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post #13051 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 05:05 PM
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Could someone please explain to me why WEDE 34.1 & Retro 34.2 on my TiVo OTA tuner indicate a signal strength of 67 peak (on the old frequency of 34) and only a peak reading of 32 (on the new frequency of 28) I am trying to pull in Retro TV near O'Hare with a 30 ft outdoor antenna (with rotor - preamp). In both cases, i don't have any picture or sound.

Thank you in advance for your reply.
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post #13052 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 06:06 PM
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That signal you are now seeing on RF 34 is WCPX-TV.

Like others have mentioned many stations, including WEDE-CD, are currently at reduced power so they can replace their pre-repack antennas with ones designed for their new frequencies. WEDE's temporary signal is highly directional to the south and rapidly drops off towards the direction of O'Hare, with the Rosemont area being outside of its service contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....4&site=1&map=Y

Their final signal will cover the Rosemont area better:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....f&site=1&map=Y

Last edited by KyL416; 10-19-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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post #13053 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
That signal you are now seeing on RF 34 is WCPX-TV.

Like others have mentioned many stations, including WEDE-CD, are currently at reduced power so they can replace their pre-repack antennas with ones designed for their new frequencies. WEDE's temporary signal is highly directional to the south and rapidly drops off towards the direction of O'Hare, with the Rosemont area being outside of its service contour:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....4&site=1&map=Y

Their final signal will cover the Rosemont area better:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....f&site=1&map=Y
Thank you for your prompt reply. This is great news!!!
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post #13054 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 07:33 PM
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It looks like WRJK-LD is now on the air on RF11. Looks like it came on the air around 2PM CT and was slowly ramped up in power until about 5PM CT.

- Trip
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post #13055 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It looks like WRJK-LD is now on the air on RF11. Looks like it came on the air around 2PM CT and was slowly ramped up in power until about 5PM CT.

- Trip
Trip,

It also appears you are locking, or almost locking, something on 14 and 39. Does the PSIP show up as an ID on your live tuner website, or do you manually punch that in?
Channel 6 is not, and that's analog WRME-LP, IIRC.

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post #13056 of 13130 Old 10-19-2019, 10:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zippyfrog View Post
I was wondering the same thing. As I noted in an earlier post, there were quite a few channels I was missing, but last night I did a rescan and everything is coming in at the same level or better than it was before the shifting with the exception of WMAQ. WMAQ is only getting about 50% signal and drops very quickly to 20% then jumps back to 50% then I get nothing. I used to get WMAQ very reliably.
It jumped in frequency some, and that sounds like multipath. I was concerned that it would be more affected by it above channel 30. But again: they are on their aux transmitter. It isn't the final setup yet.
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post #13057 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post
It also appears you are locking, or almost locking, something on 14 and 39. Does the PSIP show up as an ID on your live tuner website, or do you manually punch that in?
Channel 6 is not, and that's analog WRME-LP, IIRC.
To be clear, it's someone else's tuner reporting data to RabbitEars. But it uses the TSID, if available, and falls back on PSIP for ID if the TSID is unavailable. If the station doesn't ID itself in a sensible way, then it won't be detected, or if it's a service that doesn't produce a decode.

6 is WRME-LP, which is analog. The tuner is digital-only, so there's nothing to be detected.

14 is land-mobile operations.

39 is likely T-Mobile LTE.

- Trip

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post #13058 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post
It jumped in frequency some, and that sounds like multipath. I was concerned that it would be more affected by it above channel 30. But again: they are on their aux transmitter. It isn't the final setup yet.
Got it - thanks! I hope they have it worked out before the Bears play on Sunday Night Football next. I don't want to miss out on that game. What exactly is an aux transmitter? Is that a backup?
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post #13059 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 08:30 AM
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At about 50 or so miles west/southwest of downtown I have to say all of the full power Chicago stations who changed frequencies are all coming in fine here. Many of them even show improved signal strength even though many of them are on aux antennas. Last night I even saw WRJK on rf11. I have not seen any sign of several of the lp stations such as 34,25,40,61 etc. Even the two lp Weigel stations (23 and 48) are blasting in. I'm sure 48 will vanish once WSPY LD signs back on on virtual channel 18.

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post #13060 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 08:38 AM
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Chicago Status

Nothing drives me crazier than misinformation from message board 'experts'- A common problem for many message boards for a variety of topics...

For those wondering the current broadcaster status, here is the (accurate) Chicago status:

Ch 12 - WBBM 2 Unchanged and not impacted by the repack. Their antenna is the former WTTW analog antenna. I'm not sure if it is on the Willis Tower East or West tower.

Ch 18 - WWME 23 (Class A) They are operating on their licensed facility. Their main is an antenna on the Willis Tower West bridge.

Ch 19 - WGN 9 Unchanged and not impacted by the repack. Their main is an antenna on the Willis Tower SW monopole.

Ch 20 - WMEU 48 (Class A) They are operating on their licensed facility. Their main is an antenna in the Willis Tower West tower.

Ch 21 - WJYS 62 They are operating on their licensed facility. Their main is the Willis Tower top east master antenna. They were in this antenna before and after the repack. This antenna is the former main Willis master antenna, but is now being repurposed as the main for WJYS and WCPX and the Aux for most of the others.

Ch 22 - WLS 7 (and channel share WXFT 60) They are operating on a STA on the Willis Tower. They are using the NE monopole, the pre-repack Aux antenna for most broadcasters. They are the sole broadcaster in this antenna until their new main and aux is ready. Their main will not be ready until the summer of 2020, their aux by the end of the year.

Ch 23 - WCIU 26 They are operating on their aux facility at the Willis Tower. They are using the Willis top east master antenna, which will be the new aux antenna for most broadcasters, but also the main for WJYS and WCPX. Their main will not be ready until later this year.

Ch 24 - WLFD 32 (and channel share WPWR 50) They are operating temporarily from the Hancock Tower. The main will be located at the Willis Tower but will not be ready until 2020.

Ch 25 - WTTW 11 (and channel share WYCC 20) They are operating on their aux facility. They are using the Willis top east master antenna, the same antenna currently used as a aux for WCIU and main antenna for WJYS and WCPX. Their main will not be ready until later this year.

Ch 26 - WPVN (Class A) They are operating on a STA facility on the Hancock Tower.

Ch 28 - WEDE (Class A) They are operating on a STA facility on the Willis Tower. The STA facility is very directional.

Ch 30 - WDCI (Low Power) Unchanged and not impacted by the repack. Status unknown.

Ch 31 - WESV (Low Power) Status unknown. They were still on the air on channel 40 Saturday morning, but I do not see them now on channel 40 or 31.

Ch 32 - WLPD (Class A) They are located in the western suburbs. They have an STA to operate at reduced power. Status unknown.

Ch 33 - WMAQ 5 (and channel share WSNS 44) They are operating temporarily from the Hancock Tower. The main will be located at the Willis Tower but will not be ready until 2020.

Ch 34 - WCPX 38 They are operating on their licensed facility. Their main is the Willis top east master antenna. They were in this antenna before and after the repack. This antenna is the former main Willis master antenna, but is now being repurposed as the main for WJYS and WCPX and the Aux for most of the others.

Ch 35 - WGBO 66 They are operating on a temporary facility on the Hancock Tower. It is unclear when their main facility on the Hancock Tower will be ready.

Unknowns: WOCK (Class A ch 4), WJRK (Low Power ch 11), WCHU (Low Power ch 7), WUVI (Low Power ch 3). VHF for LPTV and Class A is worthless, even if you are on the Hancock or Willis Tower. Don't expect normal viewer setups to pick them up. Only DX enthusiasts will have a chance.

From my home in Park Ridge, IL, using a single panel Antennas Direct with a VHF element, I am easily picking up Ch 12, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 33, 34, 35. I see 11, 17 and 26 on my analyzer, but not enough to lock it. I see 30, but the waveform is pretty distorted and I cannot lock it.

Shout out- Weigel's Class A stations (WWME and WMEU) and blasting in at levels that look like full powers.
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post #13061 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 08:49 AM
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Detailed Info
Thanks for this...however what does it mean? When it says "aux" or "temp" antenna/location does that mean a weaker signal or should it still be the same? What is the impact of al these changes?
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post #13062 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 08:52 AM
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Thanks for this...however what does it mean? When it says "aux" or "temp" antenna/location does that mean a weaker signal or should it still be the same? What is the impact of al these changes?
The answer varies wildly. Aux usually means a backup antenna or transmitter or both. Sometimes the power is the same, but often times it is reduced. Sometimes minimal, sometimes drastic. An Aux is never more than the main facility, it cannot be legally.

A STA is a Special Temporary Authority. It is usually for an emergency or unplanned situation. These facilities can also wildly vary.

In the case of Chicago, no one has an Aux or STA that is close to the main. All are reduced.
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post #13063 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tvmicrowave View Post
The answer varies wildly. Aux usually means a backup antenna or transmitter or both. Sometimes the power is the same, but often times it is reduced. Sometimes minimal, sometimes drastic. An Aux is never more than the main facility, it cannot be legally.

A STA is a Special Temporary Authority. It is usually for an emergency or unplanned situation. These facilities can also wildly vary.

In the case of Chicago, no one has an Aux or STA that is close to the main. All are reduced.
Thanks!
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post #13064 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tvmicrowave View Post
Ch 25 - WTTW 11 (and channel share WYCC 20) They are operating on their aux facility. They are using the Willis top east master antenna, the same antenna currently used as a aux for WCIU and main antenna for WJYS and WCPX. Their main will not be ready until later this year.
They have no STA on file with the FCC, and everything I've heard says WTTW is on its final facility. If they're operating with anything besides their final facility, they are doing so illegally.

- Trip

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post #13065 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 12:06 PM
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No disrespect to tvmicrowave intended but according to my sets RF18 is WMEU (48) and RF20 is WWME (23). At least that's what all 3 of my sets report.

R. B.
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post #13066 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 02:41 PM
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So should I be getting worse reception? This morning after the re-scan FOX is coming in worse than before. Every minute or so I either completely lose the picture or it gets pixelated and the audio drops out. Signal strength is around 30 but when it drops to <27-25ish is when things get bad.
Yup, same thing happened to me, I originally pulled in 85 channels on my Friday evening rescan, including a few Milwaukee channels. Then on Saturday, all the Milwaukee channels were low or no signal & WFLD Fox32 Chicago is cutting in & out between low & no signal. Making watching the Bears game impossible, I switched to Fox Sports to stream the game today.

Anyone else know why this happened?
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post #13067 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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No disrespect to tvmicrowave intended but according to my sets RF18 is WMEU (48) and RF20 is WWME (23). At least that's what all 3 of my sets report.
How embarrassing! And those are my stations! We and others at Willis keep flip flopping these up. Yes, you are correct. Thank you-
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post #13068 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cookefam314 View Post
Yup, same thing happened to me, I originally pulled in 85 channels on my Friday evening rescan, including a few Milwaukee channels. Then on Saturday, all the Milwaukee channels were low or no signal & WFLD Fox32 Chicago is cutting in & out between low & no signal. Making watching the Bears game impossible, I switched to Fox Sports to stream the game today.

Anyone else know why this happened?
Read tvmicrowave's post. WFLD is one of the stations transmitting at reduced power from a temporary location until they finish the work on their main site at the Willis (Sears) tower. The Hancock tower signals are around 300 feet lower and less power compared to the final Willis Tower signals.

As for getting the Milwaukee channels, that was temporary atmospheric boost. Although, with a decent deep fringe antenna pointed towards that direction, you might be able to get some of those Milwaukee channels on a regular basis in the Cary, IL area.
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post #13069 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 04:13 PM
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Yup, same thing happened to me
Glad its not just me
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post #13070 of 13130 Old 10-20-2019, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvmicrowave View Post
Nothing drives me crazier than misinformation from message board 'experts'- A common problem for many message boards for a variety of topics...

For those wondering the current broadcaster status, here is the (accurate) Chicago status:

Shout out- Weigel's Class A stations (WWME and WMEU) and blasting in at levels that look like full powers.
Thanks, TVmicrowave, and thanks to you, HVSTRK. For those who don't know, these are the top engineers in Weigel Broadcasting. That they would spend their keystrokes on us is a blessing, to clear the air...and let uus know what is on the air, how and where.

But we did buy tvmicrowave a notebook so he can track all of his stations and what channels they are on. But seriously...thanks, guys, I appreciate it...a lot of engineers this past week lost a lot of sleep to ensure that the signals were down and impacted as little as possible during the repack. As you can imagine, setting up facilities on other towers/sites isn't cheap! I didn't know that WPVN's aux facilities were built out on Hancock (primary is Trump Tower). For a low power station to do that, and to it right as they did, was phenomenal. I don't blame WRJK for being off-air for a few days, or others being off longer. With small budgets, this might almost break the bank for at least one of them.

I would be curious, guys, if you could let us all in on one thing: A Madison, WI broadcast meteorologist said that they got a lot of calls, non-stop since Friday morning...but they reported that the majority of callers just wanted someone to step them through rescanning, as many of them were older people, and weren't tech savvy. Was that your experience?

Over 600 repacked, 400 more to go nationwide!

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post #13071 of 13130 Old 10-21-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Peoria, Quad Cities and Rockford, IL are the next to repack in Phase 7. A Peoria PBS station will move in December, 2019 to avoid issues during the deep winter months; others in the market will move later. WIFR-TV in Rockford will move from 41 to 28; they hung the side-mounted antenna on October 15, 2019, IIRC, give or take a day; I saw a photo of the guys on the tower slapping it on. And WQRF will move from 42 to 36 in the next phase, date TBD.

One final random drive-by comment: Howizzit(tm) that I can pick up WBBM-2 better on WMEU-LD than on WBBM-DT 12 in DeKalb? Yeah, I know the answer...

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post #13072 of 13130 Old 10-21-2019, 12:46 PM
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Peoria, Quad Cities and Rockford, IL are the next to repack in Phase 7. A Peoria PBS station will move in December, 2019 to avoid issues during the deep winter months; others in the market will move later. WIFR-TV in Rockford will move from 41 to 28; they hung the side-mounted antenna on October 15, 2019, IIRC, give or take a day; I saw a photo of the guys on the tower slapping it on. And WQRF will move from 42 to 36 in the next phase, date TBD.

One final random drive-by comment: Howizzit(tm) that I can pick up WBBM-2 better on WMEU-LD than on WBBM-DT 12 in DeKalb? Yeah, I know the answer...
I just lost the Madisons to the repack, now it looks like I will lose WIFR as well. If I read the application correctly, they will be 15kW on RF28. But WISN is now 1mW on 28, so I don't think there's any chance I'll get WIFR.
As for the 2/48 thing, we use 48 to DVR my wife's soap opera daily but use 2 for her prime-time shows. The DVR's tuner is particularly weak and freaks out with every burst of impulse noise.
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post #13073 of 13130 Old 10-21-2019, 12:51 PM
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I've been getting the full-power Milwaukees for the last 10 years now, from a location just southwest of Cary. The one that gives me the most trouble is the PBS on RF8.
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post #13074 of 13130 Old 10-21-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sebenste View Post
Thanks, TVmicrowave, and thanks to you, HVSTRK. For those who don't know, these are the top engineers in Weigel Broadcasting. That they would spend their keystrokes on us is a blessing, to clear the air...and let uus know what is on the air, how and where.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sebenste View Post
I would be curious, guys, if you could let us all in on one thing: A Madison, WI broadcast meteorologist said that they got a lot of calls, non-stop since Friday morning...but they reported that the majority of callers just wanted someone to step them through rescanning, as many of them were older people, and weren't tech savvy. Was that your experience?
In dealings with all our affiliate stations all across the country, I would say the majority of the viewer complaints would be: A) "I've rescanned a million times and still can't find you." Followed by: B) "Where'd you go? You were here yesterday." Otherwise, I can't vouch for our poor front desk and their calls.

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Over 600 repacked, 400 more to go nationwide!
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post #13075 of 13130 Old 10-26-2019, 03:47 PM
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After Repack two channels sharing same RF Channel issues

Hi,

Both WFLD Chicago and WITI Milwaukee are now sharing RF channel 31. WFLD which is stringer and closer work fine and WITI breaks up. Prior to the rescan both worked fine. No other Milwaukee chanels have an issue.

I have two antennas one facing Milwaukee and one Chicago, a preamp, LTE filter and an antyenna combiner. Is it possible that combining these channels is causing my issue? If I remove the combiner will it fix the issue. Prior to all of this I had no issues.

JEDI144
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post #13076 of 13130 Old 10-26-2019, 04:12 PM
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You'll have to get a notch filter designed for RF 31 and put it on the antenna picking up the RF 31 channel you don't want before you combine the antennas.

Unfortunately a RF 31 notch filter will likely affect WTMJ on RF 32 too. It will likely affect WPXE on RF 30 too, but unless you care about their weekly public affairs show, you can get all the same programming via WCPX.


EDIT, just saw Trip's post. I wonder if you're getting cross-lake reception from WNIT South Bend when the conditions are right since they moved to RF 31, or if the Chicago antenna's back side reception of WITI is causing multi-path problems. Can you do a 110 mile search at rabbitears and post a link your results so we can have a better idea of what's going on where you are?

Are your LTE filters rated for 700 MHz or 600 MHz? WESV-LD went silent this week because T-Mobile wanted to launch their 600 MHz services in the area, which might cause some problems if you're close to a tower. (They have a CP to also move to RF 31 and were recently granted a STA to use their existing antenna on Thursday, but the only live bandscan in the vicinity appears to be out of range of WESV's signal)

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post #13077 of 13130 Old 10-26-2019, 04:37 PM
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WFLD was repacked to channel 24 and is not on 31.

- Trip
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post #13078 of 13130 Old 10-27-2019, 07:18 AM
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post #13079 of 13130 Old 10-27-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi144 View Post
Hi,

Both WFLD Chicago and WITI Milwaukee are now sharing RF channel 31. WFLD which is stringer and closer work fine and WITI breaks up. Prior to the rescan both worked fine. No other Milwaukee chanels have an issue.

I have two antennas one facing Milwaukee and one Chicago, a preamp, LTE filter and an antyenna combiner. Is it possible that combining these channels is causing my issue? If I remove the combiner will it fix the issue. Prior to all of this I had no issues.

JEDI144
Being in southwest Michigan, the recent repack also prevented reception of stations I previously received with two joined UHF antennas:

South Bend area stations on real frequencies 25, 30, and 35:
25 (RF 25), WCWW
28 (RF 30), WSJV
57 (RF 35), WBND

Chicago area stations on real frequencies 25, 30, and 35
11 (RF 25), WTTW
57 (RF 30), WDCI
66 (RF 35), WGBO

If I have my two joined HDB91X antennas pointing in their normal positions toward South Bend (147 degrees true) and Chicago (261 degrees true), I no longer receive ANY of the six stations above. Previously, WTTW, WSJV and WGBO had very strong signals. The low power South Bend stations WCWW and WBND always had at best an average signal strength before the repack.

I have found the stations I am now receiving post-repack have as good a signal strength, and is some cases better signal strength, than they had previously.
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post #13080 of 13130 Old 10-27-2019, 12:41 PM
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You are right about WFLD. In doing my research I found WFLD at 31 and WPWR at 24. It appears they switched. Anyway I climbed up on the roof today and removed the combiner and my problem is solved.

JEDI 144
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