Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors? - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #871 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Thank you for clarifying the DCI/BT2020 settings in the Vertex2. Like you, I do not send the HDR metadata so that's one step I don't need to worry about. If you don't mind, I have one question about the Vertex2: Whenever I switch to Automix, I lose all sound ( I am using the audio out on the Vertex2 to my receiver). Everything works fine in Custom mode.
I don't use the HDMI audio output on my Diva. I would think that either the Full or Audio Out Audio Flag radio buttons would be correct for Automix in your case.
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post #872 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 12:29 PM
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Theory Confirmed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Another approach is to create a DV block with your own primaries, say BT.2020, so you're not having to change mode. In that case I'd set a maxPQ value of 1000. I've attached such an EDID in case you want to give that a go. (I haven't tried this yet to see if the player actually honours these primaries by the way )
I've taken 3 shots with different EDIDs and profiles:
Pict7: Mark Swift EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict8: A1 EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict9: A1 EDID with A1 profile

It's very satisfying to see the results are exactly as predicted - the reddish tint (Pict8) that's been haunting us for months is due to the profile mismatch. As long as the profile matches the EDID there is no reddish tint (Pict7, Pict9).

The effects of MaxPQ are yet to be investigated more closely. So far it has been inconclusive.

Thanks again to @bmandra for solving the puzzle!
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-16-2020 at 04:14 PM.
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post #873 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I've 3 shots with the different EDIDs and profiles:
Pict7: Mark Swift EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict8: A1 EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict9: A1 EDID with A1 profile

It's very satisfying to see the results are exactly as predicted - the reddish tint (Pict8) that's been haunting us for months is due to the profile mismatch. As long as the profile matches the EDID there is no reddish tint (Pict7, Pict9).

Thanks again to @bmandra for solving the puzzle!
Thanks to all the guys on the forum who originally found this hack and have done a great job testing and validating all the results. I’m just glad I was able to contribute a small piece.
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post #874 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Hi.

Can someone please tell me the difference between FULL and AUDIO OUT on the Automix EDID section please.

Tried looking in the Vertex 2 manual, but I can't find a specific mention of it.

Cheers.
Anyone?

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post #875 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Anyone?
I don’t think this is the right thread, even though there are some Vertex users here. Why not ask in the Vertex 2 thread?
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post #876 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I don’t think this is the right thread, even though there are some Vertex users here. Why not ask in the Vertex 2 thread?
Good idea! shoulda thought of that.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #877 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I've taken 3 shots with different EDIDs and profiles:
Pict7: Mark Swift EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict8: A1 EDID with BT2020 profile
Pict9: A1 EDID with A1 profile
You can see some minor differences in between the two, with the A1 version showing better gradations in the red and magenta. The images are in AdobeRGB colour space and will look slightly desaturated if your monitor and browser do not support it, but the differences are representative of the actual projected images. I can see the differences clearly on my iPad Pro, but not on my laptop screen.
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post #878 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The Sony A1 and JVC projectors have a colour gamut that’s close to DCI-P3, so the simplest way for JVC projectors is to use the A1 EDID in the HD Fury, and the DCI-P3 colour profile in the projector. Then use a 1000 nit custom curve that’s appropriate for your system (primarily matching the diffuse white level). The last step is no different than what you would do for HDR10.

A refinement would be to measure your projector’s actual gamut and create custom EDID and colour profile based on that, and possibly adjust the Max PQ value.
I loaded your A1 profile (filtered, for rs540) and have currently gone back to the preloaded A1 EDID in the Vertex2. It works. Are you saying I can use a built in DCI-P3 profile? I will have to look for it. My preference would be to use HDR or Cinema mode but those have limited color profiles available, and no custom modes. I don't recall anything labeled like DCI-P3

I have not tried 3D while using the preloaded A1 EDID since making this change, but I recall having to switch to Automix to get 3D to work. How can I get the A1 LLDV function AND 3D? Deltacast E-EDID looks like it is free but you have to register as a customer?

Where are you guys using the string generated by bmandra's tool? I could not see any obvious place to paste that in.


EDIT: read your later post now, I guess I would be better off with MarkSwift's EDID posted on the previous page, but I'll still have to check on 3D. looked at vertex manual and it says the A1 EDID includes 3D, so I must have been using the LG in my last configuration.

Last edited by ScottAvery; 02-16-2020 at 08:07 PM.
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post #879 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
I loaded your A1 profile (filtered, for rs540) and have currently gone back to the preloaded A1 EDID in the Vertex2. It works. Are you saying I can use a built in DCI-P3 profile? I will have to look for it. My preference would be to use HDR or Cinema mode but those have limited color profiles available, and no custom modes. I don't recall anything labeled like DCI-P3.
The NX models come with the DCI-P3 profile. For the e-shift models, many madVR users already use P3 for their ripped videos. If you don't have it then there's no particular reason to use that instead of the Sony A1 profile.

If you prefer the HDR picture mode, then just use the BT2020 EDID that Mark Swift created.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-16-2020 at 04:27 PM.
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post #880 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:21 PM
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I tried to create a custom EDID with the primaries I got from my recent calibration of my PJ (except the blue which is out of the limits...). However I still get the red push? Do I need to transform these xy coordinates somehow before inputting to get the custom DV values or something?

If, however, I use a custom EDID with 2020 primaries, then everything looks good. My PJ gets decent coverage of DCI-P3, so is that why the 2020 primaries seem to work ok? Why does using the actual xy coordinates from my calibration result in the red push? I guess I am not understanding exactly how to configure this?

DV string with my primaries I used: EB:01:460:00:45:03:90:8C:5C:5F:A7
DV string with 2020 primaries I used: EB:01:460:00:45:03:90:58:98:AA:5C
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post #881 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordivergens View Post
I tried to create a custom EDID with the primaries I got from my recent calibration of my PJ (except the blue which is out of the limits...). However I still get the red push? Do I need to transform these xy coordinates somehow before inputting to get the custom DV values or something?

If, however, I use a custom EDID with 2020 primaries, then everything looks good. My PJ gets decent coverage of DCI-P3, so is that why the 2020 primaries seem to work ok? Why does using the actual xy coordinates from my calibration result in the red push? I guess I am not understanding exactly how to configure this?

DV string with my primaries I used: EB:01:460:00:45:03:90:8C:5C:5F:A7
DV string with 2020 primaries I used: EB:01:460:00:45:03:90:58:98:AA:5C
If you read the last few posts (in particular post 872 just a few posts up), if you’re creating a custom EDID you should use the A1 profile if your gamut is close to DCI-P3, or better still, create your own custom profile based on the measured gamut.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-17-2020 at 06:50 AM.
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post #882 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If you read the last few posts, you should use the A1 profile if your gamut is close to DCI-P3, or better still, create your own custom profile based on the measured gamut
When you say A1 profile, are you talking about for the JVC projectors? I've got an Epson 5040UB.
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post #883 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordivergens View Post
When you say A1 profile, are you talking about for the JVC projectors? I've got an Epson 5040UB.
As discussed in the above posts, unless you can create your own colour profiles there’s no point in creating a custom EDID, as the two have to match each other.

I don’t think the 5040UB can use custom profiles, so you should just use the BT2020 EDID.
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post #884 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
As discussed in the above posts, unless you can create your own colour profiles there’s no point in creating a custom EDID, as the two have to match each other.

I don’t think the 5040UB can use custom profiles, so you should just use the BT2020 EDID.
Thanks, makes sense. I will use the BT2020 EDID then.
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post #885 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 08:21 PM
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Oh man, I assumed hitting refresh in the server gui reloaded the page, but I logged in from another machine and got all new content that helps the last few pages make a lot more sense.
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post #886 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 09:55 PM
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Watched some content with both options:

1. HDfury: "A1 LLDV" EDID 5 + JVC: custom A1 Color Profile
2. HDfury: "Full + BT.2020 LLDV" EDID loaded to custom slot 10 + JVC: BT.2020 Color Profile

Same 1000 nit Arve curve used wuth both options.

Both looked very good with Dolby Vision content from my ATV4K. Difficult for me to see any difference. No trace of any unwanted red with either.

I then watched some 1080P SDR content (Starz season premiere of Outlander) on my ATV4K that upscaled it to 4K60, converted it to Dolby Vision, and output it as LLDV. Looked good, probably the best I have seen any Starz/HBO/Showtime content look. Colors appeared natural, unlike some SDR to HDR conversions I have seen before that looked over-cooked. This was with option 2.

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post #887 of 1431 Old 02-16-2020, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Watched some content with both options:

1. HDfury: "A1 LLDV" EDID 5 + JVC: custom A1 Color Profile
2. HDfury: "Full + BT.2020 LLDV" EDID loaded to custom slot 10 + JVC: BT.2020 Color Profile

Same 1000 nit Arve curve used wuth both options.

Both looked very good with Dolby Vision content from my ATV4K. Difficult for me to see any difference. No trace of any unwanted red with either.

I then watched some 1080P SDR content (Starz season premiere of Outlander) on my ATV4K that upscaled it to 4K60, converted it to Dolby Vision, and output it as LLDV. Looked good, probably the best I have seen any Starz/HBO/Showtime content look. Colors appeared natural, unlike some SDR to HDR conversions I have seen before that looked over-cooked. This was with option 2.
Lately, I find myself watching everything (SDR Blu ray, 1080p SDR, HDR10) converted to LLDV with Dom's A1 profile and 85/1000 nit curve, and I am increasingly surprised as to how impressive the results are. For the most part, I think the dreaded red tint has been defeated with the A1 profile and the added ability to create custom DV strings. Your option 2 sounds interesting and I will give it go next time I fire up my PJ.
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post #888 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Lately, I find myself watching everything (SDR Blu ray, 1080p SDR, HDR10) converted to LLDV with Dom's A1 profile and 85/1000 nit curve, and I am increasingly surprised as to how impressive the results are. For the most part, I think the dreaded red tint has been defeated with the A1 profile and the added ability to create custom DV strings. Your option 2 sounds interesting and I will give it go next time I fire up my PJ.
I'm with you the red tint is gone and everything is converted to LLDV.... Last night I watched parasite through apple it was hdr10 converted to DV and it was absolutely amazing. Very bright image...

You should try watching the last 15 min of moanna.
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post #889 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 05:48 AM
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I have a JVC RS440 (so no filter), can I use the custom DV string loaded to my Vertex2 and just the standard HDR profile on my projector?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Lately, I find myself watching everything (SDR Blu ray, 1080p SDR, HDR10) converted to LLDV with Dom's A1 profile and 85/1000 nit curve, and I am increasingly surprised as to how impressive the results are. For the most part, I think the dreaded red tint has been defeated with the A1 profile and the added ability to create custom DV strings. Your option 2 sounds interesting and I will give it go next time I fire up my PJ.
Toggling between the first and last thumbnails of post 872 shows no discernible differences between the two options. However, there are some visible differences in the images in post 877.
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post #891 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMILANI View Post
I have a JVC RS440 (so no filter), can I use the custom DV string loaded to my Vertex2 and just the standard HDR profile on my projector?
Yes, just use Mark Swift’s BT.2020 EDID.
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post #892 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMILANI View Post
I have a JVC RS440 (so no filter), can I use the custom DV string loaded to my Vertex2 and just the standard HDR profile on my projector?
Yes, just use Mark Swift’️s BT.2020 EDID.
Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
As long as the colour profile has the same primaries as the DV block defines then you just use the A1 EDID as is. This is what @Dominic Chan has done with the profile he posted I believe.

Or you can create your own using those primaries with the JVC calibration software. The latest primaries from @bmandra 's superb analysis are:


Sony A1 Rx: 0.680 Ry: 0.316 Gx: 0.262 Gy: 0.688 Bx: 0.148 By: 0.059

So you can bang those in the Create screen of the Calibration Software.


A slightly cheaty approach is simply to use the built in DCI P3 colour profile since the primaries are as close as dammit anyway.

Another approach is to create a DV block with your own primaries, say BT.2020, so you're not having to change mode. In that case I'd set a maxPQ value of 1000. I've attached such an EDID in case you want to give that a go. (I haven't tried this yet to see if the player actually honours these primaries by the way )

Personally I wouldn't use Automix because due to EDID size limitations it can become a bit of a crap shoot - I'd recommend using DeltaCast EDID creator and stick only what you want in the EDID and load it into slot 10 on the Vertex.

One thing to remember if you use Deltacast is that the DV string created by @bmandra 's excellent utility is the string as it appears in the actual EDID block and not as it's presented in the VSVD block in the Deltacast software - the full string has 2 initial bytes (length and 0x01) and the 3 IEEE OUI bytes are transposed.

So as an example from the attached EDID, the actual DV block as created by @bmandra 's utility is:

EB: 01: 46: D0: 00: 45: 03: 90: 58: 98: AA: 5C

But when entering this into Deltacast you ignore the first two bytes (the software adds them), transpose the next 3 and enter into the IEEE Registration Id (OUI) and then copy the remaining bytes as is like this:

Hi Mark, the attached file full +BT2020, is that a colour profile for the JVC projector or is it something I load into vertex 2?
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post #894 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Toggling between the first and last thumbnails of post 872 shows no discernible differences between the two options. However, there are some visible differences in the images in post 877.
I have been toggling between the two for the past 10 minutes, to no avail---can't see a difference. But, as you said, the differences are apparent only on your Ipad pro. Clearly, my laptop is not up to it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
I have been toggling between the two for the past 10 minutes, to no avail---can't see a difference. But, as you said, the differences are apparent only on your Ipad pro. Clearly, my laptop is not up to it.
Most laptop screens don’t even cover the full Rec. 709. Try them on your HDR TV.
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post #896 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rilyas77 View Post
Hi Mark, the attached file full +BT2020, is that a colour profile for the JVC projector or is it something I load into vertex 2?
To the Vertex2.

Download and extract the bin file from the zip.

In the Vertex2 browser UI, at the bottom of the EDID tab... UPLOAD EDID TABLES.

Use the Choose File button to navigate to the bin file you extracted from the zip.

Select a free custom EDID slot in the drop down so you don't overwrite one; number 10 should be available. And 10 is 2x5, 5 being the A1 LLDV EDID so it makes it easier to remember the EDID slot. At least until HDfury adds capablility to name the custom EDIDs.

Click the Send EDID button.

Next select the Custom radio button at the top of the page, and select EDID 10 from the drop down list. Typically, in most cases you can assign the EDID to the Input 0 slot and mark the other Inputs as Follow Input 0.
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post #897 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 02:42 PM
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How long before someone creates a nice PDF of how to do this for those of us who are not computer programmers or custom calibrators?

A nice PDF called "Projector Dolby Vision & DTM for Dummies"?

I'd gladly hit the donate button pretty quickly for whomever takes this on.

Also, does this eliminate the need to have a Vertex automatically change the JVC preset based on the MaxFLL & CLL of the current content? If it doesn't negate that need, I'd also donate for a step by step PDF for that process.
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post #898 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rilyas77 View Post
Hi Mark, the attached file full +BT2020, is that a colour profile for the JVC projector or is it something I load into vertex 2?
Just to echo what Claw said, it's an EDID to be loaded into a spare slot on your Vertex which allows you to use LLDV sources with a standard HDR setting on your PJ.

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post #899 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 02:57 PM
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I have been toggling between the two for the past 10 minutes, to no avail---can't see a difference. But, as you said, the differences are apparent only on your Ipad pro. Clearly, my laptop is not up to it.
Here are the de-saturated versions that allows the differences to be illustrated on less capable monitors and laptop screens. Image 31=P3; image 30=BT2020.

The original comparison is here, if you’re using wide-gamut monitor to view the differences.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-12-2020 at 04:56 PM.
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post #900 of 1431 Old 02-17-2020, 03:04 PM
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Here are the de-saturated versions that illustrate the differences on less capable monitors and laptop screens.


So for those with JVC and specifically I have x770 the best option is to select the A1 EDID in vertex and then upload the A1 colour profile (with filter since I have x770)?


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