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post #27931 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 01:01 PM
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It seems when it comes to UHD, some people really care about things like sharpness and detail, and others, like me, really only care about how much of an upgrade the HDR is in terms of highlights, shadows, and color. For me, HDR is probably 90% of the experience of a well made UHD disc. To the point where I just don't care about resolution. Like, it's a nice bonus if the resolution is also increased, but I'm not going to get a disc based solely on that. That's not what UHD is about to me.

So based on that, it sounds like the Bond UHDs are worthless to me. Which is particularly disappointing in regards to Skyfall, as I felt that movie had the most potential to look insane if done right in HDR. Guess I'll be sticking with my standard Blu-rays.

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post #27932 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 01:17 PM
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We will soon see about DV but typically for me it’s an incremental improvement (maybe 15-20%). I’m a huge Bond fan. I have all of ~24 in 4K on iTunes.


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What’s the eta on Bond with Dolby Vision?



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post #27933 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 01:34 PM
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Dolby Vision in just about every situation I know about, is an identical HDR grade. The only difference you see is in how the DV tech tonemaps that to your display, which will of course depend on your display's capabilities as well as the dynamic metadata.

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post #27934 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 02:45 PM
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What’s the eta on Bond with Dolby Vision?



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post #27935 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:05 PM
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I have the Bond 50 set. I’m not at home to check, but I don’t think it came with any digital codes. Was probably before digital redemption really took off. I don’t remember. Would be cool if they let you redeem the box set and iTunes upgrades them to 4K HDR.🙏
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post #27936 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the Back to the Future trilogy (35th anniversary) is coming next year to 4k Bd along with Jaws(45th anniversary).
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post #27937 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
It seems when it comes to UHD, some people really care about things like sharpness and detail, and others, like me, really only care about how much of an upgrade the HDR is in terms of highlights, shadows, and color. For me, HDR is probably 90% of the experience of a well made UHD disc. To the point where I just don't care about resolution. Like, it's a nice bonus if the resolution is also increased, but I'm not going to get a disc based solely on that. That's not what UHD is about to me.

So based on that, it sounds like the Bond UHDs are worthless to me. Which is particularly disappointing in regards to Skyfall, as I felt that movie had the most potential to look insane if done right in HDR. Guess I'll be sticking with my standard Blu-rays.

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Resolution is undervalued.

720p with HDR is lipstick on a pig. The overall quality is still crap, especially if you watch on a larger TV, to which tvs are getting larger and larger, so the resolution increase provides a future proof aspect as people get larger tvs. Of course I'm referring to native 4k rather than upscaled, which is also noticeable on larger tvs.
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post #27938 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Resolution is undervalued.

720p with HDR is lipstick on a pig. The overall quality is still crap, especially if you watch on a larger TV, to which tvs are getting larger and larger, so the resolution increase provides a future proof aspect as people get larger tvs. Of course I'm referring to native 4k rather than upscaled, which is also noticeable on larger tvs.
True, the jump from 1080p to 2160p SDR on the Bond movies is astonishing when you compare side by side. I found out the hard way when I was watching one of the Bond movies (Roger Moore I believe was Bond for this one) and the iTunes streaming site was having issues. I then pulled out the BD version of the same movie so I could continue watching. Boy, was I shocked at the difference. I didn't realize that there was such a huge difference until this happened where I was forced to switch to the 1080p version. It sounds like the jump from SDR to HDR is not as profound from what I've been reading the last couple of days? I've watched all of the 4k Bond movies except that last 4 in anticipation of the Daniel Craig releases in 4k HDR.
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post #27939 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Resolution is undervalued.



720p with HDR is lipstick on a pig. The overall quality is still crap, especially if you watch on a larger TV, to which tvs are getting larger and larger, so the resolution increase provides a future proof aspect as people get larger tvs. Of course I'm referring to native 4k rather than upscaled, which is also noticeable on larger tvs.
Honestly, I disagree. No reason to compare anything to 720p. We're taking about 1080p/2K, which is absolutely not crap.

HDR completely transforms the image. 4K makes a minor improvement. Even if you're seeing the full benefit of resolution, which most people aren't with their size/distance ratio.

Most people don't sit close enough to see the full benefit of 4K based on their TV size. Many might not even have a size/distance ratio to let them see literally any benefit in resolution besides things like chroma subsampling, and that benefit is there on every UHD disc regardless of how sharp the picture is.

I have a 55" TV that I sit approximately 5ft from. This gives me a maximum potential resolution of about 1618p. That's about 3K. And I sit at probably a closer relative distance compared to screen size than most.

If you have a 65" and you sit 8ft away for example, you're getting about 1195p, only a 10% improvement in sharpness over 1080p. Again, this isn't factoring in chroma subsampling, but that benefit is seen on every UHD, so sharpness of the material doesn't matter there.

So yeah it's fair to say that with most people's situations, HDR is going to be the much more transformative aspect of the experience. The only reason I think people are focusing more on resolution lately is that there's been a surprising amount of UHD content recently that had HDR barely any different than SDR. But that's a failure in the part of the studios. If you regularly play HDR games (which are almost all done great) or have enough experience with other well done HDR, I think anybody would realize that HDR is the much more transformative upgrade, when done right. One of the best looking UHD discs I have is Mad Max Fury Road, which actually looks blurrier to my eyes than most standard Blu-rays.

It's fantastic when you have good 4K on top of good HDR. Of course ideally we should all want both, but I would FAR prefer good HDR over good 4K. Good resolution alone will never be enough to sell me. To me that just screams that they don't know how to make use of the format.

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post #27940 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:42 PM
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Of course ideally we should all want both, but I would FAR prefer good HDR over good 4K.
Good thing we can have both.
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post #27941 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:46 PM
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True, the jump from 1080p to 2160p SDR on the Bond movies is astonishing when you compare side by side. I found out the hard way when I was watching one of the Bond movies (Roger Moore I believe was Bond for this one) and the iTunes streaming site was having issues. I then pulled out the BD version of the same movie so I could continue watching. Boy, was I shocked at the difference. I didn't realize that there was such a huge difference until this happened where I was forced to switch to the 1080p version. It sounds like the jump from SDR to HDR is not as profound from what I've been reading the last couple of days? I've watched all of the 4k Bond movies except that last 4 in anticipation of the Daniel Craig releases in 4k HDR.
Oh no.. no no no Its easy to give a few bad examples but trust me HDR IS WHERE ITS AT! And 90% of its awesome regardless of resolution (talking about upscale vs real 4K content). And even 1080P content with HDR is amazing but Ray went down to 720p and he's got a big ass 82' inch tv now lol so he notices a lot more regarding resolution than most of us with 65 or even 55 inch tvs would.



Im the same with the 1st post on this page; I'd say HDR is 80% of the fun, resolution around 20% in a simple breakdown cuz let's face it, there's way more 4K content then there is 1080p or 720p. If it was less, those percentages would be different.

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post #27942 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 03:46 PM
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Good thing we can have both.
Exactly, I always want both. But if we can only have one, which is the case with many releases, good HDR will win me over and good 4K alone won't. It's just a much bigger difference when done right.

It's just sort of been a recent frustration that a lot of the discs I've seen that are highly praised are good at 4K, but not HDR. Without good HDR, you will not see me screaming praise of a release.

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post #27943 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Dolby Vision in just about every situation I know about, is an identical HDR grade. The only difference you see is in how the DV tech tonemaps that to your display, which will of course depend on your display's capabilities as well as the dynamic metadata.

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And it’s applied dynamically which is nice if they do it right. Sony does it right.


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post #27944 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 04:44 PM
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Oh no.. no no no Its easy to give a few bad examples but trust me HDR IS WHERE ITS AT! And 90% of its awesome regardless of resolution (talking about upscale vs real 4K content). And even 1080P content with HDR is amazing but Ray went down to 720p and he's got a big ass 82' inch tv now lol so he notices a lot more regarding resolution than most of us with 65 or even 55 inch tvs would.

Im the same with the 1st post on this page; I'd say HDR is 80% of the fun, resolution around 20% in a simple breakdown cuz let's face it, there's way more 4K content then there is 1080p or 720p. If it was less, those percentages would be different.
I agree for the most part but I was referring to the Bond 4k upgrades. Also, it doesn't appear to be "...WHERE ITS AT!..." at least for the Daniel Craig collection judging by what folks are indicating here on this thread?
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post #27945 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 04:47 PM
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I agree for the most part but I was referring to the Bond 4k upgrades. Also, it doesn't appear to be "...WHERE ITS AT!..." at least for the Daniel Craig collection judging by what folks are indicating here on this thread?


Lujan, I’ve scanned a few. They’re not bad and, more importantly, they are the best version of the movie. You’ll have the free (hopefully) iTunes upgrade anyway so win win.


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post #27946 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 04:57 PM
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The 4k versions are the best versions of the Daniel Craig Bond films. In some cases, scene improvements are incremental but I think it’s what was intended. The grading of this collection does not “go over the top” with HDR. There’s no envelope pushing with scene contrast, bright highlights, over saturated colors, etc...

The grading is subtle in Skyfall but still the best it’s been. The contrast of some of the dark scenes in Spectre is improved over the blu-ray. I think it comes down to expectations and what people like/expect out of HDR. Personally, for these films, less is more IMO. I can totally see how some might be disappointed but It’s very obvious that the HDR grading was kept conservative. For $10 a piece, I’m keeping them.


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post #27947 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
Oh no.. no no no Its easy to give a few bad examples but trust me HDR IS WHERE ITS AT! And 90% of its awesome regardless of resolution (talking about upscale vs real 4K content). And even 1080P content with HDR is amazing but Ray went down to 720p and he's got a big ass 82' inch tv now lol so he notices a lot more regarding resolution than most of us with 65 or even 55 inch tvs would.

Im the same with the 1st post on this page; I'd say HDR is 80% of the fun, resolution around 20% in a simple breakdown cuz let's face it, there's way more 4K content then there is 1080p or 720p. If it was less, those percentages would be different.
I agree for the most part but I was referring to the Bond 4k upgrades. Also, it doesn't appear to be "...WHERE ITS AT!..." at least for the Daniel Craig collection judging by what folks are indicating here on this thread?
I thought you were referring to the general HDR vs SDR that they were talking about. But yeah from the first 3 Bond movies, dont expect any HDR at all. The best HDR these movies have is the static menu image that's bright, clean, and very impressive.
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post #27948 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 06:31 PM
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Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

For those that want to check out Star Wars IX in Dolby theaters presales went live ~8PM eastern.

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post #27949 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 06:40 PM
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For those that want to check out Star Wars IX in Dolby theaters presses went live ~8PM eastern.
Thanks. I just reserved my DOlby theater ticket. For Thursday night, December 19th.
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post #27950 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 07:07 PM
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Yes, thanks for the heads up. Also secured my Dolby seats for the 19th.
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post #27951 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The Back to the Future trilogy was confirmed for 4k Bd for summer 2020 by the studios today via Twitter and a press release. (35th anniversary).

Unconfirmed but looks like Jaws is also coming 2020 (45th anniversary).
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post #27952 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 07:39 PM
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The Back to the Future trilogy was confirmed for 4k Bd for summer 2020 by the studios today via Twitter and a press release. (35th anniversary).



Unconfirmed but looks like Jaws is also coming 2020 (45th anniversary).


Knew about Back to the Future but can you post the link about the Jaws 4K rumor?


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post #27953 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Knew about Back to the Future but can you post the link about the Jaws 4K rumor?


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Bill Hunt on twitter says he inquired about both and it's what he was told by people he knows.
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Bill Hunt on twitter says he inquired about both and it's what he was told by people he knows.
Found it, thanks.
https://twitter.com/billhuntbits/sta...304337408?s=21
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post #27955 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a 55" tv
That's literally all that needs to be said in this discussion lol

I have an 82" and a 55" and i can tell you 100% that i can see more detail on my 82" from 10ft away than i can on my 55" tv from 3 feet away. The detail on the 55" just doesn't exist, no matter how close you get to it.

The reason i bring up 720P, is because HDR cannot transform quality of the original source. With a low quality source, HDR can actually make it worse by amplifying artifacts/grain/noise. This is why having the sharpnest/cleanest image possible is best when using HDR, especially on larger tvs (and again, tvs are getting larger and 75" tvs are getting more and more common and will replace 65 as the new big size that everyone wants).

"It’s the same kind of concept with HDR, when you have an image and you pump ten times as much light in to that image then things like noise and grain and any type of visual artefact will get enhanced substantially! So not only is the light level substantially brighter where all the inherent flaws of the image will show up - a lot of these new HDR screens are pretty large and the size of these screens alone will cause more problems. The fact that images are sharper, there’s a larger colour space, the brightness level is a lot greater. Your picture needs to be prepared for that type of image.
"

"HDR will expose your picture for every flaw that you have. HDR accentuates film grain massively."

https://www.definitionmagazine.com/j...-ready-for-hdr


i like HDR a lot, but resolution can be just as important as you go up in SIZE, which is growing yearly. Cannot discount that.'


I think people would value resolution more if they had a chance to watch native 4k on a giant screen, it looks awesome. It certainly has about as much WOW factor as HDR. because HDR cant necessarily create detail out of thin air, it can only be as good as what it has to work with, so give it as much to work with as possible!
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
That's literally all that needs to be said in this discussion lol
I also have a 65". I was just giving an example.

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I have an 82" and a 55" and i can tell you 100% that i can see more detail on my 82" from 10ft away than i can on my 55" tv from 3 feet away. The detail on the 55" just doesn't exist, no matter how close you get to it.
Well that's just an absurd statement. Either the pixels are there or they aren't. Being a bigger screen doesn't mean it magically has more pixels. The amount of detail you can see is relative to the size/distance ratio you have. 82" from 10ft away gives you the same fidelity as a 55" screen from 6.7ft away, about 1206p for the average human. That's basic optics science. Learn about "resolving power". It's the same way we how we know how much detail telescopes will be able to resolve based on the size of the object, and the distance from that object.

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The reason i bring up 720P, is because HDR cannot transform quality of the original source.
It's not about quality, it's about how it completely transforms the experience. 720p with good HDR will look a million times better than 1080p without.


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With a low quality source, HDR can actually make it worse by amplifying artifacts/grain/noise. This is why having the sharpnest/cleanest image possible is best when using HDR, especially on larger tvs (and again, tvs are getting larger and 75" tvs are getting more and more common and will replace 65 as the new big size that everyone wants).
Here's where your problem is: I don't see those as flaws. Also, lower resolution will cover up these so called "flaws" that higher resolutions expose more of. Remember when Blu-ray started coming out and people were seeing grain for the first time after being used to DVD?
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post #27957 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 11:40 PM
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Just my 2cents worth - I have a 65" LG E6 which was one of the best TV's of 2016 and I'm amazed when ever I see a good HDR 4K or Dolby Vision source on this TV. I see people asking and talking about this stuff and all I can say is, that on a budget TV you most likely are not getting the real experience of 4K HDR - it's stunning when compared to any other source material displayed on a good set.


A good OLED set in the right lighting conditions combined with 4K + Dolby Vision is sometimes like looking through a window, it's hard to describe to non OLED owners, because the image has so much contrast that it almost becomes 3D like. I just wanted to chime in with this. I actually say to myself, everyday, I love this TV, no kidding it's that good, despite being old to some. I have read the new C9, E9's etc can blow the E6 out the water, if so, then it only backs my original thought's, HDR / Dolby Vision on a good OLED is just amazing. I'm keeping my E6 due to it being the last of the all time great 3d TV's.


4K is OK - 4K HDR is amazing - 4K Dolby Vision is as good as it get's if you ask me, but only with good source material, otherwise you will see a lot of, what maybe wrong with the source.

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post #27958 of 28604 Old 10-21-2019, 11:47 PM
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C6 here so I'm in the same boat. I typically prefer the image on my 55" C6 over my 65" Sony x930d, which is also brighter than my C6.

But the content has to use the format right. Lots of content might add some extra detail, but barely uses the HDR spectrum available to them, and it's such a waste of the technology. While extra dynamic range isn't always appropriate for every single movie, there are a ton of movies where it is appropriate and is not being used effectively, and to me it's like a lot of Hollywood just doesn't know what they're doing right now. They're too stuck in older methods and don't understand what the new technology is about or something. When done right, HDR is just so much more of a difference than 4K, but there's been too much of a lack of HDR done right imo with movies imo.

Games on the other hand are almost universally doing a great job with HDR. Hollywood could learn a thing or two.

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post #27959 of 28604 Old 10-22-2019, 02:10 AM
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Very good HDR on the new Amazon show Modern Love

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post #27960 of 28604 Old 10-22-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
I think people would value resolution more if they had a chance to watch native 4k on a giant screen, it looks awesome. It certainly has about as much WOW factor as HDR. because HDR cant necessarily create detail out of thin air, it can only be as good as what it has to work with, so give it as much to work with as possible!

Agreed. I have a 10' UST UHD HDR laser projection setup in my living room.
I know that is not the norm, but the increased resolution is very apparent at that size/distance. Obviously I'm giving up some black level and HDR intensity compared to my 75" UHD panel in what used to be my dedicated theatre room, but the total movie watching experience is better on the big screen. One of the improvements is that grain doesn't take on a "video noise" look that flat panels can exhibit.
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