Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors? - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Sorry, here is my config. I may have to go ahead and order an ATV4k. Is there a particular feature the Shield Pro would need to implement to work like the ATV4k does in this manner? Or is it the kind of thing where we just need to test after they have done an update.


Also, if I figure out why my screen is turning green when selecting HDR+ or HLG, does this mean the shield pro will be able to process these formats with my JVC RS540? I'm guessing not.


Correction: When HDR+ is selected, it does not allow DV to be enabled on my projector and goes back to the regular HDR support. When HLG is selected, it turns the display green.
HLG/HDR flag not checked on this config, so i cannot say if it play a role, you need to export config when you have that green you mention.
Also keep in mind that if you do any edid changes > RESTART YOUR SOURCE, otherwise issue is may be just normal.

I'm not sure about your source question, may be it was for someone else...

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post #1022 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Curently, the only players known to be able to convert all content to Dolby Vision and output as LLDV include:

Oppo 203/205, ATV4K, Sony X700, and X800/M2

...
Is the new SONY X1100 also capable of converting ALL CONTENT to Dolby Vision and output as LLDV?

I and many AVS members have this player and need to know if this is the case since the SONY X1100 player must be MANUALLY SET to output/turn on Dolby Atmos, and the player continues to output Dolby Atmos until this feature is MANUALLY disengaged/turned "off".
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post #1023 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Hey jorge, my display goes all green when I select HLG under Automix. Does yours?


Also, did you know you can save your settings on the config tab, then RESET before you upgrade the firmware? Once upgraded, it's super easy to import them back in.
I did not know that thanks. No my display does not go green.. am i even supposed to have hlg selected there?

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post #1024 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Also jorge, are you using an Apple TV4k and that's why you can send LLDV for all content? Trying to understand but it seems like I'm not able to do this with the Shield Pro--meaning convert all content to LLDV and stay in HDR full time.
Yes i have an apple and everything gets converted perfectly..

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post #1025 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
HLG/HDR flag not checked on this config, so i cannot say if it play a role, you need to export config when you have that green you mention.
Also keep in mind that if you do any edid changes > RESTART YOUR SOURCE, otherwise issue is may be just normal.

I'm not sure about your source question, may be it was for someone else...
Okay, I'll try both again and restart my source and if it persists, I'll post my config. Thanks!

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post #1026 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 08:23 PM
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Hi all,

Last night I tested LLDV in my system, I wish to share my first impression and seeking your valuable advice.

Players:
1. Panasonic UB9000
2. Zidoo Z9
3. Shield TV Pro 2019

LLDV test
1. Panasonic UB9000
UHD Disc, Netflix - Passed

2. ZidooZ9S
UHD.iso BDMV - failed
(I even don't know whether Z9S supports Dolby Vision)

3. Shield TV Pro 2019
UHD.iso, Netflix - failed
(My friend remind me I should go to setting and let Shield TV detect the EDID again, will test again)


Vertex2 Setting
Custom 8 LG C8 [LLDV]

Projector Setting
HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping: OFF

Panasonic UB9000 tested and compared movies

Disc
Aquaman
Compared to HDR10 (LG DTM:OFF) the high light details were lost, seems like the Contrast has been pushed too high.

John Wick 3
Not quite different to HDR10

Ready Player One
the color more POP than HDR10, and the brightness level is same as HDR10

Spider-Man: Far from Home
Not much different to HDR10, the image seems a little bit brighter.

13 hours the secret soldiers of benghazi
Not much different to HDR10


Netflix
Even I turned off SDR/HDR conversion (network service) in UB9000 , the Netflix forced ouput DV to Vertex2, it makes Netflix menu very bright lost the details.

And when I got Dolby Vision, I only got DD+ 5.1, if I got HDR then Dolby Atmos came back again, UB9000 wouldn't give me double feature...



6 underground
Compare to HDR10, the color saturation lower and the image is brighter, the high light details were lost.

Memories of the Alhambra (SDR)
Compare to HDR/SDR conversion, HDR10 provide more natural, on LLDV seem have more progressing and some red color being too bright especially on the Actress' lip gloss, I believe it is red tint issue you mentioned above.

The Last Thing He Wanted (SDR)
Do not notice any big difference to HDR10.

The result matched the test by Vincent of HDTV Test, Panasonic Player will blow high light details in Dolby Vision mode.

During the DV play back, I tried to change the figure HDR metadata (after "Create IF" and then "Send HDR") but it seems take no effect and didn't show any info on OSD of Vertex2, might be something missing and will try again.

Up to now, it is not much difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision in my system (UB9000 + Vertex2 + LG Projector), will keep testing different HDR metadata and report here.

Last thing I don't understand, did Vertex2 tell the player to do the calculation of LLDV as per the custom HDR metadate which I inputted?

Thank you very much.
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Anthony Chan
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post #1027 of 2220 Old 03-10-2020, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Sorry, here is my config. I may have to go ahead and order an ATV4k. Is there a particular feature the Shield Pro would need to implement to work like the ATV4k does in this manner? Or is it the kind of thing where we just need to test after they have done an update.


Also, if I figure out why my screen is turning green when selecting HDR+ or HLG, does this mean the shield pro will be able to process these formats with my JVC RS540? I'm guessing not.


Correction: When HDR+ is selected, it does not allow DV to be enabled on my projector and goes back to the regular HDR support. When HLG is selected, it turns the display green.
The ability to convert SDR or HDR10 to Dolby Vision is a major feature that a only few players have implemented. I would not expect the Shield to implement this as a firmware update but it is possible. I believe they might need to coordinate introduction of such a feature with support and permission from Dolby Labs.

Regarding the issues you are having with Automix, if you switch to Custom EDID mode and select the A1 LLDV EDID 5 do you have similar issues?

CJ
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post #1028 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
The ability to convert SDR or HDR10 to Dolby Vision is a major feature that a only few players have implemented. I would not expect the Shield to implement this as a firmware update but it is possible. I believe they might need to coordinate introduction of such a feature with support and permission from Dolby Labs.

Regarding the issues you are having with Automix, if you switch to Custom EDID mode and select the A1 LLDV EDID 5 do you have similar issues?
Thanks claw. I'm trying to hold out until the end of march and see if they announce a new ATV4k. Not sure if I can hold out until then.

For my green display issue, I selected HLG and restarted the Shield Pro and it's working now so restarting the source was the issue. When would I expect to see HLG passed, do any streaming sources support it?

After the firmware update I followed instructions from the sister thread on another forum. Can you answer something for me? When we select the option "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV", that is sending HDR and not LLDV to the display, correct? Is this the correct setting for all sources, regardless of it's ability to pass LLDV for all content or should I not be selecting this on the Shield Pro?


Edit: HDFury posted HERE explaining my last question very well.
Attached Files
File Type: txt VERTEX2-CONFIG-3_11_2020.txt (11.6 KB, 11 views)

Video: JVC RS540 w/Lens & 122" 2.35:1 CIH / HDFury Vertex 2 w/Dolby Vision
Audio: Marantz SR7010 / XPA-3 / UPA-7 Sources: Nvidia Shield Pro / Xbox One X
7. Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 EX (L R C), Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE (side & rear)
2. Subs: SVS PC-2000 & eD A3-300 12" / Sensory: Aura Pro Bass Shakers
4 HTM-200SE for Atmos/DTS:X Theater Pics / Desktop

Last edited by TKNice; 03-12-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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post #1029 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 09:16 AM
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Hi,

Tried HDR10+, also passed!

https://youtu.be/mRJVJdEeo8E

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post #1030 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chhanthony View Post
Hi,

Tried HDR10+, also passed!

https://youtu.be/mRJVJdEeo8E
Cool! What was your source/app for playback?
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Audio: Marantz SR7010 / XPA-3 / UPA-7 Sources: Nvidia Shield Pro / Xbox One X
7. Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 EX (L R C), Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE (side & rear)
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post #1031 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 11:49 AM
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There's no smoke and mirrors involved in playing back HDR10+ content

It's exactly the same stream as HDR10 except for the provision of frame by frame or scene by scene meta-data which is of course completely ignored by a non HDR10+ display, even if you supply an HDR10+ EDID from the Vertex.
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post #1032 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Thanks claw. I'm trying to hold out until the end of march and see if they announce a new ATV4k. Not sure if I can hold out until then.

For my green display issue, I selected HLG and restarted the Shield Pro and it's working now so restarting the source was the issue. When would I expect to see HLG passed, do any streaming sources support it?

After the firmware update I followed these instructions from the sister thread on the other forum. Can you answer something for me? When we select the option "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV", that is sending HDR and not LLDV to the display, correct? Is this the correct setting for all sources, regardless of it's ability to pass LLDV for all content or should I not be selecting this on the Shield Pro?


Edit: HDFury posted HERE explaining my last question very well.
You can get HLG from some YouTube content, but that depends upon whether the player you use supports HLG as well.
Directv 4K uses HLG for its 4K HDR channels.
BBC iPlayer outputs HLG.
Thats all of the sources I know; there could be more.


Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV", that is sending HDR and not LLDV to the display, correct?

No, you are still sending LLDV content but with HDR10 metadata included. The HDfury device does not touch the actual LLDV content that it receives; it just adds the HDR10 metadata layer that assists some display devices in treating the LLDV as if it is HDR10 since they don't support Dolby Vision.
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Last edited by claw; 03-11-2020 at 12:58 PM.
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post #1033 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
You can get HLG from some YouTube content, but that depends upon whether the player you use supports HLG as well.

Directv 4K uses HLG for its 4K HDR channels.

BBC iPlayer outputs HLG.

Thats all of the sources I know; there could be more.





Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV", that is sending HDR and not LLDV to the display, correct?



No, you are still sending LLDV content but with HDR10 metadata included. The HDfury device does not touch the actual LLDV content that it receives; it just adds the HDR10 metadata layer that assists some display devices in treating the LLDV as if it is HDR10 since they don't support Dolby Vision.
I dont know if i mentioned this before but the H LG curve I download it from you guys is amazing. Day and night compared to what I had...

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post #1034 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 04:25 PM
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I dont know if i mentioned this before but the H LG curve I download it from you guys is amazing. Day and night compared to what I had...
All thanks goes to Manni for creating it quite some time ago. At the time he wasn't certain how good it might or might not be.

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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
There's no smoke and mirrors involved in playing back HDR10+ content

It's exactly the same stream as HDR10 except for the provision of frame by frame or scene by scene meta-data which is of course completely ignored by a non HDR10+ display, even if you supply an HDR10+ EDID from the Vertex.
Oh, so I just watching HDR10, thanks!

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post #1036 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post
Is the new SONY X1100 also capable of converting ALL CONTENT to Dolby Vision and output as LLDV?

I and many AVS members have this player and need to know if this is the case since the SONY X1100 player must be MANUALLY SET to output/turn on Dolby Atmos, and the player continues to output Dolby Atmos until this feature is MANUALLY disengaged/turned "off".
The Sony UBP-X800M2 and the Sony UBP-X1100ES are almost identical except the 1100ES has a pair of analog audio(L, R) outputs, a detachable power cord and of course the 1100ES is more expensive.

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post #1037 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 05:23 PM
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Oh, so I just watch HDR10, thanks!
HDR10+ on HDR10 display is just HDR10. Mark is right.

If you use LLDV method, you are watching DV content from LLDV source on a HDR10 display.
Results is a simili HDR10+, this method allow your display to get dynamic DV/HDR content that normally would be rendered by a DV display but since you force player to render it by using LLDV mode, your display does not have to render it, the content itself is already dynamic straight at the source output.
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post #1038 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 09:27 PM
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Hi all,

Last night I tested LLDV in my system, I wish to share my first impression and seeking your valuable advice.
Sorry, but your post was just too long for me to respond to in total.

Last thing I don't understand, did Vertex2 tell the player to do the calculation of LLDV as per the custom HDR metadate which I inputted?

No, custom HDR metadata is included in the output to your display device. It has no effect on the player sending LLDV. It is the EDID you configured in the Vertex that tells the player that it should output LLDV. The EDID also contains other information that has been discussed in this thread that will affect how the player tone maps the full Dolby Vision content to LLDV.

From the Vertex2 config file you posted, the custom HDR metadata includes a Max Luminance value of 4000. I would try lowering that to 1000 since both the Sony A1 and the LG OLED EDIDs would report nits values of less than 1000 to the player that is generating the LLDV output. I don't know how your display devices utilizes the metadata values but a 4000 nit value might result in too much compression during tone mapping resulting in an overall darker picture than it might be if you used a 1000 nit Max Luminance value.

If you are getting what appears to be too much red, you should try downloading loading Mark's EDID he created and load it to your Vertex. I tried it and it eliminated pretty much all red emphasis compared to using either the A1 LLDV EDID or the LG LLDV EDID, combined with the same settings I use in my projector for HD10.

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Last edited by claw; 03-11-2020 at 09:34 PM.
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post #1039 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Sorry, but your post was just too long for me to respond to in total.

Last thing I don't understand, did Vertex2 tell the player to do the calculation of LLDV as per the custom HDR metadate which I inputted?

No, custom HDR metadata is included in the output to your display device. It has no effect on the player sending LLDV. It is the EDID you configured in the Vertex that tells the player that it should output LLDV. The EDID also contains other information that has been discussed in this thread that will affect how the player tone maps the full Dolby Vision content to LLDV.

From the Vertex2 config file you posted, the custom HDR metadata includes a Max Luminance value of 4000. I would try lowering that to 1000 since both the Sony A1 and the LG OLED EDIDs would report nits values of less than 1000 to the player that is generating the LLDV output. I don't know how your display devices utilizes the metadata values but a 4000 nit value might result in too much compression during tone mapping resulting in an overall darker picture than it might be if you used a 1000 nit Max Luminance value.

If you are getting what appears to be too much red, you should try downloading loading Mark's EDID he created and load it to your Vertex. I tried it and it eliminated pretty much all red emphasis compared to using either the A1 LLDV EDID or the LG LLDV EDID, combined with the same settings I use in my projector for HD10.
Thank you very much claw!

It is too much techno terms to me on EDID, custom HDR, LLDV, Tone Mapping.
EDID as I know it using in the device telling other what it's spec and what it's able to do. But I really want to understand how does it work.

The image will brighter or dimmer as because changing the value in custom HDR / DV, so the changing is come from the player, vertex2 or projector?

My projector only output 48 nits in white peak but the lowest value is 100.
According to my test last night, insert 1000 value in Max Luminance in DV page, the image will brighter than 350 nits. On the other hand, if I have calibration tools should I insert the RGB Primary xy value as same as my calibration result?

The New firmware, I can input the value into HDR custom page and create it, but when I chick "send HDR" button, it takes no effect and then I refresh the page, it remains at old value (i.e. 4000 nit). But if I change the value DV page, it will take effect immediately but it will gone again if I stop the moive.

Sorry for many question.

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post #1040 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
You can get HLG from some YouTube content, but that depends upon whether the player you use supports HLG as well.

Directv 4K uses HLG for its 4K HDR channels.

BBC iPlayer outputs HLG.

Thats all of the sources I know; there could be more.





Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV", that is sending HDR and not LLDV to the display, correct?



No, you are still sending LLDV content but with HDR10 metadata included. The HDfury device does not touch the actual LLDV content that it receives; it just adds the HDR10 metadata layer that assists some display devices in treating the LLDV as if it is HDR10 since they don't support Dolby Vision.


I have a original vertex, can I apply LLDV also?


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post #1041 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chhanthony View Post
Thank you very much claw!

It is too much techno terms to me on EDID, custom HDR, LLDV, Tone Mapping.
EDID as I know it using in the device telling other what it's spec and what it's able to do. But I really want to understand how does it work.

The image will brighter or dimmer as because changing the value in custom HDR / DV, so the changing is come from the player, vertex2 or projector?

My projector only output 48 nits in white peak but the lowest value is 100.
According to my test last night, insert 1000 value in Max Luminance in DV page, the image will brighter than 350 nits. On the other hand, if I have calibration tools should I insert the RGB Primary xy value as same as my calibration result?

The New firmware, I can input the value into HDR custom page and create it, but when I chick "send HDR" button, it takes no effect and then I refresh the page, it remains at old value (i.e. 4000 nit). But if I change the value DV page, it will take effect immediately but it will gone again if I stop the moive.

Sorry for many question.
See my post in the Vertex 2 thread. The firmware update has not been released for the Diva so I can't test the new DV block fields.
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Last edited by claw; 03-11-2020 at 11:01 PM.
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post #1042 of 2220 Old 03-11-2020, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
I have a original vertex, can I apply LLDV also?
Yes. Start off by using custom EDID 5 - Sony A1 LLDV in the Vertex and play some Dolby Vision content from a player connected to the Vertex.

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post #1043 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 01:09 AM
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Hi, I have the JVC x7900 and just done the update for the vertex 2. Anyone else with this projector can you tell me what figures your are inputting on the new DV tab page. Thanks
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post #1044 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transistorious View Post
Check this link.
Your link takes you to a page from October. The DV block enhancements were added to the Vertex2 this week. There is nothing on that page regarding the DV block.

Also it is against forum rules to post links to other forums.

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post #1045 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post

Also it is against forum rules to post links to other forums.
I didn't know that, i did that too, will edit my post where i did it. thanx.

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post #1046 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
All thanks goes to Manni for creating it quite some time ago. At the time he wasn't certain how good it might or might not be.
i had it fined tuned pretty good before but this curve blows it away.. It really is like looking at a giant 4k tv
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post #1047 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Your link takes you to a page from October. The DV block enhancements were added to the Vertex2 this week. There is nothing on that page regarding the DV block.

Also it is against forum rules to post links to other forums.
SIR, I did not know. IT was an honest mistake. Don't worry I will NOT post on this thread anymore.

Thank you

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post #1048 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I didn't know that, i did that too, will edit my post where i did it. thanx.
I posted my guide here as well as the other place, if you want to use that link.
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post #1049 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 02:50 PM
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So what is the concensus here with the new firmware. Is it correct to use DCI P3 primaries with standard BT2020 calibration like in the vollans guide? Or should we choose BT2020 primaries?

Isn't it the Sony A1 edids almost DCI P3 primaries that caused the red push?

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post #1050 of 2220 Old 03-12-2020, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Or should we choose BT2020 primaries?
No, you shouldn't. Your display cannot display BT2020. No domestic display can. There is absolutely no point telling your devices to map the image to BT2020 primaries when you can't see them, and the media is all to DCI-P3 colourspace max.
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