The Fate of the Furious in Dolby Vision versus HDR10 and SDR - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The Fate of the Furious in Dolby Vision versus HDR10 and SDR

Dolby Vision brings home the rich colors and amazing detail found in today's blockbuster action extravaganzas like The Fate of the Furious

Click here to read about the differences I saw between Dolby Vision, HDR10, and SDR while watching F8.
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post #2 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Dolby Vision brings home the rich colors and amazing detail found in today's blockbuster action extravaganzas like The Fate of the Furious

Click here to read about the differences I saw between Dolby Vision, HDR10, and SDR while watching F8.
Thanks Mark! I agree with your opinions on this. This was my first DV disc and I did a few informal comparisons.

I'd like to make one clarification on this statement: "Dolby Vision is the only HDR workflow used by movie studios for cinematic releases (check out this list by Scott Wilkinson)."

You might want to qualify it with "in the US." Because there is a theatrical HDR system in Europe called EclairColor. It's mostly French movies so far, but there have been a few US movies also displayed in the format like La La Land and Valerian.
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post #3 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
Thanks Mark! I agree with your opinions on this. This was my first DV disc and I did a few informal comparisons.

I'd like to make one clarification on this statement: "Dolby Vision is the only HDR workflow used by movie studios for cinematic releases (check out this list by Scott Wilkinson)."

You might want to qualify it with "in the US." Because there is a theatrical HDR system in Europe called EclairColor. It's mostly French movies so far, but there have been a few US movies also displayed in the format like La La Land and Valerian.
Cool, I'll go with "in North America" then. Thank you for the insight.

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post #4 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
Thanks Mark! I agree with your opinions on this. This was my first DV disc and I did a few informal comparisons.

I'd like to make one clarification on this statement: "Dolby Vision is the only HDR workflow used by movie studios for cinematic releases (check out this list by Scott Wilkinson)."

You might want to qualify it with "in the US." Because there is a theatrical HDR system in Europe called EclairColor. It's mostly French movies so far, but there have been a few US movies also displayed in the format like La La Land and Valerian.
Interesting! Where in the US would one see a movie graded in EclairColor? I saw La La Land in a Dolby Cinema, where it was almost certainly graded in Dolby Vision...I would be shocked if something other than Dolby Vision was used in Dolby Cinema.
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post #5 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Interesting! Where in the US would one see a movie graded in EclairColor? I saw La La Land in a Dolby Cinema, where it was almost certainly graded in Dolby Vision...I would be shocked if something other than Dolby Vision was used in Dolby Cinema.
I found a few articles about the release of Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, seems we might see this technology in the U.S. at some point, if the studio execs buy into it: 'Valerian' to Screen in New HDR Format in France and Germany (The Hollywood Reporter)

Looks like Dolby might have some competition in the cinematic HDR game sooner than I thought!

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post #6 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Interesting! Where in the US would one see a movie graded in EclairColor? I saw La La Land in a Dolby Cinema, where it was almost certainly graded in Dolby Vision...I would be shocked if something other than Dolby Vision was used in Dolby Cinema.
La Land was graded in Dolby Vision for the Dolby Cinemas here in the US. But it was also graded in EclairColor for their theaters in Europe.

I don't think there are any EclairColor theaters in the US yet. But they recently created the Sphera brand which I believe they are marketing as a package to compete with Dolby Cinema. And they want to expand it to the US according to THR.
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post #7 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 11:51 AM
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there is a theatrical HDR system in Europe called EclairColor.
Sounds tasty!

Looky here!
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post #8 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 12:18 PM
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Very interesting article, was curious how the two would compare!
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post #9 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 12:25 PM
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I am still looking for the Charlize
Theron reference made in the headline.
Is she in HDR?
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post #10 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Dolby Vision brings home the rich colors and amazing detail found in today's blockbuster action extravaganzas like The Fate of the Furious

Click here to read about the differences I saw between Dolby Vision, HDR10, and SDR while watching F8.
Now if you used an OLED with the DV disc, you'd be picking up your eyeballs from the floor.

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Not surprising, since this TV is mid tier at best when it comes to HDR10 content. So naturally, DV is going to be a noticeable improvement on this particular TV.
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post #12 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 02:56 PM
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imagic, I have the same TCL TV and I have posted on a number of occasions in the owners thread that DV looked too dark to my eyes on the DV Dark setting. This is using Vudu's UHD version of Star Trek Beyond. I had to change the setting to DV Normal for something that look satisfying. I currently don't have a UHD BD player so I can't compare. You mentioned that F8 looked darker through Vudu in your review so, could this be an issue with all Vudu UHD titles?

HDR10 content from YouTube and PS4 gaming has never looked to dark (I left the TV in HDR Dark) but, for some reason DV does, even the few Netflix videos I've sampled. Is this just the nature of DV or are the streaming service missing something? Can you recommend something from a streaming service that looks really good in DV?

Also, our room is not completely dark but, again, HDR10 content looks great. It bugs me to no end because most people say DV should have a slight edge over HDR but, to my eyes on the TCL, HDR looks better (at least at eaches default Dark mode).

Thanks for the review of F8, makes me even more anxious for the Xbox One X which will be my UHD BD player.

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post #13 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
imagic, I have the same TCL TV and I have posted on a number of occasions in the owners thread that DV looked too dark to my eyes on the DV Dark setting. This is using Vudu's UHD version of Star Trek Beyond. I had to change the setting to DV Normal for something that look satisfying. I currently don't have a UHD BD player so I can't compare. You mentioned that F8 looked darker through Vudu in your review so, could this be an issue with all Vudu UHD titles?

HDR10 content from YouTube and PS4 gaming has never looked to dark (I left the TV in HDR Dark) but, for some reason DV does, even the few Netflix videos I've sampled. Is this just the nature of DV or are the streaming service missing something? Can you recommend something from a streaming service that looks really good in DV?

Also, our room is not completely dark but, again, HDR10 content looks great. It bugs me to no end because most people say DV should have a slight edge over HDR but, to my eyes on the TCL, HDR looks better (at least at eaches default Dark mode).

Thanks for the review of F8, makes me even more anxious for the Xbox One X which will be my UHD BD player.

Yes, streaming F8 Dolby Vision on Vudu looked and measured darker than Dolby Vision on disc. Quite a bit darker.

The Lego Batman Movie looked fantastic streaming in Dolby Vision on Vudu, fwiw. That wowed me, but I do not know how it looks/measures on disc, given that it was not released in Dolby Vision on UHD Blu-ray.

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post #14 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by T_dot View Post
Not surprising, since this TV is mid tier at best when it comes to HDR10 content. So naturally, DV is going to be a noticeable improvement on this particular TV.
We need the X930E/X940E Dolby Vision update to make a real apples to apples comparison.
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post #15 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post
imagic, I have the same TCL TV and I have posted on a number of occasions in the owners thread that DV looked too dark to my eyes on the DV Dark setting. This is using Vudu's UHD version of Star Trek Beyond. I had to change the setting to DV Normal for something that look satisfying. I currently don't have a UHD BD player so I can't compare. You mentioned that F8 looked darker through Vudu in your review so, could this be an issue with all Vudu UHD titles?

HDR10 content from YouTube and PS4 gaming has never looked to dark (I left the TV in HDR Dark) but, for some reason DV does, even the few Netflix videos I've sampled. Is this just the nature of DV or are the streaming service missing something? Can you recommend something from a streaming service that looks really good in DV?

Also, our room is not completely dark but, again, HDR10 content looks great. It bugs me to no end because most people say DV should have a slight edge over HDR but, to my eyes on the TCL, HDR looks better (at least at eaches default Dark mode).

Thanks for the review of F8, makes me even more anxious for the Xbox One X which will be my UHD BD player.
A little late on response, but it could be the streaming input gamma may be higher than 2.2, probably close to 2.4. So the only fix would be a calibration, or firmware update from TCL raising dark end of the greyscale.

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post #16 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Dolby Vision brings home the rich colors and amazing detail found in today's blockbuster action extravaganzas like The Fate of the Furious

Click here to read about the differences I saw between Dolby Vision, HDR10, and SDR while watching F8.
Quote:
I put a Colorimetry Research CR-100 colorimeter on the screen and measured the same spot in the same frame—the bright red Chevy Impala featured in the opening at 0:01:27—to see if there was an objective difference in the color rendition of the two formats. The Dolby Vision red was at once a bit more saturated and brighter, but that could be a result of the mode’s default settings and not a limitation of the TV when playing HDR10 content. The same observations held true for the blue sky.
Mark, when you were measuring the Impala, did you also measure it in SDR? Just wondering if that's one of the shades of red that can't be reproduced in rec.709.

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post #17 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
Matt, when you were measuring the Impala, did you also measure it in SDR? Just wondering if that's one of the shades of red that can't be reproduced in rec.709.
Yes, I did measure it in SDR and what I saw was similar brightness but less saturated red. That was my guess, and why I chose that car, you simply don't see that sort of red in rec.709 content. I mean, look at the movie we're talking about here... of course it's the reddest red imaginable!

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post #18 of 36 Old 07-19-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Yes, I did measure it in SDR and what I saw was similar brightness but less saturated red. That was my guess, and why I chose that car, you simply don't see that sort of red in rec.709 content. I mean, look at the movie we're talking about here... of course it's the reddest red imaginable!
Yeah, that red really stood out. Thanks! And sorry for calling you Matt, Mark. Long day.

One other question, did you experience any floating blacks in the letterbox bars? Some people have reported seeing that on LG OLEDs in the Oppo 203 owners thread on this disc and Power Rangers, but only in DV, not HDR10. I didn't see it on my Vizio P.
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post #19 of 36 Old 07-20-2017, 12:16 AM
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The article states Google Play movies has Dolby Vision. Are we sure on that? I only streamed Amazing Spiderman 2 from GP Movies and it was a HDR10 stream. It looked really bad with motion artifacts.

Another poster asked about top notch and bright streaming DV content. Girlboss on Netflix in DV is the cream of the crop, as far as streaming DV content on that service.
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post #20 of 36 Old 07-20-2017, 12:52 AM
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Mark,

Since you were forced to use two different players to compare HDR10 and DV, how much do you think that factored-in to the differences that you saw in the picture - especially since the OPPO is supposed to be a better player than the Sammy?

Are you really comparing apples-to-apples in this case?

P.S. I'm not implying that DV isn't the superior format, but I was just wondering.


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post #21 of 36 Old 07-20-2017, 06:18 AM
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Wonder how long it will be for the projector manufacturers to add DV? Maybe that would convince me to move to HDR on a reasonably priced projector.
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post #22 of 36 Old 07-20-2017, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark,

Since you were forced to use two different players to compare HDR10 and DV, how much do you think that factored-in to the differences that you saw in the picture - especially since the OPPO is supposed to be a better player than the Sammy?

Are you really comparing apples-to-apples in this case?

P.S. I'm not implying that DV isn't the superior format, but I was just wondering.


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I find it hard to believe that's two different players would serve up the same data in a different way, and I marvel at the notion that people think there is a difference in picture quality with unadulterated HDR10 playback.

The short answer is that if you play a non-DV disc the output of the players is identical, so long as you are not applying any processing to the video. That's some wishful thinking on behalf of Oppo owners that some magic occurs. Makes no difference than thinking a HDMI cable could improve video quality. The bits are bits.

If someone can show a proper, direct visual comparison that proves otherwise, I'm open-minded.
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post #23 of 36 Old 07-20-2017, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
The article states Google Play movies has Dolby Vision. Are we sure on that? I only streamed Amazing Spiderman 2 from GP Movies and it was a HDR10 stream. It looked really bad with motion artifacts.

Another poster asked about top notch and bright streaming DV content. Girlboss on Netflix in DV is the cream of the crop, as far as streaming DV content on that service.
Yes, Google Play supports Dolby Vision, at least per my research (just double-checked) but that doesn't mean that the HDR content you want to watch has it as an option yet. I will look into it some more. Also, I know that Scott Wilkinson is writing an article about all the places to obtain Dolby Vision content and all the players that support it..

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkbeard View Post
The article states Google Play movies has Dolby Vision. Are we sure on that? I only streamed Amazing Spiderman 2 from GP Movies and it was a HDR10 stream. It looked really bad with motion artifacts.

Another poster asked about top notch and bright streaming DV content. Girlboss on Netflix in DV is the cream of the crop, as far as streaming DV content on that service.
Yes, Google Play supports Dolby Vision, at least per my research (just double-checked) but that doesn't mean that the HDR content you want to watch has it as an option yet. I will look into it some more. Also, I know that Scott Wilkinson is writing an article about all the places to obtain Dolby Vision content and all the players that support it..
It would probably be a Warner Brothers title on GP that has Dolby Vision. All those UHD WB titles with HDR on GP are on Vudu in Dolby Vision. The one exception being Sucker Punch. Since Vudu only allows Dolby Vision UHD content, I'm going to take a guess that title is HDR10 and isn't allowed on Vudu.
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Wonder how long it will be for the projector manufacturers to add DV? Maybe that would convince me to move to HDR on a reasonably priced projector.
I was wondering the same thing. I hope they make an announcement about DV in projectors at CEDIA 2017.

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post #26 of 36 Old 07-21-2017, 09:51 AM
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So The Fate of the Furious in HDR 10 doesn't bring Hollywood home? Should I throw away my Sammy and get a TLC?
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post #27 of 36 Old 07-21-2017, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by T_dot View Post
Not surprising, since this TV is mid tier at best when it comes to HDR10 content. So naturally, DV is going to be a noticeable improvement on this particular TV.
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So The Fate of the Furious in HDR 10 doesn't bring Hollywood home? Should I throw away my Sammy and get a TLC?
Lol, HDR10 brings Hollywood home too for sure. I can't wait for Vudu to add it so I can project rented movies with DCI/P3 color.

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Lol, HDR10 brings Hollywood home too for sure. I can't wait for Vudu to add it so I can project rented movies with DCI/P3 color.
Power Rangers can now be used for comparison. (disc vs Vudu streaming)
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post #29 of 36 Old 07-22-2017, 10:02 AM
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"Video technology ecosystem." "HDR workflow."

You cannot be serious. Whoever thinks up pretentious meaninigless corporatespeak phrases such as these should go to jail.

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post #30 of 36 Old 07-23-2017, 06:38 AM
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"Video technology ecosystem." "HDR workflow."



You cannot be serious. Whoever thinks up pretentious meaninigless corporatespeak phrases such as these should go to jail.


I really appreciate your well constructed and thought out input.

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