Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often. - Page 986 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29551 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is Midway worth owning? Impressions seem to be thats it’s reference quality PQ and audio, correct? I just purchased a SB-1000 and I want to give it a nice work out. Baby Driver and Ford vs Ferrari sure sounded nice!

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I purchased Midway 4k HDR disk but only because I got a really good deal on it. I haven't watched it. My brother told me Fork vs. Ferrari was only worth a one-time watch. What do you think?

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post #29552 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is Midway worth owning? Impressions seem to be thats it’s reference quality PQ and audio, correct? I just purchased a SB-1000 and I want to give it a nice work out. Baby Driver and Ford vs Ferrari sure sounded nice!


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I saw it in the theater won’t be buying it or renting it . Good special effects poor acting and character development imo .


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post #29553 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I purchased Midway 4k HDR disk but only because I got a really good deal on it. I haven't watched it. My brother told me Fork vs. Ferrari was only worth a one-time watch. What do you think?


I really like James Mangold’s films. I thought FvsF was great but your mileage may vary. James Mangold is rumored to be in talks to direct Indy 5. He’s also going to direct an episode of the Mandalorian.


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post #29554 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheddarhead View Post
Even the 8K Association says that an 8K disk format is unlikely, https://www.homecinemachoice.com/con...8k-association.



With 2K intermediates common for 4K releases and 4K about the best you can scan in analog media, read film, it's going to be a long time before that 4K UHD disk will be replaced by anything remotely comparable.



Streaming is a no go for a significant portion of the population what with limited bandwidth and bandwidth caps, many of us live where getting a 10/1 DSL connection is the best we can do, then that 10/1 connection goes to **** in the evening because everyone using the same CO all try to stream at the same time.
Hmmm... 5G mobile networks are already here (plus new phones are recording videos in 8k) so what do you think? Streaming of 8k HDR material is actually more possible (not to say probably) to happen than physical media Video/Audio gear manufacturers wouldn't care, they just want to sell you "bigger/faster/better" every year anyways. How many potential $$$ is out there in mobile industry alone and how many hard core collectors is out there? You do know what makes the world go around do you?
Trust me I went down that lane many times before... yeah you feel "special" with your collection and it's nice to have a whole fancy package + booklet and everything but c'mon, how many times you actually take that booklet in your hand and read it? On the other hand I can press a button on my remote and get an "instant fix" in like 5 seconds. Mark my words, streaming is future and nothing will stop it same goes to high end gaming... In couple of years we will play some "stadia x" in 8k 120hz+ without tweaking drivers, buying 1k $ gpu's, worrying about compatible cables, etc... It's just inevitable. Btw i'm not dissing collectors or anything just giving my personal opinion on particular subjects, that's it that's all.
P.s. Me personally I would always like to have "Planet earth/Baraka/Samsara" (+ fav movies ofc) grade material on physical media but as times goes by it will make no sense even with highest end gear owners.

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post #29555 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is Midway worth owning? Impressions seem to be thats it’s reference quality PQ and audio, correct? I just purchased a SB-1000 and I want to give it a nice work out. Baby Driver and Ford vs Ferrari sure sounded nice!


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Depends on why you’d want to own it. Opinions will differ on the quality of the movie, but it does have very good PQ (although FX shots I found in some cases “meh”) and the audio is quite good in places. If you want to give your sub a workout you may want to head over to the Sub forum and get one or more of their “demo” discs.
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post #29556 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
If all you’ve used them in is a disc player then you don’t know how bad they are. A disc player will tolerate quite a bit of errors (pun intended).

I’ve been ripping by DVD and BD collection onto my Plex and quite a few took a bit of effort to get a clean copy. One BD, which I only watched once, could not be ripped.
An inability to rip a disc could have nothing to do with disc rot. The question is if the same disc plays in a player.
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post #29557 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 11:43 AM
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An inability to rip a disc could have nothing to do with disc rot. The question is if the same disc plays in a player.
You completely missed my point. A player will silently skip bad sectors and you'll get a minor audio and/or video glitch. Ripping will reveal all the bad sectors and is a good indicator the disc may be going bad.

That one BD I couldn't rip eventual couldn't be played in a player either.
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post #29558 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheddarhead View Post
Even the 8K Association says that an 8K disk format is unlikely, https://www.homecinemachoice.com/con...8k-association.



With 2K intermediates common for 4K releases and 4K about the best you can scan in analog media, read film, it's going to be a long time before that 4K UHD disk will be replaced by anything remotely comparable.



Streaming is a no go for a significant portion of the population what with limited bandwidth and bandwidth caps, many of us live where getting a 10/1 DSL connection is the best we can do, then that 10/1 connection goes to **** in the evening because everyone using the same CO all try to stream at the same time.
8K is totally useless outside of VR and maybe IMAX. Areas where the screen is either much larger or much closer than is typically comfortable. At comfortable viewing distances, people aren't even going to be able to see the full detail of a 4K image. 8K would be totally useless in most situations. And of course that doesn't even take into consideration the DI problem.

The main benefit of 4K wasn't the resolution, it was the HDR. We should focus on improving that. Displays with better dynamic range should be the focus, not better resolution. We already have enough resolution for 99.999% of situations.

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post #29559 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
8K is totally useless outside of VR and maybe IMAX. Areas where the screen is either much larger or much closer than is typically comfortable. At comfortable viewing distances, people aren't even going to be able to see the full detail of a 4K image. 8K would be totally useless in most situations. And of course that doesn't even take into consideration the DI problem.

The main benefit of 4K wasn't the resolution, it was the HDR. We should focus on improving that. Displays with better dynamic range should be the focus, not better resolution. We already have enough resolution for 99.999% of situations.

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4K and 8K both benefit from reduced compression.
For example, the super bowl was broadcast in 4K. I recorded it on the TiVo Bolt+ and played it on my LG C9 (4K) it was a huge improvement.
Also, a the 4K source was a huge improvement when played on my Kuro 600M at 1080p.
The effective resolution represented by reducing compression will likely been a benefit.

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post #29560 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Is Midway worth owning? Impressions seem to be thats it’️s reference quality PQ and audio, correct? I just purchased a SB-1000 and I want to give it a nice work out. Baby Driver and Ford vs Ferrari sure sounded nice!


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Saw a first few minutes of midway and it is in no way reference PQ, audio is far better. Then again many ppl think FvF is reference quality and I thought it was just sharp looking at times with no HDR and great audio of course. If you wanna kill ur sb1000, just play first 60 seconds of Edge of Tomorrow hehe

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post #29561 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
8K is totally useless outside of VR and maybe IMAX. Areas where the screen is either much larger or much closer than is typically comfortable. At comfortable viewing distances, people aren't even going to be able to see the full detail of a 4K image. 8K would be totally useless in most situations. And of course that doesn't even take into consideration the DI problem.

The main benefit of 4K wasn't the resolution, it was the HDR. We should focus on improving that. Displays with better dynamic range should be the focus, not better resolution. We already have enough resolution for 99.999% of situations.

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4K and 8K both benefit from reduced compression.
For example, the super bowl was broadcast in 4K. I recorded it on the TiVo Bolt+ and played it on my LG C9 (4K) it was a huge improvement.
Also, a the 4K source was a huge improvement when played on my Kuro 600M at 1080p.
The effective resolution represented by reducing compression will likely been a benefit.

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The Super Bowl was broadcast in 1080p HDR and upscaled to 4K.
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post #29562 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
4K and 8K both benefit from reduced compression.

For example, the super bowl was broadcast in 4K. I recorded it on the TiVo Bolt+ and played it on my LG C9 (4K) it was a huge improvement.

Also, a the 4K source was a huge improvement when played on my Kuro 600M at 1080p.

The effective resolution represented by reducing compression will likely been a benefit.



- Rich
You can reduce compression without needing to increase resolution.

4K at 4:4:4 with higher bitrates would be a much better direction to go.

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post #29563 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 01:59 PM
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Once upon a time, 1080 people said 4K was a waste - now it's standard, even for low end. 8K will go the same way. Due for my next improvement 2022/23, so will see what we will see at that time. Will something replace HDR by then?

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Once upon a time, 1080 people said 4K was a waste - now it's standard, even for low end. 8K will go the same way.
No it won't because the maths are completely different. 8K in the home is a complete waste, as has been covered before.

As for HDR, it has been specced for the displays of the future, not for now. It will be many years before we have 12bit panels covering the whole of rec.2020 and doing 10,000 nits with no tone-mapping required.

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post #29565 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 02:29 PM
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post #29566 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 02:34 PM
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Once upon a time, 1080 people said 4K was a waste - now it's standard, even for low end. 8K will go the same way. Due for my next improvement 2022/23, so will see what we will see at that time. Will something replace HDR by then?
The arguments at the time were valid, from a certain perspective. Barely anybody sees the full detail of 4K, based on distance/size of their screen. At the time, it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to upgrade resolution when you're only going to get a partial benefit at best. But a partial benefit is still some benefit.

8K doesn't even have that argument. Basically nobody would have any benefit whatsoever outside of VR and maybe IMAX like I said, where the screens are so close or so big that they extend beyond your field of view basically.
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post #29567 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 02:47 PM
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post #29568 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
The arguments at the time were valid, from a certain perspective. Barely anybody sees the full detail of 4K, based on distance/size of their screen. At the time, it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to upgrade resolution when you're only going to get a partial benefit at best. But a partial benefit is still some benefit.



8K doesn't even have that argument. Basically nobody would have any benefit whatsoever outside of VR and maybe IMAX like I said, where the screens are so close or so big that they extend beyond your field of view basically.


You don’t need to see the “full detail” to enjoy the improved resolution. Just like you don’t need to go 150 mph in a Ferrari to enjoy the car. It’s just better and that’s good.


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post #29569 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
You can reduce compression without needing to increase resolution.

4K at 4:4:4 with higher bitrates would be a much better direction to go.

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I cannot because I am not the broadcaster or streamer.
However, when the broadcaster or streamer has to deliver 4K over 2K, the increase in effective resolution is vast.
This is true for 4K or 2K and likely will hold for 8K if that becomes a thing, even on a 4K display.

I kept the superbowl recording because it is an excellent demonstration of this effect.

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post #29570 of 30467 Old 03-01-2020, 04:43 PM
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You don’t need to see the “full detail” to enjoy the improved resolution. Just like you don’t need to go 150 mph in a Ferrari to enjoy the car. It’s just better and that’s good.


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Exactly and that was my point. With 2K to 4K, we had that partial improvement. With 4K to 8K, we don't even have that.

Also, HDR solidified the benefit of 4K. Before HDR happened, 4K didn't look like it was going anywhere.
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I cannot because I am not the broadcaster or streamer.
However, when the broadcaster or streamer has to deliver 4K over 2K, the increase in effective resolution is vast.
This is true for 4K or 2K and likely will hold for 8K if that becomes a thing, even on a 4K display.

I kept the superbowl recording because it is an excellent demonstration of this effect.

- Rich
Those broadcasters would get all of that benefit, and more bang for their buck if they just broadcast at 4K with a higher bitrate. I'm not even confident higher subsampling would make a difference at 4K as our eyes are less sensitive to color and therefore are unlikely to see a benefit there either without the massive screens or super close distance I mentioning about for 8K.

If you increase resolution, it's a waste of that bitrate. You get much more effective compression by using a 4K source.

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post #29571 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 05:35 AM
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I agree will a lot of you on here about 8K not being worth it at home. However I would buy an 8K TV only if it was a great TV all around!
The new Sony 8Ks have incredible PQ and you get that high impact brightness you need for Correctly rendered HDR!
They just have to come down in price.
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post #29572 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 07:15 AM
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It will be many years before we have 12bit panels covering the whole of rec.2020 and doing 10,000 nits with no tone-mapping required.
This. I'd rather have more of this than 8K. But it's 8K that has marketing appeal.
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post #29573 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 12:37 PM
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No it won't because the maths are completely different. 8K in the home is a complete waste, as has been covered before.

As for HDR, it has been specced for the displays of the future, not for now. It will be many years before we have 12bit panels covering the whole of rec.2020 and doing 10,000 nits with no tone-mapping required.
I have to ask if anybody is actually going to want 10,000 nits... Even the measly 800 nits I have can be blindingly bright especially if im watching in a dark environment.

I'm more interested in improving motion resolution at this point which the higher nit value will definitely help if we are going to be using black frame insertion since it comes at a heavy brightness penalty.
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post #29574 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 12:45 PM
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Saw a first few minutes of midway and it is in no way reference PQ, audio is far better. Then again many ppl think FvF is reference quality and I thought it was just sharp looking at times with no HDR and great audio of course. If you wanna kill ur sb1000, just play first 60 seconds of Edge of Tomorrow hehe


True @b0rnarian, cranked up EOT would smoke that sb1000
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post #29575 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 02:30 PM
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I have to ask if anybody is actually going to want 10,000 nits... Even the measly 800 nits I have can be blindingly bright especially if im watching in a dark environment.



I'm more interested in improving motion resolution at this point which the higher nit value will definitely help if we are going to be using black frame insertion since it comes at a heavy brightness penalty.
800 nits is never "blindingly bright", and neither is 10,000

I want as much dynamic range as possible. Ideally that's at least 4000 nits or you're missing out on a good chunk of the picture, but I'd absolutely love to be able to watch Fury Road at the 10k nits it was designed to be seen at.

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post #29576 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 02:51 PM
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Master List of currently available 4k HDR titles, will be updated often.

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Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
800 nits is never "blindingly bright", and neither is 10,000

I want as much dynamic range as possible. Ideally that's at least 4000 nits or you're missing out on a good chunk of the picture, but I'd absolutely love to be able to watch Fury Road at the 10k nits it was designed to be seen at.

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I was watching altered carbon last night with the lights off and there was a scene that looked like it maxed out the peak brightness of my tv in maybe a 10 % window and yeah it was uncomfortable to me. I can only imagine what 10,000 nits would be like.
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post #29577 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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I was watching altered carbon last night with the lights off and there was a scene that looked like it maxed out the peak brightness of my tv in maybe a 10 % window and yeah it was uncomfortable to me. I can only imagine what 10,000 nits would be like.
What higher nits primarily change would mostly be color volume. 800 nits crushes colors in those higher nits. The actual contrast between a bright highlight and dark shadow probably wouldn't feel a LOT different from what you saw there. I watched Altered Carbon in the dark as well, and while my TV is 700 nits, there was absolutely bright highlights and I thought they looked incredible, not "uncomfortable". That's what HDR is all about. You see way brighter in regular everyday life, even when factoring in the the dark room, such as neon lights when you're out at night, or car headlights. The intensity of those bright highlights is an important part of recreating the real world experience. Bright things... should look bright, just like loud explosions or gunfire should be loud in a good sound system.
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post #29578 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
What higher nits primarily change would mostly be color volume. 800 nits crushes colors in those higher nits. The actual contrast between a bright highlight and dark shadow probably wouldn't feel a LOT different from what you saw there. I watched Altered Carbon in the dark as well, and while my TV is 700 nits, there was absolutely bright highlights and I thought they looked incredible, not "uncomfortable". That's what HDR is all about. You see way brighter in regular everyday life, even when factoring in the the dark room, such as neon lights when you're out at night, or car headlights. The intensity of those bright highlights is an important part of recreating the real world experience. Bright things... should look bright, just like loud explosions or gunfire should be loud in a good sound system.
Most of the highlights have looked great, but this one just blasted me. 31:03 in episode 4 when shes standing by a window.
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post #29579 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 03:29 PM
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Most of the highlights have looked great, but this one just blasted me. 31:03 in episode 4 when shes standing by a window.
Is this season 1? I'm planning on starting that at some point.

In general content will still be mastered with normal whites at 100 nits (although there seem to be moves afoot to change this), and it's only highlights that will be bright. In some cases there could be artistic reasons for minor "discomfort", if that is what it was; such as making the viewer squint if a character squints etc. But there will be guidelines on what you're "allowed" to do, just like for 3D there were guidelines on how often to cut between different angles (otherwise with too many fast cuts, you gave the viewer headaches and eyestrain). Creators are still in the early days of learning how best to use HDR, remember
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post #29580 of 30467 Old 03-02-2020, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
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Is this season 1? I'm planning on starting that at some point.

In general content will still be mastered with normal whites at 100 nits (although there seem to be moves afoot to change this), and it's only highlights that will be bright. In some cases there could be artistic reasons for minor "discomfort", if that is what it was; such as making the viewer squint if a character squints etc. But there will be guidelines on what you're "allowed" to do, just like for 3D there were guidelines on how often to cut between different angles (otherwise with too many fast cuts, you gave the viewer headaches and eyestrain). Creators are still in the early days of learning how best to use HDR, remember
No this is for season 2. It's mostly been awesome, but this particular scene was uncomfortably bright white coming out of the window.
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