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post #21511 of 26719 Old 03-10-2018, 10:07 PM
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I agree with the Thor Ragnarok assessment...not HDR impressive like Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2.
Guardians had deep colours and bright highlights. Thor could have but didn't!
It's a pity cause it had plenty of chances to be super bright and colourful!

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post #21512 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 08:20 AM
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post #21513 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 09:43 AM
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Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
I agree with the Thor Ragnarok assessment...not HDR impressive like Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2.
Guardians had deep colours and bright highlights. Thor could have but didn't!
It's a pity cause it had plenty of chances to be super bright and colourful!

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Then you didn’t watch it in sdr before because it’s obviously a huge upgrade.
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post #21514 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
I wasn't blown away by Thor 3's HDR either. Was wondering if it was just me.


You aren’t supposed to be “blown away” by hdr. Only if that’s the intention like tech demos. You are supposed to see increased depth, more vivid colors, more detail in the shadows, better contrast etc and over the SDR 1080p release all of those elements are a very big upgrade.
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post #21515 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
You aren’t supposed to be “blown away” by hdr. Only if that’s the intention like tech demos. You are supposed to see increased depth, more vivid colors, more detail in the shadows, better contrast etc. over the SDR 1080p release all of those elements are a very big upgrade on the UHD release.
Ok, I was disappointed in Thor 3's HDR. Better?
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post #21516 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Ok, I was disappointed in Thor 3's HDR. Better?


There just seems to this misconception that everything in HDR will look like a giant tech demo that burns your eyeballs out. That’s not the case and every release I have seen has been better than any 1080p release that came before it which is the point.

I think what they did with Thor Ragnarok works for the movie and it looks great. Are there more colorful movies? Yes. Are there movies with better use of contrast in the shadows? Yes. Are there brighter movies? Yes. Does Thor look bad because of this? No
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post #21517 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Then you didn’t watch it in sdr before because it’s obviously a huge upgrade.
Why would I want to watch the SDR to appreciate the UHD HDR version?
I can just benchmark it based on previous releases by the studio. In this case, Guardians 2!
There are many good HDR discs out there that we already know what to look for or expect!
Either way I still liked the movie!

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post #21518 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 10:46 AM
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Yep, still enjoyed the movie, even if the HDR was lacking.


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post #21519 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Ok, I was disappointed in Thor 3's HDR. Better?


There just seems to this misconception that everything in HDR will look like a giant tech demo that burns your eyeballs out. That?s not the case and every release I have seen has been better than any 1080p release that came before it which is the point.

I think what they did with Thor Ragnarok works for the movie and it looks great. Are there more colorful movies? Yes. Are there movies with better use of contrast in the shadows? Yes. Are there brighter movies? Yes. Does Thor look bad because of this? No
You know what, you say not everthing should be a tech demo but guess what this website does whenever theres a high profile movie that comes out in Dolby Cinema... the article always revolves around how it is a great flashy tech demo, its the best thing since slice bread and so on and so forth. And when you actually go watch it or see it at home, it just doesn't live up to the hype. So thats one factor that creates the misconception that everything is just demo worthy. Theres very few movies that have disappointed me since 4K but they all could be better or worse... i wish there was a standard for grading so we wouldn't have these discussions. Also, I dont understand why anyone has to watch a dvd to appreciate what a bluray can do (see what i did there). PS, I thought Thor was decent and nothing to write home about. But I have watched Murder On the Orient Express twice and it hasnt ceased to amaze me so far.

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post #21520 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
You aren’t supposed to be “blown away” by hdr. Only if that’s the intention like tech demos. You are supposed to see increased depth, more vivid colors, more detail in the shadows, better contrast etc and over the SDR 1080p release all of those elements are a very big upgrade.
I thought the video (not just HDR) was better on Thor 3 than on Spider-Man Homecoming although others have posted the opposite.

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post #21521 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
Why would I want to watch the SDR to appreciate the UHD HDR version?
I can just benchmark it based on previous releases by the studio. In this case, Guardians 2!
There are many good HDR discs out there that we already know what to look for or expect!
Either way I still liked the movie!

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Since there is no standard between releases the best way to determine how much of an improvement the UHD HDR version is, is by comparing the same releases SDR version. Comparing two releases only compares the different grading used for each release (both which may be trying to achieve different things). How do you know what to expect when everything is done differently? What you want to see and what is actually shown may be two different things.
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post #21522 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I thought the video (not just HDR) was better on Thor 3 than on Spider-Man Homecoming although others have posted the opposite.
I watched Spider-Man Homecoming two different ways. Once in HDR10 and once in Dolby Vision. Both off the disc. One viewing was on my Samsung JS9000 and the other on my B7 OLED. Both times I can say the picture was largely inferior to what I saw from the new Thor release this morning when I watched it all the way through. Not feeling one movie is as good as another is fine but I do have a problem when someone insinuates through their post that if movie A doesn't look like movie B did then it's bad. Bad would be something like how Oblivion was handled with the soft picture or Ender's Game with the raised blacks in the encode.

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You know what, you say not everthing should be a tech demo but guess what this website does whenever theres a high profile movie that comes out in Dolby Cinema... the article always revolves around how it is a great flashy tech demo, its the best thing since slice bread and so on and so forth. And when you actually go watch it or see it at home, it just doesn't live up to the hype. So thats one factor that creates the misconception that everything is just demo worthy. Theres very few movies that have disappointed me since 4K but they all could be better or worse... i wish there was a standard for grading so we wouldn't have these discussions. Also, I dont understand why anyone has to watch a dvd to appreciate what a bluray can do (see what i did there). PS, I thought Thor was decent and nothing to write home about. But I have watched Murder On the Orient Express twice and it hasnt ceased to amaze me so far.
I won't deny that social media and other outlets have created a hype machine to give false expectations to consumers. Dolby is very guilty of this on their Facebook page in my experience. It's like every movie that comes along to Dolby Cinema is the best thing ever. Then along comes another new release and guess what, it's the new best lol.
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post #21523 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:31 AM
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Since there is no standard between releases the best way to determine how much of an improvement the UHD HDR version is, is by comparing the same releases SDR version. Comparing two releases only compares the different grading used for each release (both which may be trying to achieve different things). How do you know what to expect when everything is done differently? What you want to see and what is actually shown may be two different things.
Exactly, it's all up to how the colorist and director and anyone else involved in the grading process want things to look. The only real way to see the improvement from an HDR picture is to watch the same thing in SDR. You wouldn't expect The Revenant's chilling winter scenes to be as bright and vibrant as The Shallows' sunny beach scenes. You would expect the HDR grading to bring out more from the original camera files or film stock over the SDR presentation though.

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Why would I want to watch the SDR to appreciate the UHD HDR version?
I can just benchmark it based on previous releases by the studio. In this case, Guardians 2!
There are many good HDR discs out there that we already know what to look for or expect!
Either way I still liked the movie!

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Different directors and probably a different colorist working on the grading. Different intents cannot be compared directly. It's always going to be this way.
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post #21524 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Since there is no standard between releases the best way to determine how much of an improvement the UHD HDR version is, is by comparing the same releases SDR version. Comparing two releases only compares the different grading used for each release (both which may be trying to achieve different things). How do you know what to expect when everything is done differently? What you want to see and what is actually shown may be two different things.
If there isn't a standard, then maybe we should stop labelling movies reference grade and demo worthy!
Crap is crap, doesn't matter what the intent of the colorist or the director is/was!
Thor Ragnarok was mediocre and so was Spiderman Homecoming to me!
Both had more potential especially Thor.

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post #21525 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
If there isn't a standard, then maybe we should stop labelling movies reference grade and demo worthy!
Crap is crap, doesn't matter what the intent of the colorist or the director is/was!
Thor Ragnarok was mediocre and so was Spiderman Homecoming to me!
Both had more potential especially Thor.

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I never do label movies. I label them by how I think they look. Personal opinion is fine, but really many reviews are based upon the improvement over the SDR release (which is why we said what we did). Intent means close to everything. You may not like what they intend, but that’s a totally different subject. Thor IMO was colorful enough and had some good highlights. Was is groundbreaking? No, not close, but again I don’t buy into the hype and tend to watch movies before reading reviews to the best of my ability.
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post #21526 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
You aren’t supposed to be “blown away” by hdr. Only if that’s the intention like tech demos. You are supposed to see increased depth, more vivid colors, more detail in the shadows, better contrast etc and over the SDR 1080p release all of those elements are a very big upgrade.
I don't think anybody is saying they were expecting a tech demo when they said they weren't blown away. What we (or at least, I) mean by that is there were practically no scenes that looked like they used HDR in a way to do anything that SDR is incapable of doing. I saw this in 3D in the theater, which is also SDR, and there was almost nothing about the HDR release that looked particularly different in terms of highlights, color, or detail compared to the SDR version. Also, anybody who has seen good HDR knows you don't actually need to compare it to the SDR version to instantly know its making good (and not exaggerated) use of the format.

There were three moments I can recall where I thought HDR was doing something SDR probably didn't do. First, there were red glowing weapons some of the Sakaar people were using. The red here looked more vibrant and bright than SDR would be able to pull off effectively. Second, on the escape scene, the clouds looked like they had some slightly brighter highlight detail that was just above the limits of SDR. Finally,
Spoiler!
So yes, while there was limited use of the format, the movie had so much more potential, especially in its use of color, that went almost completely untapped.

When you compare it to Guardians 2, Spider-man Homecoming, and Pirates 5 (I haven't seen Cars 3 in HDR yet), this movie is far weaker than those in its use of HDR. In regards to Spider-man, it's best use of HDR was in its night scenes. Added shadow detail and brilliant highlights looked beautiful, especially in Dolby Vision.

In contrast, 3D was a much bigger upgrade than HDR with Ragnarok. Not as vital to the experience as it was for Guardians (I felt the HDR was an equal upgrade with Guardians, but certain scenes felt like they were missing something without 3D), but still a nice upgrade over SDR 2D, with plenty that stands out. I mentioned my disappointment with the HDR of Ragnarok because I was originally considering importing the 3D version but decided to preorder the 4K instead after seeing reviews that convinced me otherwise. Now I'm going to have to double dip to get the 3D for future viewings as that was a much more enjoyable experience imo.

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post #21527 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 12:03 PM
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I never do label movies. I label them by how I think they look. Personal opinion is fine, but really many reviews are based upon the improvement over the SDR release (which is why we said what we did). Intent means close to everything. You may not like what they intend, but that’s a totally different subject. Thor IMO was colorful enough and had some good highlights. Was is groundbreaking? No, not close, but again I don’t buy into the hype and tend to watch movies before reading reviews to the best of my ability.
I don't get why people get defensive when some of us don't like how some movies look!
You have your opinions and we have ours!

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post #21528 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 12:16 PM
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I don't get why people get defensive when some of us don't like how some movies look!
You have your opinions and we have ours!

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Who says you can’t have an opinion? All I see are people discussing the difference of just that. No need to always yell either
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post #21529 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 12:18 PM
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Who says you can’t have an opinion? All I see are people discussing the difference of just that. No need to always yell either
I suppose you're reading and comprehension level is a bit off so maybe you just just talk to yourself in circles!

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post #21530 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 12:51 PM
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I suppose you're reading and comprehension level is a bit off so maybe you just just talk to yourself in circles!

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It seems yours is as I never said you couldn’t, I just counteracted what you said (which is what people do in debates), but alas I’ll let you have the last word. I’m sure you’ll have fun yelling at the world.
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
I watched Spider-Man Homecoming two different ways. Once in HDR10 and once in Dolby Vision. Both off the disc. One viewing was on my Samsung JS9000 and the other on my B7 OLED. Both times I can say the picture was largely inferior to what I saw from the new Thor release this morning when I watched it all the way through.
What were your impressions of the HDR10 vs DV for this film?
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post #21532 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Elisha View Post
If there isn't a standard, then maybe we should stop labelling movies reference grade and demo worthy!
Crap is crap, doesn't matter what the intent of the colorist or the director is/was!
Thor Ragnarok was mediocre and so was Spiderman Homecoming to me!
Both had more potential especially Thor.

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If artist intention means nothing why are we trying to always see what is intended via calibrations and dynamic metadata?

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post #21533 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:29 PM
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What were your impressions of the HDR10 vs DV for this film?
I don't think dolby vision made it look better necessarily because the differences are very slight to me. Maybe if I could see them side by side but just flipping between them, can't really tell. It still didn't look as good as other titles I've seen on the format. Kind of average but that's probably on purpose.
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post #21534 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:33 PM
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I don't think anybody is saying they were expecting a tech demo when they said they weren't blown away. What we (or at least, I) mean by that is there were practically no scenes that looked like they used HDR in a way to do anything that SDR is incapable of doing. I saw this in 3D in the theater, which is also SDR, and there was almost nothing about the HDR release that looked particularly different in terms of highlights, color, or detail compared to the SDR version. Also, anybody who has seen good HDR knows you don't actually need to compare it to the SDR version to instantly know its making good (and not exaggerated) use of the format.

There were three moments I can recall where I thought HDR was doing something SDR probably didn't do. First, there were red glowing weapons some of the Sakaar people were using. The red here looked more vibrant and bright than SDR would be able to pull off effectively. Second, on the escape scene, the clouds looked like they had some slightly brighter highlight detail that was just above the limits of SDR. Finally,
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So yes, while there was limited use of the format, the movie had so much more potential, especially in its use of color, that went almost completely untapped.

When you compare it to Guardians 2, Spider-man Homecoming, and Pirates 5 (I haven't seen Cars 3 in HDR yet), this movie is far weaker than those in its use of HDR. In regards to Spider-man, it's best use of HDR was in its night scenes. Added shadow detail and brilliant highlights looked beautiful, especially in Dolby Vision.

In contrast, 3D was a much bigger upgrade than HDR with Ragnarok. Not as vital to the experience as it was for Guardians (I felt the HDR was an equal upgrade with Guardians, but certain scenes felt like they were missing something without 3D), but still a nice upgrade over SDR 2D, with plenty that stands out. I mentioned my disappointment with the HDR of Ragnarok because I was originally considering importing the 3D version but decided to preorder the 4K instead after seeing reviews that convinced me otherwise. Now I'm going to have to double dip to get the 3D for future viewings as that was a much more enjoyable experience imo.

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So you're really saying that the brilliance of Thor's lightning, the colors of the ship's engines, and the neon of The Grandmaster's digital image looks like SDR? That's nonsense.
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post #21535 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:37 PM
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So you're really saying that the brilliance of Thor's lightning, the colors of the ship's engines, and the neon of The Grandmaster's digital image looks like SDR? That's nonsense.
Thor's lightning was absolutely a disappointment. That could have looked amazing in HDR, but it didn't use any of the brighter HDR range, so it didn't have the brilliance and contrast it should have had. Massive wasted potential, and I saw nothing special about the ship's engines or grandmaster holograms.

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post #21536 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:41 PM
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Thor's lightning was absolutely a disappointment. That could have looked amazing in HDR, but it didn't use any of the brighter HDR range, so it didn't have the brilliance and contrast it should have had. Massive wasted potential, and I saw nothing special about the ship's engines or grandmaster holograms.
Then I don't know what you were watching sorry. Looked awesome on my B7 OLED.
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post #21537 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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Thor's lightning was absolutely a disappointment. That could have looked amazing in HDR, but it didn't use any of the brighter HDR range, so it didn't have the brilliance and contrast it should have had. Massive wasted potential, and I saw nothing special about the ship's engines or grandmaster holograms.


I’d have to disagree on the lightning as I noticed an uptick at least later on in the movie.
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post #21538 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 02:17 PM
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Then I don't know what you were watching sorry. Looked awesome on my B7 OLED.
Watching on my C6, both SDR and HDR properly calibrated. I just went through and watched the beginning of every chapter in both SDR and HDR, and honestly, even comparing the two back to back, it's just not much of a difference at all. Looking at the lightning again, there may be a very slight improvement (towards the end, the earlier ones did not see improvement), but it's barely scratching the surface of what HDR could have done for that.

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post #21539 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 02:20 PM
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Watching on my C6, both SDR and HDR properly calibrated. I just went through and watched the beginning of every chapter in both SDR and HDR, and honestly, even comparing the two back to back, it's just not much of a difference at all. Looking at the lightning again, there may be a very slight improvement (towards the end, the earlier ones did not see improvement), but it's barely scratching the surface of what HDR could have done for that.


I do agree about the beginning, that was different and it looked like they regarded towards the end to make it brighter. This of course could be on purpose as well depicting “accidental” vs “on purpose”.
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post #21540 of 26719 Old 03-11-2018, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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So you're really saying that the brilliance of Thor's lightning, the colors of the ship's engines, and the neon of The Grandmaster's digital image looks like SDR? That's nonsense.


The lightning looked pretty great on my 1500 nit lcd. Anyone looking to blown away by lighting are probably going to be somewhat disappointed on an OLED. It's just a disappointing reality unfortunately.

It's only my subjective opinion, but the hdr to me is only impressive on 1 TV in this following hdr shootout picture.

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