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post #28951 of 29156 Old 01-13-2020, 09:01 PM
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TOGO on Disney+ is fantastic! I might be late to the party but it’s just a stunning movie.
It has a very stylized look but there are moment when Dolby Vision struts it’s stuff.

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post #28952 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone ever curious what Tron Legacy would look like in HDR? 1 of the HDTV Test writers gave the Tron Trailer an HDR grade...



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post #28953 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 04:46 AM
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Thanks @ray0414 for that! Always keeping us up to date.
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post #28954 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Anyone ever curious what Tron Legacy would look like in HDR? 1 of the HDTV Test writers gave the Tron Trailer an HDR grade...





https://youtu.be/_MSirpjp2P4
This would be my dream 4k hdr disc! As long as they keep the awesome audio and don't neuter it!
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post #28955 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 10:33 AM
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Oh, I know. And I know nothing will ever change your mind, but it was too perfect to pass up.
I feel like if HFR was the original standard for years and years, and someone suddenly came out with the first 24 fps movie... it would receive a similar reaction. 'Why does this movie look so unrealistic? I don't like it.'
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post #28956 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MarshallFaulk28 View Post
I feel like if HFR was the original standard for years and years, and someone suddenly came out with the first 24 fps movie... it would receive a similar reaction. 'Why does this movie look so unrealistic? I don't like it.'
Art is shaped as much by the collective conscious as it is by the creator of that art. So the point, while valid, is largely irrelevant. Artists are pushing boundaries by releasing HFR movies which is healthy for film as a whole, but we've had 3 high profile rejections in recent years.

In other words, people like what they like and directors are getting opportunities to try to change people's perception but aren't making much progress. I know, personally, that the Hobbit HFR was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had in a theater and that makes me triple guess wanting to shell out $20 to do it again.
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post #28957 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MarshallFaulk28 View Post
I feel like if HFR was the original standard for years and years, and someone suddenly came out with the first 24 fps movie... it would receive a similar reaction. 'Why does this movie look so unrealistic? I don't like it.'
I understand that point of view and I previously thought that might be the case, but after watching both ways, I now don't agree at all. I don't actually think it had anything to do with what I was used to. Being used to 24 fps isn't what drives the "suspension of disbelief"; it's just the 24 fps cadence itself.

The benefits of 60 fps become immediately clear as soon as we start watching as far as the crispness and smoothness of the video and lack of blur. Those are all definite benefits in a vacuum. The unfortunate side effect of that smoothness is that the acting suddenly becomes more transparent; there's something about seeing every little detail of movement in the actors' faces that makes them seem less believable as the characters they are trying to be. The added reality transports us onto the set instead of watching a movie. It's a quite strange phenomenon, but I really don't think it has anything at all to do with what we're used to. We watch 60 fps content on TV regularly, so we're very much used to viewing it in general.

Watching the very first scene in 24 fps, I watched Henry Brogan laying down and adjusting his sniper rifle in preparation for taking a long-distance shot, and it is engaging. In 60 fps, I instead saw Will Smith laying down on a movie set, pretending to be someone as he's awkwardly adjusting a prop. The difference wasn't what I was used to; the 60 fps was in 4K HDR and looked so much better than the 1080p SDR 24 fps alternative. But the "suspension of disbelief" created by the 24 fps cadence just completely disappears in 60 fps.

In a scene soon after inside a boat, even something as simple as the dialogue and where the sounds seem to come from was surprisingly affected. In 24 fps, the dialogue sounded completely normal and the two men are talking, it's seamless. In 60 fps, the dialogue and how it moved between the speakers suddenly had a serious disconnect with what was on the screen. Somehow the smoothness of 60 fps and the way that it transported me onto the set suddenly created this disconnect, as my brain was expecting the dialogue to match exactly where the people were, and it exposed an issue there that never existed in 24 fps. That's the one that surprised me the most.
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post #28958 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 01:31 PM
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Can't wait till I pick up Gemini Man! Thoroughly enjoyed in HFR at theater, can wait to experience at home!


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post #28959 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
Watching the very first scene in 24 fps, I watched Henry Brogan laying down and adjusting his sniper rifle in preparation for taking a long-distance shot, and it is engaging. In 60 fps, I instead saw Will Smith laying down on a movie set, pretending to be someone as he's awkwardly adjusting a prop. The difference wasn't what I was used to; the 60 fps was in 4K HDR and looked so much better than the 1080p SDR 24 fps alternative. But the "suspension of disbelief" created by the 24 fps cadence just completely disappears in 60 fps.
Very well put, and completely agreed.
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post #28960 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post
Art is shaped as much by the collective conscious as it is by the creator of that art. So the point, while valid, is largely irrelevant. Artists are pushing boundaries by releasing HFR movies which is healthy for film as a whole, but we've had 3 high profile rejections in recent years.

In other words, people like what they like and directors are getting opportunities to try to change people's perception but aren't making much progress. I know, personally, that the Hobbit HFR was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've ever had in a theater and that makes me triple guess wanting to shell out $20 to do it again.
Personally, I really liked the Hobbit HFR version. Had no problems with it, loved the clarity and movement. The battles were really impressive, especially the one involving the Goblin king.

Just a data point here, to each his or her own, but if higher frame rates approximate life more closely, I prefer more of that.

Like you mention, people like what they like and there's a long training period of eighty years or so to overcome. I get why people don't like it, if you are used to the 24 frames speed.

Not negating your experience. Shaky cam is my bane, I get affected by that to different degrees - still haven't finished Cloverfield after two attempts sent me running from the theater or living room.
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post #28961 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Anyone ever curious what Tron Legacy would look like in HDR? 1 of the HDTV Test writers gave the Tron Trailer an HDR grade...


https://youtu.be/_MSirpjp2P4
Is Tron Legacy available in UHD/HDR from Disney+?

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post #28962 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Is Tron Legacy available in UHD/HDR from Disney+?


Nope it's not 4k HDR anywhere.
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post #28963 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I understand that point of view and I previously thought that might be the case, but after watching both ways, I now don't agree at all. I don't actually think it had anything to do with what I was used to. Being used to 24 fps isn't what drives the "suspension of disbelief"; it's just the 24 fps cadence itself.

The benefits of 60 fps become immediately clear as soon as we start watching as far as the crispness and smoothness of the video and lack of blur. Those are all definite benefits in a vacuum. The unfortunate side effect of that smoothness is that the acting suddenly becomes more transparent; there's something about seeing every little detail of movement in the actors' faces that makes them seem less believable as the characters they are trying to be. The added reality transports us onto the set instead of watching a movie. It's a quite strange phenomenon, but I really don't think it has anything at all to do with what we're used to. We watch 60 fps content on TV regularly, so we're very much used to viewing it in general.

Watching the very first scene in 24 fps, I watched Henry Brogan laying down and adjusting his sniper rifle in preparation for taking a long-distance shot, and it is engaging. In 60 fps, I instead saw Will Smith laying down on a movie set, pretending to be someone as he's awkwardly adjusting a prop. The difference wasn't what I was used to; the 60 fps was in 4K HDR and looked so much better than the 1080p SDR 24 fps alternative. But the "suspension of disbelief" created by the 24 fps cadence just completely disappears in 60 fps.

In a scene soon after inside a boat, even something as simple as the dialogue and where the sounds seem to come from was surprisingly affected. In 24 fps, the dialogue sounded completely normal and the two men are talking, it's seamless. In 60 fps, the dialogue and how it moved between the speakers suddenly had a serious disconnect with what was on the screen. Somehow the smoothness of 60 fps and the way that it transported me onto the set suddenly created this disconnect, as my brain was expecting the dialogue to match exactly where the people were, and it exposed an issue there that never existed in 24 fps. That's the one that surprised me the most.
This is what us old farts are used to. The younger people are not, so 60fps is more normal to them.

I would think as time goes on, 60fps(or higher) will become the norm. No idea if I would be alive when it happens though. But I expect it will happen at some point.

I'm hoping my Gemini Man UHD BD rental shows up today so I can take a look at it in HFR. I specifically avoided the HFR version when I saw it at the theater. Since I did not have a good reaction to it when I saw the Hobbit. I remember specifically seeing the Hobbit a second time in the theater, at the normal framerate, since I had disliked the HFR version so much.
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post #28964 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 03:09 PM
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Nope it's not 4k HDR anywhere.
Well that sucks. But I guess this also brings back bad memories. I'm still pissed that Disney changed their minds about a sequel to Tron Legacy. I remember really looking forward to one.

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post #28965 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 03:50 PM
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This is what us old farts are used to. The younger people are not, so 60fps is more normal to them.

I would think as time goes on, 60fps(or higher) will become the norm. No idea if I would be alive when it happens though. But I expect it will happen at some point.

I'm hoping my Gemini Man UHD BD rental shows up today so I can take a look at it in HFR. I specifically avoided the HFR version when I saw it at the theater. Since I did not have a good reaction to it when I saw the Hobbit. I remember specifically seeing the Hobbit a second time in the theater, at the normal framerate, since I had disliked the HFR version so much.
This is a reasonable position. It's perfectly fine not to like HFR. What I can't accept is the people who say that HFR is inherently inferior and refuse to even entertain the possibility that their impressions could be influenced by a lifetime of watching films at 24 fps. To not even admit that this is possible is utterly ridiculous and undermines any further arguments made.

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post #28966 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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Don’t mean to interrupt the HFR talk, but The Running Man was upgraded 4K DV on ITunes.
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post #28967 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post

Watching the very first scene in 24 fps, I watched Henry Brogan laying down and adjusting his sniper rifle in preparation for taking a long-distance shot, and it is engaging. In 60 fps, I instead saw Will Smith laying down on a movie set, pretending to be someone as he's awkwardly adjusting a prop. The difference wasn't what I was used to; the 60 fps was in 4K HDR and looked so much better than the 1080p SDR 24 fps alternative. But the "suspension of disbelief" created by the 24 fps cadence just completely disappears in 60 fps.

Haven't seen Gemini Man, but this is exactly how I felt about Billy Lynn. 60fps in motion pictures just makes me feel like I'm watching a YouTube video of a movie being made. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing for filming nature and "real world" footage. I just think that it makes me think too much about the movie being made, and detracts from my falling into the story.
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post #28968 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 09:51 PM
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Don’t mean to interrupt the HFR talk, but The Running Man was upgraded 4K DV on ITunes.
No, please interrupt it... PLEASE!!!!

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post #28969 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 10:34 PM
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Watched the 4k 60fps Gemini Man and loved it! Smooth pans, no judder or stutter! At no time did the 60fps take me out of the film!

Wish all films were shot this way!

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post #28970 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
but I really don't think it has anything at all to do with what we're used to. We watch 60 fps content on TV regularly, so we're very much used to viewing it in general.
Are you saying that there's no acting on TV, that it's real and not fake? And I'm not talking about broadcasts specifically labeled as fiction. I'm with Alonzo Harris on this one.


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This is what us old farts are used to. The younger people are not, so 60fps is more normal to them.
Video games played a big part on accepting higher frame rates, but not everything works for HFR. The way HFR is implemented is also an issue, besides the general poor quality of what has been released so far.

I don't know what age group morphinapg is, but I don't have a problem with 60/120fps cutscenes, quite the opposite. And am very enthusiastic about certain type of content interpolated, like animation.



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post #28971 of 29156 Old 01-14-2020, 11:07 PM
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This is in the hands of the artist/creator. 24 vs 60fps, film vs digital, 3D vs 2D...

It’s good to have opinions and preferences but we are the audience, not the artist/creator.

Either consider watching the film or don’t. No one is forcing anyone to watch a film based on how it was intended.. it’s the decision and intent of the film maker.
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Might as well keep the 60fps talk going. Just watched the 4K disc of Gemini Man in the aforementioned 60fps HFR. When the top menu came on, I thought I inserted a video game. Didn't look real. I was like, ok, lets start this. At first it looked like someone was filming behind the scenes as the cast acted. I was waiting for Ang to yell "cut!" or some crew member to run in and touch up Smith's makeup. The more I watched, the more I was reminded of those British shows on PBS. Lol. It did look purty tho and crystal clear, but man, not cinematic at all, at least to me. In a movie setting, it was hard to buy in. But as a behind the scenes or artsy British show, I can see its benefits. All in all I'm glad I rented.

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post #28973 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 12:08 AM
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I know people make fun of the term, but that's exactly the right word to use. 60fps does not have the "cinematic" feel. It feels too much like reality, and that's not a good thing for something that should be taking you out of reality to immerse you in another world.
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Don’t mean to interrupt the HFR talk, but The Running Man was upgraded 4K DV on ITunes.
I'm guessing it's a terrible transfer like "Dirty Dancing" and the "Beverly Hills Cop" movies? I never purchased "Red Heat" when they upgraded on iTunes for this reason as well.

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post #28975 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 04:47 AM
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I know people make fun of the term, but that's exactly the right word to use. 60fps does not have the "cinematic" feel. It feels too much like reality, and that's not a good thing for something that should be taking you out of reality to immerse you in another world.
Lol this was my very first post on the topic - now that we've made a full circle on the topic, we can move on.

Started binging on Lost in Space s2 and it looks gorgeous! Hdr and res are awesome with amazing scenery to boot. But nothing seems to be coming close to beating the Expanse PQ as of late. S4 was super sweet with so many dark cave scenes done to perfection with so much detail and killer blacks and that bright white tube for HDR lighting. Highly recommended. Cant wait for S5!
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post #28977 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 06:12 AM
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Lol this was my very first post on the topic - now that we've made a full circle on the topic, we can move on.

Started binging on Lost in Space s2 and it looks gorgeous! Hdr and res are awesome with amazing scenery to boot. But nothing seems to be coming close to beating the Expanse PQ as of late. S4 was super sweet with so many dark cave scenes done to perfection with so much detail and killer blacks and that bright white tube for HDR lighting. Highly recommended. Cant wait for S5!
I only watched a few Lost in Space S2 episodes so far but I wasn't too impressed yet. I do plan on eventually checking out The Expanse but I have a long list so idk when that will be.

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post #28978 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 07:50 AM
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Round two

Free for all.

Here's the 2nd round of digital copies that im giving out to first person who wants them.

Enjoy.
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post #28979 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 08:01 AM
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Got Dark Phoenix

Sent from my OnePlus One using Tapatalk
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Check out my video game movie edits
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post #28980 of 29156 Old 01-15-2020, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruckus View Post
Free for all.

Here's the 2nd round of digital copies that im giving out to first person who wants them.

Enjoy.
Scored Hellboy. A big thank you for sharing.
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