Could Dolby Vision be a firmware upgrade? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-07-2016, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Could Dolby Vision be a firmware upgrade?

In the event of Dolby Vision proliferation and Samsung and Sony not being on the boat, is it possible that Sony and Samsung would be able to upgrade their sets to include Dolby Vision?

Thanks,
Joe
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-07-2016, 08:32 AM
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NO. Requires additional hardware/chip...not to mention it's proprietary, not standards-based.
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post #3 of 14 Old 06-07-2016, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
NO. Requires additional hardware/chip...not to mention it's proprietary, not standards-based.
would HDR-10 + dyanmic metadata be a firmware upgrade and would Dolby Vision grading translate to that format? I wonder if the studios will support both?
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-07-2016, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
would HDR-10 + dyanmic metadata be a firmware upgrade and would Dolby Vision grading translate to that format? I wonder if the studios will support both?
Unknown (we don't know if HDMI 2.1 will require new silicon) and unknown (studios haven't declared anything). All we know right now is: there are no DV compatible (UHD) discs, and the streaming implementations of DV seem to also offer an HDR-10 version (much like the UHD standard requires).
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-11-2016, 03:46 PM
 
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As much of a fan of Dolby Vision that I am, I prefer open standards and would rather HDR12 be that standard for 0-10000 nits ST 2084 encoded video.

The only thing missing currently is the support for dynamic metadata which is coming in HDMI 2.1 so at that point, I see no reason why source content couldn't convert between the closed standard and the open standard before being sent over the wire. However it's probably best to just buy a Dolby Vision TV or projector from the start. HDR10 is still way better than SDR so it should be a big enough leap until the dust settles on 12-bit HDR formats.
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-10-2016, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
NO. Requires additional hardware/chip...not to mention it's proprietary, not standards-based.
No it doesn't. At all.

If you had a general purpose, programmable CPU/GPU inside your TV, you could easily accept an RGB 8-bit signal and unwrap the Dolby Vision inside, and use that instead of HDR10, using software only.

It is proprietary, but the PQ 2084 gamma curve is the exact same gamma curve that HDR10 uses, and furthermore, dynamic metadata can be computed from the source frame itself. MadVR is actually already doing this for HDR10, making it dynamic instead of static and applying a different decoding curve every single frame. It's not that hard to understand. The metadata is basically just a histogram of the brightness distribution of the frame, per color channel. It's trivial to compute this in software.

But sending Dolby Vision and receiving it requires zero special hardware, only an extra encoding and decoding software step. All software runs on hardware, so yes, it requires some cycles to do it but it's comparable in complexity to an upscaler. It doesn't require dedicated hardware, although of course dedicated hardware will always be more efficient.
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-11-2016, 12:32 AM
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I agree with the second comment

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post #8 of 14 Old 07-11-2016, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
No it doesn't. At all.

If you had a general purpose, programmable CPU/GPU inside your TV, you could easily accept an RGB 8-bit signal and unwrap the Dolby Vision inside, and use that instead of HDR10, using software only.

It is proprietary, but the PQ 2084 gamma curve is the exact same gamma curve that HDR10 uses, and furthermore, dynamic metadata can be computed from the source frame itself. MadVR is actually already doing this for HDR10, making it dynamic instead of static and applying a different decoding curve every single frame. It's not that hard to understand. The metadata is basically just a histogram of the brightness distribution of the frame, per color channel. It's trivial to compute this in software.

But sending Dolby Vision and receiving it requires zero special hardware, only an extra encoding and decoding software step. All software runs on hardware, so yes, it requires some cycles to do it but it's comparable in complexity to an upscaler. It doesn't require dedicated hardware, although of course dedicated hardware will always be more efficient.
It will never be implemented via software if what you say is true..

http://hdguru.com/dolby-vision-ultra...-mediatek-soc/
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-11-2016, 06:04 AM
 
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"It turns out that Ultra HD Blu-ray support for Dolby Vision is on the way and awaits completion of a special system on a chip (SoC) to properly handle the single.(sic)"

What I wrote was, as usual, 100% correct. I said that Dolby Vision transmission does not a) require a new HDMI interface, nor b) do sources require new encoding hardware. Ergo, in software.

One could just as easily decode Dolby Vision using a general purpose chip, entirely in software. You could even send Dolby Vision HDR signals from your old Xbox One, Ps4, or PCs equipped with HDMI 1.4 if you wanted to(provided the encryption layer was approved, but that's a legal issue, not a technical one).

SoCs are systems on a chip : they are there because it is cheaper to mass produce and more efficient too, but they are not required. For UHD Bluray players, yes, it would be too expensive to add a general purpose CPU / GPU in there just for this. But I'm 100% sure such software implementations exist (because I've seen them).

So yes, what I said is true. Sending back to the source that "this TV can decode Dolby Vision" is part of the TV's hardware for handshaking, but it works perfectly fine over HDMI 1.4. What do I know, I only spoke with Dolby Engineers directly about implementing it. The TVs, of course, have to support Dolby Vision and report that they implement it back to the sources, but you can update the firmware on the source to handle new formats. This is exactly what Xbox One and Ps4 (original flavors) will do. btw firmware == software, for the purposes of semantics.

Please Read this before you make any further comments on which versions of HDMI are necessary for Dolby Vision. Hint : if it works on HDMI 1.4, then it works on current / legacy HDMI 1.4 hardware. This is simple enough for anyone to understand, I just don't get it why anyone would still argue over it.
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-29-2016, 01:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
In the event of Dolby Vision proliferation and Samsung and Sony not being on the boat, is it possible that Sony and Samsung would be able to upgrade their sets to include Dolby Vision?

Thanks,
Joe
NO
additional hardware/chip in the tv must be !
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post #11 of 14 Old 02-25-2017, 08:34 PM
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No hardware is required according to this article.

Just a software update.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/25/...r-in-software/
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post #12 of 14 Old 02-26-2017, 02:11 AM
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No hardware is required according to this article.

Just a software update.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/25/...r-in-software/
This is more about the source devices not the receiving ones. DV has created a fully software based version of their code, so things like PS4 and XB1 could conceivably get DV, just like PCs. Some TVs and other devices will work, but that is largely still going to be dependent on hardware.

The original Forbes article had way more info:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#316cb8944664

Quote:
There are implementations that can run Dolby Vision in software, certainly in the console space but also in the TV SoC space. Specifics vary on a case-by-case basis depending on the hardware capability of the silicon in question, but we have development kits for various types of implementations, depending on the application: full hardware, hybrid of software and hardware or [and this is the crucial bit] full software.
What it sounds like they did is create an SDK of sorts, and if you can implement all the right hooks into your SOC, then it will work, but I would imagine this will be far more likely in android sets like Sony vs Samsung's Tizen simply because Google already did all the work to add DV to Android 7.0 already.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-02-2017, 11:56 AM
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If I remember correctly, my Vizio P50 didn't support Dolby Vision at release, but they released a firmware update to support it.
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-10-2017, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GRiM69 View Post
If I remember correctly, my Vizio P50 didn't support Dolby Vision at release, but they released a firmware update to support it.
should have been the opposite. Vizio P series launched with DV support, but no HDR10 support. It was patched in later.

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