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post #13621 of 13701 Old 12-05-2018, 08:31 PM
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^Thanks for your response.

1. As far as I know, no way (eqpt) to measure signal strength;

2. When watching a live game on the major/free channels, or ESPN or whatever with my streaming set top box (plenty of RAM and memory), the action is watchable. It will, though, be better when the camera has a couple of seconds of relative little activity/stillness. Otherwise, it is like the feed seems to slow the video down to slower motion for a bit. When the feed goes to a commercial, then the picture is excellent.

Is that at all clear? Actually what happens?

Jim
St. Louis, MO area
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post #13622 of 13701 Old 12-06-2018, 07:53 AM
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If you're watching via a streaming box, signal strength isn't a relevant concern for "reception". That's only applicable if using a tuner like the one built into the TV set.


If you're having difficulties with the image quality while streaming, it's a streaming concern, probably at the source.
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post #13623 of 13701 Old 12-06-2018, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
When watching a live game on the major/free channels, or ESPN or whatever with my streaming set top box (plenty of RAM and memory), the action is watchable. It will, though, be better when the camera has a couple of seconds of relative little activity/stillness. Otherwise, it is like the feed seems to slow the video down to slower motion for a bit. When the feed goes to a commercial, then the picture is excellent.
Jim, I have to agree with SHO89--the streaming boxes do not use an antenna. If you have picture artifacts with them it is either the provider's fault, or an issue with your home network.

I hope you have the boxes hard-wired to a your router--Wi-Fi can be miserable for video, especially in an area where several radios might share the same channels. If you really must use Wi-Fi experiment with different channels, and 2.4GHz vs. 5GHz, etc. 2.4 has better range but 5 has better bandwidth.

If what you mean is REPLACING the streaming box with an antenna for OTA broadcasts you will want to aim it towards the broadcast towers (mostly south of St. Louis). At 20 miles you will have no joy with a flat-panel antenna. You need an antenna with significant gain. The guys at antennasdirect.com will have excellent suggestions, and in fact one of them is seen often in this forum. I have an earlier version of the 2MAX with a reflector behind the donuts in my second-floor office, facing south, and stations 25 miles away are no problem. Did I mention that is through a 3-course brick wall in a 116-year-old house?

PS-I also have a Denon X3400H, and an X4000 as well. My colleague and I install and service about 30 high-end AV installations around St. Louis, and have probably 50 Denon receivers in service by now. We program remotes that run on an iPad and control all of the hardware at the press of a button.

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post #13624 of 13701 Old 12-06-2018, 01:10 PM
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Jim,


Antenna suitability is a function of your location and your surroundings.

If you're in a decent location, a small flat antenna like our Eclipse works fine. My daughter lives in your zip code just off Praille and 94. A non-amplified Eclipse is all she uses on their ground floor TV set. That house isn't even in what I'd call a "favorable" location. However, if you're on the "wrong side" of a hill, behind other buildings, or a forest, or any of the other numerous possible signal path impairments, your odds of satisfactory reception decrease.

The St Louis towers are generally strung along Gravois from the St Louis city limits out to House Springs in Jeffco. From St Charles county, that's going to be a generally southeasterly direction.

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post #13625 of 13701 Old 12-06-2018, 01:40 PM
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Dan and AdTech,
If what you mean is REPLACING the streaming box with an antenna for OTA broadcasts you will want to aim it towards the broadcast towers (mostly south of St. Louis). At 20 miles you will have no joy with a flat-panel antenna. You need an antenna with significant gain.
And I live just east of 94 and Pralle! With nothing, really, obstructing my signal--except for pointing SW when the signals come from SE.

You have hit the nail on the head. My receiver is hard-wired. Should I run an ethernet cable from my router directly to the set top box, in addition to the AVR? Would that likely cure the streaming of live TV imperfections I've mentioned (my streaming movies, typically, are fine)?

Or should I have an antenna you've described connected to the TV?

I really appreciate your good and understandable explanations!

Jim
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AVRs: Denon AVR-X4400H, Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X3400H, Onkyo TX-NR646
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post #13626 of 13701 Old 12-07-2018, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
With nothing, really, obstructing my signal--except for pointing SW when the signals come from SE.
Unfortunately 90 degrees off-axis is generally the least favorable condition for an antenna. Could you arrange to aim it SE even if on a SW wall? If there a suitable window nearby the window sill should run SE to NW.

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Should I run an ethernet cable from my router directly to the set top box, in addition to the AVR? Would that likely cure the streaming of live TV imperfections I've mentioned (my streaming movies, typically, are fine)?
No guarantees that the Wi-Fi is the issue, but it has been in about 90% of our clients' installations. In any case, the only cost to try it is the Ethernet cable.

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Or should I have an antenna you've described connected to the TV?
Remember, that gets you only OTA stations. No CNN, no ESPN, no MLB, no Netflix.................

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post #13627 of 13701 Old 12-07-2018, 08:03 AM
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Dan, OTA really is all I am after, in this case.

So, to be certain I have given the facts correctly:
-- I run my inputs through my AVR. TV sound out through ARC
-- Ethernet hard-wired from router into AVR,
-- Have a set top box. Run ethernet cable to it directly from router
-- Connect the antenna directly to the TV, and try to position the antenna facing as nearly SW as possible

How does that sound?

And thank you for dealing with my "first-grade" instruction method . . . .

Jim
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AVRs: Denon AVR-X4400H, Onkyo TX-NR1030, Denon AVR-X3400H, Onkyo TX-NR646
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post #13628 of 13701 Old 12-07-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
-- I run my inputs through my AVR. TV sound out through ARC
You should find more predictable performance with the Ethernet connections.

Are you already using ARC to get TV audio back to the receiver? About half of the people who try that are frustrated by its unreliability and revert to optical cable instead.

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post #13629 of 13701 Old 12-07-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
You should find more predictable performance with the Ethernet connections.

Are you already using ARC to get TV audio back to the receiver? About half of the people who try that are frustrated by its unreliability and revert to optical cable instead.
Yes, I am using ARC from the TV to the receiver. May be blind luck, but the sound seems excellent!

Jim
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post #13630 of 13701 Old 12-08-2018, 08:53 AM
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Yes, I am using ARC from the TV to the receiver. May be blind luck, but the sound seems excellent!
Yes, you are one of the lucky few.

As your A/V system grows you may find it preferable to use the AV receiver as the central hub for everything, and treat the TV as just a dumb monitor.

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post #13631 of 13701 Old 12-08-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Yes, you are one of the lucky few.

As your A/V system grows you may find it preferable to use the AV receiver as the central hub for everything, and treat the TV as just a dumb monitor.
Actually, I think that is what I am doing now. All inputs go through my AVR. I do not use the smart TV for anything other than as a monitor.

However, if I am understanding correctly, if I get an indoor antenna for OTA stations, that would be connected directly to the TV and I would "carve out" the good OTA stations for viewing that way, and not access them via my android box (streaming).

Right?

Jim
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post #13632 of 13701 Old 12-08-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jwb0007 View Post
However, if I am understanding correctly, if I get an indoor antenna for OTA stations, that would be connected directly to the TV and I would "carve out" the good OTA stations for viewing that way, and not access them via my android box (streaming).

Right?
Yes, if the signal comes from an antenna you need a way to get the audio back to the AVR. I didn't know a streaming box could also carry local stations. Have you installed some app that provides that?

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post #13633 of 13701 Old 12-08-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Yes, if the signal comes from an antenna you need a way to get the audio back to the AVR. I didn't know a streaming box could also carry local stations. Have you installed some app that provides that?
Yes, my H96 Pro Plus box has all the "goodies" installed -- apps which offer the ability to watch the major channels, Bravo, History, ESPN, yada yada yada.

However, the OTA channels are the ones I have been inquiring about. Again, for my college football viewing, and the Cards whenever possible.

Jim
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post #13634 of 13701 Old 12-09-2018, 08:59 AM
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I see now. I think we all got confused by your initial statement "The video on public stations is not very good when viewing using the set top box." So talk to Antennas Direct about the best choice for your location.

M = Mega, m = milli. K = Kelvin, k = kilo. B = Bytes, b = bits. G = Giga, g = gravity. Dan in Saint Louis
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post #13635 of 13701 Old 12-09-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I see now. I think we all got confused by your initial statement "The video on public stations is not very good when viewing using the set top box." So talk to Antennas Direct about the best choice for your location.
Thanks, Dan.

Jim
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post #13636 of 13701 Old 12-23-2018, 05:18 PM
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Hi guys, Im in 63048 Herculaneum zip code. While running a new coax cable to my sons new tv in room, I bumped my antenna pretty good in my attic. Causing me to have to try and guess its previous perfect location I had for great reception of my local channels in hd(2-1,4-1,5-1,9-1,11-1 & 30-1).

I guessed a close proximety as to where it was, but off course its off a tad from what it origonally was. I have a older Terk antenna mounted in my attic, I installed it about 12 yrs ago. Its pointed in to the south, but when I bumped it recently that caused me to lose reception of 9-1 & 11-1.

Is there a better way to aim my antenna vs guessing then having to climb down and use my tvs built in signal strength meter? Ugh

I attached a generic pic of my antenna.
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(R&L: Infinity Beta 50) (Center: Infinity Beta C360) (Surround Side & Back: Infinity IW ERS 210 x 4) (TM: Infinity IC ERS 110 x 2) (Sub: Def Tech SC1)
(7.2.2 Config.) (AVR: Denon-4500) (Audiosource Amp 110 for TM's) (BRP: Pioneer 80FD) (Nvidia Shield TV) (Display: LG-65C9)
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post #13637 of 13701 Old 12-23-2018, 08:05 PM
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All of the St Louis stations are to your NORTH (generally). If you have it aimed to the south, that might explain some of the difficulty.

If all you want to do is point your antenna, try using www.antennapoint.com


If you want a technical analysis of your potential reception as well as aiming information, use TVFool.com
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post #13638 of 13701 Old 12-25-2018, 12:59 PM
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All of the St Louis stations are to your NORTH (generally). If you have it aimed to the south, that might explain some of the difficulty.

If all you want to do is point your antenna, try using www.antennapoint.com


If you want a technical analysis of your potential reception as well as aiming information, use TVFool.com
Brainfart, I meant to say its aimed to the North!

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post #13639 of 13701 Old 12-26-2018, 11:16 AM
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Hello! I live in 63367 and have a db4e antenna in my attic which is about 30 feet from the ground and pointed due southeast to split the difference for the spread of the towers. I know I'm pushing the limits of the antenna, but I get the digital channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 24, 30 and 46 very well (really wish I got 33, but I know it's tough and I can't work magic). One thing I noticed that about about 10 minutes before the hour, and for every hour I watch antenna TV, as early at 5:50am or as late as 11:50am, there is a pulse that disrupts the picture for a second. It's on every station that I've viewed during that time, but quite honestly I don't watch PBS or the shopping on 7 much. Just wondering if anyone knows what can cause this pulse? Power line draw? Something at the towers (which I doubt)?
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post #13640 of 13701 Old 12-26-2018, 02:21 PM
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WGBU puts out a fairly weak signal. I happened to look at it earlier today on my spectrum analyzer and it's a good 30 dB lower than the signals from KDNL and KSDK on either side of it. Only about 3-5 dB above the noise floor on my Sony here at the office.


The repetitive "blip" has to be something on a timer that's putting out either a very strong (locally) signal or a wideband noise pulse. I can only speculate, but perhaps an alarm system or some medical device that has to "phone home" on a certain hourly schedule might be the source. You might be one of the very few candidates for an LTE filter (that I've encountered) in case that's a cellular signal from a device that is very close by. Are you close to a police or fire station or a taxi dispatch location? Might be their traffic. Any ham repeaters nearby? Might be from an auto-ID transmission.

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post #13641 of 13701 Old 12-27-2018, 08:21 AM
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Pulse ten minutes before the hour

Thanks for viewing the spectrum and looking at the output for KGBU for me. I knew it was low power, but I get it some evenings on a clear night. If I could stream it, it would not be an issue, but I got spoiled the first night I set up the antenna.

My best guess for the blip is probably an alarm system by one of the companies nearby or a neighbor. I am about a mile from Quail Ridge Park (across 64 and a little northwest from me) where there is a St. Charles County police location, their tower could be it. There are three cell towers that are about 0.5 miles from my house. I'll look into the LTE filter options. Maybe I need to get a low cost spectrum analyzer? Seems like it will be kind of cool to see.

Options:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RF-Spectrum...BmOT:rk:1:pf:0

or this one, although I could not see the blip unless it is a wide frequency pulse:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007AORLC4..._t2_B00H7JPU1G

Thanks for all of your help!

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WGBU puts out a fairly weak signal. I happened to look at it earlier today on my spectrum analyzer and it's a good 30 dB lower than the signals from KDNL and KSDK on either side of it. Only about 3-5 dB above the noise floor on my Sony here at the office.


The repetitive "blip" has to be something on a timer that's putting out either a very strong (locally) signal or a wideband noise pulse. I can only speculate, but perhaps an alarm system or some medical device that has to "phone home" on a certain hourly schedule might be the source. You might be one of the very few candidates for an LTE filter (that I've encountered) in case that's a cellular signal from a device that is very close by. Are you close to a police or fire station or a taxi dispatch location? Might be their traffic. Any ham repeaters nearby? Might be from an auto-ID transmission.
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post #13642 of 13701 Old 12-27-2018, 11:51 AM
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Neither is likely to help. The Winegard meter is simply the wrong item and the USB-attached analyzer is going to be far too slow to try and capture something of very short duration and of unknown frequency that occurs only once per hour.



You could combine an LTE filter (700 MHz low pass) with the high side of a UVSJ (terminate the LOW port) and that would attenuate everything but our local UHF signals. That would narrow it down.

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post #13643 of 13701 Old 01-15-2019, 07:18 PM
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Anyone know what happened to KSDK signal? No reception on OTA or UVerse. UVerse says supplier is experiencing technical difficulties.

Reynolds:"Not much faith in plan A?"
O'Neill:"Since when has plan A ever worked?"

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post #13644 of 13701 Old 01-15-2019, 07:24 PM
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KSDK is down for the count on YouTube TV, too.

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post #13645 of 13701 Old 01-16-2019, 05:06 AM
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KSDK on both OTA and DirecTV are up and normal as of 6:00 AM this morning.
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post #13646 of 13701 Old 01-19-2019, 10:04 PM
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Later in the evening KSDK came back. Their website says they had a power surge.

Reynolds:"Not much faith in plan A?"
O'Neill:"Since when has plan A ever worked?"

Stargate SG-1, episode 143, "Evolution"

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post #13647 of 13701 Old 02-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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Hey guys, it has been a very long time since I stopped by. I'm curious if anybody else is having issues watching the Blues game on DirecTV tonight. To add to my issue, it appears that one of my receivers may not be having the issue. Picture is breaking up and I'm getting occasional popping sounds.


Thanks,
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post #13648 of 13701 Old 04-06-2019, 10:19 PM
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What is going to be on channel 26 and channel 4.4 laff-tv?

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post #13649 of 13701 Old 04-07-2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffreymakela View Post
What is going to be on channel 26 and channel 4.4 laff-tv?
Channel 4.4?

Does that mean KMOV is going to add ANOTHER subchannel and dilute its CBS signal even more? Say it ain't so!

If your antenna is strong enough, Laff is currently on channel 33.4 (where I hope it stays). 33 is a pretty weak station, though. Indoor antennas probably won't pick it up, though the outdoor one on my roof picks it up fine.

Haven't heard about anything being on a channel 26.

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post #13650 of 13701 Old 04-07-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post
Channel 4.4?



Does that mean KMOV is going to add ANOTHER subchannel and dilute its CBS signal even more? Say it ain't so!



If your antenna is strong enough, Laff is currently on channel 33.4 (where I hope it stays). 33 is a pretty weak station, though. Indoor antennas probably won't pick it up, though the outdoor one on my roof picks it up fine.



Haven't heard about anything being on a channel 26.
Do a rescan. 4.4 says laff TV. I hope it goes to 4.4 so I can see it.

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