Do you believe HDR will decrease OLED lifespan and do you use it? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you believe HDR will decrease OLED lifespan and do you use it?

I've read a few articles that claim HDR could reduce OLED lifespan due to the drastic increase in brightness. Since HDR is realatively new, no one knows yet how much the lifespan could be reduced.

I've played a few games in HDR on my OLED, and they look spectacular. Night scenes especially pop and it's easier to see details without straining your eyes. However, after hearing about the potential for HDR to kill your OLED, I'm afraid to continue using it.
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post #2 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 09:32 PM
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It's very fortunate that OLED wear is not a religion, and thus there's no room for belief or disbelief.

HDR is not new at all - just a year behind consumer WOLED technology itself - and there's no magic to it. We know exactly how much a TV's lifespan will be reduced. It will be reduced by the ratio of brightness of static elements in HDR to the same static elements in SDR.

Well-designed games will align their static elements to reflective white or "paper white" brightness, and thus will produce same or reduced degradation rate in HDR mode. Reflective white in HDR must be considerably lower than the only white point in SDR.

Worthless "we must have HDR" upconversions, which simply stretch their SDR image over the HDR range, may cause up to 2x the wear. This is only the case if the game actually has bright static HUD elements. 100% of such games are on consoles, to the best of my knowledge - no PC game uses a HDR mode unless it's actually doing HDR rendering and processing.
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post #3 of 13 Old 07-15-2019, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AnalogHD View Post
It's very fortunate that OLED wear is not a religion, and thus there's no room for belief or disbelief.

HDR is not new at all - just a year behind consumer WOLED technology itself - and there's no magic to it. We know exactly how much a TV's lifespan will be reduced. It will be reduced by the ratio of brightness of static elements in HDR to the same static elements in SDR.

Well-designed games will align their static elements to reflective white or "paper white" brightness, and thus will produce same or reduced degradation rate in HDR mode. Reflective white in HDR must be considerably lower than the only white point in SDR.

Worthless "we must have HDR" upconversions, which simply stretch their SDR image over the HDR range, may cause up to 2x the wear. This is only the case if the game actually has bright static HUD elements. 100% of such games are on consoles, to the best of my knowledge - no PC game uses a HDR mode unless it's actually doing HDR rendering and processing.
The game I'm currently playing on PC has a couple bright static HUD elements that seem to increase by a lot when HDR is turned on.

And how do we know exactly how much the lifespan will be reduced when your HDR viewing content will usually vary? Every article I've read claims no no one knows.
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post #4 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by LeoRavus View Post
And how do we know exactly how much the lifespan will be reduced when your HDR viewing content will usually vary? Every article I've read claims no no one knows.
If they write they don't know, it's probably because they don't. But they have no way of knowing what everyone else knows and doesn't.

Cryptic isn't the way to go here. Posting the game, approx hours, screenshots or crops of the elements will help people here determine the BI risk.
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post #5 of 13 Old 07-16-2019, 01:15 AM
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What are your SDR settings? If you're using the out-the-box SDR settings, your average picture level is probably just as bright, if not brighter, than HDR. Meaning panel lifespan probably isn't going to be much different whichever you use.

If you've dropped SDR to a peak of 100-120 nits, then HDR content will age the panel faster, then you have to ask what is your time frame? For someone like myself that upgrades every five years, I'm confident HDR viewing will not be an issue in the slightest.

If you want to limit your content to SDR, go ahead, but it seem a real waste of a good display.
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post #6 of 13 Old 09-02-2019, 09:24 AM
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Yes and no. Oled is organic and does perish, leading to color ****s, and potentially burn in. It's really comes down to quality control. In My experience, entry level oled tech has more issues than the higher end.
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-02-2019, 09:25 AM
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Yes and no. Oled is organic and does perish, leading to color shifts and potentially burn in. It's really comes down to quality control. In My experience, entry level oled tech has more issues than the higher end.
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post #8 of 13 Old 09-07-2019, 02:29 PM
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It's sad ,really sad that OLED owners have to worry about all this stuff with oled. And for what ,to say they have the so called king of tv's and technology. When in fact the opposite is true. Burn in depending on the panel will happen in 8 hours or 2 years , pixel degradation because oled is a organic technology. A total scam by LG to make a buck. Worse oled owners took the bait and talking to these people it's sad and obvious by them attacking the messenger instead of attacking LG or Sony and demanding their money back is easier then actually doing something to protect their investment.
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-03-2019, 08:12 PM
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I heard all the same arguments when I bought my plasma in 2005. 49,000 hours later and my plasma still looked great and zero image retention. The only thing that made me buy a new OLED is my plasma finally died. Of course my plasma wasn't HDR capable. I didn't want an LCD back-lit by LED's. To me LCD's just look like crap. I'm glad I bought my Sony OLED.

EDIT - I looked in WiKi (take it for what it's worth) and found this:

Quote:
Cause of degradation

This subsection may be too technical for most readers to understand. Please help improve it to make it understandable to non-experts, without removing the technical details. (April 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
Degradation occurs because of the accumulation of nonradiative recombination centers and luminescence quenchers in the emissive zone. It is said that the chemical breakdown in the semiconductors occurs in four steps:

recombination of charge carriers through the absorption of UV light
homolytic dissociation
subsequent radical addition reactions that form π radicals
disproportionation between two radicals resulting in hydrogen-atom transfer reactions[86]
However, some manufacturers' displays aim to increase the lifespan of OLED displays, pushing their expected life past that of LCD displays by improving light outcoupling, thus achieving the same brightness at a lower drive current.[87][88] In 2007, experimental OLEDs were created which can sustain 400 cd/m2 of luminance for over 198,000 hours for green OLEDs and 62,000 hours for blue OLEDs.[89] In 2012, OLED lifetime to half of the initial brightness was improved to 900,000 hours for red, 1,450,000 hours for yellow and 400,000 hours for green at an initial luminance of 1,000 cd/m2.[90] Proper encapsulation is critical for prolonging an OLED display's lifetime, as the OLED light emitting electroluminescent materials are sensitive to oxygen and moisture. [91]

Ambox current red.svg
This article needs to be updated. In particular: Lifespan info is 11 years old. Please update this section to reflect recent events or newly available information. (January 2019)
Pretty old info so some improvements have had to be made.

Sony 2019 Sony XBR-55A8G
Panasonic TH-42PX50U - 49,203 hours! Retired :-(

Various "cheap" TV's in kids room and video game room.

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post #10 of 13 Old 11-10-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Quantum TV View Post
Yes and no. Oled is organic and does perish, leading to color shifts and potentially burn in. It's really comes down to quality control. In My experience, entry level oled tech has more issues than the higher end.
"Organic" has nothing to do with life span. It just means a compound with carbon and hydrogen. Salt is not 'organic', how easily does it perish in water? Ever seen inorganic steel rust; doesn't last nearly as long as an OLED. Get it?
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-11-2019, 06:30 PM
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The answer is definitely yes.

it's 1 of the reasons that Sony stopped making OLED mastering monitors. They were burning out very fast and becoming very expensive to keep replacing (30k a pop). Luckily pricing are dropping so it's an easier pill to swallow down the road to have to replace. a few years back when consumer oleds were only 400-500 nits, they secretly had 1000nit oleds behind the scenes, and according to Tyler Pruitt of Spectracal, they were burning in out in less than a month. they've since improved, but not 100% overcome.


Upcoming Quantum Dot Oleds are said to improve the lifespan even more.

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post #12 of 13 Old 11-13-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LeoRavus View Post
The game I'm currently playing on PC has a couple bright static HUD elements that seem to increase by a lot when HDR is turned on.
I would use common sense. If it's really bright and static, turn down the brightness and minimize on-screen time.

BTW, do you know if the game's visual content was produced with 10-bit pixel depth in a Rec. 2020 color space? Or are you looking at SDR mapped to HDR?

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Originally Posted by Ken Masters View Post
What are your SDR settings? If you're using the out-the-box SDR settings, your average picture level is probably just as bright, if not brighter, than HDR. Meaning panel lifespan probably isn't going to be much different whichever you use.
^This.

I think people displaying SDR content using the TV's standard or vivid "torch mode" presets are far more likely to run into trouble than people who view a lot of HDR content with a calibrated set or using close to calibrated presets.

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Originally Posted by theandies View Post
I heard all the same arguments when I bought my plasma in 2005. 49,000 hours later and my plasma still looked great and zero image retention. The only thing that made me buy a new OLED is my plasma finally died. Of course my plasma wasn't HDR capable.
Yep. I heard the same warnings about how my expensive new Pioneer plasma was doomed to burn-in. 12 years later and it never happened, even with a fair bit of console gaming on it. A decade before that, I kept hearing that my CRT RPTV was doomed. It turned out OK too. So I am not particularly worried about burn-in.

But if I owned a sports bar and needed to choose a TV that could handle displaying the ESPN logo on bright settings for like 12 hours a day, I would not buy an OLED.

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post #13 of 13 Old 11-14-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Red MC View Post
I would use common sense. If it's really bright and static, turn down the brightness and minimize on-screen time.

BTW, do you know if the game's visual content was produced with 10-bit pixel depth in a Rec. 2020 color space? Or are you looking at SDR mapped to HDR?



^This.

I think people displaying SDR content using the TV's standard or vivid "torch mode" presets are far more likely to run into trouble than people who view a lot of HDR content with a calibrated set or using close to calibrated presets.



Yep. I heard the same warnings about how my expensive new Pioneer plasma was doomed to burn-in. 12 years later and it never happened, even with a fair bit of console gaming on it. A decade before that, I kept hearing that my CRT RPTV was doomed. It turned out OK too. So I am not particularly worried about burn-in.

But if I owned a sports bar and needed to choose a TV that could handle displaying the ESPN logo on bright settings for like 12 hours a day, I would not buy an OLED.

But if you owned a sports bar and had ESPN on it 12 hours a day I'm sure you're not going to switch it to Discovery etc. Those TV's in sports bars usually stay on the same channel 12 hours a day so patrons would never see/know the logo is burned in.

Sony 2019 Sony XBR-55A8G
Panasonic TH-42PX50U - 49,203 hours! Retired :-(

Various "cheap" TV's in kids room and video game room.
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