HDR10+ Debuts on Amazon Prime Video & Samsung 2017 UHD TVs - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 1137 Old 04-11-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
implementing hdr is not as easy as people think. there are hardware limitations not foreseen.

take this for example. apparently even Dolby Vision is having issues with implementing on 1st gen DV tvs. early DV tvs can't be updated to support current versions of DV. read this new article by FlatpanelsHD highlighting the issues.


https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1554791122
It doesn't matter, any 2016 model will still have DV support uninterrupted.

Dolby has added 16 additional trim pass features, many displays may not have enough horsepower to process those trim pass features. But, DV support will remain.

Samsung will definitely continue to modify and rebuild HDR10+ to give content creators more tools to make sure the original HDR grade comes out on + enabled displays. Which may mean, current Samsung, Panasonic, Philip displays may not have the horsepower to process, but remain backwards compatible.

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post #1112 of 1137 Old 04-12-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
https://www.4kfilme.de/sony-unterstuetzt-heimlich-hdr



have Sony tvs been secretly using hdr10+?
Universal adopting HDR10+, supports this. All they need now is Paramount, and LG will have no choice but to adopt it as well.

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post #1113 of 1137 Old 04-28-2019, 05:16 AM
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Did anyone try to chat with Amazon online support regarding HDR10+ real availability? Since I live abroad and have a local subscription, the chat support is terrible when you get into technical questions..

Sent while surfing
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post #1114 of 1137 Old 04-29-2019, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
https://www.4kfilme.de/sony-unterstuetzt-heimlich-hdr

have Sony tvs been secretly using hdr10+?
The proof pic only shows the input signal which is HDR10+, doesn't say what output HDR its getting. Ray, do we have any other news or updates on the A9F getting HDR10+?
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post #1115 of 1137 Old 05-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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Has anybody confirmed that HDR10 + even works? Samsung I think only shows a badge for HDR. Nothing on amazon is listed as HDR much less HDR 10+. I just play prime videos through the native app and just assume it's HDR10+, but I have no way of actually knowing.
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post #1116 of 1137 Old 05-07-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tygeezy View Post
Has anybody confirmed that HDR10 + even works? Samsung I think only shows a badge for HDR. Nothing on amazon is listed as HDR much less HDR 10+. I just play prime videos through the native app and just assume it's HDR10+, but I have no way of actually knowing.
Yes, new 2018/2019 do have an HDR10+ badge on prime

If you do not, then you don't have HDR10+

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post #1117 of 1137 Old 05-07-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r View Post
Yes, new 2018/2019 do have an HDR10+ badge on prime

If you do not, then you don't have HDR10+

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I have a 2018 samsung q6fn. Unfortunately I can't pull up badge information on the native app. I can for my apple tv4k, but apple tv doesn't support HDR10 +. I guess I could get a firestick... That way I can get Atmos and hdr 10+ since I can't pass atmos through arc.
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post #1118 of 1137 Old 05-09-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
The proof pic only shows the input signal which is HDR10+, doesn't say what output HDR its getting. Ray, do we have any other news or updates on the A9F getting HDR10+?

The info for input only shows dynamic Metadata if the connected TV is capable.
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post #1119 of 1137 Old 05-09-2019, 09:24 PM
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Vincent Teoh purchased 2 copies of Robin Hood. He's finally gonna do the hdr10+ vs DV comparison, I believe on 2 identical tvs that can display both.
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post #1120 of 1137 Old 05-10-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
The proof pic only shows the input signal which is HDR10+, doesn't say what output HDR its getting. Ray, do we have any other news or updates on the A9F getting HDR10+?

The info for input only shows dynamic Metadata if the connected TV is capable.
Or you can be playing an mkv or m2ts file with an HDR10+ layer and it'll still show the input as HDR10, which is what that website did. So it doesnt mean the TV is outputting HDR10+ or is capable of it. In the picture on that website, you can see up top, the file name as "Bohemian.Raphsody". Clearly a file being played and not a disc.

PS, I can easily replicate the same info page on my KS9800 with HDR10+. My KS (you used to have one too!) definitely doesnt have HDR10+. I'll post a pic later.
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post #1121 of 1137 Old 05-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
The proof pic only shows the input signal which is HDR10+, doesn't say what output HDR its getting. Ray, do we have any other news or updates on the A9F getting HDR10+?

The info for input only shows dynamic Metadata if the connected TV is capable.
As promised, here's playing Alien on my KS9800 with HDR10+ info. Thats precisely what the website did too.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13B7...w?usp=drivesdk
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post #1122 of 1137 Old 06-18-2019, 08:47 PM
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Yes, new 2018/2019 do have an HDR10+ badge on prime

If you do not, then you don't have HDR10+
Pardon me, but I'm new to this,

By "badge", do you mean a status indicator created and displayed by the TV or the HDR type label listed in the Amazon Prime program details?

As I understand it, while Amazon claims that the "HDR" label in the program details will change to HDR10+ or Dolby Vision if the TV supports one of those capabilities, no one has ever seen that label change in real life. Having said that, an Amazon rep on Twitter told me today that if the Amazon program details don't say HDR10+, then I am not getting HDR10+ content from them. And, of course, the Samsung 9QFN TV does not display any status info to tell me whether I am getting HDR10 or HDR10+.

I am using the TV's Amazon app, so there is no intermediate equipment between Amazon and the TV aside from the network path.
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post #1123 of 1137 Old 06-19-2019, 02:33 PM
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Pardon me, but I'm new to this,

By "badge", do you mean a status indicator created and displayed by the TV or the HDR type label listed in the Amazon Prime program details?

As I understand it, while Amazon claims that the "HDR" label in the program details will change to HDR10+ or Dolby Vision if the TV supports one of those capabilities, no one has ever seen that label change in real life. Having said that, an Amazon rep on Twitter told me today that if the Amazon program details don't say HDR10+, then I am not getting HDR10+ content from them. And, of course, the Samsung 9QFN TV does not display any status info to tell me whether I am getting HDR10 or HDR10+.

I am using the TV's Amazon app, so there is no intermediate equipment between Amazon and the TV aside from the network path.
Amazon's help and all their staff have been lying/wrong about this for about 3 years now! I did a mock-up of what Amazon claims will be shown (with the HDR10+ logo clearly visible in the programme details screen inside the Prime Video app) in >>> THIS POST <<< .

Get that twitter rep to send you a screenshot, from just ONE TV, which clearly shows the HDR10+ logo on that page. They won't be able to, because they are wrong. But keep asking, and they might admit they were making it up

Regardless of the logo, the current thinking is that it is HDR10+, but as you say, the problem is that there's no proof of it. When half of Amazon says that it isn't HDR10+ if there's no logo, they aren't doing themselves any favours

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post #1124 of 1137 Old 06-19-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Amazon's help and all their staff have been lying/wrong about this for about 3 years now! I did a mock-up of what Amazon claims will be shown (with the HDR10+ logo clearly visible in the programme details screen inside the Prime Video app) in >>> THIS POST <<< .

Get that twitter rep to send you a screenshot, from just ONE TV, which clearly shows the HDR10+ logo on that page. They won't be able to, because they are wrong. But keep asking, and they might admit they were making it up

Regardless of the logo, the current thinking is that it is HDR10+, but as you say, the problem is that there's no proof of it. When half of Amazon says that it isn't HDR10+ if there's no logo, they aren't doing themselves any favours
Yes, I saw that mockup when I was browsing this topic yesterday. I've been having an on-going private Twitter conversation with Amazon and Samsung customer service people. Believe me, Samsung reps are just as bad as Amazon. First they told me I have to enable HDR+ to get HDR10+ on my Q9FN and then later told me the TV doesn't even have HDR10+ capability.

In any case, you hit the nail on the head that there is no proof. The TV doesn't indicate when it is receiving an HDR10+ stream. If it did, this topic wouldn't be such an ongoing source of frustration. My last comment to the Samsung rep was about how much agony is being generated by the fact that the TV doesn't indicate HDR10+ and asked them to please fix it in a firmware update. I doubt that they ever will, though. High tech companies seem to shield their engineers from customer feedback.
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post #1125 of 1137 Old 06-19-2019, 03:55 PM
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To check if your Samsung TV is displaying HDR10+ whilst using the onboard Amazon Prime Video app, begin playback of one of their UHD titles then press the HOME button to summon the Smart Hub. Scroll to the left until you get to the QUICK SETTINGS menu, and the PICTURE MODE icon (third from the left) will identify the signal type being displayed. This works with the 2019 models, and has been reported to work (though I've yet to confirm it) on the higher-end 2018 sets. If you need proof, just ask one of the owners on any of the 2019 QLED threads to follow the directions in my post; for consistency, tell them to play "Jack Ryan" as the test title. That one often ramps up to full UHD the fastest amongst all of the Amazon Prime series.
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post #1126 of 1137 Old 06-19-2019, 05:06 PM
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To check if your Samsung TV is displaying HDR10+ whilst using the onboard Amazon Prime Video app, begin playback of one of their UHD titles then press the HOME button to summon the Smart Hub. Scroll to the left until you get to the QUICK SETTINGS menu, and the PICTURE MODE icon (third from the left) will identify the signal type being displayed. This works with the 2019 models, and has been reported to work (though I've yet to confirm it) on the higher-end 2018 sets. If you need proof, just ask one of the owners on any of the 2019 QLED threads to follow the directions in my post; for consistency, tell them to play "Jack Ryan" as the test title. That one often ramps up to full UHD the fastest amongst all of the Amazon Prime series.
It displays "HDR". I've heard that 2019 TVs show HDR10+ for 4K HDR content like the Jack Ryan series, but the 2018 Q9FN just says HDR. And, yes, I waited for it to get to UHD before I checked. I've also been posting in the Q9FN owners thread and they are all well aware of this shortcoming. It would be great if Samsung fixed it in an update, but no one is holding their breath. Several people have assured me that Amazon is delivering HDR10+ content to Q9FN TVs, but the TV provides no means to prove it.
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post #1127 of 1137 Old 06-19-2019, 09:39 PM
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As promised, here's playing Alien on my KS9800 with HDR10+ info. Thats precisely what the website did too.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13B7...w?usp=drivesdk
is this from the Samsung 4k Blu Ray player?

75Q9FN*55C8oled* Oppo 203/UB820*S10+*DenonX4200

75Q9FN*55C8OLED*Galaxy S10+ *Ub820 fed into Oppo 203* XB1X* 4k Denon X4200

MASTER LIST OF HDR CONTENT THREAD HERE, UPDATED OFTEN
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post #1128 of 1137 Old 06-20-2019, 09:15 AM
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Regardless of the logo, the current thinking is that it is HDR10+, but as you say, the problem is that there's no proof of it.
Despite all the advertising and specifications I've seen for the Q9FN TV, @Samsung Support on Twitter is adamant that it does not have HDR10+ capability and will not stream HDR10+ from Amazon. If true, that would explain why there is no "proof".

I am attaching the relevant DMs from Samsung.

If we have no proof that the Q9FN displays HDR10+ and Sumsung repeatedly insists that the TV does not have HDR10+ capability, why do we keep assuming it does? Because Samsung says so in their advertising? We all want to trust Samsung and no one wants to believe they’ve been ripped off, but I am no longer convinced that our wishful thinking is correct. I think it’s possible Samsung screwed up and is just hoping it will all blow over if they never acknowledge it. If that TV series doesn't have HD10+, admitting it could be horrendously expensive for them.
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post #1129 of 1137 Old 06-20-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
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Originally Posted by b0rnarian View Post
A&#115; promi&#115;ed, here'&#115; playing Alien on my K&#83;9800 with HDR10+ info. That&#115; preci&#115;ely what the web&#115;ite did too.

http://http&#115;://drive.google.com/file...=drive&#115;dk
i&#115; thi&#115; from the &#83;am&#115;ung 4k Blu Ray player?

75Q9FN*55C8oled* Oppo 203/UB820*&#83;10+*DenonX4200
No Ray, it&#115; from oppo 203.

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post #1130 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 06:05 PM
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So Samsung 2018 entire qled line doesn’t have hdr 10+ despite being advertised as having it? False advertisement class action lawsuit incoming?
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post #1131 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 07:11 PM
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So Samsung 2018 entire qled line doesn’t have hdr 10+ despite being advertised as having it? False advertisement class action lawsuit incoming?
The last message I sent in my DM conversation with Samsung Support on Twitter a week ago was basically to that effect (see attachment). I think we all agree that Samsung Support is largely staffed with people who aren't qualified to answer even the simplest product questions.

By the way, their last message to me was a survey asking me to rate my experience with their Support personnel on a scale of 0-10. I gave them a 0.
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post #1132 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 07:21 PM
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The last message I sent in my DM conversation with Samsung Support on Twitter a week ago was basically to that effect (see attachment). I think we all agree that Samsung Support is largely staffed with people who aren't qualified to answer even the simplest product questions.



By the way, their last message to me was a survey asking me to rate my experience with their Support personnel on a scale of 0-10. I gave them a 0.


I dmd that twitter account and got a similar response. They told me my tv supports standard hdr and not hdr 10+. Their support staff is incompetent, but there’s reason to believe Samsung could have lied to us.

I would check out the new firmware but I’m hearing they went back to a very aggressive local dimming algorithm that causes the entire screen to light up with subtitles in dark scenes that they fixed with their 1251 firmware.
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post #1133 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 08:47 PM
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I dmd that twitter account and got a similar response. They told me my tv supports standard hdr and not hdr 10+. Their support staff is incompetent, but there’s reason to believe Samsung could have lied to us.

I would check out the new firmware but I’m hearing they went back to a very aggressive local dimming algorithm that causes the entire screen to light up with subtitles in dark scenes that they fixed with their 1251 firmware.
With regard to the HDR10+, I have now satisfied myself that the TV is at least accepting an HDR10+ stream from my M9500 Bluray player and presumably displaying it as it should. Apparently the Amazon Fire Stick 4K has a developer tool app that allows you to detect whether the TV is accepting an HDR10+ stream from Amazon. For some reason, though, Samsung is not highlighting HDR10+ functionality in the TV itself which seems odd considering how they made such a big deal of it in their advertising.

And don't even get me started on subtitles. How can Samsung spend so much effort making the display as good at it can be and then let subtitles screw it up? I'm old and my hearing isn't that great so I keep subtitles turned on most of the time. That it causes brightness fluctuations on the entire screen is more than a little annoying. 1251 didn't completely solve the issue for me, but at least it seemed okay for some content. I have 1260 now, but haven't been paying much attention to how it affected subtitles.
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post #1134 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 09:19 PM
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HDR10+ Debuts on Amazon Prime Video &amp; Samsung 2017 UHD TVs

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Originally Posted by Sensualphotoguy View Post
With regard to the HDR10+, I have now satisfied myself that the TV is at least accepting an HDR10+ stream from my M9500 Bluray player and presumably displaying it as it should. Apparently the Amazon Fire Stick 4K has a developer tool app that allows you to detect whether the TV is accepting an HDR10+ stream from Amazon. For some reason, though, Samsung is not highlighting HDR10+ functionality in the TV itself which seems odd considering how they made such a big deal of it in their advertising.



And don't even get me started on subtitles. How can Samsung spend so much effort making the display as good at it can be and then let subtitles screw it up? I'm old and my hearing isn't that great so I keep subtitles turned on most of the time. That it causes brightness fluctuations on the entire screen is more than a little annoying. 1251 didn't completely solve the issue for me, but at least it seemed okay for some content. I have 1260 now, but haven't been paying much attention to how it affected subtitles.

If you’re still on 1251 you can turn on hdr+ mode for sdr content and put local dimming at low and it eliminates the screen brightening issue. For hdr content you don’t need hdr+ but you must have local dimming at low. I use movie picture mode but people have confirmed standard mode works.

Unfortunately game mode still has that issue though which is a pain because I use it a lot to play games.

Edit: it looks like you’re on 1260. Could you go ahead and try those settings to see if that solves it?

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post #1135 of 1137 Old 06-26-2019, 09:31 PM
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I have a question about my 2017 Panasonic OLED regarding HDR10+. In multiple interviews at TV launch events both in 2017 and 2018, the Panasonic representative being interviewed said that HDR10+ playback would be coming to my TV model (EZ1000) as well as other models in a firmware update in the future. In November of 2018, they introduced this update to their 2018 tv model lineup only, but still nothing for the 2017 model lineup. Is it safe to assume they just won't be adding it to the 2017 models as was planned considering it's halfway through 2019 now?

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post #1136 of 1137 Old 06-27-2019, 03:07 AM
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I spent a lot of time changing my TV settings to get the best picture when watching amazon prime video original series (HDR10+). I often felt that the image was not as bright as the scene should be. for instance a scene on a sunny day looked like it was a cloudy day. I didn't want to use any Samsung post processing features (contrast enhancer, gamma value) with HDR10+ because I wanted the dynamic metadata to set the luminance levels. I already had the backlight and contrast maxed out.

Then I changed the color tone from the movie picture mode default of warm 2 to warm 1.
For me this made a big improvement. Now I feel the luminance looks appropriate to the scene and there is plenty of light output in bright scenes and dark scenes don't look too dark. I wanted to share this in this forum in case it helps anyone else out.

The best color/luminance/lighting effects in an amazon original series that I have seen is Agatha Christie : ordeal by innocence. All or nothing: Manchester city is also very good.

My setup:
NU7100 40" TV (firmware 1251.0), M7500 UHD Blu-ray, firestick 4K, apple TV 4K

HDR10+ settings (Amazon firestick 4K watching amazon prime video originals)
picture mode: movie
color tone: warm 1
Backlight: 50 (max)
Brightness: -1 (default is 0)
Contrast: 50 (max)
Sharpness: 0
Color: 27 (default is 25)
Tint (G/R): 0
Digital Clean View: Off
Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma Value: 0
Color Space Settings: Auto

for what its worth, when watching regular HDR10 (movies on the apple TV 4K), I use the same settings but set contrast enhancer = low. I did some back to back testing; the color and luminance levels look close to what I get when watching the same amazon content in HDR10+ (firestick 4K). HDR10+ always looks better so I always use the firestick 4K when watching amazon originals, since the apple TV 4K does not support HDR10+ at this time.
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post #1137 of 1137 Old 07-01-2019, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brygalt_hdr View Post
My setup:
NU7100 40" TV (firmware 1251.0), M7500 UHD Blu-ray, firestick 4K, apple TV 4K
With peak brightness of only around 300 cd/m² the NU7100 will struggle to give a good HDR performance. It all depends on how Samsung have setup the EOTF on the NU7100 to render a 1000-4000 cd/m² original to a maximum of only 300 cd/m². Probably similar to earlier models:

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Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

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