Bosch Season 2 versus Season 1 image quality? Dolby Vision vs HDR10? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-12-2016, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Bosch Season 2 versus Season 1 image quality? Dolby Vision vs HDR10?

On my new E6 (two weeks old now) I've been watching Bosch (via amazon prime streaming) seasons 1 and 2 (well, I'm only 4 eps into season 2) and I noticed something quite odd.

Season 1 is in UHD HDR, and season 2 is UHD DV. So, I was expecting season 2 to be ever so slightly better (if I could tell at all).

However, it's just the opposite.

Season 2 is displaying TONS of (chroma?) noise in dark areas. It's very obvious, and pretty distracting. It was bad enough that I went back to view an episode from season 1 to see if something had happened to my new TV. Nope, season 1 still looks great.

So, am I seeing:

1) a difference in DV settings on the TV (I tried changing a few things to see if I could clean it up, but nothing helped much).
2) a side effect of DV that one wouldn't otherwise expect?
3) evidence that season 2 was recorded with inferior cameras, or something else different about the way season 2 was recorded/compressed/delivered?

Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks.
-Kevin

Last edited by KevinG; 12-12-2016 at 10:14 AM.
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-12-2016, 09:06 AM
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I found the same thing. I too would like to understand what's going on there. Have you watched any other DV content?
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-12-2016, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Andrew~ View Post
I found the same thing. I too would like to understand what's going on there. Have you watched any other DV content?
Glad I'm not the only one.

I don't think I've watched any other DV content that I can think of. I only brought it up here because that was a clear difference between season 1 and season 2 of Bosch.

I'll go search around and see if any other Amazon content is using DV...I can check those out to see if the issue persists there.
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-12-2016, 11:49 AM
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The first season I thought looked great with maybe just a little too high black point in some scenes, but very very nice, although not very punchy for most colors.

2nd season episode 1 I thought looked great, along with the DV mastered intro sequence bringing about much of the color saturation missing from S1, but also brought in a lot of very dark expanses riddled with lots of noise and no details. Ep2 and on just look worse...

Season 1 = 2016
Season 2 = 1995

I have to chalk this up to whomever did the mastering and wonder why?


DV does not look like this at all watching Marco Polo on Netflix FYI...
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-12-2016, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jond0 View Post

I have to chalk this up to whomever did the mastering and wonder why?


DV does not look like this at all watching Marco Polo on Netflix FYI...
Okay, that's good to know...No other free DV content on Amazon that I can find, so I'm happy to blame it on the mastering. What a shame.
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post #6 of 19 Old 03-25-2017, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
On my new E6 (two weeks old now) I've been watching Bosch (via amazon prime streaming) seasons 1 and 2 (well, I'm only 4 eps into season 2) and I noticed something quite odd.

Season 1 is in UHD HDR, and season 2 is UHD DV. So, I was expecting season 2 to be ever so slightly better (if I could tell at all).

However, it's just the opposite.

Season 2 is displaying TONS of (chroma?) noise in dark areas. It's very obvious, and pretty distracting. It was bad enough that I went back to view an episode from season 1 to see if something had happened to my new TV. Nope, season 1 still looks great.

So, am I seeing:

1) a difference in DV settings on the TV (I tried changing a few things to see if I could clean it up, but nothing helped much).
2) a side effect of DV that one wouldn't otherwise expect?
3) evidence that season 2 was recorded with inferior cameras, or something else different about the way season 2 was recorded/compressed/delivered?

Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks.
-Kevin
I noticed the same during the weekend. Fortunately, I have a Roku Premiere Plus that has 4K HDR. Amazon App on this Roku plays Bosch 2 in HDR 10. Guess what, looks fantastic compared to the DV version of the same on the LG.
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post #7 of 19 Old 03-25-2017, 05:12 AM
 
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I always just chalked it up to being one of the first DV releases and not really knowing what they were doing. Alot of Amazon's first hdr titles were garbage imo.
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post #8 of 19 Old 09-04-2017, 09:10 AM
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Neither season 2 or season 3 are being streamed in Dolby Vision over here in the UK. My LG television only displays the standard 'HDR' logo

Is anybody in the UK able to confirm if there's any Dolby Vision content available for streaming over here?


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post #9 of 19 Old 12-08-2017, 04:08 PM
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Hi guys, I'm trying to figure out if there is an issue with my TCL P605 TV or with Roku or with Bosch: the colors in HDR 10 for both Bosch S2 and Goliath are completely washed out / muted, vs vibrant in standard 1080p/non-HDR. How did the colors come out for you and what TV do you have?



(another TCL owner has the same issue, but some other HDR 10 content on Amazon has vibrant colors like Mad Dogs and The Grand Tour)
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-15-2017, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe Berry View Post
Hi guys, I'm trying to figure out if there is an issue with my TCL P605 TV or with Roku or with Bosch: the colors in HDR 10 for both Bosch S2 and Goliath are completely washed out / muted, vs vibrant in standard 1080p/non-HDR. How did the colors come out for you and what TV do you have?



(another TCL owner has the same issue, but some other HDR 10 content on Amazon has vibrant colors like Mad Dogs and The Grand Tour)
It's been a week since your post and if you are like the rest of us TCL P series users, you are probably seeing all HDR10 content from Amazon Video is now washed out and lacking any tone mapping using the internal Amazon Video app. Some have reported that using an external device that supports HDR still displays content as expected on the set, but not with the internal Amazon Video app. It may be a coincidence, but it seems like all HDR10 content on Amazon became 'washed out' on TCL HDR capable sets the day that they announced that their entire HDR10 catalog of content has now been upgraded to support HDR10+ Dynamic Tone Mapping on select Samsung 2017 model TV's.

A number of us TCL users have been providing system and app version information to Roku in the Roku Forum support thread that was started a few weeks back. If you are now experiencing the same issue, it could be helpful if you visited the thread and provided your information as well. https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109487
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-16-2017, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blade005 View Post
It's been a week since your post and if you are like the rest of us TCL P series users, you are probably seeing all HDR10 content from Amazon Video is now washed out and lacking any tone mapping using the internal Amazon Video app. Some have reported that using an external device that supports HDR still displays content as expected on the set, but not with the internal Amazon Video app. It may be a coincidence, but it seems like all HDR10 content on Amazon became 'washed out' on TCL HDR capable sets the day that they announced that their entire HDR10 catalog of content has now been upgraded to support HDR10+ Dynamic Tone Mapping on select Samsung 2017 model TV's.

A number of us TCL users have been providing system and app version information to Roku in the Roku Forum support thread that was started a few weeks back. If you are now experiencing the same issue, it could be helpful if you visited the thread and provided your information as well. https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=109487
I just started to watch Bosch season 1 HDR and it is unwatchable ON TCL. Had to switch to my apple tv 4th gen HD, looks so much better in standard HD. Is this a TCL or AMAZON issue?
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-16-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
I just started to watch Bosch season 1 HDR and it is unwatchable ON TCL. Had to switch to my apple tv 4th gen HD, looks so much better in standard HD. Is this a TCL or AMAZON issue?
Hard to say for sure. But, it seems like on the day that Amazon announced (Dec. 13th) all HDR content on Amazon Prime is now HDR10+ Dynamic Tone Mapping capable is the day that a lot of TCL users started to noticed that all HDR10 content via internal Amazon Video app on TCL Roku sets are now lacking any tone mapping and washing out the HDR picture.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-25-2018, 07:32 AM
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I have a Sony 940D. Using the opening of the first episode of season one as an example, which is very dark, the 4k HDR image has elevated blacks. I tried it on my sets internal app and on an 4k Apple TV. The same issue with both, elevated blacks. As a comparison I used the Amazon App on my PS4 Pro, which doesn't support 4K. The 2k image has a superior black level which greatly improves overall contrast. I don't see this on other HDR content providers, like Netflix, where the HDR programing looks great. So my settings aren't the issue. Just on Amazon and with all their HDR programing, not just Bosch. Finally, I see the same problem on my LG OLED.


If you haven't compared the 2k image of Bosch to the 4K HDR, please do and let us know what you see.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-27-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I always just chalked it up to being one of the first DV releases and not really knowing what they were doing. Alot of Amazon's first hdr titles were garbage imo.
^^^^ This.

Some of the Amazon HDR10 stuff is just nasty.
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-27-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
^^^^ This.

Some of the Amazon HDR10 stuff is just nasty.

It may be an individual programing issue. Have you found one where the HDR image is top notch?
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-27-2018, 08:55 AM
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It may be an individual programing issue. Have you found one where the HDR image is top notch?

Check out Mad Dogs. I thought this shows looked spectacular on Amazon in HDR10. This and the first season of Man in the High Castle, The Grand Tour, and The Last Tycoon. All look pretty good to me.

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post #17 of 19 Old 01-27-2018, 12:17 PM
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Bosche season 1 was botched in the grading. The blacks are all screwed up. I found lowering my brightness by about 20 clicks corrected it (not backlight).
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-28-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Gillietalls View Post
Check out Mad Dogs. I thought this shows looked spectacular on Amazon in HDR10. This and the first season of Man in the High Castle, The Grand Tour, and The Last Tycoon. All look pretty good to me.
The Man in The High Castle? Oh - I thought that Series 1 of that was some of the worst HDR I'd seen. It's my go to show to explain how to do it badly...

I think they must be going for an 'effect'. Personally I want HDR to look like SDR but with more detail in the highlights (and lowlights if possible without sitting up the blacks). MITHC looked very extreme, with regular 'bright' bits of the scene being pushed to be too bright (rather than just speculars etc.), and the grading choices they made do the VFX no favours IMO.

Grading is very subjective though - what some people like, other people hate. I tend to gravitate towards drama where the pictures don't look hyper-processed. (The 'orange and teal' look does nothing for me...)

Last edited by sneals2000; 01-28-2018 at 04:56 AM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-28-2018, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Bosche season 1 was botched in the grading. The blacks are all screwed up. I found lowering my brightness by about 20 clicks corrected it (not backlight).

Thanks to the comments here I've learned that the problems with HDR programing on Amazon are, in fact, content specific. As Gillietalls suggested, I looked at Mad Dogs. It looks great, nothing like Bosch. With Bosch you can improve the HDR image with special settings, but no matter what you do the black level, and overall contrast, will never match the 2k image.


I tend to believe that TMITHC looks mediocre. Perhaps because of a rather subdued color palette and lighting choices. Compare it to Godless on Netflix and you'll see what I mean.
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