Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 414 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12391 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powpow View Post
Forums have different threads for a reason. I come to this one for updates on available 4K titles. This DV/HDR discussion needs its own thread. It's a waste of time for people who aren't interested and just want title updates....read the thread title.
I agree 100%. I come to this thread for discussion on 4K HDR *TITLES* hence the thread title, not more scientific discussions, debate, and arguing of DV vs. HDR10, color spaces, etc. Those discussions belong elsewhere and just muddy up this thread. They have their place... just not here.

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post #12392 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 02:53 PM
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Post number one is updated by Ray very often. All the known releases go in there. If al you want is to see what is coming out it's all there.

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post #12393 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Yes, the file info in the Oppo matches; this is the downloaded file, played via a flash drive in the front USB of the Oppo (the other mentioned demos are played the same way). MY TV does go into HDR mode (see attached).
Okay, I'm looking into it. I hope to have an upload for you to try shortly.
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HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #12394 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Yes, the file info in the Oppo matches; this is the downloaded file, played via a flash drive in the front USB of the Oppo (the other mentioned demos are played the same way). MY TV does go into HDR mode (see attached).
I note it says 709, not 2020?
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post #12395 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Thank you, working on others, coming soon. :-) Not sure why it looks different though, nothing changed. Also not sure whether you are referring to the download version or the YouTube version.
Downloaded and played via various USB devices.
# 1 HU9000 + Original OCB - No HDR, PQ was dark, and lacking detail.
# 2 Hu9000 + SEK-3500U - HDR, everything lightened up.
# 3 HU9000 + SEK-3500U + FW updates. Samsung has made the system brighter looking , and improved PQ re colors and contrast, resulting in final presentations that most are quite happy with.
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post #12396 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powpow View Post
Idea: You guys can create a "Master HDR thread" and we can use this one for the stated purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powpow View Post
Forums have different threads for a reason. I come to this one for updates on available 4K titles. This DV/HDR discussion needs its own thread. It's a waste of time for people who aren't interested and just want title updates....read the thread title.
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Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post
I agree 100%. I come to this thread for discussion on 4K HDR *TITLES* hence the thread title, not more scientific discussions, debate, and arguing of DV vs. HDR10, color spaces, etc. Those discussions belong elsewhere and just muddy up this thread. They have their place... just not here.
If you don't want to read any HDR "discussion" then you can simply only check the 1st post which is continuously updated. Peace unto you. ✌️

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38853641
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
4k Blu rays are here, and HDR content is slowly trickling out to various streaming sites as well. And theres really no way to get updated on what gets added, so I decided to make a master list, that along with all you guys, we can keep track of what is available and where to get it from.

So whenever something new is added, post it up in here, and I'll edit this 1st post to reflect the newly added HDR content! And when something new is added, I will bold it in RED so it's easier to see.
Spoiler!
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post #12397 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
I note it says 709, not 2020?
yes, that is what the Oppo is reporting it is sending; it's triggering HDR, we're just trying to figure out why it is switching to BT709 (if that is what it's doing).

Above that, this is what it says about the file:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CameraZOOM-20170107191718555.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	117.6 KB
ID:	1881249  

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post #12398 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 04:36 PM
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Just had a moment where I couldn't remember what topic thread I was in. Let the questioning of my intelligence commence. But this thread is getting a little off the rails to me.


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post #12399 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Just had a moment where I couldn't remember what topic thread I was in. Let the questioning of my intelligence commence. But this thread is getting a little off the rails to me.


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I agree. Too technical and becoming cluttered. Mods have given many warnings In the past. Last time they did a thread cleanup they deleted 2 weeks and 20 pages as 1 giant cleanup, id rather that not happen again.

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post #12400 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:09 PM
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Got Magnificent 7 today! Im excited to test this out and also hear the atmos soundtrack.

Anyone see it and recommend some timestamps i should pay special attention too?
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post #12401 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Samurai G0SU View Post
Got Magnificent 7 today! Im excited to test this out and also hear the atmos soundtrack.

Anyone see it and recommend some timestamps i should pay special attention too?


I've watched it and was pretty impressed. Detail was great had a good film grain to it. Didn't really care for the color filter they used, but that's personal taste. Just waiting for studios to consistently give movies a 4K DI. It sucks knowing that it could've looked even better.


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post #12402 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Samurai G0SU View Post
Got Magnificent 7 today! Im excited to test this out and also hear the atmos soundtrack.

Anyone see it and recommend some timestamps i should pay special attention too?
I really enjoyed The Magnificent Seven. It was one of the first UHD HDR Atmos disks I played on my Oppo UDP-203. The film is hardly Deathless Art but it does have an excellent cast and it looks and sounds great. It's hard to go wrong with Denzel, Chris Pratt, and Atmos audio.
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post #12403 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
If you don't want to read any HDR "discussion" then you can simply only check the 1st post which is continuously updated. Peace unto you. ✌️
Really?!! Golly gee, thanks Captain Obvious! I had no idea this thread even had a first post!








Seriously?

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post #12404 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:24 PM
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Hey @ray0414 , sorry if we're getting a little off topic with regard to @Tom Roper 's demo clip, but it's in the interest of possible future HDR demo clips from him, and I believe you once posted earlier in the thread that all HDR discussion is welcome

Besides, right now new releases are a little slow, much to my dismay

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post #12405 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
PCM and Dolby Digital weren't just first, they were the mandatory supported standard. DTS was an option...as far as being better, louder is not better and to be truly better you need equal or better performance at the same or lower bit rate - just like AVC over MPEG2 in the video realm.
Since the performance wasn't there studios like Fox or Paramount would add DTS as an additional track on their double-dip titles. But it was never widely adopted until Blu-ray.


The size requirements are not large - up to a maximum of 25%. Being dynamic means your bitrate could be .1% more at certain times.
Yes. DTS was just a less efficient codec than DD. It required a much higher bitrate to achieve the same quality as DD did.

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post #12406 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Yes. DTS was just a less efficient codec than DD. It required a much higher bitrate to achieve the same quality as DD did.
From Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-tec...of-the-formats

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What's the Bit Idea?

In order to minimize the limited space allocated on a DVD for audio soundtracks, DD and DTS utilize lossy data reduction algorithms, which reduce the number of bits needed to encode an audio signal. DD compresses a 5.1 channel surround track to 384 kbps to 448 kbps (DVD Standard limited, DD has the potential of up to 640 kbps) while DTS uses much higher bit rates up to 1.4 Mbps for CD's / LD's and 1.5 Mbps for DVD. A higher bit rate must imply DTS will be superior sounding right? In theory, the less compression used in the encoding process, the more realistic the sound will be, as it will better represent the original source. DD tends to boast that its encoding method is more efficient than DTS and thus does not require the extra bit rates. However, even if DD is slightly more efficient, it is still not 1.5 / .448 = 3.35 times more efficient.. However, both DD & DTS will boast data rates, efficiency, etc, but what actually translates to better sound is a very ambiguous matter as there are more factors involved here that goes beyond the scope of this article.
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post #12407 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galonzo View Post
Hey @ray0414 , sorry if we're getting a little off topic with regard to @Tom Roper 's demo clip, but it's in the interest of possible future HDR demo clips from him, and I believe you once posted earlier in the thread that all HDR discussion is welcome

Besides, right now new releases are a little slow, much to my dismay
File is uploading 8 minutes left.
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HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #12408 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
I'm not comapring 1.5Mb/s DTS to 448Kb/s DD. That is obviously better. It's the 768kb/s DTS that was basically equivalent to the 448kb/s DD that was on DVDs. 448Kb/s was the max bitrate for DD on DVDs. With Bluray Dics I think it is 640Kb/s. Or somewhere around there.

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post #12409 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 06:32 PM
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post #12410 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Like others, they tend to assume DD & DTS work pretty much exactly the same way...which they don't (as I mentioned before, DTS allots its bits to each channel the same so silence gets the same bitrate as a peak audio event). AC-4 is even more radically different and has unbelievable low bitrates in comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I'm not comapring 1.5Mb/s DTS to 448Kb/s DD. That is obviously better. It's the 768kb/s DTS that was basically equivalent to the 448kb/s DD that was on DVDs. 448Kb/s was the max bitrate for DD on DVDs. With Bluray Dics I think it is 640Kb/s. Or somewhere around there.

768kbps DTS actually starts filtering out high frequencies 15kHz and above at that rate, something 448kbps DD does not do (320kbps is when DD starts losing fidelity). Most adults don't notice because their high frequency hearing abilities has dulled.

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post #12411 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 06:55 PM
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Yes, sorry for the thread-jack but thanks to galonzo, he pointed out a flaw in the metadata that had been a nagging question for me. To explain, the Grays Peak video was uploaded in 2015 and was among the first HDR offerings available anywhere. So new was my JS8500 at the time, Samsung wouldn't even mention that it had HDR capability at all. The tools for creating HDR content at the time were different and so was the landscape. UHD Blu-ray was still under discussion, UHD premium certification did not exist. No consumer TV was capable of satisfying even P3 color, and it came as a surprise when UHD Blu-ray announced that they had finalized on BT.2020. I didn't have any help in plodding through the process of coding the metadata and part of the discovery to make the TV kick into HDR mode required specifying BT.2020 primaries in the metadata, so I thought all the bases were covered. Many of the other HEVC VUI (video usability information) parameters were optional including one for color matrix which I left unspecified. It was not easy at first to know which of these optional VUI parameters were actually used and which were unnecessary. I was already providing mastering display RGB and white point coefficients, max and average content light levels, the transfer function, but falling through the cracks was color matrix which tells the encoder which transfer function to use to generate the luminance coefficients. And so thanks to galonzo's info from the Oppo player, it is discovered that the color matrix left undefined defaults to BT.709; unintended.

The Grays Peak video was uploaded to YouTube last month upon the announcement of HDR support, and in the short time has generated almost 30,000 views so I will not be replacing the YouTube upload.

But as an AVSforum exclusive, I make available for download the Grays Peak video with color matrix BT.2020 non-constant. I have some disclaimers to make about it. It's vivid, noticeably more so than the original. I think it's possible that some will love it, but for me if I had known this I would have graded the color a little more conservatively. So this remains an unofficial version, which I think is okay because even the original was intended only as a demonstration. I watched the remake, adjusted to it after a few viewings and calmed down after the first beer. So let me know what you think of it, and thank you for tolerating the topic disruption.

Download link here, --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7w...ew?usp=sharing

Best,
Tom

Edit! I made a change to the ACES output transform to correct the oversaturated reds. The download link has been replaced. The file above is now really beautiful, and full ST.2084/BT.2020 compliant. Note also, the file although tagged as 4:2:0, is actually 4:2:2 containing twice the chroma samples.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS

Last edited by Tom Roper; 01-08-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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post #12412 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^welp looks like I'll give this a quick download! I loved the 1st 1 so I'll let you know what I think. What monitor are to u using to grade? Still have the js8500?

I don't mind some hdr discussion here and there (and won't anger the mods either), but sometimes a discussions branches off and turns into something else and just keeps branching off. We gotta be careful of that for we don't want another 20 page cleanup!
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post #12413 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Right I think it's well known that DV requires a different grading process than HDR10 by itself. From some of the early press releases and info Dolby made it seem like grading for DV and outputting both a DV and HDR10 compatible encode is possible. The way they made it seem originally is that DV handles the HDR10 metadata with certain base values and then on top of that allows scene by scene values catered to the specific TV in use. I'm sure they have thought about this in regard to UHD Blu-Ray and made it possible for a studio to grade their movie for HDR once but retain compatibility with HDR10 only players and TVs. Movies not graded for DV will have to be re-graded using Dolby's tools if the studio wants to release a Dolby Vision version but can still retain HDR10 compatibility in the end. If not then it seems like a huge waste of resources to regrade at all.
You know what's a waste of resources? Not updating all the current players to support DV. Because if you did that, then you wouldn't need both formats at all, or any enhancement layers of any kind. All you'd need is the DV encode, as while the two systems often do have different grades (probably due to the different peak nits chosen), they don't necessarily have to. You can have a dolby vision movie decoded by a player and then "translated" to HDR10 using metadata telling it where to cap the max nits at. You could probably also have another piece of metadata which guides the tone mapping process further, similar to the lookup table information you can provide to youtube to automate the HDR-to-SDR downconversion process while retaining your preferred SDR grade.

Basically, you'd just decode the DV video, and reformat the colors to match the provided target HDR10 metadata on the player, and then send that as HDR10 to the TV. It's funny, because that kind of conversion is easily possible, while the other way around requires all this complicated enhancement layer stuff that just ends up wasting space in the end. And honestly, I don't see any reason why current players would be incapable of that. They're all firmware upgradeable, and would take minimal processing to handle it.

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Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
"In an example embodiment, the base layer image data under techniques as described herein comprises a specific constitution of a lower-bit depth version of VDR image data and the remaining difference between base layer and the original VDR image is carried in the enhancement layer."
That's almost exactly the same process as 3D Blu-ray...

Quote:
"The image data may comprise base layer image data of a lower bit depth quantized from a higher bit depth (e.g., 12+ bits) VDR image and carried in a base layer image container (a YCbCr 4:2:0 image container), and enhancement layer image data comprising residual values between the VDR image and a prediction frame generated from the base layer image data. The base layer image data and the enhancement layer image data may be received and used by the downstream device to reconstruct a higher bit depth (12+ bits) version of the VDR image."
The problem is, you can't just convert from 10bit to 12 bit, or there's no benefit. You actually have to add the extra information in those higher bits. But not only that, you need to convert the levels, as levels change wildly in DV encodes while they remain fairly consistent in HDR10 encodes (hence, static metadata). So you have to change the levels by a large degree, inconsistently throughout the movie, and then you have to add a bunch of detail that wasn't there already. I'm not saying the process is impossible, just that it wouldn't be very efficient due to the vast amount of very different new information you have to account for in the DV stream.

Thanks for the patent link though, I'll have to have a read through that to see if it answers any of my remaining questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
1023 = 10,000 nits (No known display)
920 = 4,000 nits (peak luminance on Dolby Pulsar monitor)
844 = 2,000 nits (peak luminance on Dolby PRM32FHD)
767 - 1000 nits (peak luminance on Sony BVMX300)
528 = 108 nits (peak luminance on Dolby Cinema projector)
519 = 100 nits
447 = 48 nits (peak luminance on DCI projection and Dolby Cinema 3D)
0 = 0 nits

The relationship between the 10 bit code value to nits follows the transfer function of the PQ curve. All you have to do get the equivalent 12 bit code value for any given nits is multiply times 4. (Bit shift left 2)

I am not saying you are wrong nor right in your bit rate calculations but you are definitely wrong about the 100 nit level being a different percentage for 10 bit than for 12, or different between HDR10 and DV. Both use the exact same PQ transfer function.
This is only true if the HDR10 encode was mastered for 10,000 nits, but it also doesn't take into account the dynamic nature of Dolby Vision. Dolby Vision doesn't use the same max nits for every frame like HDR10 does, so the conversion doesn't work the same for every scene. One scene may only be 200nits bright, so it uses peak nits of 200nits on the DV encode, while the HDR10 encode remains at 2000 nits, or whatever was chosen for that movie. So in that scene, the 100nit level would be 50% of the max nits for the scene, but would also be 5% of the max nits for the full movie (obviously converted to logarithmic values), that's why the relationship changes scene to scene on a DV encode vs HDR10. HDR10 pixels are graded based on the max nits for the full movie while DV pixels are graded based on the max nits for the scene. That's what you're not taking into account. Now if it was a simple 12bit static metadata situation (basically HDR12 instead of DV), that would be a much easier problem to solve

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I agree 100%. I come to this thread for discussion on 4K HDR *TITLES* hence the thread title, not more scientific discussions, debate, and arguing of DV vs. HDR10, color spaces, etc. Those discussions belong elsewhere and just muddy up this thread. They have their place... just not here.
This discussion is relevant to those titles as many of them are going to be receiving DV encodes in the future. Understanding how this technology works is important to making decisions about those future titles. While there are many benefits to Dolby Vision, I started much of this tangent because I was worried about how the extra encoded data on these UHD discs is going to potentially negatively impact the experience, rather than enhance it, due to over compression. It's also relevant because I think it's fair to be a bit annoyed that there haven't been much in the way of news about DV upgrades for those of us who were early adopters to the UHD format and bought the first players. Which is basically most of the people in this thread. Aside from the Oppo 203 of course.
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post #12414 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 09:24 PM
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I hope La La Land gets an HDR release. Such a beautiful movie, it really deserves one.

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post #12415 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Samurai G0SU View Post
Got Magnificent 7 today! Im excited to test this out and also hear the atmos soundtrack.

Anyone see it and recommend some timestamps i should pay special attention too?


I've watched it and was pretty impressed. Detail was great had a good film grain to it. Didn't really care for the color filter they used, but that's personal taste. Just waiting for studios to consistently give movies a 4K DI. It sucks knowing that it could've looked even better.


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Originally Posted by Samurai G0SU View Post
Got Magnificent 7 today! Im excited to test this out and also hear the atmos soundtrack.

Anyone see it and recommend some timestamps i should pay special attention too?
I really enjoyed The Magnificent Seven. It was one of the first UHD HDR Atmos disks I played on my Oppo UDP-203. The film is hardly Deathless Art but it does have an excellent cast and it looks and sounds great. It's hard to go wrong with Denzel, Chris Pratt, and Atmos audio.
Just finished it. I think there might have been an issue with my xbox one s and this title. There was a haze or yellow/gold filter and it was darker than i think it should have been. I also noticed a lot of soft scenes. Atmos track didnt play and i had to change the language for it to engage and then i switched it back to english.

Ill mess around with it later i suppose.
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post #12416 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post
Really?!! Golly gee, thanks Captain Obvious! I had no idea this thread even had a first post!

Seriously?
Guilty as charged!

This is definitely one of my favorite threads!
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post #12417 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 10:31 PM
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Thanks @Tom Roper , the Oppo readout for output is now showing as expected. In addition, even though this new version does appear a hair vibrant on my calibrated display (well, as far as it can be calibrated anyway; which, for HDR on the 2015 Sammys, is only 2pt grayscale), it is much closer to that "looking through a window" look than the old version (don't get me wrong, it was always a go-to clip for post-calibration reference for me anyway). Looking forward to your next HDR demo clip (perhaps you could exclusive-release us the higher bitrate download here? ).

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post #12418 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
This discussion is relevant to those titles as many of them are going to be receiving DV encodes in the future. Understanding how this technology works is important to making decisions about those future titles. While there are many benefits to Dolby Vision, I started much of this tangent because I was worried about how the extra encoded data on these UHD discs is going to potentially negatively impact the experience, rather than enhance it, due to over compression. It's also relevant because I think it's fair to be a bit annoyed that there haven't been much in the way of news about DV upgrades for those of us who were early adopters to the UHD format and bought the first players. Which is basically most of the people in this thread. Aside from the Oppo 203 of course.
I'm willing to bet the farm that existing UHD BR players will not be upgraded to support Dolby Vision. The only players that could potentially get an upgrade would be the Xbox One S and PS4 Pro (streaming only). I doubt we will see it unless they find a way to pass the DV license fee on to users based on optional activation.

After this year's CES Samsung, Panasonic, and Philips are going to have to take a hard look at their lineup. I'll be surprised if Panny doesn't about face and support DV. Philips players seem to be low budget so who knows. Samsung is the big question mark. I foresee them losing market share until they concede to adding DV. Hopefully the chipsets in their 2016 & 2017 models to support flash upgrade.
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post #12419 of 26769 Old 01-07-2017, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
That's right! To use an analogy, the speedometer on some cars goes up to 180, on other 120 yet we can still drive below those limits on either. And so it goes with HDR grading. We don't push the pedal to the floor on every scene just because we can. We still have conventional grading tools to make the peak brightness of any scene anything we want it to be. This fact gets trampled over in the hue and cry for dynamic scene-by-scene metadata by voices who don't know the real need for it.



To explain, in Dolby Vision we have the base layer and the enhanced layer. The base layer is the HDR10 layer that was graded on the mastering monitor. The enhanced layer therefore is really a misnomer because the 'enhancement' is in actuality a downscaling of the HDR10 layer to fit what the consumer display can do. By mastering on 4000 nit Dolby Pulsar monitors with an eye toward doing the same on a future as yet non-existent 10,000 nit monitor, (ironic these are 1080p btw), patent holders are cementing a future for permanent downward 'enhancement' to consumer display standards by necessity. Think about that.



HDR10 *is* the FULL HDR. If we master on monitors that more reasonably align with the state of the art in consumer displays, you don't need dual layers nor dynamic metadata for HDR. Dynamic metadata is needed because we are not.


If something is mastered at 4,000 nits on the Dolby pulsar, HDR10 is absolutely not the full HDR master. The master is 16bit .tiff files, and since DV is 12bit w/dynamic metadata, how can you say HDR10 is the "Full HDR" ?
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post #12420 of 26769 Old 01-08-2017, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
If something is mastered at 4,000 nits on the Dolby pulsar, HDR10 is absolutely not the full HDR master. The master is 16bit .tiff files, and since DV is 12bit w/dynamic metadata, how can you say HDR10 is the "Full HDR" ?
Hi Tyler,
So we don't clutter this topic, I will reply in the other debate topic. Thanks.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post49676905
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