Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 377 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11281 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Anyone have some recommendations on which one you would get if it was free from the list below in UHD. This is from Google Play so they're not HDR but maybe in the future?

Sausage Party
This Is The End
Chappie
Elysium
Captain Phillips
Fury
Concussion
The Night Before
The Wedding Ringer
The Other Guys
I got Chappie on the Sony Ultra app. It was in HDR, and I thought it was quite impressive visually, with sharpness and color. While the HDR will be missing and it might affect the colors, I found it to be pretty razor sharp in detail...that might come through. I could be wrong, but I think that was a native 4k movie...not sure about any of the others.

The movie itself isn't very good, and is downright cheezy for the most part. However, I found it a little more engaging than I was expecting...I didn't hate it. I was actually a bit surprised considering I didn't love District 9 and highly disliked Elysium.

I saw The Night Before on a plane, and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, but you probably have a pretty good idea if you like the movies from that crew or not. I thought it was a cut above the usual fare from those guys. I'm not sure how much 4k brings to the table, but I'd actually like to see it in HDR sometime, considering it takes place almost completely at night with a lot of colorful lights.

I've seen some of the others, don't have any real thoughts one way or another about how they'd be in 4k or eventually HDR. I don't see a really no-brainer great movie in the bunch.
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post #11282 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I'm just saying, at 20/20, you should be able to see all the detail 4K has to offer on a 65" screen at about 4.4ft. Any closer and you're just making individual pixels clearer, not actually seeing additional detail. Obviously if you don't quite have 20/20, then there will be a benefit.

For the full benefit of 4K, you'd need 190" at that distance, although you'd see a benefit over 1080p with any size over 95". Below that size and you're not even seeing 1080p worth of detail.

The calculation is based on the observation that the human eye can see approximately 300dpi at a distance of 1ft. Therefore, to find the dpi you can see at any distance, take 300, and divide it by that distance in ft.

Screen sizes are diagonal, so you need the diagonal resolution of 4K, which using the pythagorean theorem gives you 4,405.81434

Take that number and divide it by the dpi you found above, and you'll find the size you need to see the full detail of 4K. You can do this for any distance and resolution by manipulating some of the values, and can also find ideal distances for an existing screen by finding the dpi of the screen and then taking 300 divided by that number to find the distance.

At 8ft, on a 65" screen, you're seeing approximately 2124x1195 worth of resolution. Better than 1080p, but just barely. That's about where I sit from my screen, possibly even further, so that's why I focus on a good HDR experience myself.

For a 65" screen, I'd recommend a viewing distance between 5-8ft if you want to see more detail than 1080p, but not clearly see the individual pixels.

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Brings up an interesting thought I was having the other day. I'm also about 9+ feet from my 65", so I'm really all about the HDR. It's unlikely, as this is a family TV, that I'm ever going to have an arrangement for 6 foot viewing distances and still have a reasonable family room arrangement.

But I was thinking how often it's just me at night watching a movie after everyone's in bed. It would be nice to be able to have a comfortable way to adjust to a 6-7ft viewing distance. Main seating is a heavy recliner couch, so pulling it across the carpet isn't practical. Was wondering about the potential of some kind of folding or portable chair, yet something that was also going to be comfortable for 2-3 hours, so a folding lawn chair probably won't cut it.

Does anyone do anything to accommodate different viewing distances for different situations like that? Have some kind of flexible chair they use in that situation?
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post #11283 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by nclou View Post
Brings up an interesting thought I was having the other day. I'm also about 9+ feet from my 65", so I'm really all about the HDR. It's unlikely, as this is a family TV, that I'm ever going to have an arrangement for 6 foot viewing distances and still have a reasonable family room arrangement.

But I was thinking how often it's just me at night watching a movie after everyone's in bed. It would be nice to be able to have a comfortable way to adjust to a 6-7ft viewing distance. Main seating is a heavy recliner couch, so pulling it across the carpet isn't practical. Was wondering about the potential of some kind of folding or portable chair, yet something that was also going to be comfortable for 2-3 hours, so a folding lawn chair probably won't cut it.

Does anyone do anything to accommodate different viewing distances for different situations like that? Have some kind of flexible chair they use in that situation?
Maybe find a gaming chair or something like that, that you can easily move around the room.

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post #11284 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
What size screen at 13ft? Do you have a calculator for that determination?
Yes there are some online calculators. As morphinapg says it is to do with the visual acuity of the human eye. With 20-20 vision there is a maximum amount of detail you can resolve at a given distance. If you were an eagle, this would be more detail at the same distance.

Notes cribbed over the years:
I believe that for 20:20 vision the limit of visual acuity is one arc minute, which is equivalent to a pixel-width of 1.16 mm or 0.046 inch at a viewing distance of 4 metres. It is not uncommon for people, especially young people, to have much better resolution than that. The maximum human visual acuity is said to be around 30 seconds of arc or twice the 20/20 resolution.

http://referencehometheater.com/2013...4k-calculator/ has some figures but it's often more useful to see the ranges graphed out like below. The ranges are the "top" and "bottom" of each "fan line". At the top of each zone, you can only just detect any difference. At the bottom, you can fully see every pixel.

another one:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...ncemetric.html

another one:
https://www.avforums.com/article/tv-...ce-guide.10704
Quote:
In fact even the industry bodies involved can't agree on a single solution, so ultimately it should come down to personal preference.
this is my personal annotated version of their graph:


As you can see, at the distance I sit I "should" have bought a 65", but actually all I could afford/justify at the time (and I take the view that the tech is changing too quickly to make a big long-term investment) was the 55". However, I can definitely see a clear improvement with 4K over 1080p, so I'm very happy.

(This also shows why, IMHO, 8k in the home will be a waste of time. The size of screen I'd need is already completely off the scale, and would be double the size of my wall.)

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post #11285 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I'm just saying, at 20/20, you should be able to see all the detail 4K has to offer on a 65" screen at about 4.4ft. Any closer and you're just making individual pixels clearer, not actually seeing additional detail. Obviously if you don't quite have 20/20, then there will be a benefit.

[...]

For a 65" screen, I'd recommend a viewing distance between 5-8ft if you want to see more detail than 1080p, but not clearly see the individual pixels.
Very nicely explained. Cross-referencing to the avforums fan-chart, you can see that your "you should be able to see all the detail 4K has to offer" is bang on. And it's a little easier to see why it's good to aim for the "middle" of a band if you can - and your room / wall is big enough. There's a need to balance:

A1) The idea is that you want to benefit from the additional resolution so as to not see scan-lines or pixels, yet be able to see increasing finer detail in the source material. As such, you want to naturally get closer, but not too close.
A2) Getting 'too' close means you are allowing yourself to see the pixels and or scan-lines and that is a distraction and reducing the enjoyment of the viewing.
AND
B) Sitting too far back means your view can start to take in things not on the screen. If things off of the screen (e.g. speakers, accent plants, frame pictures, etc.) then you can again become distracted. Being distracted from the content reduces the level of enjoyment because you are no longer engulfed or immersed in the content. So, sitting too far back can lead to other kinds of distractions, and this sets up another boundary. [THX seating distance 1.5 x width of screen]
AND
C) How good/bad/silly the TV looks compared to the size of the wall it's on and the room it's in
AND
F) Cost
AND
G) Eyesight

etc!
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post #11286 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:22 PM
 
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Don't forget HDR, like resolution, lose it's goodness when you sit too far.

The perceived contrast ratio from the TV is reduced because of the external light source... Aka your pupil will adapt to external light reducing the capacity to see all the nuance.

There's still the wide color gamut left...
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post #11287 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:28 PM
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Yes. But at eight feet away you are too far away to see all the detail. Although I would think it's actually a sliding scale at both ends.
I hate these "optimal viewing" scales and graphs. 4.4 ft from a 65" screen is pretty much unpractical in the majority of viewing setups. I couldn't see sitting that close to a tv for the 8+ hours I'm watching NFL on Sundays. I might be able to do a 2 hour movie, but not general tv viewing.


I'm close to 9ft from my 65" set and I can see the difference in detail between 4K and 1080p.


All this is just my opinion.
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post #11288 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
I hate these "optimal viewing" scales and graphs. 4.4 ft from a 65" screen is pretty much unpractical in the majority of viewing setups. I also couldn't see sitting that close to a tv for the 8+ hours I'm watching NFL on Sundays. I might be able to do a 2 hour movie, but not general tv viewing.





I'm close to 9ft from my 65" set and I can see the difference in detail between 4K and 1080p.





All this is just my opinion.


I sit about 12-13" away from my 55" and I can see the difference from my 50" Plasma.
Those scales and graphs sound more like marketing material to sell bigger screens.


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post #11289 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Don't forget HDR, like resolution, lose it's goodness when you sit too far.

The perceived contrast ratio from the TV is reduced because of the external light source... Aka your pupil will adapt to external light reducing the capacity to see all the nuance.

There's still the wide color gamut left...
Well as long as you sit in a dark room to watch HDR, that shouldn't be a problem.

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post #11290 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Well as long as you sit in a dark room to watch HDR, that shouldn't be a problem.

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Yes it's just usually more difficult to control light source in big room full of kids
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post #11291 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
I hate these "optimal viewing" scales and graphs. 4.4 ft from a 65" screen is pretty much unpractical in the majority of viewing setups. I couldn't see sitting that close to a tv for the 8+ hours I'm watching NFL on Sundays. I might be able to do a 2 hour movie, but not general tv viewing.


I'm close to 9ft from my 65" set and I can see the difference in detail between 4K and 1080p.


All this is just my opinion.
Do you get NFL in 4K? If not then it's fine to sit further. While it's possible you could see the difference at that distance, it's unlikely unless your vision is a bit better than average.

Now, for video games it's a different issue. If a game has poor anti aliasing at 1080p, then there will be a big difference at 4K at just about say distance. However, if the AA is good, like Uncharted 4, then there's not much of a difference without HDR unless you're up close.

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post #11292 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
I sit about 12-13" away from my 55" and I can see the difference from my 50" Plasma.
Those scales and graphs sound more like marketing material to sell bigger screens.


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They're based on the science of the resolving power of lenses. It's a well understood science, used especially for the creation of telescopes to ensure they have enough resolution to make out the details they were intended to. The human eye is very similar to other lenses, and it has been measured to have a resolving power of about one arc minute, or about 300dpi at a distance of 1ft. That's actually where the "retina display" standards come from.

Not trying to be rude, but at those distances and size, you're probably getting a placebo effect.

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post #11293 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
They're based on the science of the resolving power of lenses. It's a well understood science, used especially for the creation of telescopes to ensure they have enough resolution to make out the details they were intended to. The human eye is very similar to other lenses, and it has been measured to have a resolving power of about one arc minute, or about 300dpi at a distance of 1ft. That's actually where the "retina display" standards come from.

Not trying to be rude, but at those distances and size, you're probably getting a placebo effect.

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So now you're telling me what I can and can't see?
You can trust your charts and I'll trust my eyes!


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post #11294 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:47 PM
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Is it me or are the many posts re distance from display a bit off topic?


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post #11295 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
So now you're telling me what I can and can't see?
You can trust your charts and I'll trust my eyes!


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I'm just saying science has a pretty clear understanding of these things. Of course some people have better than 20/20 vision, but many people will think they're seeing better just because it's a nicer TV. When I bought my first HDTV, a 1080i CRT, I immediately was amazed by the way it looked. It wasn't until a few months later that I realized my cable box was set to 480i instead of 1080i. We can be easily convinced we're seeing a better image just because other aspects of the TV are better, when we're not actually seeing more detail. 1080p still has a lot of detail in it.

I've measured my own eyes and they lined up pretty close to where the science said they should.

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post #11296 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin_cse View Post
Are those the options for the free movie if you buy a Chromecast Ultra deal?
There are a few others but I already have them so won't be buying. Besides the 10 I listed above, the other 5 are:

Ghostbusters
Ghostbusters 2016
The Fifth Element
The 5th Wave
The Shallows

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post #11297 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:57 PM
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Is it me or are the many posts re distance from display a bit off topic?
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Yes it is definitely off topic - why don't you people get a room and discuss it amongst yourselves!

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post #11298 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nclou View Post
I got Chappie on the Sony Ultra app. It was in HDR, and I thought it was quite impressive visually, with sharpness and color. While the HDR will be missing and it might affect the colors, I found it to be pretty razor sharp in detail...that might come through. I could be wrong, but I think that was a native 4k movie...not sure about any of the others.

The movie itself isn't very good, and is downright cheezy for the most part. However, I found it a little more engaging than I was expecting...I didn't hate it. I was actually a bit surprised considering I didn't love District 9 and highly disliked Elysium.

I saw The Night Before on a plane, and actually enjoyed it quite a bit, but you probably have a pretty good idea if you like the movies from that crew or not. I thought it was a cut above the usual fare from those guys. I'm not sure how much 4k brings to the table, but I'd actually like to see it in HDR sometime, considering it takes place almost completely at night with a lot of colorful lights.

I've seen some of the others, don't have any real thoughts one way or another about how they'd be in 4k or eventually HDR. I don't see a really no-brainer great movie in the bunch.
I'm leaning towards "Fury" because I hear it's a great movie. I didn't really like Chappie or Elysium either. I saw "This is the End" and thought it was Ok for a one-time watch but don't think I want to see it again. Not a really great list to choose from as you mentioned.

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post #11299 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
I'm just saying science has a pretty clear understanding of these things. Of course some people have better than 20/20 vision, but many people will think they're seeing better just because it's a nicer TV. When I bought my first HDTV, a 1080i CRT, I immediately was amazed by the way it looked. It wasn't until a few months later that I realized my cable box was set to 480i instead of 1080i. We can be easily convinced we're seeing a better image just because other aspects of the TV are better, when we're not actually seeing more detail. 1080p still has a lot of detail in it.

I've measured my own eyes and they lined up pretty close to where the science said they should.

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I couldn't tell the difference between 720pand 1080p from my sitting distance but can tell 1080p from 2160p. With Blu-Ray versions vs UHD Blu-Ray versions as well as 4k streaming of the same movie vs 1080p by limiting my Fire TV 4k boxes output resolution.


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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
So now you're telling me what I can and can't see?
You can trust your charts and I'll trust my eyes!


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post #11301 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tmdorsey View Post
I hate these "optimal viewing" scales and graphs. 4.4 ft from a 65" screen is pretty much unpractical in the majority of viewing setups. I couldn't see sitting that close to a tv for the 8+ hours I'm watching NFL on Sundays. I might be able to do a 2 hour movie, but not general tv viewing.


I'm close to 9ft from my 65" set and I can see the difference in detail between 4K and 1080p.


All this is just my opinion.
Yes you can see the difference but you aren't able to see all of the difference in detail at that distance. That's all I meant. For broadcast content, like NFL games, I sit 6 feet away. it's only UHD BD or 3D BD content that i will be around four feet away.

But i still think HDR is the biggest improvement. That is what really gave me the Wow factor. I'm glad there is a thread somewhere that has info about all of the available 4k HDR titles.

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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Now, for video games it's a different issue. If a game has poor anti aliasing at 1080p, then there will be a big difference at 4K at just about say distance. However, if the AA is good, like Uncharted 4, then there's not much of a difference without HDR unless you're up close.

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Video game is like you said another issue.

It's all about how graphic processing is done. A 1080p movies with real image has no aliasing, a game at 1080p has a lot for the same screen size.

How Disney do it is they make their 3d film in 4k-8k and than downsample them to 1080p to eliminate the aliasing.

Our anti aliasing technique are usually trivial and the only good solution is downsampling... However it take as much power as running at a higher definition.

Anyway long story short. 4k is visible on video games at a much higher distance.

Personally I sit 4 feet from my 55"and can't see much difference between 4k and HD, it's all about placebo. However for video game the difference is amazing

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post #11303 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 05:18 PM
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Planet Earth II 4K preview

Virgin TV V6 - is this a US product?

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/13...a-sky-q-beater

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post #11304 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
Video game is like you said another issue.



It's all about how graphic processing is done. A 1080p movies with real image has no aliasing, a game at 1080p has a lot for the same screen size.



How Disney do it is they make their 3d film in 4k-8k and than downsample them to 1080p to eliminate the aliasing.



Our anti aliasing technique are usually trivial and the only good solution is downsampling... However it take as much power as running at a higher definition.



Anyway long story short. 4k is visible on video games at a much higher distance.



Personally I sit 4 feet from my 55"and can't see much difference between 4k and HD, it's all about placebo. However for video game the difference is amazing


If you can't tell the difference from 4' away then there's something wrong with your eyes. 4x the resolution right there!


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post #11305 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 05:31 PM
 
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If you can't tell the difference from 4' away then there's something wrong with your eyes. 4x the resolution right there!


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No, I have 22 20.

I see the difference but it's relatively small.

Sometimes I think I'm watching 4k but it's just full HD filmed with Red epic dragon or something like that.
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post #11306 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 06:31 PM
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For the love of Pete's Dragon, can you guys please take the "how much resolution can you see at what distance" discussion/debate to any of the dozens of other threads where it's already been discussed/debated ad nauseam?

XOXO
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post #11307 of 28564 Old 12-08-2016, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Virgin TV V6 - is this a US product?

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/13...a-sky-q-beater
Virgin is the UK cable network. The Virgin TV V6 is their new cable box.

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post #11308 of 28564 Old 12-09-2016, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by williamwallace View Post
For the love of Pete's Dragon, can you guys please take the "how much resolution can you see at what distance" discussion/debate to any of the dozens of other threads where it's already been discussed/debated ad nauseam?

XOXO
This thread is about discussing how 4K movies look, and viewing distance and size is a big factor in that. It's about as on topic as you can get.

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post #11309 of 28564 Old 12-09-2016, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
This thread is about discussing how 4K movies look, and viewing distance and size is a big factor in that. It's about as on topic as you can get.

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I'd say it's a little off topic, but the arguing back and forth about it is getting annoying because nobody is going to win.
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Amazon has added Mozart in the Jungle Season 3.

Not a huge fan of the tv show, but episode 1 Season 3 looks fanfreakentastic. It blows way season 1 and 2 and imo is now 1 of the top hdr shows for PQ, just gorgious and vivid, somewhere over in Venice, Italy, and wow is it a beautiful place.

Anyone looking for some impressive eye candy, it starts right out of the gate with episode 1. I'd say it's in the same league as grand tour, but with no cars
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