Director Barry Sonnenfeld Bashes HDR, ‘Stupid’ 8K - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 09-16-2019, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Director Barry Sonnenfeld Bashes HDR, ‘Stupid’ 8K

Here we go again...seems everytime new tech comes along, the Luddittes moan the growing pains.

https://www.cepro.com/audio-video/ho...bashes-hdr-8k/

We went through this with vinyl>CD, 16/44 audio > hires audio, LD>DVD, 1080p bt709 8bit BD> 4K bt2020 10bit HDR BD...

I think most of his complaints are tech growing pains re: the film creation workflow. Looks like more work needs to be done to optimize image capture process through the display with the consumer.

As Directors, Cinematographers and others involved develop the tech, tools and methoiods moving forwards, I think these issues will be resolved.

Its not All or Nothing- Sonnenfeld makes good points re: not All films need/ought to be shot HDR, just like not All Films need to be color, or 1.78 or 2.35, etc.
Director's choice. But stream providers want the HDR marketing on Everything.

Interesting tech issues re: moire on fabrics shot at 4K+, non-issues with lower res cinematography. Again, resolvable moving forward through shooting or video processing techniques and ongoing innovation (Dithering, etc)


While IMO HDR, 10bit+/color and ever larger color spaces are all Good Things and desired by most HT-philes and rate higher than resolution increases, moar pixels is never a Bad Thing in the long run

As we progress through 8K maybe 16K in the home (Skies the limit for commercial displays at 40ft+ wide), they might be able to put the extra pixels to use in other cool ways, ie use clusters to make larger "virtual pixels", assigning color and/or luminence separately to the "sub pixels" of a group to increase/manage detail, contrast, gamma, colorspace size even more vs that achievable on a per pixel basis.
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Last edited by Rgb; 09-16-2019 at 07:38 AM.
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-24-2019, 10:34 AM
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So I checked out his filmography.....and now I definitely don't care about any of his opinions
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post #3 of 12 Old 09-28-2019, 10:31 PM
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So I checked out his filmography.....and now I definitely don't care about any of his opinions
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He says the studio expanded the bright areas by manipulating the contrast and saturated the colors during the color timing process.

“Even after spending tens of thousands of dollars in time, we could not the highlights to appear to be over-exposed,” he says disappointingly.
This guy is an idiot, and sounds like the archetypal director who only shows up for the final screening to review the color correction, but doesn't actually spend time working with the colorist. If he doesn't like how his movies look when graded in HDR maybe he should get off his ass and spend more time in the color correction suite, learn how to work with the format and communicate how he wants the movie to look. I've worked on enough projects to know a capable colorist can dial in the appearance of highlights in HDR to attain any desired balance of detail vs over-exposure.

Everything he says about 4K/8K just indicates a lazy attitude toward hiding flaws behind low image quality.
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post #4 of 12 Old 10-08-2019, 08:40 PM
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I didn't even look to see what he said, but I agree that 8k is a stupid waste for HT.

In order to see the benefit of 8k, the viewing distance would need to be 1/2 screen width, i.e. 5' from a 150" screen.
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-09-2019, 09:34 AM
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I didn't even look to see what he said, but I agree that 8k is a stupid waste for HT.
Overkill is nothing new in the AV industry, and in most cases it doesn't hurt anyone.

But streaming 8k is madness, much more if there is no visible improvement. Even streaming 4k makes no sense.
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post #6 of 12 Old 10-15-2019, 11:00 PM
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Overkill is nothing new in the AV industry, and in most cases it doesn't hurt anyone.

Not literally, but many get less performance than they could have for the same $ spent more wisely.

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post #7 of 12 Old 10-18-2019, 12:20 AM
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I didn't even look to see what he said, but I agree that 8k is a stupid waste for HT.
The article is worth the read.

I can appreciate both the cinematography of a Marvel film, as well as a purposeful lower dynamic range for cinematic effect.

To the degree HDR is still a wild west with regard to any consistent reference standards, few of us are watching the same image.

Hopefully tone mapping can help achieve more consistency for the end user, but the nature of dynamic tone mapping also begs the question of display techniques vs creator intent.

I love the concept of day and date feature release. Doubt it will happen with the commitment we are seeing to theatrical release.

Distribution entries like Netflix asserting creative control over form of the content does sound like a slippery slope.

I didn't sound like Barry didn't understand or appreciate the grading/colorist process. I thought it was clear he made creative choices that were supplanted by Netflix, for marketing purposes.

I don't need, and might not ever need 8k resolution in my HT, but I can appreciate Joe six pack being exploited by the marketing campaign.

I might not like many of Barry's films, but I have admiration for anyone committed to the art.
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post #8 of 12 Old 11-08-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by EvLee View Post
This guy is an idiot, and sounds like the archetypal director who only shows up for the final screening to review the color correction, but doesn't actually spend time working with the colorist. If he doesn't like how his movies look when graded in HDR maybe he should get off his ass and spend more time in the color correction suite, learn how to work with the format and communicate how he wants the movie to look. I've worked on enough projects to know a capable colorist can dial in the appearance of highlights in HDR to attain any desired balance of detail vs over-exposure.

Everything he says about 4K/8K just indicates a lazy attitude toward hiding flaws behind low image quality.
What is your position on 8k, if I may ask?

I have seen the effect on mainly Japanese demo reels where car headlights specular highlights are very focussed, otherwise, am not totally convinced.
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post #9 of 12 Old 11-08-2019, 02:14 PM
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I have seen the effect on mainly Japanese demo reels where car headlights specular highlights are very focussed, otherwise, am not totally convinced.

How do you know it wouldn't look just as good on 4k (assuming a realistic viewing distance)?

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post #10 of 12 Old 11-08-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
I didn't even look to see what he said, but I agree that 8k is a stupid waste for HT.

In order to see the benefit of 8k, the viewing distance would need to be 1/2 screen width, i.e. 5' from a 150" screen.
Lol i sit four feet from my screen so its all good .

Hopefully 8k projectors at a reasonable price get here in four to six years.

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post #11 of 12 Old 11-08-2019, 02:30 PM
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Lol i sit four feet from my screen so its all good .

Is it at least 8' wide?

Otherwise you're not likely to see the difference.

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post #12 of 12 Old 11-08-2019, 09:23 PM
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How do you know it wouldn't look just as good on 4k (assuming a realistic viewing distance)?
It is just what strikes you in the Samsung Private booth, it is something completely new. Never experienced before. Is it something worth pursuing for movie watching. NO. Let's get CGI done in 4k first and then we can talk.
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