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helvetica bold 06-15-2019 12:19 PM

I attended the Value Electronics shootout. All the judges praised the Aquaman UHD transfer.



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morphinapg 06-15-2019 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helvetica bold (Post 58186198)
I attended the Value Electronics shootout. All the judges praised the Aquaman UHD transfer.



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I honestly wasn't as impressed as most people seem to be. While it's bright and colorful, it doesn't have a lot of dynamic range. It's like they took what was already in the SDR version and cranked it up to brighter levels, which imo, isn't really what HDR is about. HDR is about expanding it. So the overall brightness in most cases should not change too much, but it should allow greater contrast between the midtones and highlights, and I just didn't get much of that with this movie.

DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58186218)
I honestly wasn't as impressed as most people seem to be. While it's bright and colorful, it doesn't have a lot of dynamic range. It's like they took what was already in the SDR version and cranked it up to brighter levels, which imo, isn't really what HDR is about. HDR is about expanding it. So the overall brightness in most cases should not change too much, but it should allow greater contrast between the midtones and highlights, and I just didn't get much of that with this movie.

When I initially watched I thought it wasn't impressive visually. Then someone made a comment about his display clipping white below 4000 nits. I ran the white clipping pattern on a Sony UHD disc for HDR. Reduced the contrast control setting until each shade was clearly not blending.

Popped in Aquaman, to find that my display was completely clipping out clouds, color detail, and other small highlights. Its made all of my movies a lot more impressive visually, even Star Wars TLJ.

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morphinapg 06-15-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58186574)
When I initially watched I thought it wasn't impressive visually. Then someone made a comment about his display clipping white below 4000 nits. I ran the white clipping pattern on a Sony UHD disc for HDR. Reduced the contrast control setting until each shade was clearly not blending.

Popped in Aquaman, to find that my display was completely clipping out clouds, color detail, and other small highlights. Its made all of my movies a lot more impressive visually, even Star Wars TLJ.

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I can do that on my Sony but it does considerably darken the image.

The contrast setting on my LG doesn't work in the same way and simply darkens everything, but the LG by default tonemaps in a way that preserves details up to 4000 nits. Also, I was watching in Dolby Vision, so all of that is accounted for in DV better than any other setting could.

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DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58186590)
I can do that on my Sony but it does considerably darken the image.

The contrast setting on my LG doesn't work in the same way and simply darkens everything, but the LG by default tonemaps in a way that preserves details up to 4000 nits. Also, I was watching in Dolby Vision, so all of that is accounted for in DV better than any other setting could.

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Thats the thing that troubled me, I was watching Aquaman in DV. Most of my films are in DV, through some reading, I learned that DV dynamic metadata and tone mapping will not correct white clipping. Its set properly at the factory, or you use a pattern like I did.

DV ahould maintain the APL from the HDR master. What is your OLED Light setting

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morphinapg 06-15-2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58186628)
Thats the thing that troubled me, I was watching Aquaman in DV. Most of my films are in DV, through some reading, I learned that DV dynamic metadata and tone mapping will not correct white clipping. Its set properly at the factory, or you use a pattern like I did.

DV ahould maintain the APL from the HDR master. What is your OLED Light setting

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There should be no clipping in DV. Each scene has its own metadata including MaxCLL, and the tonemapping will take into account of that as long as the mastering monitor didn't clip those details.

OLED Light is the default 50 which is correct for DV.

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DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58186698)
There should be no clipping in DV. Each scene has its own metadata including MaxCLL, and the tonemapping will take into account of that as long as the mastering monitor didn't clip those details.

OLED Light is the default 50 which is correct for DV.

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True, DV doesn't clip, it rolls off. The EOTF is seperate from contrast control.

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ray0414 06-15-2019 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58186218)
I honestly wasn't as impressed as most people seem to be. While it's bright and colorful, it doesn't have a lot of dynamic range. It's like they took what was already in the SDR version and cranked it up to brighter levels, which imo, isn't really what HDR is about. HDR is about expanding it. So the overall brightness in most cases should not change too much, but it should allow greater contrast between the midtones and highlights, and I just didn't get much of that with this movie.


if youre saying Aquaman had sort of a "bleachy" look, then I'd definitely agree. good colors, but the contrast sucked imo.

DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ray0414 (Post 58187934)
if youre saying Aquaman had sort of a "bleachy" look, then I'd definitely agree. good colors, but the contrast sucked imo.

Let me ask you this, in the scene on what looks like a island and Black Manta arrives, do you see clouds above the ocean?

Aquaman was graded on the Dolby Pulsar, now I don't know what the MaxCLL is, but I assume its pretty high. The contrast setting may be to high, especially since it brightens the entire screen, unlike the backlight particularly during HDR playback.

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morphinapg 06-15-2019 11:31 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58187982)
Let me ask you this, in the scene on what looks like a island and Black Manta arrives, do you see clouds above the ocean?

Aquaman was graded on the Dolby Pulsar, now I don't know what the MaxCLL is, but I assume its pretty high. The contrast setting may be to high, especially since it brightens the entire screen, unlike the backlight particularly during HDR playback.

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Is this what you mean? Because the clouds look fine to me here. Are you using DV Dark mode? DV Bright does have a harsher tonemapping which crushes more highlights. Also if you increase OLED Light from the default that will have a similar effect.

Watching in HDR10 may look different of course.

DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58188048)
Is this what you mean? Because the clouds look fine to me here. Are you using DV Dark mode? DV Bright does have a harsher tonemapping which crushes more highlights. Also if you increase OLED Light from the default that will have a similar effect.



Watching in HDR10 may look different of course.

Yeah, thats the scene. I have a Vizio P Series, I had to reduce contrast by 3, so that the display no longer clipped white between 1000-4000 nits. DV playback all the way, I use Calibrated Dark now with an increased backlight setting to match the color control setting.

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morphinapg 06-15-2019 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58188064)
Yeah, thats the scene. I have a Vizio P Series, I had to reduce contrast by 3, so that the display no longer clipped white between 1000-4000 nits. DV playback all the way, I use Calibrated Dark now with an increased backlight setting to match the color control setting.

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Ah, sounds like your TV's settings probably work different than me. While OLED Light and Contrast both affect tonemapping somewhat, they don't do a whole lot below their default values except make things darker. From my experimentation, the default settings are almost always optimal. The only setting I do change is I drop brightness from 50 to 49, as strangely 50 was resulting in some raised black levels, even in letterbox during bright scenes. 49 solved that on both disc and streaming for me.

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DisplayCalNoob 06-15-2019 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58188074)
Ah, sounds like your TV's settings probably work different than me. While OLED Light and Contrast both affect tonemapping somewhat, they don't do a whole lot below their default values except make things darker. From my experimentation, the default settings are almost always optimal. The only setting I do change is I drop brightness from 50 to 49, as strangely 50 was resulting in some raised black levels, even in letterbox during bright scenes. 49 solved that on both disc and streaming for me.

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You know whats weird, Dolby has never said in any marketing material, that the basic display settings should never be changed.

With, my current settings, contrast has got a boost. I have to say though, the Vudu stream in DV has even better color.

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morphinapg 06-16-2019 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58188080)
You know whats weird, Dolby has never said in any marketing material, that the basic display settings should never be changed.

With, my current settings, contrast has got a boost. I have to say though, the Vudu stream in DV has even better color.

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With the way DV tonemapping works, it takes capabilities of both displays into account when calculating tonemapping, so it would only make sense that those calculations assume default settings for correct tonemapping. However of course every panel has slight variations from one to the next. So it's certainly possible your default settings may not be the most correct. Does your display have calibration controls for DV? I know mine doesn't so I have no way to verify anything definitely.

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DisplayCalNoob 06-16-2019 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58188082)
With the way DV tonemapping works, it takes capabilities of both displays into account when calculating tonemapping, so it would only make sense that those calculations assume default settings for correct tonemapping. However of course every panel has slight variations from one to the next. So it's certainly possible your default settings may not be the most correct. Does your display have calibration controls for DV? I know mine doesn't so I have no way to verify anything definitely.

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Yeah, you can do a two point grayscale calibration and 11 point white balance is used to calibrate the PQ EOTF. The CMS works as well.

The contrast control is just to high at stock, its true for SDR content as well. My LG UP970 may be introducing RGB errors at the HDMI port.

I wonder if DV Bright on your OLED, with a slightly reduced contrast control would just match DV Dark.

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morphinapg 06-16-2019 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob (Post 58188102)
Yeah, you can do a two point grayscale calibration and 11 point white balance is used to calibrate the PQ EOTF. The CMS works as well.

The contrast control is just to high at stock, its true for SDR content as well. My LG UP970 may be introducing RGB errors at the HDMI port.

I wonder if DV Bright on your OLED, with a slightly reduced contrast control would just match DV Dark.

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When I lower contrast so that the two modes have similar APL, the Dark mode still seems to have more contrast overall. Same thing with OLED Light. Both controls seem to similarly affect tonemapping but there are some slight differences. Contrast got it closer together than OLED Light did. But both controls appeared to negatively impact the quality of the tonemapping though, slightly, even if they did reveal more detail in highlights. Loses a bit of its punch. Sort of like lower gamma to make up for what otherwise would have been a darker image (though it does get darker too). But it's clearly more complicated than that too. Just a lot going on with DV tonemapping it seems.

Anyway, back on topic I guess lol. Even with all of those highlights visible, there's still not a huge contrast between the midtones and brightest highlights in Aquaman. While the brightest highlights are very bright, so is the APL, so you sort of limit the dynamics of the image that way. These kind of movies typically look great for those who watch HDR with the lights on, but for those of us who watch in the dark where our eyes can adjust to different APLs, they aren't quite as impressive.

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DisplayCalNoob 06-16-2019 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58188136)
When I lower contrast so that the two modes have similar APL, the Dark mode still seems to have more contrast overall. Same thing with OLED Light. Both controls seem to similarly affect tonemapping but there are some slight differences. Contrast got it closer together than OLED Light did. But both controls appeared to negatively impact the quality of the tonemapping though, slightly, even if they did reveal more detail in highlights. Loses a bit of its punch. Sort of like lower gamma to make up for what otherwise would have been a darker image (though it does get darker too). But it's clearly more complicated than that too. Just a lot going on with DV tonemapping it seems.

Anyway, back on topic I guess lol. Even with all of those highlights visible, there's still not a huge contrast between the midtones and brightest highlights in Aquaman. While the brightest highlights are very bright, so is the APL, so you sort of limit the dynamics of the image that way. These kind of movies typically look great for those who watch HDR with the lights on, but for those of us who watch in the dark where our eyes can adjust to different APLs, they aren't quite as impressive.

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Yeah, its why it lacks depth in those scenes, the majority of the film lacks depth.

Star Wars TLJ island scenes has a lot off depth, Jumanji WTTJ does as well.

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puddy77 06-17-2019 08:03 AM

I'm only two episodes (3 hours) in, but if you can stand Refn's typically languorous pacing, Too Old to Die Young is one of the most gorgeous shows I've seen yet. The HDR really stands out on this. The color is luscious. Lot's of neon lights and inky shadows.

aaronwt 06-17-2019 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphinapg (Post 58188048)
Is this what you mean? Because the clouds look fine to me here. Are you using DV Dark mode? DV Bright does have a harsher tonemapping which crushes more highlights. Also if you increase OLED Light from the default that will have a similar effect.

Watching in HDR10 may look different of course.

I had no problems with clipping from those scenes on my TCL 6 Series. It looked fine in both DV and HDR10.

lujan 06-18-2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt (Post 58055718)
It was in HD DV 5.1 DD+ when I watched it a couple of Sundays ago.

Assuming I'm remembering correctly.

With Netflix I check an HDR title first on my ATV 4K to see if it has Atmos audio. Then if not I watch it in DV from my TCL UHD TV, or my FireTV 4K, or my Philips UHD BD player. I watched the Wandering Earth from my Philip's player since I can toggle the streaming info on it to see what bitrate encode is being played from Netflix.

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I tried to watch "The Wandering Earth" today on two separate ATV 4K devices and they both indicated "Atmos" on the tag but only played in stereo so don't know what's going on with this title. I finally gave up and removed it from my queue. I have plenty of others I need to watch to worry about this one.

Mattopotamus 06-18-2019 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewTT (Post 58155256)
First one was alright then it quickly goes down hill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ph8te (Post 58157520)
It’s a slight departure and really depends on what you’re looking for out of BM. It’s still Dark Tales of technology. They aren’t bad (IMO), but they probably won’t appeal to everyone (as we can see from the reviews). I’d watch and make the judgement for yourself. A good bit fans of Snowfall will be happy about an appearance in episode 2.

Finally watched it. While not bad, it didn’t feel like black mirror at all.

bobbino421 06-19-2019 05:05 AM

68 Attachment(s)
If anyone is interested?
I personally never have see this movie in its entirety. I may now!
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/06/18/the-shining-4k

RagtopFE 06-19-2019 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbino421 (Post 58200798)
If anyone is interested?
I personally never have see this movie in its entirety. I may now!
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/06/18/the-shining-4k

Very interested. This has my name written ALL over it!

cydeweyz 06-19-2019 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbino421 (Post 58200798)
If anyone is interested?
I personally never have see this movie in its entirety. I may now!
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/06/18/the-shining-4k



If you love this movie, then you love Ready Player One for its “Shining” role in it [emoji1487]

hernanu 06-19-2019 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbino421 (Post 58200798)
If anyone is interested?
I personally never have see this movie in its entirety. I may now!
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/06/18/the-shining-4k

An excellent, eerie and thoroughly scary movie, so of course.

Nicholson's portrayal has been copied MANY times, but never equaled.

lujan 06-19-2019 09:36 AM

I remember watching "The Shining" many years ago and not liking it much. I don't see how a 4k disc is going to change the story in any way. :)

Ph8te 06-19-2019 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbino421 (Post 58200798)
If anyone is interested?
I personally never have see this movie in its entirety. I may now!
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2019/06/18/the-shining-4k



No one.....many ones ;) this is a “classic” so it’s a must pick up for me. I’ve had it on pre order for awhile now.

hernanu 06-19-2019 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lujan (Post 58201920)
I remember watching "The Shining" many years ago and not liking it much. I don't see how a 4k disc is going to change the story in any way. :)


I don't think changing the story is in the UHD metadata, so if you didn't like it then, you won't like it now. But for those of us who did like it, the brooding nature of the entire movie can't help but be improved with better color, light and so on.

I saw it when it was released in 1980, made from one of my favorite Stephen King books. It came out in 35 mm film, so hopefully the 4K release can capture the way it was done by Stanley Kubrik.

ray0414 06-19-2019 11:53 PM

here's a complete list of the currently available 4k Blu Rays :) I'm going to attempt to count lol

will add this to the front list.

https://hd-report.com/list-of-4k-ult...y-disc-titles/



BTW. i added this list and they also have a master NETFLIX list also that i added to the front list. These master lists pretty much take over the front list. Adding master lists to the front is basically the extent of adding to the front list ill be doing from now on. Hell, i see its been since last August since i last updated the list LOL

bobbino421 06-20-2019 03:54 AM

The reviewer I believe he said it was a reference worthy disc, not an exact quote but very very good PQ


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