Determining Display-Panel Bit Depth - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 342Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #331 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 10:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,222
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3928 Post(s)
Liked: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by panelexpertuhd View Post
It was never wriitem incorrectly but it was read incorrectly. The HU sets are ALL 8 bit sets. The Amazon HDR app was updated on a player not a TV. Amazon nor Netflix is going to add HDR to a non HDR TV. You're more than welcome to watch UHD in rec 709 on an 8 bit display all you want.

If you want HDR buy an HDR capable display. Not a single source in the AV industry has EVER called the HU sets HDR displays. The processing is limited to the panels capabilities and that panel is the same one used in Samsung LCD's from 2012!
Lmao whatever man First 4k Tv was 2013 and Hu panels are not the same panels found in F9000 but is same date and serial number as Js panels. I have done research on all those panels for years. I do not care that your a so called expert . I provided a link from Mgo/Fandango that has exclusive contract with Samsung and Mgo and says HDR is active without any type of hack. You want to ignore that? The simple fact that you deny this is telling. The tv's are not playing in rec 709 there is a easy way toggle them 709 or Dci/P3. You are expert you should know this. Now your saying I can't tell the expanded colour space from Rec 709? There is enough HDR sets out there now to compare. I am fortunate enough to access to lots of sets for testing. Some have had them side by side with HDR playing stating they both look the same .

Now let's sets aside some stuff and play devil's advocate . The sek-3500 has exact same processing as Js9500 as the use same OCB. The OCB has 10 bit processing and SUHD re mastering engine. Now Stacy Spears has stated that a 8 bit panel with great dithering will look like 10 bits so do Rtings . Samsung said Js offered 11% more colour over HU9000 Js measured 95% of DCI/P3 that would still make Hu sets have expanded colour over Rec 709. You're an expert so you should know that Rec 709 is 75% of DCI/P3. But once again you come with no evidence to counteract what I am saying. Even if the panel was 8 bits it could dither to 10 bits and it has more colour gamut than Rec 709.

You say all this yet only one panel was changed, You said makes a difference is panel is A or B yet say nothing when reported B. Your conduct is not becoming of any expert and you have provided zero evidence.

My set up
LG 65B7 | Samsung KS8000 |Sony 55XBR 930D |Samsung 55Q7 Samsung 60F8500 |LG Oled 55C8
LG Oled 65C8 |Samsung 65 Q9FNSamsung 55 Q8FN | Sony 65 900F |Samsung 65 NU8000
Onkyo TX-NR545 + Dolby Atmos Speakers |Xbox One X |Ps4 Pro |PS VR |Oculus Rift
AMD Ryzen 1700 + Vega 64 + Mining Rigs Samsung Galaxy S8

Last edited by player002; 05-03-2016 at 11:12 PM.
player002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,222
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3928 Post(s)
Liked: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by panelexpertuhd View Post
Silence? I've got a job that requires me to travel internationally and it doesn't matter what is told to you. You refuse to accept the truth. Your 8700 does 74% of P3. Any TV (modern) will accept a 10 bit signal but you don't have a 10 bit display. They're being sold and you know where to buy one. If you want a 10 bit display for your set than purchase one.
Wow now we are going to make up numbers? First Samung in there own press release said 11% increase in colors. The Js9500 has been measured @95% of DCI P3 putting Hu around 84%. Now the Hu panels are better than the JU panels from what I have seen especially with SEK 3500 without colour is better on JU. Ju is said by u as 8 bit panel and for arguments sake same panel as previous Hu no QD panels. Ju measured 85% of DCI so wrong again go check Rtings and other sites that actually took measurements of Tv's and tested them. Quantum dots are not a requirement for DCI-P3 as the vizio has phosphor coated LEDs as do the Panasonic's .They are tuned to get to the colour space as they have good colour filters. The Vizio P has 91% of DCI-P3 yet has no problem doing Dolby HDR and soon Via update HDR10. Rec 2020 is the real colour space we all need to hit and no tv is close yet Js9500 hits 76% the JU hits 65%. Like I stated Roughly 10% difference in colour but still outside Rec709 all test results can be found @ rtings . The rated JU6400 as 10 bit with a perfect 10 score saying the 10 bit gradient was smoother than Js9500 http://ca.rtings.com/

My set up
LG 65B7 | Samsung KS8000 |Sony 55XBR 930D |Samsung 55Q7 Samsung 60F8500 |LG Oled 55C8
LG Oled 65C8 |Samsung 65 Q9FNSamsung 55 Q8FN | Sony 65 900F |Samsung 65 NU8000
Onkyo TX-NR545 + Dolby Atmos Speakers |Xbox One X |Ps4 Pro |PS VR |Oculus Rift
AMD Ryzen 1700 + Vega 64 + Mining Rigs Samsung Galaxy S8
player002 is offline  
post #333 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,222
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3928 Post(s)
Liked: 2934
So uninformed are you Samsung even enabled HDR on ur supposed 8 bit JU tv's in 2015

HDMI 2.0a for all 2015 UHD TVs
Some TVs are already capable of streaming 4K HDR content from Amazon Prime Video but if you want to connect an external player such as one of the new Ultra HD Blu-ray players you need to connect it through an HDMI 2.0a port. The “a” in HDMI was announced in April 2015 and is required for HDR support.

- “Samsung will issue a firmware update that will enable its 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs to display a broader library of High Dynamic Range (HDR) content now from external devices. HDR delivers a much higher level of contrast between light and dark to produce an image that is more realistic and closer to what the content creator imagined. The firmware update is available now at no additional cost to owners of 2015 Samsung SUHD and UHD TV’s.” wrote Samsung
This also means that Samsung’s “regular” Ultra HD TVs will be capable of reading HDR content. Sony also announced at IFA that it will add HDR support to its entire 2015 Ultra HD TV line-up.

- “Samsung provides cutting-edge technology that our consumers expect from an industry leader, and our SUHD TV’s are our best ever” said John Ryu, vice president of the visual display business at Samsung Electronics.
- “While our 2015 SUHD and UHD TV lines are already capable of delivering HDR capability from internal sources such as streaming services, this firmware update will enlarge the spectrum of available HDR content for our customers.”

HDMI 2.0a will be supported by all 2015 SUHD and UHD TVs via a firmware update, says Samsung. You can use your existing HDMI cables.
Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...QlRQmVqXwTq.99

So even the lowly Ju series can do HDR but the HU with the processing of Js9500 via OCB which was new HW Can't MMMMkay buddy
korsjs likes this.

My set up
LG 65B7 | Samsung KS8000 |Sony 55XBR 930D |Samsung 55Q7 Samsung 60F8500 |LG Oled 55C8
LG Oled 65C8 |Samsung 65 Q9FNSamsung 55 Q8FN | Sony 65 900F |Samsung 65 NU8000
Onkyo TX-NR545 + Dolby Atmos Speakers |Xbox One X |Ps4 Pro |PS VR |Oculus Rift
AMD Ryzen 1700 + Vega 64 + Mining Rigs Samsung Galaxy S8
player002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #334 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
korsjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by player002 View Post
Wow now we are going to make up numbers? First Samung in there own press release said 11% increase in colors. The Js9500 has been measured @95% of DCI P3 putting Hu around 84%. Now the Hu panels are better than the JU panels from what I have seen especially with SEK 3500 without colour is better on JU. Ju is said by u as 8 bit panel and for arguments sake same panel as previous Hu no QD panels. Ju measured 85% of DCI so wrong again go check Rtings and other sites that actually took measurements of Tv's and tested them. Quantum dots are not a requirement for DCI-P3 as the vizio has phosphor coated LEDs as do the Panasonic's .They are tuned to get to the colour space as they have good colour filters. The Vizio P has 91% of DCI-P3 yet has no problem doing Dolby HDR and soon Via update HDR10. Rec 2020 is the real colour space we all need to hit and no tv is close yet Js9500 hits 76% the JU hits 65%. Like I stated Roughly 10% difference in colour but still outside Rec709 all test results can be found @ rtings . The rated JU6400 as 10 bit with a perfect 10 score saying the 10 bit gradient was smoother than Js9500 http://ca.rtings.com/
i wouldn't bother with him. He is just trolling again. I wish AVS would remove his posts and ban him.
player002 and shark91962 like this.

Family Room
LG OLED65C6P, Denon AVRX2400H, Oppo 203, XBOX One S

Bedroom
TCL 55R615, Samsung UBD-K8500
korsjs is offline  
post #335 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:37 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2826
panelexpertuhd I saw the comparisons HU and JS, ray0414 he owned both the HU9000 and JS9500 and he did some comparisons.

ray0414 could you help out here ,how the JS HDR picture compares to the HU?
korsjs likes this.
losservatore is offline  
post #336 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
korsjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
panelexpertuhd I saw the comparisons HU and JS, ray0414 he owned both the HU9000 and JS9500 and he did some comparisons.

ray0414 could you help out here ,how the JS HDR picture compares to the HU?
Like I said, he is trolling. While he is off on his international travels I have been exploring the universe in my space machine built with spare HU sets and my flux capacitor.
RLBURNSIDE and player002 like this.

Family Room
LG OLED65C6P, Denon AVRX2400H, Oppo 203, XBOX One S

Bedroom
TCL 55R615, Samsung UBD-K8500
korsjs is offline  
post #337 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
player002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,222
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3928 Post(s)
Liked: 2934
Quote:
Originally Posted by korsjs View Post
Like I said, he is trolling. While he is off on his international travels I have been exploring the universe in my space machine built with spare HU sets and my flux capacitor.
lol I have an extra SEK-3500u that u can use as a Warp drive
korsjs likes this.

My set up
LG 65B7 | Samsung KS8000 |Sony 55XBR 930D |Samsung 55Q7 Samsung 60F8500 |LG Oled 55C8
LG Oled 65C8 |Samsung 65 Q9FNSamsung 55 Q8FN | Sony 65 900F |Samsung 65 NU8000
Onkyo TX-NR545 + Dolby Atmos Speakers |Xbox One X |Ps4 Pro |PS VR |Oculus Rift
AMD Ryzen 1700 + Vega 64 + Mining Rigs Samsung Galaxy S8
player002 is offline  
post #338 of 359 Old 05-03-2016, 11:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2826
I don't think that the HU owners are going or need to run and buy the JS or KS ,if that what you are suggesting panel expert.


They can keep the HU till the dust settle.
player002 likes this.

Last edited by losservatore; 05-04-2016 at 12:19 AM.
losservatore is offline  
post #339 of 359 Old 05-04-2016, 01:27 AM
Lionheart of AVS
 
King Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Greenstone, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1797 Post(s)
Liked: 4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by panelexpertuhd View Post
I've got a job that requires me to travel internationally...

I really don't understand why your "job" is such a secret/mystery???

Why can't you just tell us what it is you do? Do you work for Samsung?

Or do you work for the CIA or something?

It would help greatly if we knew more about your "credentials".

Thanks in advance,

Richard
losservatore likes this.
King Richard is offline  
post #340 of 359 Old 05-04-2016, 02:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
korsjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
I really don't understand why your "job" is such a secret/mystery???

Why can't you just tell us what it is you do? Do you work for Samsung?

Or do you work for the CIA or something?

It would help greatly if we knew more about your "credentials".

Thanks in advance,

Richard
Austin Powers - International Man of Mystery - Secret Panel Police???

Family Room
LG OLED65C6P, Denon AVRX2400H, Oppo 203, XBOX One S

Bedroom
TCL 55R615, Samsung UBD-K8500
korsjs is offline  
post #341 of 359 Old 05-05-2016, 04:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Musician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked: 5209
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
I really don't understand why your "job" is such a secret/mystery???

Why can't you just tell us what it is you do? Do you work for Samsung?

Or do you work for the CIA or something?

It would help greatly if we knew more about your "credentials".

Thanks in advance,

Richard
Maybe he is the ex-professional tennis player who briefly used to post on AVS Forum who had a real bee in his bonnet and despised any mention that the HU + SEK could do HDR. Chalked it all up to guys doing the JS hack.

Got banned just a few days before the secret letter was revealed on the HDR-Capable Displays thread.

Just saying.

Samsung UN78HU9000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UN40HU7000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray Player; Apple TV 4K
Arris VIP5662W UHD Whole Home DVR; Chromecast Ultra
Marantz SR7005 Receiver; Magnepan Speakers; Martin Logan Subwoofer
Musician is offline  
post #342 of 359 Old 05-05-2016, 04:52 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
p5browne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 10,168
Mentioned: 238 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3991 Post(s)
Liked: 3166
HU9000 + SEK-3500U + HDR. Again!

Question re HDR:

If the HU9000 + SEK-3500U `CAN'T' get HDR, then why is it under the SM Shop Option, the MetaData is Turned ON by Default?

Haven't seen this brought up before.

UN65KS9800 - Mine
UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
UN55NU8000 X 2 - my 2 kids families (or should I say adults?)

Last edited by p5browne; 05-07-2016 at 03:36 PM.
p5browne is offline  
post #343 of 359 Old 05-07-2016, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Woobieizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,627
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Question re HDR:

If the HU9000 + SEK-3500U CAN'T get HDR, then why is it under the SM Shop Option is MetaData Turned On by Default?

Haven't seen this brought up before.

d1jwpcr0q4pcq0.cloudfront.net

http://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/ Amazon CloudFront is a content delivery network from AWS. The SmartTV is regularly downloading small amounts of data from a distribution on CloudFront. The transaction is encrypted so the contents were not analyzed, but it would be logical to assume that this is a method the SmartTV uses to keep its application caches (latest videos, available apps, etc.) fresh.
- See more at: https://labs.opendns.com/2015/06/02/....yYk9deUg.dpuf
Woobieizer is offline  
post #344 of 359 Old 05-11-2016, 07:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Musician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked: 5209
So can't have it both ways...

Here is a post on another thread where the self-proclaimed panel expert says the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by panelexpertuhd View Post
Ray has the 9500 and you don't. The 9500 handles HDR better than thr 9000. The engineers at Samung have certain features to enable HDR on the sets yet you disable that feature.
Post 5110: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43935650

Exactly!

As a matter of fact the HU + SEK shares the exact same firmware and has access to the exact same "features" that can be enabled/disabled in our TV settings too!

Not to mentions @Scott Wilkinson 's post where he said...

Quote:
Okay, here's what I've learned from Samsung about the HU9000 (2014) and F9000 (2013): These sets, and any others that can and have been updated with the SEK-3500 One Connect Box, can accept and process an HDR10 signal...
Without regurgitating what has already been discussed at length on this and the HDR-Capable Displays thread most telling is the side-by-side comparisons by @galonzo who actually owns both an HU9000 + SEK and a JS9500 which shows that the SEK-3500 certainly does add HDR processing -- just like Samsung says!!!
korsjs, galonzo, player002 and 2 others like this.

Samsung UN78HU9000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UN40HU7000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray Player; Apple TV 4K
Arris VIP5662W UHD Whole Home DVR; Chromecast Ultra
Marantz SR7005 Receiver; Magnepan Speakers; Martin Logan Subwoofer
Musician is offline  
post #345 of 359 Old 05-11-2016, 08:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Musician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked: 5209
...and right below that post, how about this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by panelexpertuhd View Post
Ray uses the exact settings Samsung recommends but one.
Post 5111: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43935698

In the entire time I have been reading the posts on AVS and visiting Samsung's website and reading reviews posted across the web, I have yet to see Samsung post recommended settings for their TVs.


Hard enough getting Samsung's own "product expert" to answer a question accurately sometimes.
korsjs, galonzo, player002 and 1 others like this.

Samsung UN78HU9000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UN40HU7000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray Player; Apple TV 4K
Arris VIP5662W UHD Whole Home DVR; Chromecast Ultra
Marantz SR7005 Receiver; Magnepan Speakers; Martin Logan Subwoofer

Last edited by Musician; 05-11-2016 at 08:07 AM.
Musician is offline  
post #346 of 359 Old 05-11-2016, 11:46 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
p5browne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 10,168
Mentioned: 238 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3991 Post(s)
Liked: 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
...and right below that post, how about this one...



Post 5111: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43935698

In the entire time I have been reading the posts on AVS and visiting Samsung's website and reading reviews posted across the web, I have yet to see Samsung post recommended settings for their TVs.


Hard enough getting Samsung's own "product expert" to answer a question accurately sometimes.
I wonder if he means the out of the box settings from Samsung. And, as we all know, 1000 hours of usage in, those settings are moot!

UN65KS9800 - Mine
UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
UN55NU8000 X 2 - my 2 kids families (or should I say adults?)
p5browne is offline  
post #347 of 359 Old 05-11-2016, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Musician's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2635 Post(s)
Liked: 5209
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
I wonder if he means the out of the box settings from Samsung. And, as we all know, 1000 hours of usage in, those settings are moot!
If that was the case all those posts asking for recommended settings would be non-existant. Further to that , as we all know, at least a few of the out the box settings don't apply to HDR (e.g. Color Space and HDMI UHD Color) when hooking up the UBD-K8500.

Samsung UN78HU9000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UN40HU7000 & SEK-3500U/ZA - Firmware 1540.3
Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Blu-ray Player; Apple TV 4K
Arris VIP5662W UHD Whole Home DVR; Chromecast Ultra
Marantz SR7005 Receiver; Magnepan Speakers; Martin Logan Subwoofer
Musician is offline  
post #348 of 359 Old 05-11-2016, 02:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
korsjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
...and right below that post, how about this one...



Post 5111: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43935698

In the entire time I have been reading the posts on AVS and visiting Samsung's website and reading reviews posted across the web, I have yet to see Samsung post recommended settings for their TVs.


Hard enough getting Samsung's own "product expert" to answer a question accurately sometimes.
i am surprised AVS has not banned the so called panel expert and deleted his posts. has that guy or girl??? every gotten around to backing any of his claims? classic troll. i might have to take a page out of @ahro and put him on ignore.

Family Room
LG OLED65C6P, Denon AVRX2400H, Oppo 203, XBOX One S

Bedroom
TCL 55R615, Samsung UBD-K8500
korsjs is offline  
post #349 of 359 Old 07-01-2016, 07:44 AM
Member
 
TVinLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 2
I am an owner of a Sony 940C and I still could return this TV. I have one primary concern which is color banding (i.e. bands of color displayed instead of smooth transitions in areas like the sky that should have subtle gradients of color). This can be caused by inadequate color bit depth in the TV or it can be due to deficiencies in the source material being sent to the TV. There is an excellent tutorial on gradients and color bit depth at:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/movies/hdr/gradient

They show examples of some TVs that do well and some that do poorly. This appears to be the only website that tests TVs to see how well they can display color gradients. Unfortunately, they have not tested either the 940C or the 940D.

It sounds like there is no consensus as to how many native bits the panels in the Sony 940C and 940D have. Some say the 940C is 8 bits native + 2bits FRC. Some say just 10 bits. I've heard the same comments for the 940D. A couple days ago I had a conversation with the owner of a chain of stores in Southern California who claims he periodically gets to speak to actual Sony engineers. He claims they told him that the 940C is 10 bits and the 940D is 12 bits (!). I have no idea if this is correct. He didn't know if they might have meant 8 bits+FRC and 10 bits+FRC. On my 940C I've noticed color banding on some source material where I didn't expect to see it. For example:

1. YouTube - Sony 4K Demo "Another World" (2:46-2:49 sky in upper left corner)
2. YouTube - Sony 4K HDR Demo "Motosuko" (0:07-0:10 and 1:29-1:50 most of the sky)
3. Netflix - Marco Polo 4K HDR: Season1, Episode 6 (30:13-30:25 sky in uppermost left corner)

I would love to hear if any of you folks with a Sony 940D, or an LG E6 or G6 OLED TV can see these artifacts. I don't know if these bands are being introduced by my 940C, or if the source material is the problem. It would be especially interesting if I (we) find out that the color banding is seen on 940Cs but not 940Ds which would imply that the 940D really does have a panel with more color bit depth. Incidentally, I also see color banding on lots of HD programming on Verizon FiOS (e.g. Ray Donovan on Showtime and many others). Thanks in advance for any insights you folks can provide!

-Tom
TVinLA is offline  
post #350 of 359 Old 11-27-2016, 05:17 PM
Member
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
No products for the search: un65hu9000fxzc

Hey Bro I too have the US02 panel that has the E at the end of it and cannot find out if it is 8 or 10 bit but goin to this parts site that was posted I see where all the 8 bit panels have this p/n BN95-01379A LSF650FJ03-G, 8 Bit and all the 10 bit panels have this type of p/n's BN95-01379B AMLCD, CY-VH065FSLV2V 10 bit and the US01 has a p/n BN95-01379E AMLCD;CY-VH065FSLV5V Jus say'n that the US01 p/n is closer to the 10 bit p/n's so wunder'n if this odd panel is a 10 bit? The only US02 panel that is 10 bit has a p/n like the others, Unless someone has more proof of what they are or can make more since of this..

UN65HU9000FXZA TS01 BN95-01379A LCD Display Panel, AMLCD, CY-VH065FSLV1V, 10 Bit
UN65HU9000FXZA TS01 BN96-30713A Open Cell, LSF650FJ03-G, 8 Bit, 65.0 Inch, 16:9, UHD 120
UN65HU9000FXZA US02 BN95-01379E LCD Display Panel, AMLCD;CY-VH065FSLV5V,HU9000
UN65HU9000GXZD TS01 BN82-01962A LCD Display Panel, BN95-01379A,CY-VH065FSLV1V
UN65HU9000GXZD TS01 BN95-01379A LCD Display Panel, AMLCD, CY-VH065FSLV1V, 10 Bit
UN65HU9000GXZD TS01 BN96-30713A Open Cell, LSF650FJ03-G, 8 Bit, 65.0 Inch, 16:9, UHD 120
UN65HU9000GXZD US02 BN82-01964A LCD Display Panel, BN95-01379C,CY-VH065FSLV3V
UN65HU9000GXZD US02 BN95-01379C LCD Display Panel, AMLCD, CY-VH065FSLV3V, 10 Bit

UN65HU9000 Oct 2014 US02, SEK-3500/ZA
Samsung UBD-K8500 3D 4K Ultra
UN48H6350/iScan Mini
Samsung BD-H6500/ZA
Onkyo NR-TX636
Reaper22 is offline  
post #351 of 359 Old 11-27-2016, 05:37 PM
Member
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woobieizer View Post
BN95-01370A

I'm interested in what it tells you about the panel. I don't know??
http://www.tvserviceparts.com/Samsun...ay_Panels.html

UN65HU9000 Oct 2014 US02, SEK-3500/ZA
Samsung UBD-K8500 3D 4K Ultra
UN48H6350/iScan Mini
Samsung BD-H6500/ZA
Onkyo NR-TX636
Reaper22 is offline  
post #352 of 359 Old 11-27-2016, 07:43 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
p5browne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 10,168
Mentioned: 238 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3991 Post(s)
Liked: 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper22 View Post
Go back into the past AVS Forum HU9000

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...hread-200.html

UN65KS9800 - Mine
UN65HU9000 + SEK-3500U / UN75JU7100 / UN55HU7250 with SEK-3500U in UJS9000 Mod Mode / UN40J5200AF / HiSense 40H5507 - Wife's
UN55NU8000 X 2 - my 2 kids families (or should I say adults?)
p5browne is offline  
post #353 of 359 Old 11-27-2016, 08:43 PM
Member
 
Reaper22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
Go back into the past AVS Forum HU9000

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...hread-200.html
My eyes are get'n tired of all the research on the US02 panel or the Captain Morgan kick'n in but still not clear on weather this US02 is an 8 bit or 10 bit, Thanks for the link bruh, will read some more tomorrow...

UN65HU9000 Oct 2014 US02, SEK-3500/ZA
Samsung UBD-K8500 3D 4K Ultra
UN48H6350/iScan Mini
Samsung BD-H6500/ZA
Onkyo NR-TX636
Reaper22 is offline  
post #354 of 359 Old 11-30-2017, 10:49 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thank you for this information. I recently bought a new LG tv and was wondering what the panel depth level was. I'm a newbie when it comes to all of this new tech relating to tvs.

I have a 12 year old who is an active Xbox gamer....and would like to take advantage of the 4k option on the XBOX S....


again, thanks for all that you do. It's so frustrating thinking you bought a tv for a specific desired function, only to be mislead by the manufacturer.
Remedypaws is offline  
post #355 of 359 Old 12-27-2017, 07:05 AM
Newbie
 
sagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Can someone confirm me is Samsung 55S6AU0VK 10bit or 8bit panel.
sagor is offline  
post #356 of 359 Old 10-24-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 868
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post
This is the pixel matrix of the Vizio P series ,I'm not sure if this reveal if the panel is 10bit or 8bit + HI FRC,but I really don't care as long as it have a great PQ.

Quote from Vizio CTO Matt McRae on the Vizio P thread

(from Matt regarding P series panels and bit depth:

As you can imagine... we are now getting close to secret sauce :-) I can tell you that the panels are true 10bit (not 8bit + FRC dithering etc). And I can tell you that to reach this color fidelity we modified LED phosphors and chemistry AND spec'd custom color filters.)






enjoy watching the pixel structure.
Interesting.

I'm trying to understand a bit better how both LCDs and OLED panels are considered native gamma 2.2 instead of linear, and so far, I have two reasons for thinking so:

One, the subpixel structure itself, if there were enough domains and they were the right relative sizes to correlate with the power curve, they could simply turn each one fully on or off and be done with it. But, even for true 10-bit panels here, there seem to be at most eight subdomains, of different sizes, but that doesn't make the displays native gamma, but something else which is technically non-linear but not at all gamma.

What I'm saying is, it must then be the case that each subpixel domain, or combinations of domains, can be attenuated in an analog way, and that the final number of bits and the encoding of those bits is relative to the number of lanes, 3, 4 or 5 to 18-bit, 24-bit, or 30-bit capability, plus the response curve of either the DACs or the eletrical response to voltages, in which case the DACs are likely linear DACs (as opposed to logarithmic), and their desirable non-linearity is due to the way the liquid crystals respond to voltages.

Has anyone figured out, or leaked the actual formula for how one takes, say, a give 10-bit PQ-encoded value, and show what values are sent to the different sub-pixel domains, and then how those domains in turn control the final transmissivity of their subpixels?

I'm also curious how OLED subpixels work, is there a similar way to determine the native bit depth, like are the sub-domains there too, or are they simply controlled individually via a non-linear DAC or inherent voltage response. I highly doubt there are any real 1:1 DACs that can natively deliver 10-bits of PQ encoded data, and I'm fairly sure I've read virtually all OLEDs are gamma 2.2 native, not PQ native, so the processing involved could in theory result in visible banding. Unless the Gamma 2.2 subpixels were encoded to, say, 12-bit or 14-bit gamma 2.2, then I could see 10-bit or 12-bit PQ being shown faithfully.

It does seem to me that having differently sized sub-domains in each LCD subpixels could easily be used to increase effective bit depth, roughly following a power law due to them being different sizes, so that's pretty smart. I also wonder if FRC is typically applied to only the smaller sub-domains since they might transition faster than the larger ones, due to having less liquid crystals to rotate inside a smaller volume. So even if the smaller four sub-domains are tied together electrically, splitting them up into four identically controlled sections could maybe boost their overall performance and G2G response time. I wonder also if the G2G response time is directly related to the smaller size of the smallest domains. We know LCD panels can be overdriven but then the crystals overshoot the mark and result in some haloing or ghosting.

@Mark Rejhon
BattleAxeVR is offline  
post #357 of 359 Old 10-24-2018, 11:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cleveland,Ohio
Posts: 7,042
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2987 Post(s)
Liked: 2826
@BattleAxeVR a little more info of that panel ....75” vizio P

Panel info http://www.panelook.com/T750QVF02.0_...ter_26387.html

Last edited by losservatore; 10-24-2018 at 11:24 AM.
losservatore is offline  
post #358 of 359 Old 10-24-2018, 03:09 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 868
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked: 292
That site says this panel is 8-bit + FRC, though.

I agree that might not matter much in terms of visible banding for most current HDR10 content mastered to 4000 nits or less, as time goes on that limit will increase to 10k nits and
and that will likely make 12 bits (via Dolby Vision or HDR12 if it ever comes out) necessary, even if panels can still only do it through 10-bit native + FRC.

I'm mostly interested in VR headsets these days, and most of those are using OLED for good reason (no chance of burn-in because your head's always moving, plus low motion blur and near-instantaneous G2G response times, plus perfect blacks. I just want 10-bit HDR10 in a VR headset too, and P3 or better gamut, which seems to be nowhere). So I'm just trying to understand a bit more how these panels manage to do Gamma 2.2, at various bit depths, and whether 10-bit (real or simulated) gamma 2.2 is good enough to reproduce HDR10 in PQ encoding, which is has half of its encoded values below 1000 nits and the the other half for the 1000-10,000 range. This is far steeper a curve than Gamma 2.2 is, so I'm skeptical that without FALD that these panels are far from good enough to do banding-free HDR. People seem happy with OLED TVs though. But I still prefer 10-bit "native", whatever that means, since FRC on top of that can mean 12-bit data in the source can actually be taken advantage of by the display.

I asked John Carmack about the bit depth of the Rift, he said it's 8-bit but that they use spatial dithering, plus since it uses rolling scan to reduce persistence it might be possible to increase bit depth further that way.
losservatore likes this.
BattleAxeVR is offline  
post #359 of 359 Old 10-25-2018, 12:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mightyhuhn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,145
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1158 Post(s)
Liked: 424
did you ever thing about how you display 10 YCbCr your HDR source has as RGB that your screen needs?

bit deep is a totally misunderstood topic you don't need 10 bit to remove banding that a myths nothing else.
bit deep lower the noise floor and helps compressing the data. did you ever thing about how many errors the lossy compression does to the YCbCr image you are encoding.

this topic goes so far that rtings gives 8 bit displays that are 6 bit+FRC a "perfect score" for a display that only supports 8 bit input. and 6 bit to 8 bit is a far bigger difference as 8 bit vs 10 bit.
mightyhuhn is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

Tags
<<. , bit depth , hdr

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off