Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 647 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 29139Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #19381 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Cheezmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,110
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 299
Matches my experience. I have 4 Sony UHD movies in my Amazon account from a year ago and they are not synced to MA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
Sony UHD titles are NOT ready for prime time on Movies Anywhere. I decided to "sacrifice" the code for my Close Encounters UHD because I know it's available in UHD on Amazon and I wanted to see if I got that copy if I redeemed directly on MA. Unfortunately, it did not. To make matters worse, it redeemed in SD with Vudu which pushed SD digital rights to UV.

I picked this title because I knew it was in UHD on Amazon and I know Sony's customer service is good to deal with so I can probably get the code corrected.

So, I would say continue redeeming UHD titles through the normal means for now until they don't work anymore and hopefully they'll get these redemptions sorted out.
CCsoftball7 likes this.

Steve Martin
former ISF Calibrator
If you can see my pixels, you are sitting too close.
Sony XBR75X940D, Sony XBR55X930D, Samsung UBD-K8500, Oppo BDP-103, Oppo BDP-93,
Cheezmo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19382 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lujan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,587
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4280 Post(s)
Liked: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezmo View Post
Matches my experience. I have 4 Sony UHD movies in my Amazon account from a year ago and they are not synced to MA.
Me too, I have a few Amazon UHD Sony purchases that didn't port over to Vudu in UHD but I'm still thinking it has to do with Vudu not supporting HDR-10 still.
CCsoftball7 likes this.

lujan
506 Ultra HD
721 HD
4 SD
lujan is online now  
post #19383 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Cheezmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,110
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Me too, I have a few Amazon UHD Sony purchases that didn't port over to Vudu in UHD but I'm still thinking it has to do with Vudu not supporting HDR-10 still.
Mine haven't ported at all. Are you saying you got HD copies in MA/VUDU?

Steve Martin
former ISF Calibrator
If you can see my pixels, you are sitting too close.
Sony XBR75X940D, Sony XBR55X930D, Samsung UBD-K8500, Oppo BDP-103, Oppo BDP-93,
Cheezmo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19384 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lujan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,587
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4280 Post(s)
Liked: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezmo View Post
Mine haven't ported at all. Are you saying you got HD copies in MA/VUDU?
I don't know, it's all very confusing? I just checked and my copy of After Earth UHD purchased on Amazon is showing up as 4k HDR on Google Play but only HDX on Vudu. I'm thinking for the same reason that they don't support HDR-10.

lujan
506 Ultra HD
721 HD
4 SD
lujan is online now  
post #19385 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Cheezmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,110
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I don't know, it's all very confusing? I just checked and my copy of After Earth UHD purchased on Amazon is showing up as 4k HDR on Google Play but only HDX on Vudu. I'm thinking for the same reason that they don't support HDR-10.
After Earth is one of my titles and it isn't even listed on MA or any of the other services. Amazon got all my MA titles, but didn't push anything to it I guess. Support time.

Steve Martin
former ISF Calibrator
If you can see my pixels, you are sitting too close.
Sony XBR75X940D, Sony XBR55X930D, Samsung UBD-K8500, Oppo BDP-103, Oppo BDP-93,
Cheezmo is offline  
post #19386 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 09:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,795
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2179 Post(s)
Liked: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
Watched the first episode of Mindhunters on Netflix in DV. It is very Fincher. Reminiscent of Zodiac in both subject matter and style, with a little Seven thrown in. The HDR is pretty naturalistic. It's not quite as desaturated as a lot of his other stuff. But it's not going to wow you.
It is also available in HDR10. The only reason I decided to watch is because Anna Torv is in it.
mikestr and mrtickleuk like this.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Vertex/Linker/Integral
claw is offline  
post #19387 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 09:22 AM
Member
 
MarshallFaulk28's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 189
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by LG4k View Post
John Wick 2 is now just hd on apple tv 4k...since I bought it, Jason Bourne lost 4k, Star Trek Beyond lost HDR for a day and For a while Transformers 5 would show only in hd...really hard to recommend this device now, you just cant trust that what you own is going to be there when you want it...on top of that apple help is clueless, telling me that Transformers 5 wasn't even available in 4k at all, thats why it was showing hd...I can trust vudu at least, not once has a title been downgraded for me...hard to imagine growing pains from such a huge tech company
It appears John Wick 2 has made it's return to 4K DV. I'm going to have to watch this before it disappears again.
galonzo likes this.
MarshallFaulk28 is offline  
post #19388 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 12:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
cydeweyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallFaulk28 View Post
It appears John Wick 2 has made it's return to 4K DV. I'm going to have to watch this before it disappears again.
Hopefully it never disappears again. I’m guessing all of these fluctuations are due to the new 4K movies on iTunes and the new movies anywhere link and a flood of people redeeming buying watching.
cydeweyz is online now  
post #19389 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 01:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Balthazar2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,270
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 711 Post(s)
Liked: 805
I finally reached my breaking point with the new AppleTV 4K and returned it. Between the forced HDR on SDR content and the fact that week-to-week movies keep shifting 4K status I have had it. After MovieAnywhere I have over a 1000 movies on iTunes and that still wasn't enough to keep me.

So I took my money and bought a pile of UHD BDs instead. Back to the land of high bitrate 4K and Atmos/DTS:X sound! Now that is money well spent.

Sony 77A9G / Marantz SR-7012 / Martin Logan Motion 60XT, 50XT, Motion 4, Motion FX / 2 x Rythmik FV15HP / AppleTV 4K / ShieldTV
Balthazar2k4 is offline  
post #19390 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
bigck417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 169
Anyone else getting elevated blacks on Mindhunter in DV? Letterbox bars are really grey throughout. Getting tired of this problem on DV streams. Some movies/shows have it, others look great. Obviously it can be done right, so what’s the deal? (Cue comments on HDR10 being superior)
bigck417 is offline  
post #19391 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
ray0414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 16,568
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12440 Post(s)
Liked: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassEtcher View Post
When will this list be updated again? Or is there another list that is more up to date?
Hopefully next week when my guests from Florida head back.

65KS9800*Oppo 203*Denon X4200*Galaxy S8+

75Q9FN*55C8OLED*Galaxy S10+ *Ub820 fed into Oppo 203* XB1X* 4k Denon X4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
ray0414 is offline  
post #19392 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
ray0414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 16,568
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12440 Post(s)
Liked: 11621
Interstellar, Nolans Batman trilogy and all 4 older transformers are all up for pre-order at bestbuy.Com individually.

65KS9800*Oppo 203*Denon X4200*Galaxy S8+

75Q9FN*55C8OLED*Galaxy S10+ *Ub820 fed into Oppo 203* XB1X* 4k Denon X4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
ray0414 is offline  
post #19393 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 03:25 PM
Member
 
playadel2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Anyone else getting elevated blacks on Mindhunter in DV? Letterbox bars are really grey throughout. Getting tired of this problem on DV streams. Some movies/shows have it, others look great. Obviously it can be done right, so what’s the deal? (Cue comments on HDR10 being superior)
Looks fine on my Vizio. Typical Fincher desaturation but blacks look good

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
playadel2001 is offline  
post #19394 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 03:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mrtickleuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Birmingham, UK - you know, the original one!
Posts: 6,413
Mentioned: 162 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4369 Post(s)
Liked: 6623
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Anyone else getting elevated blacks on Mindhunter in DV? Letterbox bars are really grey throughout. Getting tired of this problem on DV streams. Some movies/shows have it, others look great. Obviously it can be done right, so what’s the deal?
The deal is: we are early adopters.

Quote:
(Cue comments on HDR10 being superior)
I'd hope we couldn't get such comments, that would be cheap and pointless. Just as it's cheap and pointless when it's in the other direction. It's still early days for all forms of HDR; and there are clearly still teething problems being ironed out.

_______________
Denon AVR-X4200W, Arcam Alpha 8P; 5.1.4 setup: Mission 702e, M7C1i, 77DS, 731. Rel T5 Sub. Monitor Audio CT165 4 Tops | LG OLED55C8PLA TV | Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-Ray

HDMI 2.0 4K modes | Dolby & DTS core+outer audio tracks on (UHD) Blu-Rays | Hello to Jason Isaacs
mrtickleuk is offline  
post #19395 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 03:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,622
Mentioned: 200 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked: 1937
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Anyone else getting elevated blacks on Mindhunter in DV? Letterbox bars are really grey throughout. Getting tired of this problem on DV streams. Some movies/shows have it, others look great. Obviously it can be done right, so what’s the deal? (Cue comments on HDR10 being superior)


What TV? TV app? Or external device?

Tyler Pruitt - Technical Evangelist - for CalMAN

10 Bit Gradient Test Patterns (HEVC) - Free Download
WiFi-Spy is offline  
post #19396 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 03:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
korsjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Anyone else getting elevated blacks on Mindhunter in DV? Letterbox bars are really grey throughout. Getting tired of this problem on DV streams. Some movies/shows have it, others look great. Obviously it can be done right, so what’s the deal? (Cue comments on HDR10 being superior)
Literally just finished episode one and watching the intro to episode two. looks fine to me.

Family Room
LG OLED65C6P, Denon AVRX2400H, Oppo 203, XBOX One S

Bedroom
TCL 55R615, Samsung UBD-K8500
korsjs is offline  
post #19397 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 04:03 PM
Senior Member
 
mikestr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 281
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
It is also available in HDR10. The only reason I decided to watch is because Anna Torv is in it.


Same here. Love Anna Torv and I miss Fringe!!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
aaronwt, mrtickleuk and Mr Berry like this.

Samsung 55JS9000
Vizio P65-C1
mikestr is offline  
post #19398 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 04:15 PM
Senior Member
 
bigck417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
What TV? TV app? Or external device?


Lg C7. Apple TV 4K set to DV 60hz. Switched to HDR and looks great. Was actually getting a grey screen during credits between each credit. Very strange. Going to test on the built in app later.
bigck417 is offline  
post #19399 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
bigck417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 269
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 169
Here are some pics of the screen with credits and in between credits. Tested on the built in app as well as ATV4k and both show it in DV. HDR10 was fine. Also tested on multiple episodes and they showed the same problem.
bigck417 is offline  
post #19400 of 26587 Old 10-14-2017, 09:50 PM
Member
 
mark_1581's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Here are some pics of the screen with credits and in between credits. Tested on the built in app as well as ATV4k and both show it in DV. HDR10 was fine. Also tested on multiple episodes and they showed the same problem.
I watched the first two episodes on the built in app on my C7 and saw the exact same thing. I tested the same two episodes on the built in app on my E6 and only saw the grey screen once at the end of the episode right before the credits. The rest of the credits looked fine.

Last edited by mark_1581; 10-15-2017 at 06:32 AM.
mark_1581 is offline  
post #19401 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 06:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Mr Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

Its disappointing that Disney isn’t in 4K on iTunes and might never be because of their streaming service that’s still 2 years away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr Berry is offline  
post #19402 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 07:31 AM
 
alexanderg823's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,449
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3128 Post(s)
Liked: 2544
1) I have gray bars sometimes in mind Hunter as well on Vizio p75

2) sucker punch is now available on Vudu uhd if anyone cares
alexanderg823 is offline  
post #19403 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 08:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b0rnarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,533
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1939 Post(s)
Liked: 1145
Arrow New Redeeming Codes Thread Here!

After getting very annoyed lols... I just created a separate thread for discussing all your redeeming codes needs... it can be accessed below:
REDEEMING Thread

Let's unclutter this thread and get back on the Quality of the Content.
@ray0414 can you please add the thread's link in the first post as well...!

Thanks!

Best,
Main Living Room: Samsung 65 KS9800 + Denon X4500H 11.1 + Sony UBP-X800 + PS4
Other Living Room: Panasonic Plasma 55 + Onkyo Home Theater System 5.1 + PS3
Discs For SALE : 4Ks And 2Ks!
b0rnarian is offline  
post #19404 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 02:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Mr Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

I was gonna watch Baby Driver tonight and guess what, it’s no longer in 4K on iTunes. What’s happening here? So annoyed with this ****.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr Berry is offline  
post #19405 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 03:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mutelight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,150
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2149 Post(s)
Liked: 2441
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigck417 View Post
Here are some pics of the screen with credits and in between credits. Tested on the built in app as well as ATV4k and both show it in DV. HDR10 was fine. Also tested on multiple episodes and they showed the same problem. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2c2b629492.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...02b1962f21.jpg
I have really been wanting to watch this show and would test the quality as well but Netflix has been down all weekend for me across all my devices.
mutelight is offline  
post #19406 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 10:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Mr Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Did you even read the post directly above yours? How could you miss it?!


Or maybe you should just learn to read, period? How does a redeeming thread have any relevance to what I posted? This thread is about HDR titles and I just updated the list by removing Baby Driver from the 4K HDR list. When and if it’s back, I will update it again....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr Berry is offline  
post #19407 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
ray0414's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: michigan
Posts: 16,568
Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12440 Post(s)
Liked: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Berry View Post
Or maybe you should just learn to read, period? How does a redeeming thread have any relevance to what I posted? This thread is about HDR titles and I just updated the list by removing Baby Driver from the 4K HDR list. When and if it’s back, I will update it again....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Technically true. Why does iTunes keep removing and adding 4k HDR titles? Once I get back to thread updating it will be very annoying to keep removing and adding titles :P
ray0414 is offline  
post #19408 of 26587 Old 10-15-2017, 10:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Mr Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Technically true. Why does iTunes keep removing and adding 4k HDR titles? Once I get back to thread updating it will be very annoying to keep removing and adding titles :P


I guess they’re still working on licensing issues. It’s annoying as hell. I’m going to watch all of my purchases in case they disappear from the list.

I can definitely understand why @Balthazar2k4 sold his ATV 4K because of this now.

Lol, it will definitely be annoying for you. But your list has to maintain it’s integrity and as per the thread title, “will be updated often”, so get on that, pronto!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Balthazar2k4 likes this.

Last edited by Mr Berry; 10-15-2017 at 11:07 PM.
Mr Berry is offline  
post #19409 of 26587 Old 10-16-2017, 01:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lujan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,587
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4280 Post(s)
Liked: 2414
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Technically true. Why does iTunes keep removing and adding 4k HDR titles? Once I get back to thread updating it will be very annoying to keep removing and adding titles :P
I know, it's going to be very tedious having to go to every iTunes title I have that is available in 4k to see whether or not I own it in 4k. The only way to do that is to start playing the movie and then press the down arrow or swipe down. Again, it could change from day to day so why bother?

lujan
506 Ultra HD
721 HD
4 SD
lujan is online now  
post #19410 of 26587 Old 10-16-2017, 01:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Mr Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I know, it's going to be very tedious having to go to every iTunes title I have that is available in 4k to see whether or not I own it in 4k. The only way to do that is to start playing the movie and then press the down arrow or swipe down. Again, it could change from day to day so why bother?


Why is that the only way? Shouldn’t the movie’s description on the main page be enough?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mr Berry is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

Tags
dolby vision , hdr10 , JS8500 , KS9800 , ultra hd blu-ray

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off