Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 431 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12901 of 30472 Old 01-31-2017, 02:03 PM
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Here for example, is a stream I downloaded from the YouTube HDR Channel using the youtube-dl command line program, and the command -f 337 [+ the link for the video]

i.e. for this particular Christmas Lights at the Zoo video one would type in a command line such as
c:\youtube-dl -f 337 h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Bf3mq1Or8

It should download the UHD HDR YouTube stream to your PC. I believe if you were to choose -f 313 instead of -f 337 it would download the SDR UHD version.

Real 4K HDR: Christmas Lights at the Zoo in HDR UHD (Chromecast Ultra)
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Bf3mq1Or8

To view this video in real HDR you need a 4K HDR TV and a device with YouTube HDR such as Chromecast Ultra. YouTube HDR is also available on some Samsung TVs such as the KS7, KS8, and KS9 series with up-to-date firmware.
.................................................. ....
Here are two screenshots, one in MPC-HC and the other in VLC, showing the file I downloaded from YT is VP9 profile 2 10bit.
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post #12902 of 30472 Old 01-31-2017, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
I just uploaded the world's most boring HDR demo clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr404b76WX0



It plays in UHD HDR on the Chromecast Ultra.



It is a collection of stuff we shot for 8K resolution testing, but I decided to grade them for HDR UHD.



More info:
U


This is a HDR video test clip, it is a handful of single frames shot on a RED Weapon 8K Vista Vision camera. The frames were exported as 8K 16x9 16bit TIFFs from REDCINEX beta using IPP2. The TIFFs were then graded for HDR in Davinci Resolve @1000 nits and exported as UHD/HDR.


Looked terrific on my KS9800. Extremely 3D and vibrant. Feel free to do more!

How much work goes into HDR grading such as this? Is it pretty simple?
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post #12903 of 30472 Old 01-31-2017, 07:03 PM
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I didn't think the video quality was anything to call home about but thought the movie was better than others have posted on this thread. Let us know what you think after watching. I only have the Vudu digital UHD copy so I don't know if the disc is any better?
Just saw Jack Reacher Never Go back. I agree with you that the transfer quality isn't really anything special. There is nice deep color and good sharpness in close ups and long distance shots. Maybe one or two softish shots, but nothing too bad. Great HDR in the end with lots of cop lights and every outdoor shot in daytime hours looks really strong. Flowers and grass really pop as they run through parks and stuff. Night shots in New Orleans looked good, the neon signs looked great. But it had elevated black levels the whole film. It left darker scenes looking flat like when they're in cars at night. Really reminded me of batman v Superman, the party scenes, really grey milky blacks. But I liked it overall and would recommend it over The Accountant picture quality wise(though I would prob rewatch Accountant before this). But other recent releases like Inferno , Magnificent 7, Miss Peregrine's and Deepwater Horizon have much better quality I think...

As far as the film itself I liked it for the most part. Not as bad as critics would make you think, but it still had problems. Im sure the book would be better and fill some plot holes and coincidences...Tom Cruise gives it his all and I like him in just about everything. The character is the best part by far, they just need to pair him with a little better film if they ever get another shot...
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post #12904 of 30472 Old 01-31-2017, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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gotta give my vote for INFERNO for looking great as a 2k upscale. Yes, its a Sony movie, but i think the credit for some of these best of the best 2k upscales needs to go to the camera used: Arri Alexa XT, which is used in the very best 2k upscales. Its just a great camera with a ton of dynamic range and a very sharp picture.

Some of the very popular 2k upscales that I see alot of people mention for "looking near true 4k", all use the Arri Alexa XT camera:

Inferno
The Shallows
Ghostbusters 2016
Huntsman: Winters War
Central Intelligence
Kingsman

Honorable Mention 2k AAXT:

Concussion
Creed


For future reference, keep an eye on movies that use the XT as their main camera, for both 2k and 4k mastered movies.




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post #12905 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 07:20 AM
 
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saw jack reacher in DV on vudu. looked alright.

can't help but just not really be blown away most of the 4k UHD stuff recently.

Seems like such a marginal upgrade compared to when 1080p Blu Ray dropped ~10 years ago, the impact lasted for years afterwards.
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post #12906 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 07:41 AM
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Thanks for this list, great stuff!
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post #12907 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
saw jack reacher in DV on vudu. looked alright.

can't help but just not really be blown away most of the 4k UHD stuff recently.

Seems like such a marginal upgrade compared to when 1080p Blu Ray dropped ~10 years ago, the impact lasted for years afterwards.
I agree that the improvement of UHD HDR over 1080p HD, while easily noticeable, is significantly less dramatic than was the improvement over 480p DVDs, which the original Blu-ray disks provided. As for UHD without HDR, I have found its improvement over 1080p HD upconverted to 4k to be marginal to the point of being sometimes unnoticeable.
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post #12908 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 08:49 AM
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Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I cannot accept that from eight feet I would see more detail in a UHD image on a 65 inch TV, OLED or not, than I see on my Sony 940D from the same distance. Obviously, though, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.



In the interest of full disclosure, I carefully considered a 65 inch LG OLED but my research convinced me that for the same money, the highly regarded 75 inch Sony LCD FALD was a better bet. The silver lining here is that we are both happy with our UHD HDR TVs. Enjoy yours in good health.


I agree with you and think the only difference would be contrast ratio. Of course OLED black levels are perfect so that should be obvious. As far as resolution detail though, I don't think it's something most people would ever be able to pick out. If you put two identicaltvs there and played the same content except one was 1080p and the other UHD, both sdr, and asked someone randomly out of a crowd to determine which one was higher resolution at 8feet away from a 65" panel I don't think they would be able to tell you reliably. Sure they have a 50/50 chance to guess correctly though. In video games I can usually pick out the higher resolution because of aliasing but for movies and tv shows in sdr, unless there is some really bad compression I would have to study a still image a bit before I could tell and I can read the 20/10 line when I get my eyes checked so I am probably above average in being able to see small details. I think this is mostly because 4k tvs are so good at upscaling 1080p content now.
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post #12909 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I agree that the improvement of UHD HDR over 1080p HD, while easily noticeable, is significantly less dramatic than was the improvement over 480p DVDs, which the original Blu-ray disks provided. As for UHD without HDR, I have found its improvement over 1080p HD upconverted to 4k to be marginal to the point of being sometimes unnoticeable.
I agree, the improvement between DVD and blu-ray was greater (6 times as much resolution) than the improvement from blu-ray to UHD (4 times as much resolution) but it's still there. The more resolution the harder for the human brain to comprehend or notice it. I'm sure it will be even harder to notice the difference when 8k comes around in the next few years.
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post #12910 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I agree, the improvement between DVD and blu-ray was greater (6 times as much resolution) than the improvement from blu-ray to UHD (4 times as much resolution) but it's still there. The more resolution the harder for the human brain to comprehend or notice it. I'm sure it will be even harder to notice the difference when 8k comes around in the next few years.
Yes, its 4 times the resolution but as CM mentioned above, the upscalers on these TVs (my KS9800) are so good that maybe not in actual numbers but in perception they narrow that 4x gap to almost nil especially if you are further than 8FT. HDR is the real difference maker here with such a big bump in brightness and colors.
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post #12911 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
saw jack reacher in DV on vudu. looked alright.

can't help but just not really be blown away most of the 4k UHD stuff recently.

Seems like such a marginal upgrade compared to when 1080p Blu Ray dropped ~10 years ago, the impact lasted for years afterwards.


Jack Reacher is a 35mm 2k upscale. Movies like that are almost always average at best. 35mm 2k upscale are basically a waste. The best 1 I've seen is Magnificent 7 but it still doesn't compare to the best upscales on Alexa XT cameras.
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post #12912 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I cannot accept that from eight feet I would see more detail in a UHD image on a 65 inch TV, OLED or not, than I see on my Sony 940D from the same distance. Obviously, though, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.



http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-re...1312153517.htm


I sit 13 ft from my 65, yet I can tell the sharpness difference between a reference movie like Sully and an upscale such as Pacific Rim. True 4k has an extra layer of dimension to the picture along with cleaner refinement. It's easy to spot when you know what to look for. Native 4k also has more fluid motion too.
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post #12913 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
saw jack reacher in DV on vudu. looked alright.

can't help but just not really be blown away most of the 4k UHD stuff recently.

Seems like such a marginal upgrade compared to when 1080p Blu Ray dropped ~10 years ago, the impact lasted for years afterwards.
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post #12914 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 11:11 AM
 
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yeah
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post #12915 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Jack Reacher is a 35mm 2k upscale. Movies like that are almost always average at best. 35mm 2k upscale are basically a waste. The best 1 I've seen is Magnificent 7 but it still doesn't compare to the best upscales on Alexa XT cameras.
Didn't someone a while back say that Tom Cruise does not like a crisp,clear HDR PQ, but instead softens it down like they use to do for Doris Day?

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yeah
Reason I ask, we have had 2 beta firmware releases and 3.0.12.2 brought a DV EOTF(PQ) where luminance in the mid-tones were to high, clipping highlights and overall image brightness.

It was discovered that reducing the backlight 5-10 notches below 50 fixed it. But the only to way to see the fix in content required DV metadata to be reset, by stopping the movie then starting it again so that the DV metadata triggers again with the new backlight setting, flattening the curve making it pretty close to a accurate EOTF.

I don't know if you have gotten a professional calibration done or you did it yourself. If neither, then you, like me previously weren't truly seeing DV, but a flat image without much use of peak nits, or even good tone mapping.

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post #12917 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't someone a while back say that Tom Cruise does not like a crisp,clear HDR PQ, but instead softens it down like they use to do for Doris Day?
It's a theory. But he was in oblivion that was shot with all 4k+ and the BD was super sharp and looked great.

I have read though that Tom prefers his movies to be shot on film, which was fine for 1080p BD, but 35mm lacks when it comes to 4k and having HDR applied if the workflow is all 2k.

65mm blows away 35mm, see imax scenes of Star Trek 2 compared to the 35mm widescreen shots, no comparison.

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Native 4k also has more fluid motion too.


Seeing as it has the same framerate this is an illusion.
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post #12919 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Seeing as it has the same framerate this is an illusion.
I use a little bit of SOE to smooth the picture, and I'm telling you with native 4k, there's much less artifacts or motion hiccups with samsung tvs (which notoriously have motion problems). The cleaner the picture, the smoother it is. I've also found that movie shot on 35mm cause my tv to go out of whack. Jason Bourne was an absolute mess cause my tv couldn't handle it, but other action films are okay. It's really really sensitive.
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I use a little bit of SOE to smooth the picture, and I'm telling you with native 4k, there's much less artifacts or motion hiccups with samsung tvs (which notoriously have motion problems). The cleaner the picture, the smoother it is. I've also found that movie shot on 35mm cause my tv to go out of whack. Jason Bourne was an absolute mess cause my tv couldn't handle it, but other action films are okay. It's really really sensitive.
That's interesting. My daughter gave me the UHD HDR Jason Bourne disk for Christmas. It certainly doesn't have the best UHD HDR image quality I have seen but it was satisfactory and didn't cause problems for either my Oppo UDP-203 player or my Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV. There's a good chance that I am less able than you to see artifacts or motion hiccups but for whatever it may be worth, I didn't see any. I have not changed the default motion settings on my TV.

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post #12921 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 02:39 PM
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65mm blows away 35mm
Speaking of which, when will we ever get a UHD Blu-ray of the "Hateful Eight" Roadshow print? I saw that at the Grand Lake Theater in Oakland on 65mm, so gorgeous! A waste on 1080p SDR Blu-ray.
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It still hasn't been fixed for me. they said their IT department is work I working on it. I've been corresponding by email. I emailed them again yesterday and today another UHD version showed up in my purchase list. But nothing in my UV library. Only when they added an SD/HD copy did it show up in my UV library. They added it to least half a dozen times now and still nothing. No Idea what the issue is. I had no problems redeeming Underworld.

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I finally got this corrected but had to contact UV as instructed by Sony today. I now have 4 copies of Resident Evil: Afterlife on my Sony account. 3 of them are UHD and one is HD. I have 3 copies at the UV site (2 at HD and one at UHD). I originally redeemed the HD version at Vudu so that why it's 3 (one from Vudu and 2 from Sony).

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I use a little bit of SOE to smooth the picture, and I'm telling you with native 4k, there's much less artifacts or motion hiccups with samsung tvs (which notoriously have motion problems). The cleaner the picture, the smoother it is. I've also found that movie shot on 35mm cause my tv to go out of whack. Jason Bourne was an absolute mess cause my tv couldn't handle it, but other action films are okay. It's really really sensitive.
On my HU9000 + SEK-3500U, depite all the FW updates, still finding I have to go into the Menu, and turn AMP from Off to Clear, then back to Off. else wise, the judder is sometimes terrible. Once this is done, movement issues now become non existent. (Even on some of my 4K Movies!)

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post #12924 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 06:05 PM
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That's interesting. My daughter gave me the UHD HDR Jason Bourne disk for Christmas. It certainly doesn't have the best UHD HDR image quality I have seen but it was satisfactory and didn't cause problems for either my Oppo UDP-203 player or my Sony 75XBR X940D UHD HDR TV. There's a good chance that I am less able than you to see artifacts or motion hiccups but for whatever it may be worth, I didn't see any. I have not changed the default motion settings on my TV.
I watched it on my Philips BDP7501 and Samsung JS9000 and didn't have any issues. Though various settings could play into it as well. I don't use any dynamic contrast or sharpness enhancements/filters for example.

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On my HU9000 + SEK-3500U, depite all the FW updates, still finding I have to go into the Menu, and turn AMP from Off to Clear, then back to Off. else wise, the judder is sometimes terrible. Once this is done, movement issues now become non existent. (Even on some of my 4K Movies!)
This seems like some type of bug. I personally use clear for everything except game mode (which disables the option). I do so because my set has judder with 24hz titles played at 60hz (Netflix/Amazon etc). I have to set my Shield to 60hz to get 10bit HDR playback or else it forces 12bit and gives extreme banding. Setting it to clear just about eliminates the judder without any SOE and/or artifacts.
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post #12926 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 06:59 PM
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Have to say I'm really looking forward to Fantastic Beasts coming out in March. Looks like it has a 4K DI and some of that stuff should really "wow"


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post #12927 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Slightly off topic but not completely...because everyone has been curious how Dolby Vision will pass through devices if at all..

Denon and Marantz has announced that some of their receivers are being updated for Dolby Vision and HLG. unfortunately, it is only their current models.


The D + M Group will publish selected for AV receivers and preamplifiers their brands Denon and Marantz, a firmware update that allows the devices, metadata according to the HDR specifications "Dolby Vision" and "HLG" (Hybrid Log Gamma ). However, this update is only available for the current Denon models AVR-X1300W, AVR-X2300W, AVR-X3300W, AVR-X4300H and AVR-X6300H as well as the current Marantz models NR1607, SR5011, SR6011, SR7011 and AV7703. In addition, D + M intends to make it available only at the end of 2017 or early 2018; Extensive tests are planned.




https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...e-3614979.html
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post #12928 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-re...1312153517.htm


I sit 13 ft from my 65, yet I can tell the sharpness difference between a reference movie like Sully and an upscale such as Pacific Rim. True 4k has an extra layer of dimension to the picture along with cleaner refinement. It's easy to spot when you know what to look for. Native 4k also has more fluid motion too.
With 20/20 vision, a 13ft on a 65" TV you should be able to see about 735p worth of detail... If you're honestly seeing better than 1080p worth of detail you'd need 30/20 vision or better.

Now, one thing you can see at further distances is obviously the HDR, but also the better chroma subsampling, as a UHD Blu-ray has 1080p worth of chroma, while regular Blu-rays only have 540p worth of chroma. This difference should be easily noticeable at your viewing distance like you said if you know what you're looking for. However, the reason chroma is sampled lower than luma is because our eyes are much more sensitive to luma, so you're really missing out by not sitting in the 5-8 ft range from your TV.

The study you linked isn't particularly useful because 4KTVs tend to have other qualities that make their pictures better. They would need to be built and calibrated to exactly the same spec for a study like that to be accurate.
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post #12929 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
This seems like some type of bug. I personally use clear for everything except game mode (which disables the option). I do so because my set has judder with 24hz titles played at 60hz (Netflix/Amazon etc). I have to set my Shield to 60hz to get 10bit HDR playback or else it forces 12bit and gives extreme banding. Setting it to clear just about eliminates the judder without any SOE and/or artifacts.
On my Samsung I still do the AMP 'off - clear - off' on broadcast material why oh why they have never acknowledged that problem accross multiple sets infuriates me... but on 'Films' i use BFI (LED clear motion on) with both sliders set at 0.
Occasionally i get a tiny glitch but i have always put this down to 23.97<24 catch up.
On devices such as the Oppo that can output true 23.97 i very rarely see any problems.
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post #12930 of 30472 Old 02-01-2017, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
With 20/20 vision, a 13ft on a 65" TV you should be able to see about 735p worth of detail... If you're honestly seeing better than 1080p worth of detail you'd need 30/20 vision or better.

Now, one thing you can see at further distances is obviously the HDR, but also the better chroma subsampling, as a UHD Blu-ray has 1080p worth of chroma, while regular Blu-rays only have 540p worth of chroma. This difference should be easily noticeable at your viewing distance like you said if you know what you're looking for. However, the reason chroma is sampled lower than luma is because our eyes are much more sensitive to luma, so you're really missing out by not sitting in the 5-8 ft range from your TV.

The study you linked isn't particularly useful because 4KTVs tend to have other qualities that make their pictures better. They would need to be built and calibrated to exactly the same spec for a study like that to be accurate.
I always see people make statements like this or based on the confusing pixels per degree of arc, so I wanted to test it myself using an easy real world test.

I taped a hair from my head to a piece of paper and stuck the paper onto my TV, then I sat on my couch (~3 meters away).

I could definitely see the hair at that distance, the average diameter of human hair is 80um, thus I can at least see things with 80um width.

Calculating using wolframalpha the pixels on an 8K 65" TV are 215um thus ~3x the diameter of a human hair, its only until you get to 16K 65" TV where the pixels are aprox the same as the diameter of a hair.

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=65%22+%2F+(3840*2)

I am just demonstrating that for a 4k 65" TV at 3 meters, the human eye can definitely still discern even a single pixel.

Caveats:
  • I understand the human vision is complex, thus maybe a black hair on a white piece of paper is easier to discern. But there are scenarios where there are some black pixels surrounded with lots of white like this in movies (e.g. black text on white paper), or if the TV is used as a computer monitor.
  • I also understand it may not seem crisper subjectively when considering an entire image.
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