Universal HDR-compliant displays - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: HDR TV shall support all HDR formats.
HDR TV shall support all HDR formats. 116 95.87%
Other (Please detail in a post) 5 4.13%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 514 Old 10-30-2016, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Universal HDR-compliant displays

As the industry is unable to reach a consensus on HDR, consumers should take over and push for universal HDR-compliant TV which shall be compatible with all existing and being standardized (i.e. via committed upgrade) HDR formats:
. existing HDR formats: HDR10 and Dolby Vision
. being standardized HDR formats: ST 2094-10 Dynamic HDR, ST 2094-20 Dynamic HDR, ST 2094-30 Dynamic HDR, ST 2094-40 Dynamic HDR, BBC/NHK HLG HDR, VP9-HLG and VP9-PQ.

Please vote for universal HDR-compliant TV (i.e. "HDR TV shall support all HDR formats").
Thank you!




=> Dynamic HDR: using open standard SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata
The SMPTE ST 2094 Dynamic Metadata for [reference mastering display to consumer TV] Color Volume Transform includes 4 different dynamic metadata methods "from Dolby, Philips, Technicolor, Samsung that are considered sufficiently different to make it impossible to rationalize into a single method.": ST 2094-10 from Dolby, ST 2094-20 from Philips, ST 2094-30 from Technicolor, ST 2094-40 from Samsung.
The different ST 2094 dynamic metadata methods shall be added to the upcoming HEVC V5, which will be finalized in October 2017.
http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/workprog/wp...18&isn_qu=2025
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/se...newsearch=true
https://www.smpte.org/sites/default/...2015-FINAL.pdf

=> Broadcast HDR: using SMPTE ST 2084 PQ and using HLG
http://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/Pages/2016-PR27.aspx
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsKmh5mW8AA46Z9.jpg
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...dr-pq-hlg.html

=> Royalty-free Internet HDR: VP9-PQ, VP9-HLG
https://source.android.com/devices/t...splay/hdr.html
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...ts-111296.aspx
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...ticleID=110383


The ideal HDR TV shall be compatible with all existing and being standardized (i.e. via TV manufacturer-committed upgrade) HDR formats.

Such an universal HDR TV can be designed around universal HDR-compliant SoC like Sigma Designs STV7804 SoC which is compatible with HLG, HDR10 and Dolby Vision.
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/news/sig...ate-converter/

Such an universal HDR TV should be compatible with the upcoming HDMI 2.1 which should use the upcoming CTA-861-G supporting HLG and SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata (HDMI 2.0a uses CTA-861.3).
http://danielbafr.free.fr/photos/cta.jpg


Can we let "what happens in the industry happens"?

Can we trust the industry which firstly creates an open standard HDR format (i.e. CTA HDR10 or BDA BDMV HDR =~ ST 2086 + ST 2084), then standardizes the missing dynamic metadata adaptation for consistent visual ST 2094, one of the 3 fundamental HDR building blocks.




As the industry is unable to reach a consensus on HDR, consumers should take over and push for universal HDR-compliant TV which shall be compatible with all existing and being standardized (i.e. via committed upgrade) HDR formats.

No more early-adopter industry-driven HDR TV incompatible with other HDR content, but consumer-driven universal HDR-compliant TV able to play any HDR content!
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post #2 of 514 Old 10-30-2016, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Audio formats supported by AVR

Somehow, a precedent: Audio formats supported by AVR (in this case the Marantz AV7703 A/V pre-amplifier)
http://manuals.marantz.com/AV7703/NA/EN/index.php







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post #3 of 514 Old 10-30-2016, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Dolby Vision royalty cost

"You may hear about one other difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10. Some people will point out that TV manufacturers pay to have Dolby Vision in their displays, while HDR10 is free. While that’s true, the difference isn’t significant.
The royalty cost to add Dolby Vision ranges from less than $3 per TV to lower than $2 per TV.
Manufacturers are making some very affordable Dolby Vision enabled TVs – Vizio’s M series of Dolby Vision enabled displays includes some that retail for as low as $750."
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dolby...ar-giles-baker
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post #4 of 514 Old 10-30-2016, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Dynamic metadata SMPTE ST 2094 & Ultra HD Blu-ray

According to Thierry Fautier, President of Ultra HD Forum, open standard dynamic metadata ST 2094 is not part of BDA UHD spec.

BDA’s HDR = BDMV HDR or "HDR10" =~ ST 2084 + ST 2086

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post #5 of 514 Old 10-30-2016, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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About SMPTE 2094 Dynamic HDR timeline

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post
There were no proposals for SMPTE ST 2094 at the last HEVC meeting and after looking around I read that they are thinking of using private SEI messages. A private SEI message can be put in a HEVC stream and any HEVC decoder that recognizes the private SEI message can use it or send it over HDMI 2.1. It makes things a bit more complicated but the advantage is that they wouldn't have to add SMPTE ST 2094 to the HEVC specification and could potentially have support for it in products released in 2017.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=551

Thank you, Richard.

Last edited by DanBa; 10-30-2016 at 03:25 PM.
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post #6 of 514 Old 11-01-2016, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Will Your TV Be Compatible With ATSC 3.0 Broadcast HDR?
https://hdguru.com/will-your-tv-be-c...broadcast-hdr/




Some more details:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread....7#post12754197

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
In a nutshell they involve the PQ and/or the HLG transfer function and in some cases with various additional technologies tacked on…..

BBC/NHK proposal (HLG)
Samsung/Sharp/Qualcomm joint proposal (HDR10)
Technicolor proposal (transfer function agnostic, i.e. supports both HLG and PQ)
Dolby Vision
Qualcomm proposal (pre-processes HDR10 for a claimed improved result)
Ericsson proposal (pre-processes HDR10 for a claimed improved result)

P.S.
If memory serves, the last proposal on the list above ^ also optimizes the HEVC QP chroma offset values.
Thank you, Penton.

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #7 of 514 Old 11-07-2016, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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A "fresher" acronym: DMCVT
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=585


Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #8 of 514 Old 11-07-2016, 04:38 AM
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I voted YES

lack of standardized specs for HDR means we are all paying to be beta testers for new displays

and the industry should clean up the HDCP mess they have created too...
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please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
HDMI.org:what a mess HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
LG C9 OLED owner


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post #9 of 514 Old 11-07-2016, 08:20 AM
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If we recognize that there are more uses than just cinema such as sports and entertainment, gaming, then it becomes apparent that hitching our horse to a single, proprietary closed cinema system will effectively kill HDR for other uses. Dolby licensing per television, the number quoted $2-3 per set doesn't sound so unreasonable, but there are other obstacle in the production/distribution chain due to licensing and also due to transmission of metadata and the non-ending revision of HDMI to accommodate it.

The dolby vision workflow of decklinks, CMUs, grading, analyzing, making multiple trim passes, for every conceivable display target from 600-10,000 nits, is lots of unnecessary extra work and in the end, you have to deliver your grade and XML metadata to a post house for creation of the Dolby mezzanine file, for very little additional benefit.

Consider that Sony in their Z9D are heavily touting and betting in the Z9D series that they can simply upscale all your SDR content to nearly as good, close enough that any differences will be small and you won't care. And they are probably right. That's going to leave true HDR to one domain, the big Hollywood Studio productions who can assign value to the Dolby brand.

To avoid that unfortunate outcome, we should all get behind HLG. It's true HDR, it's easy, only slightly less ambitious but more realistic goals, 5000 nit displays, no metadata, compatibility with SDR transmission systems and backward compatible. 17.6 stops of dynamic brightness, more than you can discern in one scene, more than any cinema camera can capture, easy workflow. You will be able to grade your own family videos with it.

HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS
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post #10 of 514 Old 11-07-2016, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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YouTube HDR

"Starting today, you can watch YouTube videos in HDR on supported devices, such as HDR TVs with the new Chromecast Ultra, and soon on all 2016 Samsung SUHD and UHD TVs."
https://youtube.googleblog.com/2016/...t-for-hdr.html

Apparently, today

VP9-PQ (VP9 profile 2) HDR file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > uncompressed HDR10 video stream >> HDMI 2.0a >> HDR10-compliant TV

and soon VP9-PQ and hopefully VP9-HLG should be implemented on all 2016 Samsung SUHD and UHD TVs.


"Starting today, any creator can upload HDR videos to YouTube".
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7126552







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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #11 of 514 Old 11-07-2016, 07:59 PM
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voted option 1
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Last edited by losservatore; 11-07-2016 at 08:04 PM.
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post #12 of 514 Old 11-08-2016, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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YouTube HDR & HDR10

About HDR TVs with the new Chromecast Ultra from "Starting today, you can watch YouTube videos in HDR on supported devices, such as HDR TVs with the new Chromecast Ultra, and soon on all 2016 Samsung SUHD and UHD TVs.":
https://youtube.googleblog.com/2016/...t-for-hdr.html

The VP9-PQ YouTube HDR is not the CTA / BDA HDR10:
. the codec of royalty-free VP9-PQ is the royalty-free 10-bit VP9
. the codec of HDR10 is the royalty-paid 10-bit HEVC H.265.

However, as far as I understand, the attributes of the uncompressed video streams of VP9-PQ & HDR10 from a media player like the Chromecast Ultra to a compatible HDR TV are exactly the same:
. same color primaries Rec.2020
. same transfer function SMPTE ST 2084 PQ
. same static metadata
. same interface HDMI 2.0a


Starting today

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > uncompressed "HDR10" video stream >> HDMI 2.0a >> HDR10 compliant TV

and soon

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant TV

VP9-HLG file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-HLG compliant TV
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #13 of 514 Old 11-10-2016, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The 2nd phase of Ultra HD Premium:
https://www.avforums.com/article/uhd...-premium.13090

"So you’ve achieved your goals to date, what’s next for the Ultra HD Alliance?

Well that brings us on to phase two and we’re now setting our sights on to other related Ultra HD areas. There are really two areas that we’re focussing on and the first is broadcast.

The other area that we’re looking at is very generically called battery powered devices but basically gets into the mobile space.

Well it's obviously dependent on the standards being agreed, especially in the case of broadcast, but hopefully we'll see further announcements at CES in January and then later into 2017.


Speaking of image quality, does the UHD Alliance plan to adopt dynamic metadata for HDR10?

The UHD Alliance is agnostic towards the HDR formats and there’s already HDR10 and Dolby Vision included in our specs. Obviously Dolby is also a member of course and their format already has the capability to deliver dynamic metadata. I think as HDR becomes more commonplace we’ll revisit the specs and things like dynamic metadata will be adopted. As I said we’re agnostic and the current specs aren’t fixed, so they’ll be adjusted as technology changes. Some of the existing specs and standards are already fairly new and in the case of broadcast are still being agreed."
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #14 of 514 Old 11-12-2016, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Near-universal HDR TV

YouTube expects VP9 Profile 2 / YouTube HDR to be included in every HDR TV in 2017.


HDR10 / Dolby Vision TV makers (LG, Vizio, Skyworth, TCL, Loewe or LeEco) will likely add YouTube HDR into their 2017 HDR TV.

These HDR TV should be near-universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, YouTube HDR).

Dynamic HDR / HEVC HLG HDR update should be possible if planned:
. SMPTE ST 2094-10 Dynamic HDR is similar to Dolby Vision leaving out the standardization stuff
. ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata proposed by Dolby seems to be more complex than other ST 2094 dynamic metadata
. Dolby Vision capable SoC should have enough processing power to support any Dynamic HDR.


"CTA HDR10 doesn't specify a codec, and although presence of a VP9 Profile 2 decoder is not universal in this model year, we expect it to be in every HDR TV in 2017, so the distinction will soon be irrelevant to consumers."
[Steven Robertson – YouTube]
https://youtube.googleblog.com/2016/...t-for-hdr.html


CTA HDR10: defines HDR10 compatible displays (i.e. CTA doesn’t specify a codec)
https://www.cta.tech/News/Press-Rele...-Displays.aspx

DECE HDR10: defines HDR10 media profile (i.e. DECE specifies the HEVC codec)
http://www.uvcentral.com/sites/defau...Format-2_1.pdf

(Ultra HD Blu-ray) BDMV HDR = DECE HDR10
http://blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downlo...608a-clean.pdf

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> VP9-PQ YouTube HDR compliant TV

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!

Last edited by DanBa; 11-12-2016 at 07:43 AM.
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post #15 of 514 Old 11-12-2016, 07:59 AM
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Just opinion, but MPEG-LA and HEVC Advance should be hating themselves, their royalty income is being circumvented, and the best current codec is (literally) going down the Tube.
Also on the plate for 2017 is AV1, the successor to HEVC, royalty free, half again as efficient as HEVC. I think I am going to want that too in my next HDR display upgrade.

The YouTube/Chromecast Ultra HDR which is fundamentally a kludge, could soon emerge as the defacto HDR standard for most. As a content developer, although the process works it is extra work encoding to another codec/container, yet another reason I would throw my support behind HLG which does not need metadata, and the display device does not need to switch into and out of a separate (PQ 2084) HDR mode.
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HDR Colorist and Conversions
INTO THE CAVE OF WONDERS
Directed by MANUEL BENITO DE VALLE Produced by PEDRO PABLO FIGUEROA
Cast MANUEL ANGEL REINA, CLAUDIA GARROTE
LOVETHEFRAME STORIES, SOUNDTRACKS AND FILMS

Last edited by Tom Roper; 11-12-2016 at 08:03 AM.
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post #16 of 514 Old 11-12-2016, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The LG's 2017 HDR TV Signature "will be unveiled at CES 2017, earned top industry honors in video displays with the “Best of Innovations Award”".
http://www.lgnewsroom.com/2016/11/lg...vation-awards/

"In regards to HDR, LG has made an important pledge to support all major formats, including Dolby Vision, which other TV manufacturers have shied away from backing."
[CES 2016]
http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/5/107...unced-ces-2016
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #17 of 514 Old 11-13-2016, 02:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Near-universal HDR media player (HDR10, Dolby Vision, YouTube HDR)

The Chromecast Ultra streaming media player should be compatible with HDR10 (officially announced), Dolby Vision (officially announced), VP9-PQ YouTube HDR and hopefully VP9-HLG YouTube HDR:

Dolby Vision file >> Internet >> Dolby Vision compliant Chromecast Ultra > Dolby Vision uncompressed video >> Dolby Vision compliant TV

Dolby Vision Profile 6 file >> Internet >> Dolby Vision compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

Dolby Vision Profile 0/2/4 file >> Internet >> Dolby Vision compliant Chromecast Ultra > SDR uncompressed video >> SDR TV

HDR10 file >> Internet >> HDR10 compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> VP9-PQ YouTube HDR compliant TV

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV




http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...les-levels.pdf

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #18 of 514 Old 11-13-2016, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
About HDR TVs with the new Chromecast Ultra from "Starting today, you can watch YouTube videos in HDR on supported devices, such as HDR TVs with the new Chromecast Ultra, and soon on all 2016 Samsung SUHD and UHD TVs.":
https://youtube.googleblog.com/2016/...t-for-hdr.html

The VP9-PQ YouTube HDR is not the CTA / BDA HDR10:
. the codec of royalty-free VP9-PQ is the royalty-free 10-bit VP9
. the codec of HDR10 is the royalty-paid 10-bit HEVC H.265.

However, as far as I understand, the attributes of the uncompressed video streams of VP9-PQ & HDR10 from a media player like the Chromecast Ultra to a compatible HDR TV are exactly the same:
. same color primaries Rec.2020
. same transfer function SMPTE ST 2084 PQ
. same static metadata
. same interface HDMI 2.0a
Does this mean all 2016 Samsung displays could be upgraded to support VP9 Profile 2 with a simple firmware update?
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I think so, as far as I understand.

The VP9-PQ YouTube HDR firmware upgrade is possible because the 2016 Samsung HDR TVs very likely have a SoC with 10-bit VP9 hardware decoding required by YouTube HDR.

A lot of existing HDR TVs have only 8-bit VP9 decoding capability.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43318930
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #20 of 514 Old 11-13-2016, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post
I think so, as far as I understand.

The VP9-PQ YouTube HDR firmware upgrade is possible because the 2016 Samsung HDR TVs very likely have a SoC with 10-bit VP9 hardware decoding required by YouTube HDR.

A lot of existing HDR TVs have only 8-bit VP9 decoding capability.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43318930
At least that's promising news. On Black Friday, I plan on getting Samsung's mid-range KU6300 model for my bedroom. I currently have a Sharp 80" model I got last year on Black Friday, a very good deal I couldn't pass up, but they specifically advertised that they would support any new, emerging technologies, and they touted "SPECTROS' color, which was the best color on a consumer display at the time. The TV is fully compatible with HDMI 2.0 full spec, it does 4k60 4:4:4 72% rec2020, but Sharps tech support is abysmal! "I guess you can say I'm jumping ship and going with a brand that's more reliable in the update department."
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post #21 of 514 Old 11-15-2016, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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HDR in a wide variety of ways: consumer confusion

High Dynamic Range and Consumer Confusion
https://www.cedmagazine.com/data-foc...umer-confusion

" … The technology permits viewers to see pictures that are closer to what a content creator intended, and thus it can be argued that it allows purer access to what some call “artistic intent.” But all the high-minded ideals around creativity won’t do a lick of good if confusion in marketing and consumer messaging around HDR bewilders consumers.

Those are some of the suggestions included in a newly released report from Strategy Analytics, “High Dynamic Range TV: Content and Technology Implications." The research also reviews some of the HDR technologies vying for supremacy including Dolby Vision, HDR10, and HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma), which was originally developed by the BBC. The Strategy Analytics report concludes that HDR10 has already become the leading standard, and HLG will also become widely adopted during 2017, while Dolby Vision will remain as a premium HDR option.

"HDR allows content creators to get closer than ever before to delivering artistic intent," David Mercer, principal analyst and the report's author, says. "But they still have to decide which technologies to use and understand the different ways HDR is implemented in consumer TVs."

Since TV manufacturers are describing HDR in a wide variety of ways, and because there are many differences in the capabilities of HDR-enabled TVs, the chance that consumer confusion is high remains an issue.

"HDR ultimately raises the question of what artistic intent means and whether there is a single technology that can deliver it," Mercer notes. …"
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #22 of 514 Old 11-16-2016, 04:59 PM
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Maybe some of you can help answer this...

Will the YouTube HDR work on the 2016 Vizio M series tv's that recently came out?

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post #23 of 514 Old 11-17-2016, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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It is very unlikely that the 2016 Vizio M can directly support 10-bit VP9-PQ YouTube HDR; because, like the 2016 Vizio P, the 2016 Vizio M would not have a SoC with 10-bit VP9 hardware decoding required by YouTube HDR.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post43318930

To be sure, you should ask Matt McRae, the CTO of Vizio.

You may use a $69 Chromecast Ultra streaming media player:

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> VP9-PQ YouTube HDR compliant TV

VP9-PQ file stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant Chromecast Ultra > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant Vizio M

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
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post #24 of 514 Old 11-17-2016, 07:46 AM
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Thank for the reply. I did ask him in that thread, but he's probably overwhelmed with everyone else that he may have missed it.

It just kinda sucks because I think youtube is used the most for most people, well, at least for me. A good alternative is VEMO, but I haven't even checked or seen if they have casting in their app yet. I'm just always using youtube.
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80" Vizio LED - (60" Vizio plasma - retired)
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post #25 of 514 Old 11-17-2016, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hevc hlg hdr

Hikari TV operated by NTT Plala launched a 4K IP channel broadcast in HEVC HLG HDR.
https://www.hikaritv.net/english/







Hikari TV 4K IP channel broadcast in HEVC HLG HDR >> IP network >> 4K SDR TV

Hikari TV 4K IP channel broadcast in HEVC HLG HDR >> IP network >> HEVC HLG HDR compliant TV


Thank you, Penton, for the tip!
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=663

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #26 of 514 Old 11-17-2016, 04:15 PM
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UHD-1 Phase 2 has been approved by the DVB with support for HDR (HLG/PQ), HFR, and NGA.
https://www.dvb.org/news/uhd_1-phase-2-approved-by-dvb
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post #27 of 514 Old 11-18-2016, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post
UHD-1 Phase 2 has been approved by the DVB with support for HDR (HLG/PQ), HFR, and NGA.
https://www.dvb.org/news/uhd_1-phase-2-approved-by-dvb
So, PQ10 and HLG10 are new HDR formats.

=> HLG10:

Hopefully HLG10 are exactly similar to HEVC HLG HDR of the Japanese NTT and of others.
In particular, hopefully, there is only one HLG uncompressed video.

HLG10 content >> broadcast network / Internet >> HLG10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > HLG uncompressed video >> HLG10 compliant TV

VP9-HLG content stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-HLG compliant streaming media player / set-top box > HLG uncompressed video >> VP9-HLG compliant TV

NTT Hikari TV 4K IP channel broadcast in HEVC HLG HDR >> IP network >> VP9-HLG compliant streaming media player / set-top box > HLG uncompressed video >> HEVC HLG HDR compliant TV


=> PQ10:

PQ10 = HDR10 without HDR10 metadata

PQ10 content >> broadcast network >> PQ10 compliant TV

PQ10 content >> broadcast network / Internet >> PQ10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > Ultra HD Forum PQ10 uncompressed video >> PQ10 compliant TV


HDR10 content >> Internet >> HDR10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

VP9-PQ content stored on YouTube cloud >> Internet >> VP9-PQ compliant streaming media player / set-top box > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

I am wondering if the Ultra HD Forum PQ10 uncompressed video can tolerate / include HDR10 metadata with blank / default value (i.e. then PQ10 uncompressed video = CTA HDR10 uncompressed video) so that there is no need to use a special PQ10 streaming media player / set-top box for outputting CTA HDR10 uncompressed video.

PQ10 content >> broadcast system / Internet >> PQ10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> HDR10 compliant TV

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
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post #28 of 514 Old 11-18-2016, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Apparently, a PQ10 compliant set-top box / streaming media player can send default value HDR10 metadata to a PQ10 compliant TV or a legacy HDR10 compliant TV.

PQ10 content >> broadcast system / Internet >> PQ10 compliant set-top box / streaming media player > "CTA HDR10 uncompressed video" >> legacy HDR10 compliant TV




https://twitter.com/thierryfautier/s...41417023225861

Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
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Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #29 of 514 Old 11-20-2016, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post
The static metadata (SMPTE ST 2086) is optional for HDMI 2.0a so there is no need to send fake metadata. That is why he keeps saying that broadcasters don't want to use static metadata since he thinks you are asking for an explanation.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=692

Thank you, Richard!


As metadata is not mentioned in the DECE HDR10 media profile, the HDR10 metadata could be also optional in HDR10 HEVC coding.
Then PQ10 is similar to HDR10, and a legacy HDR10 compliant TV could be compatible with PQ10.

PQ10 = HDR10 without HDR10 metadata





PQ10 content >> MPEG-2 TS broadcast network ("DVB-T2", "RTP/UDP/IP" …) >> PQ10 compliant TV
PQ10 content >> MPEG-2 TS broadcast network ("DVB-T2", "RTP/UDP/IP" …) >> legacy HDR10 compliant TV

PQ10 content >> MPEG-2 TS broadcast network >> PQ10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> PQ10 compliant TV
PQ10 content >> MPEG-2 TS broadcast network >> PQ10 compliant streaming media player / set-top box > CTA HDR10 uncompressed video >> legacy HDR10 compliant TV

However, there could be some interoperability issues between HDR HFR PQ10 content and legacy HDR10 compliant TV due to different HEVC levels:
. HEVC Main 10 Profile at Level 5.1 is used for legacy DECE HDR10 compliant TV and for HDR PQ10 compliant TV
. HEVC Main 10 Profile at Level 5.2 is used for HDR HFR PQ10 compliant TV.
https://www.dvb.org/standards#standardgroup_24
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=624
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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
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Push for universal HDR TV!
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post #30 of 514 Old 11-20-2016, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Hdmi 2.1

The CTA-861-G standard is available.
http://www.techstreet.com/standards/...uct_id=1934129

HDMI 2.1, using CTA-861-G, will be released very soon.
HDMI 2.0a uses CTA-861-3.


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Universal audio/video receiver (Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.) is achieved.
Universal HDR TV (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR, Dynamic HDR) is required.

Push for universal HDR TV!
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