PC to HDR TV: RGB Full 8 bpc vs YCbCr422 10 bpc? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 71 Old 01-17-2017, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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PC to HDR TV: RGB Full 8 bpc vs YCbCr422 10 bpc?

Hello everyone. I am new to these forums, so apologies in advance if I posted in the wrong subforum. I was referred here by EVGA as they said this is the best place to ask questions regarding anything A/V.

I recently bought an LG OLEDB6P that I am using as a PC monitor for my GTX 1080 rig. This is an HDR10 TV, capable of a full dynamic range, Chroma 4:4:4, and a 10 bpc output color depth. I understand, however, that due to signal limitations with HDMI 2, one must either choose between 4K/60 @ 4:4:4 8 bpc or 4K/60 @ 4:2:2 10 bpc.

To my knowledge, HDR affects color space as well, despite the emphasis on dynamic range. And this is where I get confused. What would provide me with a better viewing experience overall?

If I set the NVIDIA control panel to RGB Full, I am able to view test patterns from 0-255 just fine. The brightness and contrast look great! However, I am limited to 8 bpc. Is that not crippling to HDR and "deep color"?

If I set the NVIDIA control panel to YCbCr422, I am able to use 10 bpc. However, the dynamic range is defaulted to limited, and test patterns do not display blacks below 17 and whites above 233. Is that not also crippling to HDR? It seems sort of an oxymoron to play high dynamic range content whilst being capped at a limited dynamic range. I do remember seeing a poster in another thread say that video is "always" coded between 17-233, but wasn't sure if he meant HDR as well.

The other confusing part is that when I turn HDMI ULTRA HD DEEP COLOR off for this input, the control panel defaults to YCbCr420. However, when I turn on HDMI ULTRA HD DEEP COLOR, the control panel defaults to RGB FULL 8 bpc. But why would the dynamic range see the improvement from turning on this color feature, and not the actual output color depth?

I am certain that this TV can display both a 10 bit color output and a full dynamic range. However, I am uncertain how to achieve both at the same time. If I can, can someone help me achieve RGB Full 10 bpc, I would greatly appreciate it! If not, can someone clarify the better choice between: a 16+ million colors, but a 0-255 dynamic range; or 1 billion+ colors but a 17-255 dynamic range?

Thank you.

James
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post #2 of 71 Old 01-17-2017, 11:45 AM
 
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The problem there is Windows' fault, because the 10 bits per pixel that you're sending over YCbCr 422 isn't HDR10, it's SDR10.

YCbCrb is always limited range, AFAIK. But HDR10 expands the range by 10x so losing a bit in the blacks and whites is fine. It gets expanded out by the TV in the end.

HDR10 could have signal values below 64 as black (or blacker than black) whereas SDR-8 would have the same blacker than black value as 16 or under. (10-bit = 1024 values, 8-bit = 256 values). So to convert from 8-bit to 10-bit just multiply the value by 4.

Windows 10 is getting new explicit HDR support soon so I'd wait for that. HDR PC Games should automatically switch to the right mode to talk to your TV, so you can safely leave your desktop in 8-bit mode which should also be sharper because it's in RGB or 444 and thus full chroma res which makes 1-pixel wide content like window edges and text sharper. I wouldn't try to use HDR on windows desktop, at least until Windows 10 supports it officially. (spring update coming soon).

1 billion colours is just another way of saying 10-bit, and the actual dynamic range isn't 4x as high as 8-bit, but rather 10x as high, because PQ or ST.2084 specifies that HDR10's peak white is 1000 nits whereas SDR is 100 nits, so 10x more dynamic range in the signal, because it uses a different EOTF (electro optical transfer function) curve. EOTFs are typically Gamma (a rough approximation to both how CRTs used to work and also coincidentally how human vision responds to light in the 0-100 nits range), PQ (perceptual quantizer, an optimized bit encoding for the logarithmic nature of human vision over a much wider range of luminance, 0-1000 or 0-10k nits), HlG (5000 nits, starts off where Gamma ends at 100 nits).

HDR10 is more than just "Deep Colour" (which is 30-bit or 36-bit or 48-bit, i.e. 10-, 12-, or 16- bits per colour channel), because "Deep Colour" is just basically the number of bits per colour, nothing more. It doesn't change the fact that the TV is still interpreting the video signal as Gamma-encoded values.

Bottom line : just switching your NVidia control panel to YCbCr 422 / 10-bit won't automatically engage HDR10 AFAIK, even on an HDR10 TV.

It needs the metadata to be sent as well and engaging that on the Windows desktop is (AFAIK) not something that's done automatically (yet, maybe post-update it will be).

Of course the TV might be able to force HDR10 mode but then everything would look off, since you'd be sending an SDR signal in ten bits and the TV would be using the wrong curve to interpret the signal (PQ instead of gamma).

There's a thread on this topic here on AVS in the HTPC gaming section I believe, so I'd go by what they say. I don't own an HDR TV but my projector supports 10-bit via YCbCr 422 at 1080p for 1 billion colours, however it's still just SDR.
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post #3 of 71 Old 01-17-2017, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
The problem there is Windows' fault, because the 10 bits per pixel that you're sending over YCbCr 422 isn't HDR10, it's SDR10.

YCbCrb is always limited range, AFAIK. But HDR10 expands the range by 10x so losing a bit in the blacks and whites is fine. It gets expanded out by the TV in the end.

HDR10 could have signal values below 64 as black (or blacker than black) whereas SDR-8 would have the same blacker than black value as 16 or under. (10-bit = 1024 values, 8-bit = 256 values). So to convert from 8-bit to 10-bit just multiply the value by 4.

Windows 10 is getting new explicit HDR support soon so I'd wait for that. HDR PC Games should automatically switch to the right mode to talk to your TV, so you can safely leave your desktop in 8-bit mode which should also be sharper because it's in RGB or 444 and thus full chroma res which makes 1-pixel wide content like window edges and text sharper. I wouldn't try to use HDR on windows desktop, at least until Windows 10 supports it officially. (spring update coming soon).

1 billion colours is just another way of saying 10-bit, and the actual dynamic range isn't 4x as high as 8-bit, but rather 10x as high, because PQ or ST.2084 specifies that HDR10's peak white is 1000 nits whereas SDR is 100 nits, so 10x more dynamic range in the signal, because it uses a different EOTF (electro optical transfer function) curve. EOTFs are typically Gamma (a rough approximation to both how CRTs used to work and also coincidentally how human vision responds to light in the 0-100 nits range), PQ (perceptual quantizer, an optimized bit encoding for the logarithmic nature of human vision over a much wider range of luminance, 0-1000 or 0-10k nits), HlG (5000 nits, starts off where Gamma ends at 100 nits).

HDR10 is more than just "Deep Colour" (which is 30-bit or 36-bit or 48-bit, i.e. 10-, 12-, or 16- bits per colour channel), because "Deep Colour" is just basically the number of bits per colour, nothing more. It doesn't change the fact that the TV is still interpreting the video signal as Gamma-encoded values.

Bottom line : just switching your NVidia control panel to YCbCr 422 / 10-bit won't automatically engage HDR10 AFAIK, even on an HDR10 TV.

It needs the metadata to be sent as well and engaging that on the Windows desktop is (AFAIK) not something that's done automatically (yet, maybe post-update it will be).

Of course the TV might be able to force HDR10 mode but then everything would look off, since you'd be sending an SDR signal in ten bits and the TV would be using the wrong curve to interpret the signal (PQ instead of gamma).

There's a thread on this topic here on AVS in the HTPC gaming section I believe, so I'd go by what they say. I don't own an HDR TV but my projector supports 10-bit via YCbCr 422 at 1080p for 1 billion colours, however it's still just SDR.
Thank you for your explanation. I do remember seeing something both from Nvidia and Windows that they had HDR in the works, and that you could tinker around if you had the Nvidia SDK and were a member of the Windows Early Access Program. I figured that simply meant that the OS features would support HDR, and that it wouldn't limit the capability of my GPU to TV.

I'm very happy to know that there's nothing wrong with my equipment!
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post #4 of 71 Old 01-18-2017, 06:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Barrett View Post
Hello everyone. I am new to these forums, so apologies in advance if I posted in the wrong subforum. I was referred here by EVGA as they said this is the best place to ask questions regarding anything A/V.

I recently bought an LG OLEDB6P that I am using as a PC monitor for my GTX 1080 rig. This is an HDR10 TV, capable of a full dynamic range, Chroma 4:4:4, and a 10 bpc output color depth. I understand, however, that due to signal limitations with HDMI 2, one must either choose between 4K/60 @ 4:4:4 8 bpc or 4K/60 @ 4:2:2 10 bpc.

To my knowledge, HDR affects color space as well, despite the emphasis on dynamic range. And this is where I get confused. What would provide me with a better viewing experience overall?

If I set the NVIDIA control panel to RGB Full, I am able to view test patterns from 0-255 just fine. The brightness and contrast look great! However, I am limited to 8 bpc. Is that not crippling to HDR and "deep color"?

If I set the NVIDIA control panel to YCbCr422, I am able to use 10 bpc. However, the dynamic range is defaulted to limited, and test patterns do not display blacks below 17 and whites above 233. Is that not also crippling to HDR? It seems sort of an oxymoron to play high dynamic range content whilst being capped at a limited dynamic range. I do remember seeing a poster in another thread say that video is "always" coded between 17-233, but wasn't sure if he meant HDR as well.

The other confusing part is that when I turn HDMI ULTRA HD DEEP COLOR off for this input, the control panel defaults to YCbCr420. However, when I turn on HDMI ULTRA HD DEEP COLOR, the control panel defaults to RGB FULL 8 bpc. But why would the dynamic range see the improvement from turning on this color feature, and not the actual output color depth?

I am certain that this TV can display both a 10 bit color output and a full dynamic range. However, I am uncertain how to achieve both at the same time. If I can, can someone help me achieve RGB Full 10 bpc, I would greatly appreciate it! If not, can someone clarify the better choice between: a 16+ million colors, but a 0-255 dynamic range; or 1 billion+ colors but a 17-255 dynamic range?

Thank you.

James
It's not normal.

You should be able to see all the white.

When you set Nvidia in 4:2:2, you need to also go in video color setting and in the advanced tab put the dynamic range to LIMITED.

If you still can't see all white bar (after tweaking the TV contrast value), tell me what player are you using.

I also have the B6 and also use 4:2:2 at 12 bits and I can see the whiter than white value.
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post #5 of 71 Old 01-20-2017, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebecker View Post
It's not normal.

You should be able to see all the white.

When you set Nvidia in 4:2:2, you need to also go in video color setting and in the advanced tab put the dynamic range to LIMITED.

If you still can't see all white bar (after tweaking the TV contrast value), tell me what player are you using.

I also have the B6 and also use 4:2:2 at 12 bits and I can see the whiter than white value.
Selecting any YCbCr option defaults to LIMITED RGB..... because it's not RGB and thus has no limit. The numbers and terms used to reference this really should change to avoid confusion.
Only RGB can be "full"... Heh, how about Fat -vs- Lean RGB. Pick your diet and stick to it, lol.
@Quebecker :
Also, I'd recomend setting your Icon Mode for the HDMI input for your pc to... well, "PC". This is the only way to have more than 4:2:0 input chroma (so 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 support).
Use can use THIS IMAGE from Madshi to check effective chroma. I have a post somewhere on here that better explains how to use this image.


For Nvidia users (may not apply to others): If you set your video card to YCbCr, be sure to set things like MadVR to 0-255 PC levels.
The videocard (driver?) will continue to work and process everything in full RGB mode. The option you choose here, RGB Full/Limited or YCbCr, will only be used after processing to convert the signal to whatever you choose when the signal is finally sent out to the display.

If YCbCr, "Limited" also applies to the desktop, so there's no need to "force" it with registry tweaks like we used too when the desktop took the signal from the video card to mix in overlays (which converted back to full RGB for mixing and then sent as full rgb to display....)

Durante (GeDoSaTo, DSFix, other goodies) and Madshi (notably MadVR) both have tools to force this via registry. This may still be needed for those outside of Windows 10.

@James Barrett :
I have the E6, and you might have seen all the rambling I've done in the Calibration thread for these displays. I shant give you any advice, but I'll give you my opinion
As you noticed, DEEP COLOR is changing the EDID seen by the computer. You should leave deep color enabled because as you noticed it has the better display options without having to resort to EDID overrides or custom resolutions. Think of the EDID like any preset picture mode. Deep color off EDID = VIVID mode (and we all know that's mostly showroom floor crap and to avoid like the plague lol).

Set your Input Icon to "PC", as mentioned above. Using this mode also has low input latency, so you can use PC Icon mode with either ISF picture modes. This gives you low input latency with calibration controls. If you don't calibrate, you can at least get a proper Warm2 color temperature unlike Game picture modes (still need more red even at w50!)

You only get more than 8-bit color depth while in exclusive fullscreen mode. You won't have this on the desktop, you won't get this in borderless fullscreen games...
Really annoying. I'm hoping that HDR windows feature will address this, or at least make it more obvious so more people complain and they finally address this issue.

Personally, I'm at [email protected], YCbCr4:2:2 12-bit.
At this resolution I don't really feel the chroma resolution of 4:4:4 is needed. That's not to say I can't see that it's missing. I do, but it's not nearly as bad as it was at 1920x1080 or even worse when even lower. You can always just change between bit depths as needed.
It should be noted that you can't have [email protected] in 10/12 bits, it a limitation of current HDMI bandwidth. Another reason I use what I do as a compromise.

As for RGB vs YCbCr, read what I mentioned above for Nvidia users.
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post #6 of 71 Old 03-22-2017, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze_Ice View Post
Selecting any YCbCr option defaults to LIMITED RGB..... because it's not RGB and thus has no limit. The numbers and terms used to reference this really should change to avoid confusion.
Only RGB can be "full"... Heh, how about Fat -vs- Lean RGB. Pick your diet and stick to it, lol.
@Quebecker :
Also, I'd recomend setting your Icon Mode for the HDMI input for your pc to... well, "PC". This is the only way to have more than 4:2:0 input chroma (so 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 support).
Use can use THIS IMAGE from Madshi to check effective chroma. I have a post somewhere on here that better explains how to use this image.


For Nvidia users (may not apply to others): If you set your video card to YCbCr, be sure to set things like MadVR to 0-255 PC levels.
The videocard (driver?) will continue to work and process everything in full RGB mode. The option you choose here, RGB Full/Limited or YCbCr, will only be used after processing to convert the signal to whatever you choose when the signal is finally sent out to the display.

If YCbCr, "Limited" also applies to the desktop, so there's no need to "force" it with registry tweaks like we used too when the desktop took the signal from the video card to mix in overlays (which converted back to full RGB for mixing and then sent as full rgb to display....)

Durante (GeDoSaTo, DSFix, other goodies) and Madshi (notably MadVR) both have tools to force this via registry. This may still be needed for those outside of Windows 10.

@James Barrett :
I have the E6, and you might have seen all the rambling I've done in the Calibration thread for these displays. I shant give you any advice, but I'll give you my opinion
As you noticed, DEEP COLOR is changing the EDID seen by the computer. You should leave deep color enabled because as you noticed it has the better display options without having to resort to EDID overrides or custom resolutions. Think of the EDID like any preset picture mode. Deep color off EDID = VIVID mode (and we all know that's mostly showroom floor crap and to avoid like the plague lol).

Set your Input Icon to "PC", as mentioned above. Using this mode also has low input latency, so you can use PC Icon mode with either ISF picture modes. This gives you low input latency with calibration controls. If you don't calibrate, you can at least get a proper Warm2 color temperature unlike Game picture modes (still need more red even at w50!)

You only get more than 8-bit color depth while in exclusive fullscreen mode. You won't have this on the desktop, you won't get this in borderless fullscreen games...
Really annoying. I'm hoping that HDR windows feature will address this, or at least make it more obvious so more people complain and they finally address this issue.

Personally, I'm at [email protected], YCbCr4:2:2 12-bit.
At this resolution I don't really feel the chroma resolution of 4:4:4 is needed. That's not to say I can't see that it's missing. I do, but it's not nearly as bad as it was at 1920x1080 or even worse when even lower. You can always just change between bit depths as needed.
It should be noted that you can't have [email protected] in 10/12 bits, it a limitation of current HDMI bandwidth. Another reason I use what I do as a compromise.

As for RGB vs YCbCr, read what I mentioned above for Nvidia users.
I've been searching for this info, and you have detailed it and laid it all out nicely. Thank You!!!

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I would just use RGB / 444 in 8-bit for windows desktop and let HDR-capable games run in fullscreen to enable 10-bit or 12-bit 422 mode.

Games have been using different res than windows desktop for 20+ years, and seeing HDR on windows desktop isn't all that important IMO (I say this as a huge HDR fan).

HDR10 mode on windows desktop should be activated in the next windows update, but having to drop to 422 all the time to access 10-bit colour isn't worth it.

Of course you could just use a larger font size / DPI scaling with anti-aliased fonts and the lower chroma res is pretty moot too. Up to you. Either way, official windows support for desktop-based HDR matters far less than games + media player HDR support. It's like, whoo, my windows icons are super awesome now. Don't care.
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
I would just use RGB / 444 in 8-bit for windows desktop and let HDR-capable games run in fullscreen to enable 10-bit or 12-bit 422 mode.



Games have been using different res than windows desktop for 20+ years, and seeing HDR on windows desktop isn't all that important IMO (I say this as a huge HDR fan).



HDR10 mode on windows desktop should be activated in the next windows update, but having to drop to 422 all the time to access 10-bit colour isn't worth it.



Of course you could just use a larger font size / DPI scaling with anti-aliased fonts and the lower chroma res is pretty moot too. Up to you. Either way, official windows support for desktop-based HDR matters far less than games + media player HDR support. It's like, whoo, my windows icons are super awesome now. Don't care.


At 4k on my 75" at 7.5 feet I still like display scale at 150% with clear type. Maybe at 4 feet and 75" you can do 100% and 4;4:4 matters

With display scaling and clear type I leave it at 4:2:2. Creators update let's one play HDR content right in Windows

Although the new powerDVD for uhd does not support Dolby vision!!


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So in terms of bandwidth, how low on refresh do we need to go (and see if it sync) to get 4:4:4 4k on traditional hdmi 2.0a? We know 50hz won't work, 24hz will. So is that math just 4x4x4x resolution in total pixels X frame rate?


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48hz should do 10-bit in 444 or RGB, in theory. But it will flicker.
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post #11 of 71 Old 03-27-2017, 02:03 PM
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I have been running at 50hz since on my 1080 it's way easier to stay locked at 50vs 60. 50 I don't notice the flicker




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HDR Windows 10 Desktop

Hi guys,

I am probably one of the first to get this. I already have the creator update through the insider slow ring, and I just updated to the new Nvidia driver as well (for the titan and creators upate support). HDR IS WORKING! I got very excited. Movies are playing in BT2020 now in exclusive full screen, with the tv recognizing an HDR signal.

A few caveats though. For some reason while HDR is enabled in windows settings, my colors are washed out on the windows desktop. Anything that has the BT2020 spectrum is also washed out until I go exclusive full screen. Even content that is not HDR when full screen is being interpreted as HDR content (QP filtering as opposed to gamma in SDR).

So my question is what settings, or what things do I need to do to get windows to show colors properly in HDR mode for SDR sources? Windows itself is even showing incorrectly until I switch back to SDR mode...

Some information for you on my setup: Sabertooth X99 build, ASUS Strix 1070 video card, (yesterdays latest driver), Windows 10 running creators update build in the slow ring, unfortunately I can't quote build numbers as I am not near that computer currently). I am using HDMI 2.0a (or whatever the latest standard is). My tv is a Samsung 55B6P OLED UHD TV with full support for 4K - 60Hz @ chroma 4:4:4 (though this is argued as to whether it can actually do 4K 60 and not 4K 30), see this review for specs: "ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6". My control panel and tv settings are also part of this mystery. Not sure what to set Nvidia CP to. It's native 10 bit, and HDR requires 10-bit. So I would think you would go 2160p, 60Hz, 10 bit, and YUV 4:4:4 in the settings. If anyone has a different opinion let me know. I do end up with some weird Hues depending on my choice of color, and I can't recall which resulted in a normal, but washed out look). Any input or recommendations would help me get this set up properly. It won't be fun to have to manually switch HDR on and off. Though perhaps I can shut off HDR in windows, but as long as I put a video or game exclusive fullscreen if it supports HDR, it will render? I'll have to check tonight and let you guys know. Apologies for the ramble. Just thinking out loud.
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2160p, 60Hz, 10 bit, and 4:4:4 its not possible at this moment . Because The Bandwidth Limitations Of HDMI 2.0 only 18 Gbit/s . You need more than 18 Gbit to do HDR 60Hz 10 bit and 4:4:4
try 2160p, 60Hz, 10 bit, and 4:2:2
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Originally Posted by alex8642 View Post
Hi guys,

I am probably one of the first to get this. I already have the creator update through the insider slow ring, and I just updated to the new Nvidia driver as well (for the titan and creators upate support). HDR IS WORKING! I got very excited. Movies are playing in BT2020 now in exclusive full screen, with the tv recognizing an HDR signal.

A few caveats though. For some reason while HDR is enabled in windows settings, my colors are washed out on the windows desktop. Anything that has the BT2020 spectrum is also washed out until I go exclusive full screen. Even content that is not HDR when full screen is being interpreted as HDR content (QP filtering as opposed to gamma in SDR).

So my question is what settings, or what things do I need to do to get windows to show colors properly in HDR mode for SDR sources? Windows itself is even showing incorrectly until I switch back to SDR mode...

Some information for you on my setup: Sabertooth X99 build, ASUS Strix 1070 video card, (yesterdays latest driver), Windows 10 running creators update build in the slow ring, unfortunately I can't quote build numbers as I am not near that computer currently). I am using HDMI 2.0a (or whatever the latest standard is). My tv is a Samsung 55B6P OLED UHD TV with full support for 4K - 60Hz @ chroma 4:4:4 (though this is argued as to whether it can actually do 4K 60 and not 4K 30), see this review for specs: "ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6". My control panel and tv settings are also part of this mystery. Not sure what to set Nvidia CP to. It's native 10 bit, and HDR requires 10-bit. So I would think you would go 2160p, 60Hz, 10 bit, and YUV 4:4:4 in the settings. If anyone has a different opinion let me know. I do end up with some weird Hues depending on my choice of color, and I can't recall which resulted in a normal, but washed out look). Any input or recommendations would help me get this set up properly. It won't be fun to have to manually switch HDR on and off. Though perhaps I can shut off HDR in windows, but as long as I put a video or game exclusive fullscreen if it supports HDR, it will render? I'll have to check tonight and let you guys know. Apologies for the ramble. Just thinking out loud.
I have similar setup, but OLED65B6P with NVidia GTX 1050. Windows Creator 64bit latest via fast ring with all updates and patches and Geforce driver ver. 381.65 from April 6 2017 - latest I can find. I too get HDR enabled in Windows settings and the TV does show the "HDR" logo in the upper right corner when switching from other sources to HDMI1 where I have my PC connected. But it's totally messed up - the contrast is waaay to high, to the point it's almost black and white, the colors look totally unnatural, video through Windows Media Player is very dark (both SDR and HDR) plus I get occasional flickers.

So, couple of questions:
1 How do you connect - directly from the VGA card to the TV (which port) or through AVR? If latter, which model? What HDMI cable and how long?
2. Are you running 32 or 64 bit Windows
3. What exact version is that "yesterdays latest driver" that you have and where did you download it from?
4. What media player are you using to play your videos? Have you tried playing the LG demo HDR clips like the Chess Demo or NASA UHD demo?
5. How do you know for sure videos are playing in BT2020? I do see an indication of HDR, but never about the color space
6. What firmware version is your TV running
7. Did you have to make any special settings other than the factory defaults in the TV? For example, is your deepcolor on or off?

Thanks in advance!
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post #15 of 71 Old 04-13-2017, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by stfn View Post
I have similar setup, but OLED65B6P with NVidia GTX 1050. Windows Creator 64bit latest via fast ring with all updates and patches and Geforce driver ver. 381.65 from April 6 2017 - latest I can find. I too get HDR enabled in Windows settings and the TV does show the "HDR" logo in the upper right corner when switching from other sources to HDMI1 where I have my PC connected. But it's totally messed up - the contrast is waaay to high, to the point it's almost black and white, the colors look totally unnatural, video through Windows Media Player is very dark (both SDR and HDR) plus I get occasional flickers.
So, couple of questions:
1 How do you connect - directly from the VGA card to the TV (which port) or through AVR? If latter, which model? What HDMI cable and how long?

I have a cable directly to the tv, and another cable directly to the AVR. Like a dual monitor setup. Worked best for maintaining 4K @ 60Hz and 5.1 surround. The cable I used is a "HDMI.ORG CERTIFIED CABLE." Any one will do but that did it over any other cable for me. You can get the one I got here: a.co/cyzmaD9

2. Are you running 32 or 64 bit Windows -

64 bit of course.

3. What exact version is that "yesterdays latest driver" that you have and where did you download it from?

381.65 - Geforce.com or geforce experience.

4. What media player are you using to play your videos? Have you tried playing the LG demo HDR clips like the Chess Demo or NASA UHD demo?

I love the chess demo for testing HDR. Works great on the tv.

I use MPC-HC with MadVR, with HDR data set to passthrough to the tv. There are numerous posts about using MadVR and MPC-HC for the best quality video. So far it is also the only one giving me options for HDR, such as providing your own 3lut files for shading.

5. How do you know for sure videos are playing in BT2020? I do see an indication of HDR, but never about the color space

Now, how you know your stream is BT.2020 (The source files I use are BT2020 encoded, but any encode is fine, though BT2020 is the most popular it seems) is when you watch it with the system set to SDR, but the settings in the media player set to HDR passthrough. It will appear washed out.

6. What firmware version is your TV running?

lg.com/us/support-product/lg-OLED55B6P#

Software_File(Version_04.31.15).zip

7. Did you have to make any special settings other than the factory defaults in the TV? For example, is your deepcolor on or off?

UltraHD Deep Color is enabled, and must be enabled for HDR to work. This review has great notes on setting your tv. I followed this guide when tweaking. However when the tv goes into HDR mode most of these settings are not applicable in HDR mode to my knowledge:

Color gamut - wide
Is a 10-bit native panel
Supports DCI-p3 and Rec 2020

INTERPOLATION WILL REDUCE SCREEN JUDDER

Judder-free 24p Show Help : Yes
Judder-free 24p via 60p Show Help : No
Judder-free 24p via 60i Show Help : No
To play 24p source material without judder, you need to activate 'RealCinema' option under 'Setting'→'Picture options'. Although inconsistent, for 60p and 60i sources set 'Trumotion' to user and set 'De-Judder' and 'De-Blur' to 0 to remove judder. It wasn't consistent enough for us to consider a pass though.

4k @ 60Hz with chroma 4:4:4 and HDR - not supported, with other sources quoting supported. Not sure on this one.

HDR10 Show Help : Yes
Dolby Vision Show Help : Yes
5.1 Passthrough ARC Dolby Digital Show Help : Yes
5.1 Passthrough ARC DTS Show Help : Yes
5.1 Passthrough Optical Dolby Digital Show Help : Yes
5.1 Passthrough Optical DTS Show Help : Yes
HDMI 2.0 Full Bandwith : Yes
ARC : Yes (HDMI 2)
USB 3 : Yes (1)
HDCP 2.2 : Yes
CEC : Yes
MHL : No
Variable Analog Audio Out : No

input lag:
Update 01/05/2017: With the newest firmware update (04.30.77) the input lag has been reduced across all resolutions. A 'HDR Game' picture mode has been added, and the input lag no longer cycles over time. The results above have been updated.

Update 02/07/2017: Note that in the 'HDR Game' picture mode there is some screen tearing in the bottom 1/4inch of the display. This does not affect the other picture modes.

Update 03/06/2017: Retested the B6 with the latest firmware update (04.31.10) and the screen tearing issue in 'HDR Game' picture mode is now fixed. Input lag remained the same as with the previous update

ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6

It would turn out that in order to watch SDR content, I do need to force windows to turn off HDR. Another interesting finding is that once you disable HDR, re-enabling it results in a washed out screen again. While fullscreen exclusive apps do not appear to be effected by this (Nvidia Control Panel quite correctly specifies the app controls the display settings), I did need to reboot in order for HDR to function semi-properly in windows. I think there is yet some tweaking left to do to get HDR to work properly with windows 10.

My conclusion: Enable HDR when watching HDR content full screen exclusively with MPC-HC and MadVR tweaked for HDR Passthrough.

Disable HDR for everything else, and reboot if the screen still seems washed out.

For gaming, it should work already.

NOTE: EXCLUSIVE FULLSCREEN means NOT borderless. Please google if you do not understand the difference.
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post #16 of 71 Old 04-14-2017, 02:33 AM
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Can I enable HDR without Vga card (using iGPU) ?
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post #17 of 71 Old 04-14-2017, 04:09 AM
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Hello,
I need a bit help with my settings. I am using 381.65, Creators update, GPU gtx1080 with samsung ks7500. What is the best setting for me: RGB with 8 bpc (limited/full?), YCbCr444 8 bpc, YCbCr422 12 bpc or YCbCr420 12 bpc... Because when I use default color settings television write HDR is playing, but the windows became very "dark" only HDR films looks a bit better (I use MPC with madVR).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vojta272 View Post
Hello,
I need a bit help with my settings. I am using 381.65, Creators update, GPU gtx1080 with samsung ks7500. What is the best setting for me: RGB with 8 bpc (limited/full?), YCbCr444 8 bpc, YCbCr422 12 bpc or YCbCr420 12 bpc... Because when I use default color settings television write HDR is playing, but the windows became very "dark" only HDR films looks a bit better (I use MPC with madVR).
YCbCr422 12 bpc .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex8642 View Post
Another interesting finding is that once you disable HDR, re-enabling it results in a washed out screen again. While fullscreen exclusive apps do not appear to be effected by this (Nvidia Control Panel quite correctly specifies the app controls the display settings), I did need to reboot in order for HDR to function semi-properly in windows. I think there is yet some tweaking left to do to get HDR to work properly with windows 10.

My conclusion: Enable HDR when watching HDR content full screen exclusively with MPC-HC and MadVR tweaked for HDR Passthrough.

Disable HDR for everything else, and reboot if the screen still seems washed out.

For gaming, it should work already.

NOTE: EXCLUSIVE FULLSCREEN means NOT borderless. Please google if you do not understand the difference.

Hi, can you test with the following method please?

Quote:
. On the tv, the HDR will not show correctly if the input is set to "pc". It is very washed out. If set to game or any of the others, the HDR shows correctly.
With an LG 9500, GTX970, MPC-HC and MadVR set to "HDR passthrough" then my desktop looks ok and the HDR LG Chess Demo also looks ok.
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To my knowledge as stated previously I think; HDR mode on my tv is a separate mode to that of "PC" or "Game." Any of the options I had for filtering and such are gone. It only shows 3 modes. HDR standard, HDR bright, and HDR Vivid.
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post #21 of 71 Old 04-17-2017, 03:33 PM
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To my knowledge as stated previously I think; HDR mode on my tv is a separate mode to that of "PC" or "Game." Any of the options I had for filtering and such are gone. It only shows 3 modes. HDR standard, HDR bright, and HDR Vivid.
I thought you had an LG - it should be the same to my 2015 LG Oled 9500.

I am talking about the input icon setting - you know, choosing between TV, Cable, PC, Console inputs.

Change your HTPC input via the LG launcher from a PC icon to anything else e.g Game Console. This will stop Windows 10 desktop being washed out and make HDR video look ok.

However, using the black clipping calibration file with these settings doesn't look right - whilst my calibrated picture mode only flashes 17 and up, it seems that HDR on is picking up or enhancing the bars below 17. They don't flash but they are just about visible - I assume it's because HDR defaults to 12bpc colour and previously I was on 8bpc.

I will try and take a screenshot but in the meantime try changing the input icons on your TV

Last edited by famasfilms; 04-17-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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post #22 of 71 Old 04-17-2017, 03:48 PM
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Tried it. Still washed out on the desktop, and upon reboot I'm actually still getting the same thing. Used to be too colorful. Reds too deep to be more specific. Orange would appear as red. If I force changes in the nvidia control panel, Chroma 4:4:4 in 12 bit will make everything appear green. 10 bit is washed out, same with 8 bit. Rgb 8 bit appears yellow and red. RGB in 12 bit is washed out instead of green. In all cases of chess looks washed out UNLESS in exclusive full screen, from then forward looks perfect.
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In all cases of chess looks washed out UNLESS in exclusive full screen, from then forward looks perfect.
yeah this is happening on all my files - SDR and HDR alike. Everything is too bright/washed out until going full screen

But regarding the desktop, the difference with the input toggle on "PC" and anything else is night and day - PC much too saturated.

I would suggest adjusting your picture mode colour settings to get the desktop how you like it, but I'm not yet convinced that leaving HDR on is the way forward.
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post #24 of 71 Old 04-17-2017, 08:55 PM
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Anyone figure out a custom 48hz that might push 4:4:4 10bit? I can't get 48 to sync (working from.50)

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post #25 of 71 Old 04-30-2017, 07:13 PM
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So I just updated to Windows 10 creators, and I have an LG OLED55E6P display.

When I enable HDR in Windows display settings, the image becomes very dimm and washed out. This will disable color settings in Nvidia CP.

When I disable Windows HDR, and use the Nvidia CP to select RGB Full 8bpc (this is what I was using before the update), the image is bright and vibrant. Which one is suppose to be better?

Before Windows 10 Creators, when I launched a game the HDR icon from the TV would appear. After the Creatore Update, that will not occur unless I am using the Windows 10 HDR option, but then the image is very dimm and washed out.
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post #26 of 71 Old 05-01-2017, 04:00 AM
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OK I fixed this by rolling back to 378.92 drivers. Now I can use RGB Full in Nvidia CP and games will still automatically use HDR when launched, so it is not washed out and dimmed like when using 381.89.

Nvidia need to get onto this.
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post #27 of 71 Old 05-04-2017, 12:12 AM
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YCbCr422 12 bpc .
But, for gaming this is not performance friendly rite? When I use 4:2:2 12bps I have about 20fps less than 4:2:2 10bpc in MEA. Is it the same for you guys?
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post #28 of 71 Old 05-04-2017, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by famasfilms View Post
With an LG 9500, GTX970, MPC-HC and MadVR set to "HDR passthrough" then my desktop looks ok and the HDR LG Chess Demo also looks ok.
Hmm I use sli 970's MPC HC and madVR in win 8.1 set to hdr passthrough and I can't play any of those LG or demo files, they are all choppy as hell when they play back. But any real HDR content play fine.

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post #29 of 71 Old 06-02-2017, 12:41 AM
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I'm new to this thread, but just figured out that I needed to have my HTPC into CBL/SAT on my Onkyo to get HDR signal. Now everything seems darker and dull. I'm trying to figure out which setting is best for my NVIDIA control panel/Windows 10 HTPC.

Win 10 pro 15063.332 64 bit
NVIDIA ver. 382.333
Connected to OLED55B6P via HDMI 2 (ARC) as home theater

Which color mode preset should I use? Right now everything only shows in HDR through my HTPC. I do not have access to the other ISF day/night or Cinema modes on my OLED55B6P which I had already calibrated.

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
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post #30 of 71 Old 06-02-2017, 12:45 AM
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I should say that I am watching a lot of content on PotPlayer with madVR low end GPU presets from LAV filters megamix
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