hits, it probably won't be done until the spring.

On the plus side, they finally got a backup generator at WBPH's site, which kept them on air at reduced power this past summer when one of the bad storms took out the power on Bauer Rock for a day.

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I don’t have a VHF antenna. At the time of digital transition, only WPVI & WHYY were VHF. I’ve been able to get PVI ever since they increased their power. I’m actually shocked how many seem to have abandoned UHF for the dark ages of VHF.
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post #4515 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 04:56 PM
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WDPN was always on VHF going back to its days in Wyoming. They had to stay on VHF to exploit the loophole to move across the country, while WACP and WMDE were created in an attempt to stop them from exploiting the loophole. Basically there was a rule on the books allowing a commercial VHF stations to instantly move to a state without any commercial VHF allocations, it was created to save the license of the then WOR-TV by moving it from NYC to NJ as WWOR, because RKO General was about to be stripped of their licenses. Fast forward to 2009, they forgot to take the rule off the books and PMCM used it to move a station from Wyoming to Delaware (WDPN) and a station from Nevada to New Jersey (WJLP).

The whole WBPH/WFMZ/WLVT (and later WPPT) thing was the result of a joint bid/sharing agreement where they would share with whoever didn't get bid on. The Lehigh Valley stations are behind a bunch of mountains and hills putting you in tropo territory, so it probably will be hard to get them without a VHF antenna.

With WPVI it will be even better for you when they turn on their 56 kW signal in the near future. Back in June WDPN got a boost to 34 kW, but on VHF 2 that's not enough for an antenna designed for UHF under normal conditions. WHYY has a weaker directional signal that doesn't reach as far as WPVI's non-directional signal (WHYY has a 60 mile contour vs what will be WPVI's 79.3 mile contour).

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post #4516 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I was fine before the "repack," even after the solar panels (yes, they did interfere slightly).
Checked my list from 3/2018 and was getting 35 then, too.
It's possible the recent install of attic fans may have messed something up.
Climbing into the attic to play with the antenna is on my to-do list.
Just not real close to the top.

Michael
Just to be thorough, you might not be receiving certain UHF TV stations due to LTE interference from a nearby cell tower. Now that many stations are at lower power and/or transmitting heights, the signals may not be strong enough to overcome this type of interference, if it exists near you. It could also be as simple as a kink in your coax causing the problems. I thought I'd throw those out here just in case.
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post #4517 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 07:45 PM
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17 isn't moving sites or changing frequencies, they are at the same site and power they've been at since 2009. If you're also having problems with WPHL, something else might be going on with your setup.
Wonderful. Channel 17 was fine for a decade, then last year the problems started and have persisted. I wonder if it could be interference from a strong out of market channel that is now at a closer frequency.

Thanks for the other information.

- kelson h

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post #4518 of 4589 Old 10-12-2019, 07:57 PM
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There are no nearby RF 17 channels that would affect you in Delaware, the closest one is a very low power station in northeastern NJ near NYC, while the closest RF 18 is WMBC in Northern NJ who has been broadcasting at the same power since 2010.

There is a small chance that you can be affected by land mobile interference from DC on RF 17 if the atmospheric conditions are right, but you would have to be in southwestern Delaware for that to happen on a regular basis.
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post #4519 of 4589 Old 10-13-2019, 07:29 PM
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17 is the only one that stays solid and strong in terms of strength here...

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post #4520 of 4589 Old 10-22-2019, 10:17 PM
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It's not live yet, but WDPN now has "2.7 2-ThsTV" in their TVCT table. So it looks like they'll be picking it up after 17.3 becomes CourtTV next week.

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post #4521 of 4589 Old 10-25-2019, 03:06 PM
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This TV is now live on 2-7
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post #4522 of 4589 Old 10-29-2019, 04:47 PM
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One of my YouTube subscribers alerted me of an e-mail response from WPVI regarding issues with their OTA signal:

"Hello, Thank you for contacting 6abc about your over the air signal issues. We are actively working to improve our signal quality in your home. In the upcoming weeks we will be conducting a FCC approved study and increasing our transmitter power. To better help us understand if this increase helps you or not please fill out the pre increase survey below. Pre-Power Increase Survey Thank you for your help and for being a 6abc viewer!"

It seems that they might be on path for a power increase from 34kW ERP to 56kW ERP. This may help for those of you that have problems picking them up even with a proper low VHF antenna.
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post #4523 of 4589 Old 11-01-2019, 01:08 PM
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They made the increase to 56 kW on Wednesday afternoon. It's a big improvement for me reliability wise, last night I had no problems at all with WPVI during the storm.

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post #4524 of 4589 Old 11-01-2019, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
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They made the increase to 56 kW on Wednesday afternoon. It's a big improvement for me reliability wise, last night I had no problems at all with WPVI during the storm.
Wow, I can get WPVI again! I haven't seen that channel in a long time.
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post #4525 of 4589 Old 11-01-2019, 01:23 PM
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Fm antenna would work for pvi? is on 88mhz
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post #4526 of 4589 Old 11-01-2019, 01:29 PM
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It depends on the style of antenna and where you are trying to get it. WPVI is right below the FM band at 82-88, with their ATSC pilot at 82.31 MHz, and the upgraded signal is horizontally polarized instead of circular.

FM only antennas are usually optimized for vertical polarization, and while it might have been good enough to get the old analog audio carrier at 87.75, they might have a dropoff below that if they are designed for 88-108 only.

Last edited by KyL416; 11-01-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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post #4527 of 4589 Old 11-02-2019, 08:48 PM
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I haven't noticed a change in 6 (weak but watchable), but I'm getting 57 now.
Michael
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post #4528 of 4589 Old 11-03-2019, 06:46 AM
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Amplifier Help in Philly

I'm trying to improve my OTA reception. Antenna is inside in the attic with a 30 ft run of coax straight to the TV. (No couplers, no splitter).


The reception is marginal on several channels. Would an amplifier at the antenna help me? I know they can be useful in the case of splitting to multiple TV's but in my case I wonder if I am simply constrained by having the antenna inside and the Amp won't be of any use.



Thoughts?
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We need more information before we can help you. Please read and provide the information in the stickies above.

Last edited by DrDon; 11-03-2019 at 10:16 AM.
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post #4530 of 4589 Old 11-03-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfiero View Post
I'm trying to improve my OTA reception. Antenna is inside in the attic with a 30 ft run of coax straight to the TV. (No couplers, no splitter).


The reception is marginal on several channels. Would an amplifier at the antenna help me? I know they can be useful in the case of splitting to multiple TV's but in my case I wonder if I am simply constrained by having the antenna inside and the Amp won't be of any use.



Thoughts?
Moved to Philly thread.

A RabbitEars or TVFool link would be helpful along with the call letters of the stations giving you issues.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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