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post #91 of 114 Old 08-17-2017, 02:17 PM
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I'm currently reading through King Richard's recommended articles on HDR and holy crap is HDR marketed terribly. A lot of HDR marketing emphasizes so much brightness that it makes it seem like all of the TVs are going to be a on supermax brightness from the get go.
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post #92 of 114 Old 08-30-2017, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zipadeedude View Post
The only difference I've noticed is that highlights are way brighter. Despite really wanting to be impressed (because I paid a ransom for my OLED TV), I am completely underwhelmed. I've watched a lot of material, both Dolby Vision and HDR10, some of which is deemed visually stunning.

I actually prefer SDR. I don't like having my eyes burned out by specular highlights or sections of an image that dominate a whole scene (e.g. fluorescent lights). I've verified that my TV settings are for dark viewing environments.

SDR gets plenty bright. I don't understand it. Am I alone in this? What do you like about HDR? Maybe I need to take an image quality appreciation course.
Zipadeedude, I feel your pain. I found HDR practically unwatchable on my Sony X940D because of the intense brightness of things like undraped windows and light fixtures. I then discovered that there are separate PQ controls for SDR and HDR on this set. All of my TV viewing is in a nearly dark room at night. For SDR, my brightness is 35 of 50, and contrast is 90 of 100. By just moving brightness to 40 of 50 and contrast to 80 of 100 for HDR, it is much more pleasant. I don't have a UHD player (yet), so this is with Netflix content. I'm still not 100% sold on HDR, but I'm hoping this will change as content makers get a better handle on the technology.
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post #93 of 114 Old 09-13-2017, 11:00 AM
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I just jumped on the HDR bandwagon last week with the purchase of my Sony x800 UHD BD Player with my Sony xbr75x850c. I had streamed a few youtube and Amazon items but wanted to hold off on judgement to see what Physical media looked like thinking maybe that is what was missing. Watched Trolls, Lucy, and The Mummy and still cant grasp the WOW factor being pushed on the subject of HDR... Today I am trying some HDR setting changes from a SS found here with some other member settings to see if that brings me the warm and fuzzy I am looking for. But my Dad always said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and every beholder sees beauty in different ways."
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post #94 of 114 Old 09-13-2017, 07:05 PM
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I've watched a few UltraHD blurays now and I too am a little lost on the wow factor, a lot of movies right now just look like 2k upscaled, so there really is little to no improvement in detail over regular bluray for hollywood films, the HDR effect is usually limited to a few scenes here and there. It just feels like the content we have really isn't being shot for HDR, just upscaled/reprocessed for HDR.

Then you have stuff like planet earth 2 which is on a whole another level, you can clearly see they used camera equipment to capture as much detail as possible. I think this is where the problem lies mostly, the content needs to be filmed with proper HDR equipment and HDR in mind to really leverage the strengths of the format.

I've done quite a bit of gaming in HDR too, games seem to show more of an improvement, the 4k resolution bump reduces aliasing and improves detail, HDR allows the lighting engines of modern games to really stretch their legs and provide more natural lighting. Something like Horizon Zero Dawn just looks spectacular, Forza Horzon 3 gives a lot more atmospheric depth with HDR.
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post #95 of 114 Old 04-16-2018, 01:34 PM
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I don't like HDR. Not one bit. I never liked a bright picture with bright colors. I always turn down brightness and color on all of my displays. To me HDR actually hurts my eyes and is hard to see. I hate that some Netflix programs use it and even the videos on YouTube just look super bright colors, bright but dull images.

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post #96 of 114 Old 04-16-2018, 01:43 PM
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In my experience, HDR makes images darker, not brighter. Colors are more realistic and there are more details.

New 4K TV's do regular HD so well that I think it's hard for most people to see a big difference.
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post #97 of 114 Old 04-17-2018, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVS Commenter View Post
In my experience, HDR makes images darker, not brighter. Colors are more realistic and there are more details.

New 4K TV's do regular HD so well that I think it's hard for most people to see a big difference.
I never liked bright colors or bright screens. I always set my colors to neutral around 50% and my brightness to 5% and sharpness 70% to 80%. I even did this on my older CRT TV's. So no wonder why I hated HDR but I do love 1080p and 4K.

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post #98 of 114 Old 04-18-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
For me it is just an incremental improvement, not a game-changing one. I'm sure to be in a minority, but that's just me feeling on the matter.
That's what it should have been, an incremental evolutionary non-proprietary improvement involving more bits (10-12) and better highlights (say, two additional levels/zones over full white at 100-200 nits).

But greed came into play and manufacturers and technology developers chose to make it a game changer. So now it is a highly complex monster.

I think the BBC/NHK got it right, but no one seems to care.

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post #99 of 114 Old 04-18-2018, 02:40 PM
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HDR is still fairly new. My guess is it will look better in a couple years.
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post #100 of 114 Old 06-06-2018, 02:48 PM
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HDR completely torches my eyeballs, especially HDR gaming. It's one thing to enjoy a vibrant image but another entirely to get headaches and eye strain from your TV. If that's what the "HD experience" is supposed to be then count me out.
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post #101 of 114 Old 06-07-2018, 10:27 AM
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For me, HDR is about the depth of color and texture it provides over rec.709. I'm lucky to have a 4K projector in a small room with only an 88" screen. I don't have the usual projector HDR complaint of dimness. I definitely can't get the same brightness as a panel, but I'm more than happy with it. My favorite thing to point out is clothing close ups. You don't just see a "blue sweater", you see the different shades of the wool that together make the sweater look the way it does.
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post #102 of 114 Old 06-07-2018, 05:47 PM
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HDR is impossible to fairly judge unless you have your projector or Tv professionally calibrated. Mine looked awful until ChadB brought it to life.

To me, 4K is somewhat underwhelming compared to already good 1080p, while properly executed HDR is a significant improvement.

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post #103 of 114 Old 06-08-2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
HDR is impossible to fairly judge unless you have your projector or Tv professionally calibrated. Mine looked awful until ChadB brought it to life.

To me, 4K is somewhat underwhelming compared to already good 1080p, while properly executed HDR is a significant improvement.
Mine isn't professionally done, but I have had 15 years of tuning my projectors to the best picture to my eye.

I just watched GotG on BRD with my Sony projector upscaling to 4K yesterday, and Volume 2 on UHD/HDR disc today. If you can't tell a difference in HDR in Yondu's arrow trails, the lights at his funeral, and the depth of shadow detail in the underground scenes, your display needs work.
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post #104 of 114 Old 06-09-2018, 08:37 PM
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I didn't like HDR at first but now I love it. It isn't for everyone but most sets need calibration to fully enjoy it properly.

Spoiler!
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post #105 of 114 Old 06-13-2018, 01:30 PM
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Wow - great thread all. I read through most of it and confirmed quite a few things that I was questioning.

I had my TV calibrated professionally recently and realize there is no specific HDR specifications to go by.

What I have concluded though is if your TV is calibrated properly and HDR is enabled - you still get the expected HDR effect but it is on a calibrated picture.

I was worried at first as I was not getting the marketed HDR pop that everyone expects.

However put on a key scene with HDR goodness and it certainly pops vs normal output. The best part - it still looks realistic with the proper details.


Obviously this is just my own experience from testing. I played around with a few other settings etc and I can certainly get more contrast out of the picture but for a true movie experience, I feel keeping everything the same and only enabling HDR - works best for me.

My fav scene to test - Final elevator scene in Stranger Things Season 2. If that doesn't impress you with HDR - then nothing will.

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post #106 of 114 Old 06-18-2018, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
heres one of the best HDR articles out there. This guy is EXTREMELY knowledgable about HDR and this article is personally recommended by Stacy Spears of Spectracal (spears and munsil calibration equipment/tools).


http://hometheaterhifi.com/technical...r-calibration/
The HDR Luminance Graph at the end of the article is really depressing. Are there any updated lists of current TVs that follow the reference monitor's trend but cost less than the $8000 examples there?
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post #107 of 114 Old 06-18-2018, 09:29 PM
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The hype didn't live up for me. Friend gave me a demo of this on his 55" LG OLED and 55" TCL P Series. HDR was noticeable and a little too bright in a dim room, but I wouldn't say it's as revolutionary as tech writers have claimed to be. I thought the Dark Knight's Blu Ray on his OLED was the bigger sell, it was like when I viewed it on a Pioneer Kuro a decade ago.

I first saw OLED in 2008, a 4K display in 2012, and an HDR display in 2015. That was bleeding-edge tech for the 1% crowd/AV hobbyists, and I figured 2018 was the year when all three would be affordable and mainstream. Frustratingly, it's still not there yet. I think another 3-5 years is needed until 4k HDR is widely adopted by TV/movies with grading standards and the hardware pipeline to show it is easily affordable.

Although prices have decreased a lot, the actual amount of proper4k HDR content is still limited. Other than a handful of UHD discs like Planet Earth II, I'm still waiting to see it widespread like for YouTube videos or HBO/Netflix streaming. It's not just content either. I looked at the cost of a 75"+ OLED TV, native 4k HDR projector, desktop monitor, UHD player (my PS4 should have had this), UHD discs, and that satellite/cable TV bandwidth still doesn't have 1080P uncompressed.

This reminds me of 3D, which lasted from 2010-2017. Proper native 3D movies like Avatar, Hugo, and Prometheus looked spectacular, but they also had a learning curve and huge cost for producers.
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post #108 of 114 Old 06-19-2018, 08:22 AM
 
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I see a lot of people in this thread talking about a calibration making a huge difference, especially in regards to HDR. I don't think the HDR calibration is making a massive difference.

What I do think is that the SDR calibration is showing you what SDR is supposed to look like (and how bad it is).

Modern TVs with their backlight and color settings can pump some serious brightness/color into an SDR image that really diminishes the HDR effect and makes it seem less impressive. Correctly calibrating SDR to the proper 100 nit setting (that probably 1% of the population uses) to show what the image is supposed to "really" look where you can really see how much difference there is in HDR. This probably explains why many people aren't wowed by HDR as much as they potentially could be - simply because they're not used to seeing SDR as it is supposed to look like.

Interestingly enough, it may be hard for alot of people to also differentiate from the benefit of HDR and 4K if you're used to having an SDR image on blast. The resulting image may look very similar, if not dimmer on the HDR version, with highlights just as bright in SDR, but with less detail. The expanded highlight detail found in the HDR image may be attributed incorrectly by viewers to "4K" resolution rather than the addition of more steps of contrast that HDR provides.
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post #109 of 114 Old 06-19-2018, 08:32 AM
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Not impressed with HDR

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
I see a lot of people in this thread talking about a calibration making a huge difference, especially in regards to HDR. I don't think the HDR calibration is making a massive difference.



What I do think is that the SDR calibration is showing you what SDR is supposed to look like (and how bad it is).



Modern TVs with their backlight and color settings can pump some serious brightness/color into an SDR image that really diminishes the HDR effect and makes it seem less impressive. Correctly calibrating SDR to the proper 100 nit setting (that probably 1% of the population uses) to show what the image is supposed to "really" look where you can really see how much difference there is in HDR. This probably explains why many people aren't wowed by HDR as much as they potentially could be - simply because they're not used to seeing SDR as it is supposed to look like.



Interestingly enough, it may be hard for alot of people to also differentiate from the benefit of HDR and 4K if you're used to having an SDR image on blast. The resulting image may look very similar, if not dimmer on the HDR version, with highlights just as bright in SDR, but with less detail. The expanded highlight detail found in the HDR image may be attributed incorrectly by viewers to "4K" resolution rather than the addition of more steps of contrast that HDR provides.


You just hit the nail on the head SDR =100-150 cd/m2

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post #110 of 114 Old 06-19-2018, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderg823 View Post
Modern TVs with their backlight and color settings can pump some serious brightness/color into an SDR image that really diminishes the HDR effect and makes it seem less impressive. Correctly calibrating SDR to the proper 100 nit setting (that probably 1% of the population uses) to show what the image is supposed to "really" look where you can really see how much difference there is in HDR. This probably explains why many people aren't wowed by HDR as much as they potentially could be - simply because they're not used to seeing SDR as it is supposed to look like.
Even purist have the need to watch content in brighter environments sometimes. And they should not care about what they lose when they do so.

While the revolutionary proprietary technology (DV) and the we're-not-gonna-take-it technology (HDR10) do not allow the user/the TV to compensate for the viewing environment, the evolutionary non-proprietary one (HLG) does.
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post #111 of 114 Old 06-19-2018, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc-rocksteady View Post
Although prices have decreased a lot, the actual amount of proper4k HDR content is still limited.
It is possible, perhaps likely, that all Dolby Vision available content has been sponsored, given that access to the necessary hardware and software is restricted.
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post #112 of 114 Old 12-19-2019, 02:59 PM
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I personally don't like HDR, there are no colors, it's like going back to black and white TV, the picture is very dramatic and great resolution but I rather enjoy the colors and charm in 4k SDR format, I'm glad I'm able to do that in Apple TV, I changed the format from 4k HDR to 4k SDR and it looks better to me. I don't need to see every freckle, pore or scar in people faces, not even in real life you can see it when you are talking to someone.
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post #113 of 114 Old 01-04-2020, 05:55 AM
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I'm finding HDR highly adictive. All I want to watch is HDR with wide colour.
I have 4k TV in the lounge. It is not bright for an LCD with LED back light. It didn't seem to support wide colour either.

The JVC X7000 projector on the other hand is my visual nirvana. It is bright with P3 colour.

I was converting HDR to SDR using the OPPO tone mapping, but now I am finding HDR mode so much nicer.




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post #114 of 114 Old 01-15-2020, 02:14 PM
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I love HDR on Netflix!

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