Universal HDR-compliant displays - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: HDR TV shall support all HDR formats.
HDR TV shall support all HDR formats. 116 95.87%
Other (Please detail in a post) 5 4.13%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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post #211 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
Samsung also supports HLG.

Richard
I've said it before and I'll say it again here: Allegedly Samsung supports HLG in their 2017 and even 2016 sets but it seems they cannot be persuaded to admit they do. Despite repeated requests to several Samsung officials I have to this date not seen a single official statement syaing they support HLG.

I do not know why this is, just that it is like this. Perhaps they're afraid of distracting from the message of HDR10+ or otherwise causing confusion?

If you find an official statement somewhere, do let me know.
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post #212 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
1. Samsung is also supporting HLG
As I've explained many times, I'm still waiting for Samsung to admit they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
2. Oppo is also supporting HLG
I'll fix that. It needs some explanation in the footnotes as it's confusing since HLG has no use on UHD BD and they don't support OTT apps, only DLNA streaming and such.

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Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
3. Google is supporting HDR10, Dolby Vision & HLG [link omitted]
Better make that 'Android'. Chromecast and Google Play are also Google but have different HDR format support.

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Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
4. Roku is also supporting Dolby Vision
Also this I've explained to you before, Dan. Roku's platform support DV, but only in other brands' TV sets such as TCL's. That's why I've placed TCL there. I'll move Roku there when they add support for DV in their own stand-alone products.
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post #213 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoeri View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again here: Allegedly Samsung supports HLG in their 2017 and even 2016 sets but it seems they cannot be persuaded to admit they do. Despite repeated requests to several Samsung officials I have to this date not seen a single official statement syaing they support HLG.
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post #214 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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@Yoeri
https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/902232583882379264





I'm wondering if the Apple TV 4K is also compatible with HLG.

Apparently, the iPhone X is only compatible with Dolby Vision and HDR10.
https://live.theverge.com/apple-live...304.1504879765


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post #215 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 12:39 PM
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Universal HDR-compliant displays

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
@Yoeri

https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/902232583882379264











I'm wondering if the Apple TV 4K is also compatible with HLG.



Apparently, the iPhone X is only compatible with Dolby Vision and HDR10.

https://live.theverge.com/apple-live...304.1504879765







https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/specs/

Video Formats
H.264/HEVC SDR video up to 2160p, 60 fps, Main/Main 10 profile
HEVC Dolby Vision (Profile 5)/HDR10 (Main 10 profile) up to 2160p
H.264 Baseline Profile level 3.0 or lower with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
MPEG-4 video up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 fps, Simple profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
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post #216 of 537 Old 09-12-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
@Yoeri
I'm wondering if the Apple TV 4K is also compatible with HLG.
[/IMG]
Apple have a tendency to only support formats their itunes stores will publish, so I'd assume they have zero plans to use HLG in their itunes movies. I was under the impression HLG is more advantageous for broadcast tv, especially since it's compressing SDR/HDR into a single stream.
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post #217 of 537 Old 09-16-2017, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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All features in HDMI 2.1 are optional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
Just to reiterate for those unaware, Paul Williams of Panasonic and Vincent Teoh have confirmed that HDR10+ works over HDMI with HDMI 2.0b. HDMI 2.1 is not required.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54128881
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54757846


According to Jeff Park, Director of Technology at HDMI LA, a HDMI 2.0a/2.0b => HDMI 2.1 firmware upgrade is possible if the HDMI chipset was designed to be upgradable.
https://cepro.ehmedia.co/webinar-confirmation11710499


The HDMI 2.1 features are:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/
. Dynamic HDR (i.e. transmission of SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata across HDMI)
. eARC
. VRR
. 48 Gbps ([email protected] HFR, …).


According to Rob Tobias, CEO & President at HDMI LA, all features in HDMI 2.1 are optional.




For example, Microsoft will certify the Xbox One X Project Scorpio for HDMI 2.1 VRR when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.






Marantz can certify the new Marantz AVRs for HDMI 2.1 eARC when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.
"eARC (Enhanced Audio Return Channel) supports the transmission of 3D audio from your TV apps with a single HDMI connection for the simplest setup. This feature will be enabled via a future firmware update."
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=SR7012

HDMI Audio Return Channel
https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-au...n-channel-arc/
http://developer.dolby.com/news.aspx







High-end TV makers can commit to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 "Dynamic HDR", i.e. transmission of ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata of ST 2094 compliant Dolby Vision, ST 2094-20/30 dynamic metadata of Technicolor HDR or ST 2094-40 dynamic metadata of HDR10Plus across HDMI.

High-end TV makers can support all operational and being standardized (i.e. via committed upgrade) HDR formats: a win-win for consumers and HDR TV makers.
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Push for universal HDR TV!

Last edited by DanBa; 09-16-2017 at 03:51 AM.
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post #218 of 537 Old 09-18-2017, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Alphabet soup

https://twitter.com/Nebul2/status/909728762983575552

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post #219 of 537 Old 09-18-2017, 11:23 AM
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Awesome. I want that as wallpaper for my home theatre!
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post #220 of 537 Old 09-23-2017, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Push for Temporal Sub-layering HFR for backward compatibility

David Wood, Chair, DVB CM-UHDTV, shares his expert view into 120fps High Frame Rate. [See page 46]
http://www.csimagazine.com/eblast/Di...ember_2017.pdf
"…
UHDTV is clearly on the rise in 2017, but there are different roads that could be taken from here. The word on the street is that “the best UHDTV set to buy is the one that comes on the market ten minutes after you’ve bought one”.

High Frame Rate could almost be called the Forgotten Feature of UHDTV. There was never any doubt that doubling the Frame Rate would significantly add to UHDTV image quality when there was movement in the scene.
But doubling the Frame Rate seemed likely to seriously affect production resources, and need larger storage and higher clock rates for the decoder. In other words it was going to be expensive.
The decoder makers told DVB several years ago that HFR would call for development of a new decoder IC, and a faster HDMI interface [HDMI 2.1]. They looked us in the eye and said that they could only do it if there would be large scale usage by broadcast and broadband providers. We have a ‘chicken and egg’ situation.

The road to HDR seems relatively certain. It remains to be seen what proportion of UHDTV sets include HDR capability, and what kind of screen brightness they will have. But in ten years’ time it will probably be the norm.

The road to higher frame rates is possible but less certain. The reality is that HFR will only happen if broadcasters and broadband providers are convinced that (as they say in France) the game is worth the candle. Only if they say so, will the decoder manufacturers set in motion the receivers for HFR. Its success probably rests on whether sports producers are convinced and sport fans demand it.


If HFR will come, the temporal sub-layering HFR profile will likely be used for backward compatibility with current 60fps UHDTV.


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....1#post14112531


http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/...54v020301p.pdf


While remaining functional for many years to come, universal HDR TV shall be able to play any HDR / HFR content if the industry shall commit to support only the Temporal Sub-layering HFR profile for backward compatibility.


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post #221 of 537 Old 09-23-2017, 08:50 AM
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post #222 of 537 Old 09-23-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hristoslav2 View Post
Nice but that chart is quite old now. I'd like to see it updated for HDR10Plus. It would also be a chance to fix the howling typo in the very first box, too! (unless MAPED is a new dolby thing )

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post #223 of 537 Old 09-30-2017, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Multi-HDR

Latest Multi-HDR TV table:




Latest Yoeri Geutskens' diagram:
https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/910090809692835840

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post #224 of 537 Old 10-03-2017, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Latest Yoeri Geutskens' diagram



" ... In the latest update, for a fairer picture, I've added Philips/Technicolor's Prime Single HDR format, SL-HDR1, even though it's currently supported by LG TVs only. It's ironic that no Philips-branded TV appears to feature it, neither from P&F USA (Funai) nor from TP Vision in Europe.

I've moved Apple to reflect the lack of HLG support. The tvOS11 system software leak just before launch revealed the code is prepared to support HLG but Apple denies it. Perhaps this has to do with Apple TV 4K currently supporting HDMI 2.0a while HLG requires v2.0b. Likely, Apple is in no rush to upgrade this until the company launches live streaming services for Apple TV in 4K HDR.

I've added Amazon Fire TV, which notably is in a different location than Amazon Video. Latter streaming service supports HDR in both HDR10 and Dolby Vision flavors whereas the company's video streaming device only handles HDR10. Such incongruence is not uncommon. Note the sitation at Google (with Chomecast versus Google Play) is just like it, only the other way round. ..."
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hdr-f...eri-geutskens/
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post #225 of 537 Old 10-07-2017, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Universal HDR set-top box

ARRIS UHD HDR Android TV could be your next STB.
"At IBC 2017, ARRIS International plc (NASDAQ: ARRS) unveiled a new portfolio of UHD HDR set-top boxes with Android TV™ along with professional services to help simplify and accelerate the launch of Android™ based TV services for operators around the world. …"
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300518593.html
http://www.arris.com/products/android-tv-video-devices/






Arris will certify the new ARRIS UHD HDR STB for HDMI 2.1 when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.
These Universal HDR STB are compatible with all existing operational HDR formats.
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post #226 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The road to TV heaven

"The road to TV perfection is paved with many 3-letter acronyms.
Here's what the roadmap looks like and what it means:"
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/road-...eri-geutskens/

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post #227 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 09:27 AM
 
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Still odd to see that the chart hasn't been updated for accuracy, with Samsung now supporting HLG both through internal apps as well as over HDMI, as confirmed by people with both 2016 and 2017 TVs and external devices (including Samsung's M9500/M8500 4K blu ray players) that support HLG.
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post #228 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
Still odd to see that the chart hasn't been updated for accuracy, with Samsung now supporting HLG both through internal apps as well as over HDMI, as confirmed by people with both 2016 and 2017 TVs and external devices (including Samsung's M9500/M8500 4K blu ray players) that support HLG.


As he stated in his below post. Just send him a link to an official Samsung announcement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoeri View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again here: Allegedly Samsung supports HLG in their 2017 and even 2016 sets but it seems they cannot be persuaded to admit they do. Despite repeated requests to several Samsung officials I have to this date not seen a single official statement syaing they support HLG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoeri View Post

I do not know why this is, just that it is like this. Perhaps they're afraid of distracting from the message of HDR10+ or otherwise causing confusion?

If you find an official statement somewhere, do let me know.

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post #229 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 03:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayingSalty View Post

As he stated in his below post. Just send him a link to an official Samsung announcement.

Is this a chart that intends to accurately portray which manufacturers support which HDR formats? If so, then it fails in that regard. Samsung stated back in 2016 that their 2016 TVs would get a HLG firmware update, and they delivered on this promise early in 2017, as confirmed by many individuals who have provided proof. Their 2017 line supports HLG out of the box, as many reviews have confirmed.

As of last month, both the 2016 & 2017 sets support HDMI 2.0b, which means they can both display HLG over HDMI.
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post #230 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
Is this a chart that intends to accurately portray which manufacturers support which HDR formats?
No, it is not. It is a chart which portrays which manufacturers have officially announced publicly and on the record, the formats they do/will support.

This is a smaller and more restricted list, than the list of "what works" in our own testing.

He won't update the chart until and unless Samsung announce it, officially.

It's his chart, so he can do what he likes - even if we'd prefer that it showed Samsung supporting HLG.

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Ah, so it's a useless and uninformative chart then.

Every professional reviewer, including John Archer of Forbes, of 2017 Samsung TVs was able to get confirmation that they support the format. That should be more than enough.
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post #232 of 537 Old 10-12-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineproduct View Post
Ah, so it's a useless and uninformative chart then.
The following post isfrom a discussion on Blu-ray.com over a month ago discussing this chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatEquation View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHD4k View Post
So I'm told but it seems impossibe to find an official statement about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatEquation View Post

They probably don't consider it important enough yet to make an official announcement.
We both know you follow Blu-ray.com. This same issue was discussed over a month ago. It was explained then that he was not going to update the chart without an “Official Samsung announcement”.

So even if you try to deny that, he even restated this a few posts back in this thread. So you fully know that the issue is not, do the Samsungs support it, but that he will not update the chart without an official announcement.

Since this concerns you so much, I think a solution would be for you to produce your own chart.

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post #233 of 537 Old 10-24-2017, 10:24 AM
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ARRIS UHD HDR Android TV could be your next STB.
"At IBC 2017, ARRIS International plc (NASDAQ: ARRS) unveiled a new portfolio of UHD HDR set-top boxes with Android TV™ along with professional services to help simplify and accelerate the launch of Android™ based TV services for operators around the world. …"

Arris will certify the new ARRIS UHD HDR STB for HDMI 2.1 when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.
These Universal HDR STB are compatible with all existing operational HDR formats.
Not yet Universal HDR STB but

"[Shenzhen, China, October 24, 2017] Huawei and Dolby Laboratories, Inc. (NYSE: DLB) today announced that the Huawei Q22 set-top box is the first IPTV set-top box in the world to support Dolby Vision™ high-dynamic-range (HDR) technology."
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post #234 of 537 Old 10-25-2017, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The Huawei Q22 could be a universal HDR STB.
Apparently, its SoC is Hi3796M V200 from HiSilicon, a Huawei company.
The Huawei Q22 set-top box is providing by Altibox, a Norwegian fibre operator.
https://www.altibox.no/privat/kundes...e-til-dekoder/
http://avforum.no/forum/digitalt-bak...ml#post2051196
https://www.tek.no/artikler/test-huawei-q22/399158
https://androidtvbox.eu/hisilicon-hi...on-hdr-10-hlg/





The Hi3796M V200 SoC is compatible with all existing operational HDR formats: HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR ("HEVC and VP9 10bit decoding").
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post #235 of 537 Old 10-28-2017, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Apple streaming

Apple is using the 10-bit ST.2084 PQ single layer profile, HEVC Dolby Vision (Profile 5).
https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/specs/



A single-layer Dolby Vision signal excluding dynamic metadata is similar to a HDR10 signal.
The Apple TV 4K has to output the "HDR10" signal and the newly created HDR10 static metadata to an HDR10 TV.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...l#post54866886

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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #236 of 537 Old 10-29-2017, 10:17 AM
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@DanBa , the Vizio P Series added HLG with its latest firmware. See this post. And I can confirm.
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post #237 of 537 Old 10-29-2017, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Latest Multi-HDR TV table

Thanks Puddy77 !





Using a cheap VP9 Profile 2 YouTube HDR compliant media player like the Chromecast Ultra, a Vizio P TV can play VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR contents:

VP9-PQ YouTube HDR file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDMI >> HDR10 compliant Vizio TV

VP9-HLG YouTube HDR file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-HLG compliant Chromecast Ultra > HLG uncompressed video >> HDMI >> HLG HDR compliant Vizio TV.


And then this Vizio TV becomes a universal HDR TV: it can play any existing operational HDR content.
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #238 of 537 Old 10-29-2017, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
Thanks Puddy77 !





Using a cheap VP9 Profile 2 YouTube HDR compliant media player like the Chromecast Ultra, a Vizio P TV can play VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR contents:

VP9-PQ YouTube HDR file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDMI >> HDR10 compliant Vizio TV

VP9-HLG YouTube HDR file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-HLG compliant Chromecast Ultra > HLG uncompressed video >> HDMI >> HLG HDR compliant Vizio TV.


And then this Vizio TV becomes a universal HDR TV: it can play any existing operational HDR content.
Except HDR10+.
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post #239 of 537 Old 10-29-2017, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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HDR10+ and Technicolor HDR are not yet existing operational HDR formats.

Dolby Vision is currently the most complex HDR format due to its dynamic metadata color volume mapping and its 12-bit dual layer architecture.
Therefore, if a TV SoC like the Vizio P TV's SoC is powerful enough to support Dolby Vision, this TV SoC is able to support any other HEVC HDR format like HDR10+ or Technicolor HDR.
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #240 of 537 Old 10-29-2017, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
HDR10+ and Technicolor HDR are not yet existing operational HDR formats.

Dolby Vision is currently the most complex HDR format due to its dynamic metadata color volume mapping and its 12-bit dual layer architecture.
Therefore, if a TV SoC like the Vizio P TV's SoC is powerful enough to support Dolby Vision, this TV SoC is able to support any other HEVC HDR format like HDR10+ or Technicolor HDR.
You said operational, not widespread.

Plenty of HDR10+ demos have been shown off at various conferences and a SES has demo'd HDR10+ over satellite. Plus, content providers are already currently HDR10+ for Amazon. By definition, it is operational.

It's not a matter of whether it can support a format, it's a matter of whether it does. You can't call a TV a universal HDR display if it doesn't support all the formats.
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