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post #14641 of 15058 Old 02-04-2018, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post
I don't see why they would discontinue their operation before D-Day, unless they are in the process of implementing their alternative transmission plan. They have made a name for themselves in the political news market, and I can't see them giving up broadcast TV availability in the Washington, DC market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwnOJQffrv0
Who is "they" in this case? Wherever WNVC/WNVT winds up sharing, they almost certainly won't be able to keep all their subchannels. Some number of them will have to go away. The only question really is which ones.

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post #14642 of 15058 Old 02-04-2018, 05:09 AM
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Russia Today on 30.4 had been blank for some time now. I was out of town since Tuesday, so I don't I don't know its recent history. There is no Wikipedia page update, or mention of transmitter status that I can find on their website.
I noticed it went off around Wed., I think. My Samsung TV gives a cryptic 'mode not supported' message. It is still on Comcast cable though, saw it yesterday over at my parents' house.
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post #14643 of 15058 Old 02-04-2018, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Who is "they" in this case? Wherever WNVC/WNVT winds up sharing, they almost certainly won't be able to keep all their subchannels. Some number of them will have to go away. The only question really is which ones.

- Trip
The "they" I was referring to was RT/Russia Today. Alternatively I could have called Russia Today, "it".

I don't see the ownership of WNVC/WNVT being the key player in what happens to their (its?) "tenants" unless WNVC/WNVT's status as a displaced license holder gets them some kind of relocation preference that they can confer to the benefit of their tenants.
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post #14644 of 15058 Old 02-04-2018, 04:08 PM
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I remember watching Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom on WUSA one Sunday morning, and there was this leopard sitting down in the grass, and when he got up and slowly sauntered, his spots would become squares, and then go back to being spots when he'd stop.
I remember seeing some WETA nature broadcasts where in fast moving scenes (such as panning the camera left to right or even somebody nodding their head) caused people's faces to lag. It was quite disconcerting.
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post #14645 of 15058 Old 02-07-2018, 01:28 AM
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I live in Winchester VA, about an hour and half from Washington DC.

I may be wrong but I believe a directional antenna is better to use then an omni antenna in this area. However, I am sure like most people I have OTA signals coming from several directions. Although the antenna I have is adjustable with a remote, in today's world of DVRs and / or multiple people watching different TVs, I do not think it is optimal. Even with out DVRs or multiple TVs there is no way of knowing the position of the antenna with out seeing it. The remote is best used for fine tuning the adjustment to get the maximum signal.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038751992631f

What is the best way to handle this situation? I have read that it is possible to combine the signals from multiple antennas, but I have also read that doing so could be a problem if the combine signals are out of phase.

Is it possible to combine the signals from multiple antennas into one cable? If so what is the best way to do so

Thank You

Kevin

Last edited by DrDon; 02-07-2018 at 04:53 AM.
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post #14646 of 15058 Old 02-07-2018, 04:14 AM
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tesla1886,

The choice of antennas depends on the signals you want. Go to http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90 . Make a plot and post the URL (enter the address and click "Map This", then use the tools on the map to go to satellite view, zoom in and place the marker over your house.Set the height for the antenna before clicking on "Make Radar Plot" and post the URL from the browser bar. That will give us a good look at what is possible at your location.

Signals arriving at Winchester can be very different due to the terrain. Some people can get Washington, DC stations, others can get some of the Hagerstown Stations, and some Harrisonburg. It all depends on location.

Jake
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post #14647 of 15058 Old 02-07-2018, 04:54 AM
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Link for @tesla1886 : http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038751992631f

Also edited into his post.

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post #14648 of 15058 Old 02-08-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tesla1886 View Post
I live in Winchester VA, about an hour and half from Washington DC.

I may be wrong but I believe a directional antenna is better to use then an omni antenna in this area. However, I am sure like most people I have OTA signals coming from several directions. Although the antenna I have is adjustable with a remote, in today's world of DVRs and / or multiple people watching different TVs, I do not think it is optimal. Even with out DVRs or multiple TVs there is no way of knowing the position of the antenna with out seeing it. The remote is best used for fine tuning the adjustment to get the maximum signal.

What is the best way to handle this situation? I have read that it is possible to combine the signals from multiple antennas, but I have also read that doing so could be a problem if the combine signals are out of phase.

Is it possible to combine the signals from multiple antennas into one cable? If so what is the best way to do so

Thank You

Kevin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
Make a plot and post the URL (enter the address and click "Map This", then use the tools on the map to go to satellite view, zoom in and place the marker over your house.Set the height for the antenna before clicking on "Make Radar Plot" and post the URL from the browser bar. That will give us a good look at what is possible at your location.
I have done what you asked above. However as I do not have enough post yet to post the link. I have sent DrDon a message asking him to add it. But I do not see much of a difference then what is in the first link.

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Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
Signals arriving at Winchester can be very different due to the terrain. Some people can get Washington, DC stations, others can get some of the Hagerstown Stations, and some Harrisonburg. It all depends on location.
One day a couple weeks ago I spent a few hours pointing the antenna in pretty much every direction to see what else I could get. While their were duplicates, however there were some new ones. I can get at least some from Hagerstown, Harrisonburg and DC if I can either combine antennas or get one omni that is strong enough.

Thank You

Kevin
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post #14649 of 15058 Old 02-08-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
The choice of antennas depends on the signals you want. Make a plot and post the URL (enter the address and click "Map This", then use the tools on the map to go to satellite view, zoom in and place the marker over your house.Set the height for the antenna before clicking on "Make Radar Plot" and post the URL from the browser bar. That will give us a good look at what is possible at your location.
I have done what you asked above. However as I do not have enough post yet to post the link. I have sent DrDon a message asking him to add. But I do not see much of a difference then what is in the first link.

Quote:
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Signals arriving at Winchester can be very different due to the terrain. Some people can get Washington, DC stations, others can get some of the Hagerstown Stations, and some Harrisonburg. It all depends on location.
One day a couple weeks ago I spent a few hours pointing the antenna in pretty much ever direction to see what else I could get. While there were duplicates, however there were some new ones. I can get at least some from Hagerstown, Harrisonburg and DC if I can either combine antennas or get one omni that is strong enough.
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post #14650 of 15058 Old 02-08-2018, 05:44 PM
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I think it's pretty much the same as the prior link: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038c28af388af

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post #14651 of 15058 Old 02-09-2018, 05:53 AM
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Tesla1886,

There's a lot to think about here. Be aware that the TV Fool plot does not account for things between the TV broadcast towers and your antenna (thinks like large buildings and trees). There are no guarantees.

Since you already have an antenna that you've pointed in various directions I'd try that experiment again, but this time recording your results.

1. Identify your antenna (brand, model number and whatever details you know about it).

2. Point your antenna in the three major directions (Hagerstown at 18 degrees, Harrisonburg at 229 degrees and Washington, DC at 115 degrees). Do a channel search and record the stations you get (use your TV Fool plot as a guide).

3. I'd print a paper copy of your plot and add three columns, one for each of the directions the antenna is pointed in. Record a "Yes" or "No" for whether that channel comes in when the antenna is pointed in that direction.

This will be a very useful experiment, as it will provide the details as to what you receive with a known antenna.

Generally speaking, anything in pink on the plot is going to take a more powerful antenna to get. Signals in gray will be very difficult to receive.

My first thought would be a two antenna system. You have two difficult VHF-HI channels in Washington, DC, 7 (ABC) and 9 (CBS). For this, maybe the Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF-HI antenna. For UHF (everything else), maybe the Antennas Direct DB-8e, set up so that one panel faces DC and the the other (with reflector removed to make it bi-directional) at exactly 90 degrees to that.

But there are options.
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post #14652 of 15058 Old 02-11-2018, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
Tesla1886,

There's a lot to think about here. Be aware that the TV Fool plot does not account for things between the TV broadcast towers and your antenna (thinks like large buildings and trees). There are no guarantees.

Since you already have an antenna that you've pointed in various directions I'd try that experiment again, but this time recording your results.

1. Identify your antenna (brand, model number and whatever details you know about it).

2. Point your antenna in the three major directions (Hagerstown at 18 degrees, Harrisonburg at 229 degrees and Washington, DC at 115 degrees). Do a channel search and record the stations you get (use your TV Fool plot as a guide).

3. I'd print a paper copy of your plot and add three columns, one for each of the directions the antenna is pointed in. Record a "Yes" or "No" for whether that channel comes in when the antenna is pointed in that direction.

This will be a very useful experiment, as it will provide the details as to what you receive with a known antenna.

Generally speaking, anything in pink on the plot is going to take a more powerful antenna to get. Signals in gray will be very difficult to receive.

My first thought would be a two antenna system. You have two difficult VHF-HI channels in Washington, DC, 7 (ABC) and 9 (CBS). For this, maybe the Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF-HI antenna. For UHF (everything else), maybe the Antennas Direct DB-8e, set up so that one panel faces DC and the the other (with reflector removed to make it bi-directional) at exactly 90 degrees to that.

But there are options.
Another thing to consider: There is a difference between "magnetic north" that a compass shows, and "true north" that appears on the plots. What is more, your house probably alters magnetic north, so you can't just apply the local "magnetic anomaly".

One way to correct for the problem may be to print a local map from, say, maps.google.com, recognize that north is up by default, rotate your map so it matches the local roads, rotate your plot of station directions so it's north matches up on the map, and use the resulting directions.

A better way, that costs money: Commercial antenna installers buy "signal strength meters", and try to point the antenna to maximize signal strength. If you have a small TV (or a laptop PC with TV tuner dongle), you can look at the picture on the screen, and futz around until the signal is strong.

Yet another way: get an electronic rotor on your antenna. Rotate it until the signal is strong.

Good luck!
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post #14653 of 15058 Old 02-11-2018, 12:32 AM
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Another thing to consider: There is a difference between "magnetic north" that a compass shows, and "true north" that appears on the station position plots. What is more, your house and antenna probably alters local magnetic north, so you can't just apply the local "magnetic anomaly" that you can look up.

One simple way to find true north is be to print a local map from, say, maps.google.com, recognize that north is up by default, rotate your map so it matches the orientation of local roads, rotate your plot of station directions so it's north matches up on the map, and use the resulting directions.

If you are a stargazer, you can look for the direction of the north star...

Another way, that costs money: Commercial antenna installers buy "signal strength meters", and try to point the antenna to maximize signal strength. If you have a small TV (or a laptop PC with TV tuner dongle), connect the antenna to your little TV, look at the picture on the screen, and change antenna orientation until the signal is best.

Yet another way: get an electronic rotor on your antenna. Rotate it until the signal is best. Write down the orientation.

Good luck!

Last edited by MRG1; 02-11-2018 at 12:37 AM.
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post #14654 of 15058 Old 02-11-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake V View Post
Tesla1886,

There's a lot to think about here. Be aware that the TV Fool plot does not account for things between the TV broadcast towers and your antenna (thinks like large buildings and trees). There are no guarantees.

Since you already have an antenna that you've pointed in various directions I'd try that experiment again, but this time recording your results.

1. Identify your antenna (brand, model number and whatever details you know about it).

2. Point your antenna in the three major directions (Hagerstown at 18 degrees, Harrisonburg at 229 degrees and Washington, DC at 115 degrees). Do a channel search and record the stations you get (use your TV Fool plot as a guide).

3. I'd print a paper copy of your plot and add three columns, one for each of the directions the antenna is pointed in. Record a "Yes" or "No" for whether that channel comes in when the antenna is pointed in that direction.

This will be a very useful experiment, as it will provide the details as to what you receive with a known antenna.

Generally speaking, anything in pink on the plot is going to take a more powerful antenna to get. Signals in gray will be very difficult to receive.

My first thought would be a two antenna system. You have two difficult VHF-HI channels in Washington, DC, 7 (ABC) and 9 (CBS). For this, maybe the Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF-HI antenna. For UHF (everything else), maybe the Antennas Direct DB-8e, set up so that one panel faces DC and the the other (with reflector removed to make it bi-directional) at exactly 90 degrees to that.

But there are options.
Thank You for your help.

So it sounds like taking the output of multiple antennas and combining them into one cable is possible. What is the best way to do this?
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post #14655 of 15058 Old 02-11-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
Another thing to consider: There is a difference between "magnetic north" that a compass shows, and "true north" that appears on the plots. What is more, your house probably alters magnetic north, so you can't just apply the local "magnetic anomaly".

One way to correct for the problem may be to print a local map from, say, maps.google.com, recognize that north is up by default, rotate your map so it matches the local roads, rotate your plot of station directions so it's north matches up on the map, and use the resulting directions.

A better way, that costs money: Commercial antenna installers buy "signal strength meters", and try to point the antenna to maximize signal strength. If you have a small TV (or a laptop PC with TV tuner dongle), you can look at the picture on the screen, and futz around until the signal is strong.

Yet another way: get an electronic rotor on your antenna. Rotate it until the signal is strong.

Good luck!
Thank you for the additional input.

I have a PVR with a Hauppauge Tuner card in it. When I need to readjust my current antenna because the wind move it, I use Hauppauge signal meter program
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post #14656 of 15058 Old 02-12-2018, 04:40 AM
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It's common to combine a VHF with a UHF antenna. You use a special combiner that has separate inputs for each. The line for VHF will filter out the UHF signals and the one for UHF will filter out the VHF signals.

Combining UHF signals can be very difficult, since if the signal arrives at one antenna a split second after it arrives at the second antenna it can mean disaster (as the TV can't make sense of the signals). The DB-8e is designed with two panels that can be pointed in two different directions. It does not work in every situation. Mostly it works when the panels themselves are set to point 90 degrees apart (say, for example, one north and the other east). In your situation it's an experiment. It may or may not work.

Don't consider just putting up different antennas and combining them. It won't work.

If you only have one television you could use a larger VHF-HI/UHF antenna with a rotor. The downside is that need to re-point it every time you change the channel, and some televisions require a re-scan each time you re-point the antenna.

I'd be interested to see the results of the experiment I mentioned earlier. It would be useful in estimating your situation better.
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post #14657 of 15058 Old 02-12-2018, 01:07 PM
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It's common to combine a VHF with a UHF antenna. You use a special combiner that has separate inputs for each. The line for VHF will filter out the UHF signals and the one for UHF will filter out the VHF signals.

Combining UHF signals can be very difficult, since if the signal arrives at one antenna a split second after it arrives at the second antenna it can mean disaster (as the TV can't make sense of the signals). The DB-8e is designed with two panels that can be pointed in two different directions. It does not work in every situation. Mostly it works when the panels themselves are set to point 90 degrees apart (say, for example, one north and the other east). In your situation it's an experiment. It may or may not work.

Don't consider just putting up different antennas and combining them. It won't work.

If you only have one television you could use a larger VHF-HI/UHF antenna with a rotor. The downside is that need to re-point it every time you change the channel, and some televisions require a re-scan each time you re-point the antenna.

I'd be interested to see the results of the experiment I mentioned earlier. It would be useful in estimating your situation better.
Where can I get one of the combiners that you mentioned or what are they called or model number so I can Google it?

I am interested in the results as well, I am also eager. Unfortunately this project will have to wait. The two antennas you mentioned are about $170 combined before shipping plus what ever the cost of the combiner and cable etc. It is something I want to do as soon as I can. I use the antenna to supplement Direct TV (or maybe it is the other way around). I would like to be able to get rid of the DC stations on Direc TV and safe a little money if I can get them on the antenna reliably enough. I do get channels 4 and 5. As you said it is channels 7 and 9 that are the issue.

Since I put up the antenna I have, I have been able to record programs that are not available on Direct TV, including some of my all time favorites and some I have never heard of. I am hoping that I can get more programs that are not available on Direc TV if I can get some of the other channels.

This is the antenna I currently have.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thank You again for your help
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post #14658 of 15058 Old 02-12-2018, 04:04 PM
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Antennas Direct has the best quality VHF/UHF Combiner that I'm aware of. But you would probably do well with the one sold at many hardware stores.

The antenna your using is certainly not near the top of the pack. I've never seen any published, measured gain from that antenna. Much of its gain is from an amplifier. It's usually decent when the signal levels are strong. Consider that a larger sail captures more wind than a smaller sail.

Is the antenna currently mounted? If yes, where? Roof? Attic? Back porch? Kitchen? That would be useful information.

Washington DC channels 4 and 5 broadcast on real channels 48 and 36, respectively. During the repack of channels Channel 4 will move from UHF 48 to UHF 34. Your plot shows them at -3.9 and -6.0, so the fact that you receive them is promising.

Channels 7 and 9 broadcast on VHF 7 and 9, respectively. It's not surprising that your antenna doesn't pick them up.

I'll look forward to your post with the full results of the experiment, should you get a chance to do it.

Also, you may want to keep an eye out to see if any of your neighbors have rooftop antennas, and what kind they have.
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Is the antenna currently mounted? If yes, where? Roof? Attic? Back porch? Kitchen? That would be useful information.
It is mounted about as high as I can get it at the peak of the roof.

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I'll look forward to your post with the full results of the experiment, should you get a chance to do it.
I will post them as soon as I can. I did record the results of what I did a few weeks ago pointing the antenna I have in several directions.

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Also, you may want to keep an eye out to see if any of your neighbors have rooftop antennas, and what kind they have.
Unfortunately non of my neighbors have any antennas, at least not the ones on my street. Not sure about any others in the development but I doubt it.
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post #14660 of 15058 Old 02-13-2018, 10:46 AM
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I was just thinking about this. When you do your test record a yes or no for all the all the channels on your list for each direction (you'll probably want to do a re-scan or manually enter the real channel number for each).

I am especially curious to know what Hagerstown and Harrisonburg channels you get when the antenna is pointed at DC. The DB-8e has the most gain for UHF, but can be pretty blind to signals not right in front of it. It's certainly possible something like the DB-4e (and others) might be more suitable (and cheaper), and get DC plus the stations in green and yellow from Hagerstown and Harrisonburg.
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post #14661 of 15058 Old 03-07-2018, 04:12 PM
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Looks like it's official:


As of April 1, 2018, the over-the-air broadcast frequencies for WNVC and WNVT will no longer be available in the Washington, D.C. metro area. MHz Networks utilized these two frequencies to broadcast its international programming known as MHz Worldview.

http://www.mhznetworks.org/blog
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post #14662 of 15058 Old 03-09-2018, 11:41 AM
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Looks like it's official:

Quote:
As of April 1, 2018, the over-the-air broadcast frequencies for WNVC and WNVT will no longer be available in the Washington, D.C. metro area. MHz Networks utilized these two frequencies to broadcast its international programming known as MHz Worldview.
http://www.mhznetworks.org/blog
Very sad. It appears that Commonwealth PBS sold the frequencies. https://current.org/2017/03/virginia...ctrum-auction/ Can anybody tell who they sold those frequencies to, and if some other TV will be broadcasting in the place of MHz Networks?
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post #14663 of 15058 Old 03-09-2018, 11:48 AM
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They were sold to the FCC in the Incentive Auction. The TV band is being repacked and stations will be changing channels over the next several years. Spectrum purchased from WNVC/WNVT as well as WUTB, WDCA, WDCW, WZDC-CD, and WMDO-CD, among others, has been sold to wireless companies including T-Mobile and Dish.

- Trip
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post #14664 of 15058 Old 03-09-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dleedlee View Post
Looks like it's official:


As of April 1, 2018, the over-the-air broadcast frequencies for WNVC and WNVT will no longer be available in the Washington, D.C. metro area. MHz Networks utilized these two frequencies to broadcast its international programming known as MHz Worldview.

http://www.mhznetworks.org/blog
Thanks. Well at least now I will know what happened when they disappear.

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post #14665 of 15058 Old 03-11-2018, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
They were sold to the FCC in the Incentive Auction... Spectrum purchased from WNVC/WNVT as well as WUTB, WDCA, WDCW, WZDC-CD, and WMDO-CD, among others, has been sold to wireless companies including T-Mobile and Dish.
Interesting. I think that means the rather impressive TV antenna for WNVC won't be needed any more and could be removed.

Last edited by TheKrell; 03-11-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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post #14666 of 15058 Old 03-11-2018, 06:06 PM
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If anyone really wants RT America, try

https://www.rt.com/usa

which still has a lot of stores and video, as well as the live feed at

https://www.rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air

The main website, https://www.rt.com, is somewhat different.

Likewise, all or most of the MHz network channels have their own websites.
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post #14667 of 15058 Old 03-11-2018, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKrell View Post
Interesting. I think that means the rather impressive TV antenna for WNVC won't be needed any more and could be removed.
Do tell more. What makes it so impressive??
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post #14668 of 15058 Old 03-12-2018, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG1 View Post
If anyone really wants RT America, try

https://www.rt.com/usa

which still has a lot of stores and video, as well as the live feed at

https://www.rt.com/on-air/rt-america-air

The main website, https://www.rt.com, is somewhat different.

Likewise, all or most of the MHz network channels have their own websites.
When we heard about this last year on NPR, we were very Dissapointed. This was announced literally days after we had cancelled Xfinity Cable TV, and were dependent on OTA and Streaming Apps on devices. We were never able to receive the "higher MHZ section", and depending on weather, even the primary channels were not consistent, and upgrading antennas for only a few months broadcasts seemed irresponsible. The MHZ website has mentioned losing and then gaining new affiliates in other markets, but wasn't acknowledging anything about the loss of their home stations, nor returned emails requesting information. In some other markets the MHZ 1 broadcast has been picked up on PBS diginets.

Most of the "rebroadcast" channels, RT, France 24, etc are available via free apps on AppleTV and AndroidTV, but our most watched "curated" shows were on MHZ 1.

The MHZ Choice app on AppleTV, and Android TV, ( including Amazon devices which use Android OS), has most of International Mystery, Drama-Crime series we have watched, and enjoyed. The subscription price is rather steep however, higher than BritBox or Acorn subscriptions, with considerably less content than either. As the $8.99 Subscription is Monthly, we have been cancelling as we devour the limited but enjoyable content, then re-subscribing when newer content has replaced what we have already viewed.
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post #14669 of 15058 Old 03-12-2018, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valyard View Post
When we heard about this last year on NPR, we were very Dissapointed. This was announced literally days after we had cancelled Xfinity Cable TV, and were dependent on OTA and Streaming Apps on devices. We were never able to receive the "higher MHZ section", and depending on weather, even the primary channels were not consistent, and upgrading antennas for only a few months broadcasts seemed irresponsible.
FWIW:

MHZ was actually 2 transmitters at 2 different locations, set up to appear to be a sole "Channel 30" to the viewer.
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post #14670 of 15058 Old 03-12-2018, 09:04 AM
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I will certainly miss my International Mysteries on MHz. That and the breaking news coverage from around the world on the other sub-channels. NHK was great, too, but they moved on last year. I cut the cord some 30+ years ago when I moved to Fairfax and MHz was my lifeline to entertainment and news. Michael Jeck, hosted international movies by 'little known directors' Akira Kurosawa and Hou Hsiao-Hsien every Sunday. That was it. Anyone remember their local sports call-in show with Chick and ?. I once sent away for their free comprehensive World Cup program in the '80s because they were they only ones that covered the World Cup in the area back then.

*sigh*
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