What's the limit (nit-wise) for humans for HDR? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By King Richard
  • 1 Post By Patsfan123
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 08-14-2017, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
linkgx1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 25
What's the limit (nit-wise) for humans for HDR?

I mean, before we go blind. Let's say that the companies can somehow get the power savings to where they are small enough to pass regulatory standards. How many nits can a human handle?
linkgx1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 08-14-2017, 09:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,001
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 73
0 to 1000 nits then the eyes iris contracts for anything brighter thus still giving a 1000 nit range.
Bill is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 08-14-2017, 09:57 PM
Lionheart of AVS
 
King Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Greenstone, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1797 Post(s)
Liked: 4367
The ambient brightness of a sunny day with clear blue skies is between 7000-10,000 nits (between 3000-7000 nits for overcast skies and indirect sunlight).

A bright sunny day can have specular highlights that reach over 100,000 nits. Direct sunlight is around 1,600,000,000 nits.

10,000 nits is also the typical brightness of a fluorescent tube - bright, but not painful to look at.

See the pics below (Spoiler!):

Spoiler!

So I'm pretty sure you are not going to go blind watching a bright TV screen.

Although THIS might happen:




Also, bear in mind that those maximum nit values usually only apply to "specular highlights" (small areas of the screen) and are only present in some scenes not all - the overall brightness level of the entire movie will still be around 100-120 nits. This means that the APL (Average Picture Level) of an HDR movie will not be significantly different than for an SDR movie.


Richard
Haiej likes this.

Last edited by King Richard; 08-16-2017 at 07:42 PM.
King Richard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 Old 08-15-2017, 01:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Patsfan123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Randolph, MA
Posts: 2,488
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
0 to 1000 nits then the eyes iris contracts for anything brighter thus still giving a 1000 nit range.
My eyes contract when watching 0-~700nits on my OLED with no ambient light. It's all about the range. You could make a 10,000 nit display but you probably wont be able to seen any detail under a few hundred nits when theres 10,000 nit content on the screen.
mercennarius likes this.

LG 65C6P FW: 05.30.70 | Onkyo TX-RZ730 5.1.4 | Oppo UDP-203 | Sony UBP-X700 | Xbox One X | Chromecast Ultra | Apple TV 4K
LG 55EG9100 | LG 60PK550 | Samsung LN-S4095D | Samsung UBD‑K8500 | Philips BDP7501 | Panasonic DMP-BDT110
Patsfan123 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 08-15-2017, 03:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,001
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 73
The trouble with 100 to 120 nits brightness level is the TV is maxed out so you can't make it brighter. There in lies the biggest problem with HDR.
Bill is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 08-16-2017, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
linkgx1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richard View Post
The ambient brightness of a sunny day with clear blue skies is between 7000-10,000 nits (between 3000-7000 nits for overcast skies and indirect sunlight).

A bright sunny day can have specular highlights that reach over 100,000 nits. Direct sunlight is around 1,600,000,000 nits.

10,000 nits is also the typical brightness of a fluorescent tube - bright, but not painful to look at.

See the pics below (Spoiler!):

Spoiler!

So I'm pretty sure you are not going to go blind watching a bright TV screen.



Also, bear in mind that those maximum nit values usually only apply to "specular highlights" (small areas of the screen) and are only present in some scenes not all - the overall brightness level of the entire movie will still be around 100-120 nits. This means that the APL (Average Picture Level) of an HDR movie will not be significantly different than for an SDR movie.


Richard
Is that why a lot of people are usually not impressed with HDR? Is it supposed to be ''apart of the story'' rather than the grand visual flair?
linkgx1 is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 08-17-2017, 02:51 AM
Lionheart of AVS
 
King Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Greenstone, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1797 Post(s)
Liked: 4367
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post
Is that why a lot of people are usually not impressed with HDR? Is it supposed to be ''apart of the story'' rather than the grand visual flair?

There can be several reasons why some people are not impressed with HDR. However, I'd say that most people, myself included, have been very impressed with most of the HDR content they have seen so far (not all HDR content is created equal).

But to answer your 2nd question...

Start by reading >THIS POST< from my "What is Color Volume" Thread.

The article I quote was written by professional colorist Alexis Van Hurkman. Alexis is also a director and writer. His works include the industry-standard "Color Correction Handbook: Professional Techniques for Video and Cinema" and its companion "Color Correction Look Book" as well as the "Encyclopedia of Color Correction".

Additionally, in the HDR section of Part 1 of my "What is Color Volume" article, which is the >FIRST POST< in that thread, I also have another quote by another professional colorist by the name of "Stephen Nakamura".

Stephen Nakamura a colorist with "Company 3" in LA, who has worked with really high profile directors and cinematographers and knows more about HDR than most people. He has graded in HDR movies like Exodus: Gods and Kings (the first ever movie to be HDR graded); Tomorrowland (Disney’s first HDR grade and a movie made for the format); The Martian; and Joy.

I hope those posts help clarify things for you.


Richard

Last edited by King Richard; 08-17-2017 at 02:54 AM.
King Richard is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 08-25-2017, 06:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 4,631
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2095 Post(s)
Liked: 2245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
The trouble with 100 to 120 nits brightness level is the TV is maxed out so you can't make it brighter. There in lies the biggest problem with HDR.
What?

LG OLED65E8 | Plinius Hiato | Dynaudio Contour 20 | Dynaudio Stand 6 | REL S/510 | PS Audio DirectStream Junior | Furman IT-Reference 15i | Sony PS4 Pro | Synology DS916+ | Apple TV 4K | BDI Mirage | NEEO | Focal Shape 40 | iFi Pro iDSD | iFi Pro iRack | roon
drewTT is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 08-26-2017, 11:18 AM
Senior Member
 
FullyArray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
What?
The APL (average picture level) of UHD is actually similar to blurays, which is 100-150 nits when watched under dark room calibration. It's a common misconception by the average joe that UHD will be brighter overall, when it's mostly for the highlights. Sometimes it can be darker overall, because of poor grading choices or other artistic reasons.

Because HDR by design maxes out your tv's light level setting you can't increase it further. It's not as simple to raise the APL like it was with blurays.
FullyArray is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply High Dynamic Range (HDR) & Wide Color Gamut (WCG)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off